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Is there any reason to own hardware effects in 2019?
Old 4 days ago
  #1261
Lives for gear
There is still a market today for hardware effects (new or used) just like there is a market for ITB plugins (new or used). I have purchased hundreds of plugins - many of which never get used on a session. I have 50 hardware units of which the majority get used all the time (and continue to purchase hardware and plugins) on FX busses (eg Eventide H800FW, H9, Lexicon 224, Bricasti M7, Lexicon PCM 96, Lexicon PCM 41, TC 2290 and Lexicon Super Prime Time) and inserts (analogue comps and EQs) together with the plugins I generally use (which are a dozen staples). The reason I continue to work this way is because I am familiar with my setup and the gear I use, know how to get the results sought, and musicians are happy with the results. If I did not have a use for the outboard gear it would be sold.
Old 4 days ago
  #1262
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by filterfreak View Post
Which company is that?
pssst...I whipser to you silently in your ear...don't tell anyone... maybe it's his own VahallaDSP company?

OTOH tell me a reverb plugin of nailing the exact droppiness and sproinginess of a spring reverb and that you can take you desktop/laptop and raise it a tiny bit from the ground release it, and there's a spring CRASH heard...


That's what I told you. It's the out-of-the-box, not in-the-box sounds I am looking for.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

The best thing with old hardware, compared to - actually not most but all - plugins is that I don't have to re-buy them again, or re-install them again should the recording platform, and DAW OS change. Now listen, why should I have to reinstall or BUY new versions now that they don't support Win XP or Win7 anymore? It's NOT only about the sound. And the most upgrades for all software is that they are catering and to be malleable to 64 bit systems, and things, like operating system (never any for CPU speed) that I have to upgrade and buy AGAIN too. Such things are often neglected. The unwieldyness, cumbersome in maintenance that the software will "play along everything else" is still achilles heel out there.

And by the time I got everything right, everything is up and running at 64 bit, and all idiosyncrasises of bit, sample rate, operating system, thunderbolt, usb3, firewire sound interface (with their drivers) has been finally settled after a year or two, then new OS or CPU architecture comes along, and then you have to start all over again. Beats me.
Old 4 days ago
  #1263
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honch View Post
tell me a reverb plugin of nailing the exact droppiness and sproinginess of a spring reverb and that you can take you desktop/laptop and raise it a tiny bit from the ground release it, and there's a spring CRASH heard...


That's what I told you. It's the out-of-the-box, not in-the-box sounds I am looking for.
the GSi spring reverb could do this over ten years ago, there’s a few others now that do it as well.

Quote:
why should I have to reinstall or BUY new versions now that they don't support Win XP or Win7 anymore? It's NOT only about the sound. And the most upgrades for all software is that they are catering and to be malleable to 64 bit systems, and things, like operating system (never any for CPU speed) that I have to upgrade and buy AGAIN too. Such things are often neglected. The unwieldyness, cumbersome in maintenance that the software will "play along everything else" is still achilles heel out there.
are you making this up as you go, or what? this is nonsense.

Quote:
And by the time I got everything right, everything is up and running at 64 bit, and all idiosyncrasises of bit, sample rate, operating system, thunderbolt, usb3, firewire sound interface (with their drivers) has been finally settled after a year or two, then new OS or CPU architecture comes along, and then you have to start all over again. Beats me.
uhh... maybe don’t buy a Mac? ten years now i’ve been using VSTs and everything still works just as it did then, apart from 32-bit plugins obviously (which work just fine under 64-bit using ‘Jbridge’).
Old 4 days ago
  #1264
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
uhh... maybe don’t buy a Mac? ten years now i’ve been using VSTs and everything still works just as it did then, apart from 32-bit plugins obviously (which work just fine under 64-bit using ‘Jbridge’).
Oh my god! I’m so sick of Urs Heckman sending out free updates for Zebra 2! What a jerk! I paid him $149 in 2008 and he’s got the nerve to keep adding features and improvements and not once asking for an extra dime. What? Is he a socialist or something!? Don’t even get me started on Diva!



The free software (Circular Labs’ Möbius) that I use to replace a Gibson/Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro (x16) is still working perfectly... I think I started using it around 2005 or so. I use jBridge with no issues. At the time the EDP was selling for about $1200. A quick trip to Reverb shows people having trouble getting rid of them for $500. They’re mono, so I’d need two. That still I puts them in the $1000 range. Oh, and Möbius replicates what having 16 of them (run as 8 stereo pairs) would be like... for free.

Do things become abandoned? Yes. I’m a bit angry that 2 years after I purchased Emulator X3 it stopped working. I’d be more pissed if I’d purchased an E-MU ESI-32 for $1500 and it died on me. As has already been mentioned dozens of times, the cost of software is so low (usually) that when a plugin becomes abandoned you’ve already gotten a ton of value from it. I’m currently dealing with trying to get a hardware keyboard fixed and its been a monumental pain in the ass. This idea that hardware is immortal is a crock of sh!t.
Old 4 days ago
  #1265
Lives for gear
 
stixstudios's Avatar
You can drive hardware into the "red" zone, and it still sounds good (or even better . Amazing!!!

Software plugins don't have that nice distortion sound. That's the way it is, in my view.

Hardware in 2020 is still as valid as in 2019 and way before this time. Hardware gives me a "tone" that I like. It may be a FET transistor overloading etc...

Software algorithms do a good job, but nothing like hardware. Not yet. Maybe in the future it should be so, but not yet.
Old 3 days ago
  #1266
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
uhh... maybe don’t buy a Mac?
Compared to hardware, this would be equivalent to...? what? Don't by an Otari 16 channel tape recorder? Don't buy Harrison mixing board? Are you making things up as you go? There are still several platforms, and most software isn't that platform independent as you think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
ten years now i’ve been using VSTs and everything still works just as it did then, apart from 32-bit plugins obviously (which work just fine under 64-bit using ‘Jbridge’).
Ten years only? Still have my Lexicon PCM-42 it's 20 years. and you still say "apart from 32-bit plugins obviously". Well, that's what I meant. Why should that be excluded? There's that "ANY" reason too. It's nothing I got out of the blue. If there was any BIG reason to just stick to software, this is moot, this thread, it was still about "any" reason. No matter how tiny. I know several people that has given up, just due to this chasing for upgrading, and if there's some beefs, or gnarls, bugs within the software, it will be postponed until next upgrade, or next version, maybe for free, maybe not.

I've changed no hardware out inside the rack unit. Not even crackling pots or increased noise, as they age. All leds working still. Didn't buy it new either.

I am saying it's not only for sound.
Old 3 days ago
  #1267
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
the GSi spring reverb could do this over ten years ago, there’s a few others now that do it as well.
And from their site:

"This plugin is only available as 32 bit for Windows. The Mac version has been retired due to incompatibility with the most modern OSX."

Ahhh, so I bought a Mac and that was a bummer for me?I took the short straw?



If you meant the "don't hit me" button, well, that was exactly just the thing I didn't mean. But now we're taking analog spring which this wasn't about.

- - - - - -

There are numerous things, that - for example - the developers of softare synths has been fighting for and still does today. Lennard of Sylenth had a lot about to say how to cut corners once in an interview, and we're still talking digital only. It was about how much CPU power (any MAC PC) you must coax into recreating a simple sine wave perfectly, it is 100 %. So one have to listen where to cut corners, as the CPU must have other things to do at the same time. His Sylenth synths are still one of the bests, but there's a plethora of obstactles still. A dedicated DSP that just has to take care of those signals are edging those ones out. How much this is of importance is up to the user. I don't mind Sylenth, I use it extensively for bread and butter synth sounds, of the analog flavors.

As I said, I use 99,9 percent software today too, and the differences (because there still are) are so subtle the they are neglible. And I am quite adamant on that you can't detect these small irks, gnarls, if you don't have used the equivalent hardware extensively in the past. Whether it's crucial that you have to use these small differences is purely up to each person. I do have encountered quite a few occasions of software where I SPOTTED the shortcomings with the software as opposed to the hardware. You have to remember that those reverb/delay racks was of an analog/digital hybrid, and not purely digital, or analog.
Old 3 days ago
  #1268
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by stixstudios View Post
You can drive hardware into the "red" zone, and it still sounds good (or even better . Amazing!!!
Software plugins don't have that nice distortion sound. That's the way it is, in my view.
Mind you that the thread was about DIGITAL hardware, not analog, like tube amps ans so on. Digital hardware distortion sounded just as bad.
Old 3 days ago
  #1269
Lives for gear
 
stixstudios's Avatar
I was just saying why I thought hardware was still relevant in 2020. Digital or Analogue. The same as it's always been. That's my point.

The thread is about Hardware (Digital OR Analogue OR Hardware).

What's your point?

Last edited by stixstudios; 3 days ago at 05:57 PM.. Reason: Poor grammar
Old 3 days ago
  #1270
Gear Head
 
Audeath's Avatar
 

I use the tc-electronic m-one XL a lot! Use in optical so basically like a plugin in hardware..really fast I like to work with it.. more processing space for my computer..
Old 3 days ago
  #1271
Lives for gear
 
stixstudios's Avatar
It's fun and still useful. That is my reason for owning Hardware devices.
Old 3 days ago
  #1272
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stixstudios View Post
It's fun and still useful. That is my reason for owning Hardware devices.
Yeah I think the impact on the outcome is pretty negligible at this point, but if you enjoy the process of using hardware then that's all the reason you need.
Old 2 days ago
  #1273
Lives for gear
 
pounce's Avatar
 

I’d answered already but want to reiterate that in my hybrid setup (which is fairly large) the idea of spreading the workload around is relevant. Also, I have lovely outboard gear I like and can’t easily replace in software because of its qualities and quirks. Having hardware reverbs and compressors and such is a great way to split the work and leave your computer power for lots of other tracks, soft synths, and plug ins.
Old 2 days ago
  #1274
Lives for gear
 
JPogo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pounce View Post
I’d answered already but want to reiterate that in my hybrid setup (which is fairly large) the idea of spreading the workload around is relevant. Also, I have lovely outboard gear I like and can’t easily replace in software because of its qualities and quirks. Having hardware reverbs and compressors and such is a great way to split the work and leave your computer power for lots of other tracks, soft synths, and plug ins.
Similarly here ... which made me realize that my answer more-or-less came down to "Because I already have them" -- which isn't much of a reason.

Anyway, I'm already buying my first ITB gear for my birthday. Maybe in a year or two, I'll be in the why-still-hardware camp, but I doubt it: flip a switch, and everything's at hand, which is necessary when you like having several synths available all at once. But maybe my workflow will change? And I'll never look back?

Clearly I have nothing truly helpful to say in any of these threads that ask for advice/opinions, although I do think this particular one is a pretty good question. If I'd started 10 years ago with a PC loaded with softsynths, I wonder if I would ever have bought any hardware?
Old 1 day ago
  #1275
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by stixstudios View Post
I was just saying why I thought hardware was still relevant in 2020. Digital or Analogue. The same as it's always been. That's my point.

The thread is about Hardware (Digital OR Analogue OR Hardware).

What's your point?
In case you're too lazy to back up to page one, and read the very first post, the thread starter,I'll recap it for you here, word for word, letter for letter.

Quote:
The thing is - there's a local shop that has quite a ton of used hardware effects racks - Midiverbs, Lexicons, Digitech stuff, you name it - dirt cheap. And when looking at those shelves filled with such hardware my GAS becomes wallet-threatening. But at the same time since I'm using a computer as a center for everything music related - by now there are simply tons of great sounding plugins doing whatever - and without the latency that would come with bouncing the sound back and forth through converters to an effect rack or pedal.

So is there any reason to own any of those nowadays apart from them looking extremely cool in a rackspace?

And yeah - I'm talking about digital stuff, not analog.
The line in bold please. Please point me out where in the thread it took a turn of change to include analog hardware too. I am very inclined to know. So this thread is very clearly NOT about analog hardware. Please point me to that post that should say it should include analog too.

Which part of the word NOT was that you didn't understand?
Old 1 day ago
  #1276
Lives for gear
 
stixstudios's Avatar
"Hardware" can be Analogue OR Digital. That's all I meant.
OR even Analogue+Digital (often is).

examples:


Analogue Hardware Effects:
Yamaha E1010 Delay (Bucket Brigade Device)
Spring Reverbs (anything with an actual spring)
Binson echorec (Tape Delay)

Digital Hardware Effects:
Lexicon PCM90 (Digital Reverb)
Alesis Midiverb (Digital Muti-effects)
Eventide H3000 (Digital Muti-effects)

And obviously Digital Hardware effects units include an analogue input stage.

The OP said "Hardware Effects" and DID NOT stipulate whether analogue or digital.

There is no issue.

Last edited by stixstudios; 1 day ago at 10:46 AM.. Reason: Clarity.
Old 1 day ago
  #1277
Lives for gear
 
stixstudios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honch View Post
...

And yeah - I'm talking about digital stuff, not analog.

The line in bold please. Please point me out where in the thread it took a turn of change to include analog hardware too. I am very inclined to know. So this thread is very clearly NOT about analog hardware. Please point me to that post that should say it should include analog too.

Which part of the word NOT was that you didn't understand?
Ahaaaaaa!!! Now I see what you are getting at!!! As in, the OP stipulated in post #1 .

If only the OP had included the words "Digital Hardware Effects" in the title, this little faux pas (and many others) could have been avoided.
Old 1 day ago
  #1278
Lives for gear
 
massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stixstudios View Post
Binson echorec (Tape Delay)
The Echorec is not a tape delay
Old 1 day ago
  #1279
Lives for gear
 
stixstudios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
The Echorec is not a tape delay
Right you are . It was some sort of spinning drum.
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