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Why there's so little interest around here in keyboards? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 4 days ago
  #61
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
we call that kind of keyboard you like "romplers" and generally looked down because their sound design capabilities are almost non existent
I have to protest.
Romplers synthesis capabilities are amongst the most extensive in synth land.
Old 4 days ago
  #62
Deleted 859c1b8
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Because:
Freedom of choice.
Old 4 days ago
  #63
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
EP stands for "electric piano" how is that not an electronic instrument?
Electric piano's, along with electric guitars, tonewheel organs and microphones, are actually electroacoustical. They work by amplifying mechanical vibrations.
The only real electronics is the amplifier that amplifies the electrical signal.

Electronic instruments generate the signal itself with the help of electronics.

So the difference is in the notions of 'electric' vs 'electronic'.
Old 4 days ago
  #64
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Much music made with synthesisers has been made either wholly without keyboard input, or using keyboards more of a utility than more specifically as a musical instrument.
Then again, by far the most music made with synths has been made with synths that use a keyboard as input. It makes no sense denying that attaching a keyboard to a synth is what historically made synths usable for musicians.
Old 4 days ago
  #65
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BTByrd's Avatar
It's because most people who use synthesizers can't actually play an instrument. They just draw notes on the piano roll in Fruity Loops.

I guess that's more than what DJs do.

I guess.
Old 4 days ago
  #66
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Sound vs. Music

and triggering/modulating/shaping/performance differences.

Starting a sound or chord through impact of your fingers upon keys,
or through electronic/digital methods such as arpeggiators/sequencers and so on.

Also changing aspects of a sustaining sound or chord through physical input such as wheels, breath/ribbon controllers,
after touch, release velocity and such vs. programmed changes through envelopes/lfo's/asr's/ramps and so on.

What was the question?
Old 4 days ago
  #67
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine View Post
No interest in electronic pianos? organs? stage pianos/keyboards? music workstations? etc
There's interest, I'd say, it's just that for those who have it, the topic doesn't come up all that much. Plus, keyboards are only a subset of how electronic music is made.

There's also a tendency here to mock workstations, organs, etc as cheesy, old-fashioned and more appropriate for cruise ships or weddings--another reason for not bringing them up, I'd say. They're perceived as "uncool".

While this might indeed be a cover for a few who just don't have keyboard skills, I think most are simply more interested in approaching music in a less traditional way--something which has always been appealing about electronic music (even for those who still appreciate and can actually play traditional instruments).
Old 4 days ago
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
There's also a tendency here to mock organs, etc as cheesy, old-fashioned. They're perceived as "uncool".
some organs are just as good as synthesizers, and some organs will take you into otherworldly organic realms if you know the right combination of effects to put them through. ie: farfisa compacts/VIP's through a binson then a reverb, or through a phaser/flanger. for that otherworldly organic sound you just need to check out albums like td's atem/concerts from 1972-1973 and schulze's irrlicht and cyborg.
Old 4 days ago
  #69
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flowthrough's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
There's also a tendency here to mock workstations, organs, etc as cheesy, old-fashioned and more appropriate for cruise ships or weddings--another reason for not bringing them up, I'd say. They're perceived as "uncool".
But when gearslutz do talk about organs, they tend to approach it from a synthesis perspective- & analyzing the ensemble effect in a Wersi EX20 etc... ( we tend to dissect more than 'mock' ~ I hope)

kind of like this> (source: GitHub - ijsf/wersi-re: Wersi MK1/EX20 reverse engineering docs and SysEx tools )

"At first sight, the interface of the MK1 suggests that it is a simple additive synthesizer capable of adding 32 sine harmonics, similar to the registers of an electric organ. However looks can deceive, as the MK1 actually contains an elaborate implementation of digital wavetable synthesis. "

"containing a digitally controlled mono SSM2044 VCF"

so maybe we do speak about these things... (just not in the way other sites would).

also- have a gander at the "gear porn" thread, there are studio pics there where "electro-acoustic keyboards" (aka Electric pianos) are right along side synthesizers- we have multi- instrumentalists here (some of the studio pics are even polluted with ...*gasp*... Guitars! )
Old 4 days ago
  #70
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Electric piano's, along with electric guitars, tonewheel organs and microphones, are actually electroacoustical. They work by amplifying mechanical vibrations.
The only real electronics is the amplifier that amplifies the electrical signal.

Electronic instruments generate the signal itself with the help of electronics.

So the difference is in the notions of 'electric' vs 'electronic'.
You forgot to talk about the pickups used in Electric Pianos, and Tonewheel organs.

When you play an Electric Piano, or a tone wheel organ you are hearing the sound of the pickups not the tone wheel.

For example on an EP when you press a key it causes a metal string to vibrate.

As the string vibrates it causes the electronics in the pick up circuit to oscillate creating an analog oscillator.

This creates an electrical current in an electronic circuit that can be manipulated and eventually amplified.

The very nature of how the electronics are wired in the various pickup circuits, and what materials and processes are uses gives different EPs from various decades and various brands different sounds.

You said "Electronic instruments generate the signal itself with the help of electronics." That is exactly what that pickup circuit is doing

If you don't think an EP or tonewheel organ is an electronic instrument, than you must also think that samplers, romplers, and other digital instruments like drum machines that play back samples are not electronic instruments.

When I play say a piano patch from one of my Roland Romplers, the rompler is not actually generating that sound. It was actually generated on a real piano and was sampled by Eric Pershing

All the Rompler is doing is playing back a sample recorded and produced elsewhere.

If I am playing an MPC loaded up with 808 and 909 samples is the MPC actually generating those 808 and 909 sounds? Or is just playing back sounds generated by something else? As on it's own an MPC can't make those sounds.

Of course I view all of them as electronic instruments. My electric guitar is also an electronic instrument, but based on the iconography used on this forum of a keyboard, this forum is for non guitar based electronic instrumemts
Old 4 days ago
  #71
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
I've got to say this thread has hit the nail on the head. I just got this desktop thing that has so many cool knobs and I'm playing with them right now not quite sure what they do but they are for sure cool rad. I know I need a microphone but I don't know if I should spend $5,000 on it what do you guys think? Also check out my rad mix that I've done entirely using my butt cheeks it's a new method I've learned about here on gearslutz. Although I can't play a lick of piano I sure know how to make them beats rock thanks to my fellow gearslutz. Why do I need organs?


In a way I feel sorry for the non “players.” To me, there is nothing more fulfilling than playing, but I also get why people avoid it. They figured out that they can get the end results they’re after without it and it’s a time consuming and difficult task to get good at the keyboard. (I’m sure not!)

Inversely, I see how a drum-machine-hero would feel like I’m missing out in that world. I love watching and listening to music that’s all done with a bunch of Elektron boxes, and trust me, I’ve tried many times to get into that world. I just don’t like doing it.
Old 4 days ago
  #72
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
some organs are just as good as synthesizers, and some organs will take you into otherworldly organic realms if you know the right combination of effects to put them through.
Totally. I love organs.

(Just don't talk about them much. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowthrough View Post
also- have a gander at the "gear porn" thread, there are studio pics there where "electro-acoustic keyboards" (aka Electric pianos) are right along side synthesizers- we have multi- instrumentalists here (some of the studio pics are even polluted with ...*gasp*... Guitars! )
Oh, I'm sure they're quite a few keyboard players (and guitarists!) here. Still, I think one of the reasons organs, e-pianos etc aren't discussed more is because they're perceived as old-fashioned and "prog rock-y". But the interest is definitely there. For some.
Old 4 days ago
  #73
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
You forgot to talk about the pickups used in Electric Pianos, and Tonewheel organs.

When you play an Electric Piano, or a tone wheel organ you are hearing the sound of the pickups not the tone wheel.

For example on an EP when you press a key it causes a metal string to vibrate.

As the string vibrates it causes the electronics in the pick up circuit to oscillate creating an analog oscillator.

This creates an electrical current in an electronic circuit that can be manipulated and eventually amplified.

The very nature of how the electronics are wired in the various pickup circuits, and what materials and processes are uses gives different EPs from various decades and various brands different sounds.

You said "Electronic instruments generate the signal itself with the help of electronics." That is exactly what that pickup circuit is doing

If you don't think an EP or tonewheel organ is an electronic instrument, than you must also think that samplers, romplers, and other digital instruments like drum machines that play back samples are not electronic instruments.

When I play say a piano patch from one of my Roland Romplers, the rompler is not actually generating that sound. It was actually generated on a real piano and was sampled by Eric Pershing

All the Rompler is doing is playing back a sample recorded and produced elsewhere.

If I am playing an MPC loaded up with 808 and 909 samples is the MPC actually generating those 808 and 909 sounds? Or is just playing back sounds generated by something else? As on it's own an MPC can't make those sounds.

Of course I view all of them as electronic instruments. My electric guitar is also an electronic instrument, but based on the iconography used on this forum of a keyboard, this forum is for non guitar based electronic instrumemts
I think you’re confusing electronic instruments with synthesis. To my thinking, they’re very different. On my guitar, my string is the oscillator. I have to mechanically get it to move before I get anything, well other than noise , out of it. On a synthesizer, the oscillator is made from nothing but electrical circuits or DSP/Code. It’s the difference between singing into a mic and Vocaloid.
Old 4 days ago
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post


In a way I feel sorry for the non “players.” To me, there is nothing more fulfilling than playing, but I also get why people avoid it.
i can play keyboards, but i don't often like doing it. i'd much prefer my sequencers do all the work for me, but there are times you just gotta play, because often the sequencer can't provide that equally human touch and expression.

let's just say sometimes you can enjoy the best of both worlds!
Old 4 days ago
  #75
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by didlisquat View Post
This is the first time I've heard about this new "butt cheek" method. Could someone versed with these skills do a tutorial for us looking for a fresh approach ?
Good for claps. I would post a video but I don't think it would be appropriate.
Old 4 days ago
  #76
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
I've got to say this thread has hit the nail on the head. I just got this desktop thing that has so many cool knobs and I'm playing with them right now not quite sure what they do but they are for sure cool rad. I know I need a microphone but I don't know if I should spend $5,000 on it what do you guys think? Also check out my rad mix that I've done entirely using my butt cheeks it's a new method I've learned about here on gearslutz. Although I can't play a lick of piano I sure know how to make them beats rock thanks to my fellow gearslutz. Why do I need organs?
You forgot to ask the peanut gallery here if you really need to learn how to read music...
Old 4 days ago
  #77
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
As the string vibrates it causes the electronics in the pick up circuit to oscillate creating an analog oscillator.
Well, the thing is that a pickup is not considered electronics.
That is why it is called an electric piano, not an electronic piano, electric guitar, not electronic guitar.
And a pickup doesn't oscillate, it only transduces the oscillations from the string or the bar or the tonewheel.
It doesn't form an oscillator itself.
Old 4 days ago
  #78
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Acidizer's Avatar
had a nord electro and i loved it, even more now in retrospect. it had everything i needed. organ, keys, mallets, strings brass. very very stupid for getting rid of it. now i am using samples within DAW to compensate and there is close to no inspiration at all.

sound design isn't technically there, but manipulating the samples with effects and layering is a kind of sound design and it was a lot of fun and sounding amazing. i suppose the drawbars on the organ part are sound design.

would be perfect if they had more memory on it, that's the only big downer.
Old 4 days ago
  #79
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
You said "Electronic instruments generate the signal itself with the help of electronics." That is exactly what that pickup circuit is doing
Nope. A pickup (it's in the name) picks up an already existing mechanical signal, be it string, tonewheel, whatever.

Quote:
If you don't think an EP or tonewheel organ is an electronic instrument, than you must also think that samplers, romplers, and other digital instruments like drum machines that play back samples are not electronic instruments.
Samplers generate their signal through electronics. Nothing wrong with calling them electronic.
Please read up on why an electric guitar is called an electric guitar and not an electronic guitar. There is a reason for this. Well, i basically explained it but you seem to not beieve it.

Quote:
When I play say a piano patch from one of my Roland Romplers, the rompler is not actually generating that sound. It was actually generated on a real piano and was sampled by Eric Pershing
The source of the sample doesn't matter. It's about how the device produces signals. In a sampler you have electronics that reproduce particular series of voltages.

Quote:
My electric guitar is also an electronic instrument
No, it's not. It's an electric instrument. You can call it electronic, but you'd be wrong about that. It's just not how these things are defined.

Last edited by monomer; 4 days ago at 07:08 PM..
Old 4 days ago
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Why do I need organs?
To keep your body functional so you can keep turning those knobs!
Old 4 days ago
  #81
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
No, it's not. It's an electric instrument. You can call it electronic, but you'd be wrong about that. It's just not how these thigs are defined.
Well, how would you then define a 'thig'?


(Sorry. Couldn't resist. In any case, you're right: electric guitars are electric, not electronic.)
Old 4 days ago
  #82
Organs and electric pianos are not my thing since I would want the originals and I have no space for that. I heard too much of the innovators to settle for less.

I started on piano and prefer weighted keys, so a typical analog keyboard is not going to work for me. The MS20 vs MS20M is an example of why I prefer playing the latter via my own controller.

I have 4 keyboards, the Oasys and One are my digital and analog controllers respectively. The D and TVS are just a pair that goes well together. Pic of my new studio in progress.
Attached Thumbnails
Why there's so little interest around here in keyboards?-img_20190315_063331591.jpg  
Old 4 days ago
  #83
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Nope. A pickup (it's in the name) picks up an already existing mechanical signal, be it string, tonewheel, whatever.
Well if that's true why do different pickups sound different? Why do guitarists spend big money changing out pickups on a guitar to get a different tone? And why are their different types of pickups then?

Why do the different electronics that make up pickups differ in sound?

How do "electric" instruments work exactly without electronics?
Old 4 days ago
  #84
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login's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
I have to protest.
Romplers synthesis capabilities are amongst the most extensive in synth land.
My first post was mostly tongue in cheek, some outrageous claims to stir up the pot aka trolling.
Old 4 days ago
  #85
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login's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic38 View Post
If you are seriously believe that a Motif or a Fantom workstation has sound design capabilities that are almost non-existent then you need to go stand in the corner and rtfm...
Well I wrote romplers not workstations, mostly the stuff you can't edit. Those keyboards aimed at people looking mostly for piano, e- piano, organ and other sounds but who are not interested in sound design.
Old 4 days ago
  #86
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Gearslutz ahhh... One big happy dysfunctional family..
Old 4 days ago
  #87
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no we're not!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Gearslutz ahhh... One big happy dysfunctional family..
lol
Old 4 days ago
  #88
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John01W's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Well if that's true why do different pickups sound different? Why do guitarists spend big money changing out pickups on a guitar to get a different tone? And why are their different types of pickups then?

Why do the different electronics that make up pickups differ in sound?

How do "electric" instruments work exactly without electronics?
The same pickup will sound different in every guitar(even two of the same guitar)...because the acoustic properties sound different in every guitar...there are countless factors that give an electric guitar unique tonal properties. You try to match the tone curve of the pickup to the tone curve that is produced by the acoustic properties of a guitar. Do you think a pickup will sound the same in a strat as it does in a Les Paul? No, it doesn't....as a matter of fact it will sound different between even two of the same instrument. monomer is 100% correct.

Using a microphone doesn't make a singers voice electronic either. The properties of how a microphone translates acoustical vibration and how a magnetic pickup translates a guitar's sound are very different but it's basically a way of making an acoustic instrument louder.

All of this is bs semantics that serves no purpose. You can have skill playing electronic(or electric) instrument as much as any other. Also, I consider sound design/programming to be part of a musician's overall chops.
Old 4 days ago
  #89
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine View Post
Hi all!

I've seen that nearly ALL the topics that raise interest are synths, synths, and more synths. And then, all related: drum machines, softwares, etc

But there's virtually nothing about keyboards

Why?



No interest in electronic pianos? organs? stage pianos/keyboards? music workstations? etc
With a decent synth or two you have all those sounds covered.
Old 4 days ago
  #90
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Some organs are synths. With some of the Yamaha Electone series you can connect to the record out bypassing the built in speaker and it’s nothing but synth tones.
When playing through the internal speaker the speaker cab filters the sound a bit making it sound more like an organ.
Mine even has the same filter chips used in other Yamaha synths of the time.
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