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Behringer's K-2 (MS-20 clone) surfacing
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1261
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic_ View Post
Good to know!

We need a firmware fix ASAP.
I suspect it’s some kind of buffer overflow issue in the digital part.

Can anyone else confirm this?
I plan to make a video demo for proof but it will take a while.

Symptoms: MIDI notes coming from the DIN midi port get laggy/stuck after some time of operation. Sometimes 15 min, sometimes 1 hour.
It’s worse when there is midi clock but it also happens when there are only note on/off commands.
Fix (for a while): Restart the machine by turning power off/on.

It doesn’t seem to happen with USB MIDI and also not happening with DIN MIDI when a USB cable is plugged in at the same time.
But then there is another issue (as with all Behringer modules and many other USB devices) - possible USB ground noise that creeps into the audio signal. I don’t consider this a bug but it keeps me from using USB instead of DIN MIDI.
i have tapped somebody at MT for you, i expect you will get a response in here soon enough, it is the weekend though so maybe later today who knows

if you have a way to make a vid great, that or very specific steps to create the issue
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1262
Gear Addict
 

As promised, here is a video demonstration of the Behringer K-2 MIDI buffer overflow bug.
In the video it happens to the bottom unit only. But both units are affected (at different times).

Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1263
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic_ View Post
As promised, here is a video demonstration of the Behringer K-2 MIDI buffer overflow bug.
In the video it happens to the bottom unit only. But both units are affected (at different times).

shared it for you

i would advise a ticket too
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1264
Lives for gear
 
hcppp's Avatar
As you have a commonality of the same midi controller,
can you re-confirm with a different brand controller to
see that the problem persists.



Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic_ View Post
As promised, here is a video demonstration of the Behringer K-2 MIDI buffer overflow bug.
In the video it happens to the bottom unit only. But both units are affected (at different times).

Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1265
Gear Nut
 
Gloompegs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcppp View Post
As you have a commonality of the same midi controller,
can you re-confirm with a different brand controller to
see that the problem persists.
I've had same issue with a CMS Xkey37.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1266
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcppp View Post
As you have a commonality of the same midi controller,
can you re-confirm with a different brand controller to
see that the problem persists.
Yes, I tried 3 different controllers, Elektron Analog Keys (with and without clock send), Dominion 1, Keystep.

And 3 different MIDI cables as well.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1267
Lives for gear
 
hcppp's Avatar
OK, so a K2 issue.
I know some of my modules don't like certain controllers.

I'd be interested if my MS-20kit has the same issue but I have yet to hook up DIN midi to it. (recently)



QUOTE=Gloompegs;15124202]I've had same issue with a CMS Xkey37.[/QUOTE]
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1268
Deleted 4057315
Guest
Is this normal behavior if the synth has a latency >= 8 ms when connected via midi directly from the midi-keyboard?
(>= 12 ms via usb).

Does the original MS-20 have such a latency?

UPD: I mean the latency in relation to keystrokes.

UPD 2: Trolling of non-English speaking people seems to be common here.
Well, I'll have to delete my account

Last edited by Deleted 4057315; 1 week ago at 03:13 PM.. Reason: bad english
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1269
Lives for gear
 
AceNoir's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_V View Post
Is this normal behavior if the synth has a latency >= 8 ms when connected via midi directly from the midi-keyboard?
(>= 12 ms via usb).

Does the original MS-20 have such a latency?
The original MS-20 had no midi or usb latency.
The original MS-20 had no midi or usb
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1270
Deleted 4057315
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNoir View Post
The original MS-20 had no midi or usb latency.
The original MS-20 had no midi or usb
I'm sorry for my poor english.
Of course I've meant the latency in relation to keystrokes.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1271
Lives for gear
 
hcppp's Avatar
Do you mean the time that your finger, from pressing the key
all the way down triggers the sound? And if so, what would
you use to measure such an analogue event.

I know their is a delay from the time my finger touches the top of the key
to the time the key is totally down, but I would need some special equipment
to measure "keypress" time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_V View Post
I'm sorry for my poor english.
Of course I've meant the latency in relation to keystrokes.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1272
Lives for gear
 
AceNoir's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_V View Post
I'm sorry for my poor english.
Of course I've meant the latency in relation to keystrokes.
I don't think anyone has ever asked that question as it's a hard wired circuit with no way of changing it.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1273
Deleted 4057315
Guest
I meant the period of time after pressing a key and the appearance of a sound.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1274
Lives for gear
 
hcppp's Avatar
This analogue variable depends on
a)the speed at which the player presses the key
b)the player is another variable
c)As the K-2 is a module, each keybed and manufacturer would make a difference
d) If I used a fully weighted keybed the speed would be most likely different
to using the keybed on the MS-20Kit, or a Waldorf Blofeld keybed, or
an Arturia Microbrute. (Which I can use as a Midi controller with Kenton USB2MIDI hub)

As an MS-20Kit player, my speed can vary finger to finger, hand to hand
and i would need a high-speed camera to make a database

TLDR: the answer varies by person, keybed, brand, playing style



Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4057315 View Post
I meant the period of time after pressing a key and the appearance of a sound.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1275
Gear Nut
 
varntvar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcppp View Post
Do you mean the time that your finger, from pressing the key
all the way down triggers the sound? And if so, what would
you use to measure such an analogue event.

I know their is a delay from the time my finger touches the top of the key
to the time the key is totally down, but I would need some special equipment
to measure "keypress" time.
I think he just means note on to to actual gate opening which on an original MS-20 would be essentially zero as it's keyboard uses direct voltage output.

Digitally scanning keybeds (any poly from the early 80s onward and any mono with last note priority or note priority options) can add a few milliseconds and MIDI can obviously add more depending on the devices used and their implementation.

You could definitely measure any latency between the keyboard circuit sending note on and the synth's gate responding, either by measuring the MIDI output or CV gate output from the keyboard.
Old 1 week ago
  #1276
vlz
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vlz's Avatar
The latency may be caused by the MIDI controller. You might need to check where it is.

Also MIDI DIN runs at a given speed, but that should be enough for sub-ms latency.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #1277
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic_ View Post
As promised, here is a video demonstration of the Behringer K-2 MIDI buffer overflow bug.
In the video it happens to the bottom unit only. But both units are affected (at different times).

I issued a ticket with Behringer support and got some additional questions (controller firmware versions, etc. ).
Support said they have to move it up to the developers team.
I will report back if there are news.
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