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What are these chord progressions? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 5th April 2019
  #1
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What are these chord progressions?

Hi! I have a simple question. Can somebody help me to figure out what chord progressions are being used in these tracks. I'm trying to find out which chord progressions I like the most.

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube
Old 6th April 2019
  #2
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

These are simple and you should try to work them out yourself.

First one hardly changes at all. It’s F min, 7 to begin with, with a riff on Ab Ionian. While that riff remains constant it shifts to Fm 9 (which is like playing an Eb triad on top of an F bass. This create a dissonance between the 9 (G) and the Ab in the Ionian pedalpoint riff.

2nd one: it’s in Cm, with an Eb pedalpoint which clashes with various chordal notes in the progression:
Fm; Eb/G add D (or Gm + Eb); Cm 7, Bb (with Eb pedalpoint); Fm; Eb/G add D; Ab; Bb

Third one: in Ebm with an Eb pedalpoint.
There is an amusing lack of chord progression up until about 1.30, at which time it goes B; Db; Ebmin; Abm; Bbm; B; Db; Ebm
Old 6th April 2019
  #3
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El-Burrito's Avatar
”Ebm with an Eb pedalpoint.”

What is: with an pedalpoint?
Old 6th April 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
These are simple and you should try to work them out yourself.

First one hardly changes at all. It’s F min, 7 to begin with, with a riff on Ab Ionian. While that riff remains constant it shifts to Fm 9 (which is like playing an Eb triad on top of an F bass. This create a dissonance between the 9 (G) and the Ab in the Ionian pedalpoint riff.

2nd one: it’s in Cm, with an Eb pedalpoint which clashes with various chordal notes in the progression:
Fm; Eb/G add D (or Gm + Eb); Cm 7, Bb (with Eb pedalpoint); Fm; Eb/G add D; Ab; Bb

Third one: in Ebm with an Eb pedalpoint.
There is an amusing lack of chord progression up until about 1.30, at which time it goes B; Db; Ebmin; Abm; Bbm; B; Db; Ebm
I love you man! Thanks a lot! Give this man a cookie! Now I'm just going to open up the Chord Pad feature in Cubase and try to figure out the intervals, so I can translate it to other keys as well.

Have a great weekend!

Beatport:

1. Sunlight Project - Dance Like Nobody's Watching. Key: F min

2. Richard Bass - Armonica. Key: Eb Maj

3. Yowel Lewis Ft. Sivan - Caesarea. Key: Eb min
Old 6th April 2019
  #5
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
”Ebm with an Eb pedalpoint.”

What is: with an pedalpoint?
It’s a very old term dating back to pipe organs, where a tone would be held on the pedal while chords change in the other manuals. It went over to composing (mostly via Bach) as a term for when any tone is held as the harmony changes. It’s often a common tone in successive chords, but not necessarily, and it can be a great way to methodically involve some striking dissonance. In contemporary pop, a pedalpoint on the tonic is quite often used to cause a clash between the 3rd of chord 5 and the tonic.

Something similar happens in the first example here, where a pedalpoint in the Ab Ionian riff clashes with G, the third of Eb mag, which is a triad embedded in Fm 11 (I called it m9 above but it’s more accurately a m11).

Nb, as far as I know pop and jazz players infrequently use this term (though I have heard it referred to in jazz). I use it because I don’t think there is a term for it in pop, even though it’s a common technique.
Old 6th April 2019
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
It’s a very old term dating back to pipe organs, where a tone would be held on the pedal while chords change in the other manuals. It went over to composing (mostly via Bach) as a term for when any tone is held as the harmony changes. It’s often a common tone in successive chords, but not necessarily, and it can be a great way to methodically involve some striking dissonance. In contemporary pop, a pedalpoint on the tonic is quite often used to cause a clash between the 3rd of chord 5 and the tonic.

Something similar happens in the first example here, where a pedalpoint in the Ab Ionian riff clashes with G, the third of Eb mag, which is a triad embedded in Fm 11 (I called it m9 above but it’s more accurately a m11).

Nb, as far as I know pop and jazz players infrequently use this term (though I have heard it referred to in jazz). I use it because I don’t think there is a term for it in pop, even though it’s a common technique.
I'm going to try using pedal points in my music and hear how it sounds. I'm excited about that. I don't know how you're able to be so accurate. You must have played a lot of piano over the years.
Old 6th April 2019
  #7
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So what we've discovered here is that pedal points seem to be used a lot in progressive house/trance music for some reason. Interesting!
Old 6th April 2019
  #8
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
I don't know how you're able to be so accurate.
I’ve been composing/arranging professionally for about 15 years, and studying before that. Currently I also teach aural and written musicianship at university.
Old 6th April 2019
  #9
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
for some reason.
Because it sounds good
Old 6th April 2019
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
These are simple and you should try to work them out yourself.

First one hardly changes at all. It’s F min, 7 to begin with, with a riff on Ab Ionian. While that riff remains constant it shifts to Fm 9 (which is like playing an Eb triad on top of an F bass. This create a dissonance between the 9 (G) and the Ab in the Ionian pedalpoint riff.

2nd one: it’s in Cm, with an Eb pedalpoint which clashes with various chordal notes in the progression:
Fm; Eb/G add D (or Gm + Eb); Cm 7, Bb (with Eb pedalpoint); Fm; Eb/G add D; Ab; Bb

Third one: in Ebm with an Eb pedalpoint.
There is an amusing lack of chord progression up until about 1.30, at which time it goes B; Db; Ebmin; Abm; Bbm; B; Db; Ebm
I have a couple of questions.

1. Do you see the logic behind creating a riff in Ab Ionian, when the key is F min?

2. So when it comes to pedal points, do you have any tips? Should I just play the root note all the time, or should I sustain/repeat any other notes other than the root note? Edit: Example nr. 2 sustains the Eb (the third scale degree) even though the key is C min according to you.
Old 6th April 2019
  #11
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
This thread makes me happy
Old 6th April 2019
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
This thread makes me happy
Me too! It has opened my eyes to new great sounding progressions, compared to my old sh!tty progressions. That was one of my biggest mistakes, I made weak chord progressions that weren't even popular, because I didn't know any better.
Old 6th April 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
I have a couple of questions.

1. Do you see the logic behind creating a riff in Ab Ionian, when the key is F min?

2. So when it comes to pedal points, do you have any tips? Should I just play the root note all the time, or should I sustain/repeat any other notes other than the root note? Edit: Example nr. 2 sustains the Eb (the third scale degree) even though the key is C min according to you.
1. Of course. Fmin is the relative minor of Ab major.

Let’s stop right there. Asking for this info is one thing, but you need to put it into practice. It sounds like you are pretty new to theory, so you don’t want to dive in too deep until you learn the major scale and it’s modes. Learning the major scale is not just playing the scale. It is learning every chord in it. Start with triads, and start with this song.

It’s in Fmin, which is also Ab major - why? You need to hear this to understand it. So start by knowing the scale - Ab - Bb - C - Db - Eb - F - G

Next - you need to know your triads in the scale. No matter what the key of the song is, the major scale chord patterns are the same - Major - Minor - Minor - Major - Dominant - Minor - Diminished.

So what does that mean for Ab? You need to learn these triads - Ab major, Bb minor, C Minor, Db 7 major, Eb 7 (known as dominant), F minor, G, diminished.

It’s not that bad. A triad is 3 notes. Thats it. So focus on that. Go look up the notes in each triad i just listed and learn them.

Now for the fun - Fire up your synth and program an Fmin chord drone. Let it loop. Play each triad over that Fmin. Change the drone to Abmaj. Listen to that. Do this every day until you know these triads inside and out and can connect them in interesting ways.

Now fire up the song you listed and jam over that using these triads.

You will be teaching your ears harmony. There is no shortcut for this. Once you get this down, your ears will hear these chords so much better. You will need to do this in all keys, but it will make you a better producer. Thats just stage one. It gets better and deeper, but if you try and fast forward before understanding what I just posted, you will never really progress.

It will also answer question 2. Asking a guy what notes to pedal is super lazy. Time to fix that.
Old 6th April 2019
  #14
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Blackdog128's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
1. Do you see the logic behind creating a riff in Ab Ionian, when the key is F min?
...
I was curious about this as well. I couldn't load the clip into my YouTube, it just made the spinning graphic, so I haven't actually heard the Ab riff.

But Ab Ionian and F Aolian ("F natural minor") are two modes of the same scale (collection of seven notes with distinct letter names). Both have the same key signature (four flats). So in a way, it's a "distinction without a difference" whether the riff is in Ab or Fm. It's really a matter of context (does one note sound more like "home" than the other?). As I said, I haven't heard the clip, but my guess would be that a riff "in Ab" over an F pedalpoint is very likely to sound like it's in F minor. The two keys are closely related (Ab is the "relative major" of Fm). There are no far out dissonances between them.

In jazz it's not uncommon to see "F pedal" or even "F ped." on a chart.

Good luck exploring chord progressions - it's really a lot of fun!

(geez, while I was fixing my post @ Methlab answered *both* your questions!)

Last edited by Blackdog128; 6th April 2019 at 07:11 PM.. Reason: Autocorrect run wild
Old 6th April 2019
  #15
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markodarko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
I also teach aural
Well there’s no wonder you’re popular!
Old 6th April 2019
  #16
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
Me too! It has opened my eyes to new great sounding progressions, compared to my old sh!tty progressions. That was one of my biggest mistakes, I made weak chord progressions that weren't even popular, because I didn't know any better.
I have a similar thread in the “songwriting” section of gearslutz. Please pop by and you might get some other cool harmonic ideas
Old 6th April 2019
  #17
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mutilatedlip's Avatar
There are plenty of great plug ins that you can use instead of faffing around with real chords.
Old 7th April 2019
  #18
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog128 View Post
but my guess would be that a riff "in Ab" over an F pedalpoint is very likely to sound like it's in F minor.
Yep, it is definitely in Fm. I singled out the mode of the riff because the riff persists without alteration even as the chords change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog128 View Post
In jazz it's not uncommon to see "F pedal" or even "F ped." on a chart.
. Ok . I’m not a jazz player specifically, I have seen the term used occasionally but didn’t know it was common.
Old 7th April 2019
  #19
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutilatedlip View Post
There are plenty of great plug ins that you can use instead of faffing around with real chords.
Op, this is sarcasm.

I think. I’m not actually sure. . .
Old 7th April 2019
  #20
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
I have a couple of questions.

1. Do you see the logic behind creating a riff in Ab Ionian, when the key is F min?

2. So when it comes to pedal points, do you have any tips? Should I just play the root note all the time, or should I sustain/repeat any other notes other than the root note? Edit: Example nr. 2 sustains the Eb (the third scale degree) even though the key is C min according to you.
The other two people answered your first question well. If you are in F minor, starting a scale on Ab (and only using notes in the key of Fmin) will result in an Ionian scale. So, me using the term Ionian is redundant here, except as a way of illustrating that the riff keeps its identity even as the chords change under it.

2. This is up to your sense of what sounds good. As a sideline, “rules” in music are descriptive, not prescriptive.. They describe what people have tended to do, they don’t prescribe what you should do.

So, a pedalpoint will often be a common tone among the chords, or a related tone. If it is the former, dissonance will be absent, if the latter, there may be some dissonance (likely to be what you’d call diatonic dissonance).

Just say your chords where Am, C, F. The note C is common to all those chords. You could include a chord where the note c serves as colour, like Dm7. C in that case is still common. Or you could get a bit crazy and include a chromatic chord (ie a chord outside of the tonic’s diatonic space) like Ab. C is still common. This, by the way relates to a technique called common tone modulation).

Or, say you choose a pedalpoint which is not common across all the chords. In this case you’re going to get some clashes (which might be desirable). Eg, if you are in C, and you have a C pedalpoint, then it will clash with chord 5, or more specifically, with the note b, which is the middle note in a G major triad.

You may or may not want such dissonance. The one I outlined immediately above is pretty common in pop music, and is often resolved by moving to chord 6 (Amin) in the example above, where that pedalpoint is again common tone. So you can use a pedalpoint to set up and resolve interesting dissonances, or as a way of binding together a sequence of chords.
Old 7th April 2019
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Op, this is sarcasm.

I think. I’m not actually sure. . .
I saw this post on my break at work and thought, "it's about to go down"
Old 7th April 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
It’s a very old term dating back to pipe organs, where a tone would be held on the pedal while chords change in the other manuals. It went over to composing (mostly via Bach) as a term for when any tone is held as the harmony changes. It’s often a common tone in successive chords, but not necessarily, and it can be a great way to methodically involve some striking dissonance. In contemporary pop, a pedalpoint on the tonic is quite often used to cause a clash between the 3rd of chord 5 and the tonic.

Something similar happens in the first example here, where a pedalpoint in the Ab Ionian riff clashes with G, the third of Eb mag, which is a triad embedded in Fm 11 (I called it m9 above but it’s more accurately a m11).

Nb, as far as I know pop and jazz players infrequently use this term (though I have heard it referred to in jazz). I use it because I don’t think there is a term for it in pop, even though it’s a common technique.
If I'm understanding correctly in guitar land I've heard this referred to as a pedal note. Usually an open string that drones along with the chord progression. It's common enough in rock, but I know **** all about theory.

Anyway thanks for the explanation as I love knowing the etymology.
Old 7th April 2019
  #23
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trick fall View Post
If I'm understanding correctly in guitar land I've heard this referred to as a pedal note. Usually an open string that drones along with the chord progression. It's common enough in rock, but I know **** all about theory.

Anyway thanks for the explanation as I love knowing the etymology.
It probably is used in pop. The reason I said it's not common is because sometimes I use classical terms and forget that they are often foreign to pop players. I haven't heard it used much in pop contexts, so I assume it's just another one of those situations where I discover that I was being a classical nerd without realising it .
Old 7th April 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proverbs View Post
I saw this post on my break at work and thought, "it's about to go down"


It is true that for the 'non expert' something like Scaler can help to experiment/learn/find chords and progressions.
Old 7th April 2019
  #25
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mutilatedlip's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Op, this is sarcasm.

I think. I’m not actually sure. . .
You may remember me from other great threads such as 'name some chord generating software and...'

I thought this thread was someone trolling as a result of that other comedy thread.
Old 7th April 2019
  #26
WDM
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WDM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutilatedlip View Post
There are plenty of great plug ins that you can use instead of faffing around with real chords.
Of course it's plenty of plugins...

It's like you're sitting at exam, you need to pass the test to get your grades...

- You have your assignment...

- You remember that everybody talked about it in class, it's not that hard but you just can't keep it in your head...

- you see everyone around you working at their assignments and somehow they are moving forward but you can't....

- you're scared of failure... and nervous and that doesn't help either ...

- suddenly... someone from behind offers you all steps written to complete your assignment...

- you're relieved... you look at the steps and it seems easy... but the darn thing still doesn't fit in your head... if only you can have more time to learn....

- well... heck with that.. because right now, you need to pass the exam and that is good enough... no one even noticed that someone completed that task for you ... phew...

and you feel like all other students who also passed the exam because... well... that's what matters at the end
Old 7th April 2019
  #27
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
1. Of course. Fmin is the relative minor of Ab major.

Let’s stop right there. Asking for this info is one thing, but you need to put it into practice. It sounds like you are pretty new to theory, so you don’t want to dive in too deep until you learn the major scale and it’s modes. Learning the major scale is not just playing the scale. It is learning every chord in it. Start with triads, and start with this song.

It’s in Fmin, which is also Ab major - why? You need to hear this to understand it. So start by knowing the scale - Ab - Bb - C - Db - Eb - F - G

Next - you need to know your triads in the scale. No matter what the key of the song is, the major scale chord patterns are the same - Major - Minor - Minor - Major - Dominant - Minor - Diminished.

So what does that mean for Ab? You need to learn these triads - Ab major, Bb minor, C Minor, Db 7 major, Eb 7 (known as dominant), F minor, G, diminished.

It’s not that bad. A triad is 3 notes. Thats it. So focus on that. Go look up the notes in each triad i just listed and learn them.

Now for the fun - Fire up your synth and program an Fmin chord drone. Let it loop. Play each triad over that Fmin. Change the drone to Abmaj. Listen to that. Do this every day until you know these triads inside and out and can connect them in interesting ways.

Now fire up the song you listed and jam over that using these triads.

You will be teaching your ears harmony. There is no shortcut for this. Once you get this down, your ears will hear these chords so much better. You will need to do this in all keys, but it will make you a better producer. Thats just stage one. It gets better and deeper, but if you try and fast forward before understanding what I just posted, you will never really progress.

It will also answer question 2. Asking a guy what notes to pedal is super lazy. Time to fix that.
I did watch a video about relative keys long ago, but the knowledge went straight to my short term memory. So I watched a video on Youtube about relative keys yesterday after you posted your comment. So, when you're in a major key, find the 6th scale degree, and there's the relative minor key. And when you're in a minor key, find the 3rd scale degree, and there's the relative major key. I practised playing through the scales today. I tried memorizing the scales without playing them earlier, but again, most of it went straight to my short term memory. I could only remember some of them, like:

D major = has an F and a C sharp in it, FC as in football club.
F minor = has Ba Ab Db Eb in it. Like "bade", which means to take a bath in
Norwegian lol!
F# minor = B A D E. Sharpen the rest.
A minor/C major
C minor = Ba Ab Eb (bae), kind of like relaxing with your "bae" lol!
C# minor = B A E. Sharpen the rest.
G minor = Ba Eb. As in "be" which means to pray in Norwegian. G for God.
G# minor = B E. Sharpen the rest.
D minor = Bb as in Barcelona. I just remember that D major has FC as in FC Barcelona. So that's how I remember that.
Ab Major = same as F minor.

I do know how to construct all of the chords. It's just that I don't remember any of the chords in any of the scales.

Major triad - Root - 4 - 3 (semitones)
Minor triad - Root - 3 - 4
Diminished - Root - 3 - 3
Dominant - Root - 4 - 3 - 3
Major 7th - Root - 4 - 3 - 4
Minor 7th - Root - 3 - 4 - 3
Augmented: Just sharpen the 5th.
Sus 2: notes 1,2,5
Sus 4: notes 1,4,5
Add 6: notes 1,3,5,6
Ok, I'm bored now.

Let's see if I remember the formula.

Major : whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half
Minor: whole-half-whole-whole-half-whole-whole

I'll try the rest of the things you suggested as well. I don't really know where to find "drones" presets in Sylenth1 or Spire etc. though. I'll definitely try jamming to my favorite songs. That's the only way I'll truly be able to learn I think.
Old 7th April 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerGunnar View Post
I did watch a video about relative keys long ago, but the knowledge went straight to my short term memory. So I watched a video on Youtube about relative keys yesterday after you posted your comment. So, when you're in a major key, find the 6th scale degree, and there's the relative minor key. And when you're in a minor key, find the 3rd scale degree, and there's the relative major key. I practised playing through the scales today. I tried memorizing the scales without playing them earlier, but again, most of it went straight to my short term memory. I could only remember some of them, like:

D major = has an F and a C sharp in it, FC as in football club.
F minor = has Ba Ab Db Eb in it. Like "bade", which means to take a bath in
Norwegian lol!
F# minor = B A D E. Sharpen the rest.
A minor/C major
C minor = Ba Ab Eb (bae), kind of like relaxing with your "bae" lol!
C# minor = B A E. Sharpen the rest.
G minor = Ba Eb. As in "be" which means to pray in Norwegian. G for God.
G# minor = B E. Sharpen the rest.
D minor = Bb as in Barcelona. I just remember that D major has FC as in FC Barcelona. So that's how I remember that.
Ab Major = same as F minor.

I do know how to construct all of the chords. It's just that I don't remember any of the chords in any of the scales.

Major triad - Root - 4 - 3 (semitones)
Minor triad - Root - 3 - 4
Diminished - Root - 3 - 3
Dominant - Root - 4 - 3 - 3
Major 7th - Root - 4 - 3 - 4
Minor 7th - Root - 3 - 4 - 3
Augmented: Just sharpen the 5th.
Sus 2: notes 1,2,5
Sus 4: notes 1,4,5
Add 6: notes 1,3,5,6
Ok, I'm bored now.

Let's see if I remember the formula.

Major : whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half
Minor: whole-half-whole-whole-half-whole-whole

I'll try the rest of the things you suggested as well. I don't really know where to find "drones" presets in Sylenth1 or Spire etc. though. I'll definitely try jamming to my favorite songs. That's the only way I'll truly be able to learn I think.
A preset is not needed. You go into your piano roll and draw in the chord. Then lengthen each note for 4 bars or so, select a basic pad sound and loop it. This is basic stuff that you need to learn anyway
Old 7th April 2019
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
Of course it's plenty of plugins...

It's like you're sitting at exam, you need to pass the test to get your grades...

- You have your assignment...

- You remember that everybody talked about it in class, it's not that hard but you just can't keep it in your head...

- you see everyone around you working at their assignments and somehow they are moving forward but you can't....

- you're scared of failure... and nervous and that doesn't help either ...

- suddenly... someone from behind offers you all steps written to complete your assignment...

- you're relieved... you look at the steps and it seems easy... but the darn thing still doesn't fit in your head... if only you can have more time to learn....

- well... heck with that.. because right now, you need to pass the exam and that is good enough... no one even noticed that someone completed that task for you ... phew...

and you feel like all other students who also passed the exam because... well... that's what matters at the end
I just use "chord pads" inside Cubase. And the chord track feature as well. Quite honestly though I don't think I have to struggle too much as I'm just going to be producing my own music, so I don't really have to focus on anything else other than the scales in my tracks. After noodling around on the keyboard for a few minutes, I'm able to nail the scale and the chords in that scale I'm working in etc. I can just record everything in steps anyway. However, I don't really have to think at all, as Cubase makes sure I play everything in the right key anyway.
Old 7th April 2019
  #30
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
A preset is not needed. You go into your piano roll and draw in the chord. Then lengthen each note for 4 bars or so, select a basic pad sound and loop it. This is basic stuff that you need to learn anyway
I always thought a drone was a low pitched pad sound that had a very specific and eerie sound to it. So any sustained pad sound or string sound etc can be called a drone then. A sustained pad could be used as part of an intro I think.
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