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Moog Voyager Appreciation Thread!
Old 9th February 2020
  #121
vlz
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None of this rigmarole with my Voyager OS. Switch on, let it warm up and it's in tune. If not just turn the knobs until they are.
Old 9th February 2020
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
None of this rigmarole with my Voyager OS. Switch on, let it warm up and it's in tune. If not just turn the knobs until they are.
That's the same as most peoples normal Voyagers. I'm pretty sure if you opened up the oldschool you'd also find trimmers for calibration.
Old 9th February 2020
  #123
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
That's the same as most peoples normal Voyagers. I'm pretty sure if you opened up the oldschool you'd also find trimmers for calibration.
but I never needed to do that since I got it in 2009.
Old 9th February 2020
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
That's the same as most peoples normal Voyagers. I'm pretty sure if you opened up the oldschool you'd also find trimmers for calibration.
You would: it's the same analog board in the oldschool.

It's really only an issue if the scaling goes out so as you play further up the keyboard the worse the tuning becomes; when the oscillators have all drifted a bit in this way it can sound pretty ghastly.
Old 9th February 2020
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaeground View Post
Does anyone else remember the guy that had the videos on YouTube where he was performing DJ type turntablism sounds on the voyager? It was way back when the voyager was still kinda new. I just wanted to check em out again but I can’t find them.
I was thinking about this exact channel a couple of days ago and couldn’t find any of it.

Edit: maybe I’m thinking of someone different but, I was thinking of this guy’s videos -

https://youtu.be/nMMdUyNYbdY

Don’t know how but the exact name just came to me as I pressed send on my original message.

Always regret not getting a voyager OS when they came out, always thought it was amazing whenever I tried one.
Old 9th February 2020
  #126
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroichi View Post
I was thinking about this exact channel a couple of days ago and couldn’t find any of it.

Edit: maybe I’m thinking of someone different but, I was thinking of this guy’s videos -

https://youtu.be/nMMdUyNYbdY

Don’t know how but the exact name just came to me as I pressed send on my original message.

Always regret not getting a voyager OS when they came out, always thought it was amazing whenever I tried one.
It is amazing. Great in all respects.
Old 9th February 2020
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
but I never needed to do that since I got it in 2009.
And...?

I haven’t done it since I got my Voyager 2006. You’ll probably find other people who haven’t done it longer than that. Doesn’t mean Voyager and Voyager Old School are any different in that regard.
Old 9th February 2020
  #128
vlz
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I am just saying that I have not had the rigmarole of having to open and mess with crazy sensitive trimpots as someone described here. For which I am grateful.
Old 9th February 2020
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
I am just saying that I have not had the rigmarole of having to open and mess with crazy sensitive trimpots as someone described here. For which I am grateful.
Ok, you seemed to be saying that old school Voyagers don’t have the same issue.
I am also glad I haven’t had to open mine up, just like 99% of other Voyager owners who hasn’t had any issues.
Old 9th February 2020
  #130
vlz
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The only thing I could say about the
OS vs normal Voyager, and this actually I don't know the answer, is whether the pots are directly connects to the analogue HW or there is some mediation by the microcontroller in. If this is not the case, then they're like for like.
Otherwise there are potential differences from
the calibration perspective.

The thing is that in general the Voyager oscillators are super stable, which is great.
Old 9th February 2020
  #131
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I believe that Voyagers were a hit or miss regarding their tuning problems. My OS had serious problems of tracking at higher octaves and it was really a pain in the a$$ to tune it. The whole procedure needed about 30' and I had to keep the lid half open, only for about 10'' each time I was moving a trim pot, then close it and let it "stabilize" a bit for 30'' and do the same procedure for every VCO trim pot. If the lid was kept open for more than 10'' every time, everything would go out of tune instantly and you would have to close it, wait for 10' and start over again. In some cases, even after careful tuning in controlled room temperature, some of the trim settings would change after 2' and this happened to a unit that was almost new. It was a nightmare.

I'm not happy that I sold it, but I couldn't stand that situation every month. I'm much happier with modern machines and auto-tuning. The sound of my Moog GM might not be as juicy as that of the OS I had, but It's almost instantly stabilized when I switch it on and I never had problems with it.
Old 9th February 2020
  #132
vlz
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Apart from the crazy fact that the CV in did not come calibrated from the factory, I've never had any tuning issues with the OS.

I have only moved it maybe about 5 times in these ten years, so perhaps that has made a difference.
Old 9th February 2020
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
There's one bit missing from that procedure. From the Moog forum:


Without that it'll appear you've got oscillator 3 in tune but it's quite likely to drift again within a couple of days.

Some general comments after having tuned my Voyager multiple times:
  • Parts of the power supply that are live at mains voltage are exposed when you open the rear panel of the synth.
  • Trimmers have very limited lifespans, typically something like 200 cycles, so don't adjust them any more than you absolutely have to.
  • The process is very time consuming. There was a comment on the Moog forum that it takes an experienced engineer about 30 minutes; first time I tried it took me about 3 hours and I began to think I'd never get it right...
  • The comment about the keyboard scaling trimmer being ridiculously sensitive is the absolute truth: turning it enough for the movement to be visible will send everything massively out of tune and it's not easy to get it back again.
  • When you open the rear panel of the synth the change in temperature affects the tuning. So you really need to open it, make some changes, close it back up and wait for the tuning to stabilise before you check it.
  • A stroboscopic tuner, like one of the Korg Pitchblack series, is a big help because they're very accurate.
  • A proper non-conductive trimmer tool is a good idea: I use CK ceramic ones.
It's easy enough to find the trimmers: they're all clearly labelled as in the instructions and are located towards the bottom left of the board.
Thank you Alan - added that to my Word copy.
Old 9th February 2020
  #134
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becks bolero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
And...?

I haven’t done it since I got my Voyager 2006. You’ll probably find other people who haven’t done it longer than that. Doesn’t mean Voyager and Voyager Old School are any different in that regard.
my experience coincides with Mitch: I've owned 3 Voyagers over the years, and have never had to calibrate the OSC's using internal trimpots
Old 9th February 2020
  #135
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CZ Rider's Avatar
 

Naturally the OS would only need a frequency knob tweak of osc 2 or 3 to bring back a slight shift in tuning. Where the standard DCA (digital controlled analog) version would always retain the saved percise value that would require an internal calibration if the oscillator went slightly out. They should have given a way to compensate via a digital offset method. I believe the Moog Source had a way to do this.

Here is a pic of my three voice Voyager. One Performer and two RME. Fourth voice from the larger and older Moog behind it.
Old 9th February 2020
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
There's one bit missing from that procedure. From the Moog forum:


Without that it'll appear you've got oscillator 3 in tune but it's quite likely to drift again within a couple of days.

Some general comments after having tuned my Voyager multiple times:
  • Parts of the power supply that are live at mains voltage are exposed when you open the rear panel of the synth.
  • Trimmers have very limited lifespans, typically something like 200 cycles, so don't adjust them any more than you absolutely have to.
  • The process is very time consuming. There was a comment on the Moog forum that it takes an experienced engineer about 30 minutes; first time I tried it took me about 3 hours and I began to think I'd never get it right...
  • The comment about the keyboard scaling trimmer being ridiculously sensitive is the absolute truth: turning it enough for the movement to be visible will send everything massively out of tune and it's not easy to get it back again.
  • When you open the rear panel of the synth the change in temperature affects the tuning. So you really need to open it, make some changes, close it back up and wait for the tuning to stabilise before you check it.
  • A stroboscopic tuner, like one of the Korg Pitchblack series, is a big help because they're very accurate.
  • A proper non-conductive trimmer tool is a good idea: I use CK ceramic ones.
It's easy enough to find the trimmers: they're all clearly labelled as in the instructions and are located towards the bottom left of the board.
I’ve had to do it once in about 8 years and it has been stable since then. I have a feeling that bumping it (like when it is transported) might knock it out.

Calibrating it took some care and concentration, but it wasn’t too hard. I just used a tuner plugin in my DAW. Other points to add, for others who haven’t yet done it:

* Be mindful that you need it powered up with the back panel off; ie definitely a potential electrocution hazard. Get a technician to do this job if you don’t have experience with electronics, and keep your fingers away from the power supply.

* Somebody should point out that we are talking about calibration, not simple tuning. Of course the instrument is tuned from the front panel (a trivial matter). Calibration is needed if , say a low C is not in tune with a high C, on one or all of the oscillators.
Old 9th February 2020
  #137
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d33psp33d's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
I’ve had to do it once in about 8 years and it has been stable since then. I have a feeling that bumping it (like when it is transported) might knock it out.

Calibrating it took some care and concentration, but it wasn’t too hard. I just used a tuner plugin in my DAW. Other points to add, for others who haven’t yet done it:

* Be mindful that you need it powered up with the back panel off; ie definitely a potential electrocution hazard. Get a technician to do this job if you don’t have experience with electronics, and keep your fingers away from the power supply.

* Somebody should point out that we are talking about calibration, not simple tuning. Of course the instrument is tuned from the front panel (a trivial matter). Calibration is needed if , say a low C is not in tune with a high C, on one or all of the oscillators.
asshole design imo, calibration pots should always be accessible via outside the unit using a simple screwdriver ala sh-09 and countless other analog synths. sucks s1 could potentially electrocute themselves, asinine...
Old 10th February 2020
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becks bolero View Post
hey that link is fantastic!

but the image attachments referenced in the tuning procedure are gone, did anyone save them?
Who's your Daddy?? I saved that entire post with the images!
Attached Thumbnails
Moog Voyager Appreciation Thread!-image001.gif   Moog Voyager Appreciation Thread!-image003.gif   Moog Voyager Appreciation Thread!-image005.gif  
Old 10th February 2020
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobdude View Post
Who's your Daddy?? I saved that entire post with the images!
haha, fantastic!!

Thank You, Daddy-O!!
Old 26th February 2020
  #140
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Hi folks! Great thread! So anyhow, I picked up my voyager a couple months ago. I've since added a vx-351 and Synovatron's VXP1 (vx-351 in eurorack format). Tony (the man behind the module, and complete gentleman) actually whipped up a splitter for the expansion port that allows both to be used simultaneously from the same port. It's awesome! I can add some photos if anyone is interested. On the other hand I'm having an issue with the voyager rebooting arbitrarily for seemingly no good reason. The screen will begin to flicker a little, followed by the audio cutting out and the screen returning to the "MOOG VOYAGER" splash screen you get at start up. Sometimes this will happen once, stabilize and away I go; other times times it will occur repeatedly every 10 seconds or so until I just give up. It's stifling to a creative flow to say the least and It's preventing me from fully enjoying the synth. I'm certain it has nothing to do with the expander modules as it had been occurring before I even acquired them. If anyone has any recommendations for eliminating this "quirk" I'd be extremely grateful. Here's some deets...

-Voyager Performer Edition 2016 build I believe (no blue wheel), running firmware 3.5.

I hope it's ok to post this here. I definitely appreciate this synth, and I'd really appreciate any info or even just to be pointed in the right direction at this point.

Thanks a bunch fellas.
Old 26th February 2020
  #141
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar3000 View Post
Hi folks! Great thread! So anyhow, I picked up my voyager a couple months ago. I've since added a vx-351 and Synovatron's VXP1 (vx-351 in eurorack format). Tony (the man behind the module, and complete gentleman) actually whipped up a splitter for the expansion port that allows both to be used simultaneously from the same port. It's awesome! I can add some photos if anyone is interested. On the other hand I'm having an issue with the voyager rebooting arbitrarily for seemingly no good reason. The screen will begin to flicker a little, followed by the audio cutting out and the screen returning to the "MOOG VOYAGER" splash screen you get at start up. Sometimes this will happen once, stabilize and away I go; other times times it will occur repeatedly every 10 seconds or so until I just give up. It's stifling to a creative flow to say the least and It's preventing me from fully enjoying the synth. I'm certain it has nothing to do with the expander modules as it had been occurring before I even acquired them. If anyone has any recommendations for eliminating this "quirk" I'd be extremely grateful. Here's some deets...

-Voyager Performer Edition 2016 build I believe (no blue wheel), running firmware 3.5.

I hope it's ok to post this here. I definitely appreciate this synth, and I'd really appreciate any info or even just to be pointed in the right direction at this point.

Thanks a bunch fellas.
The bad news is that the problem you describe is likely to get worse until the machine is inoperable.

The good news is, if I’m right in identifying your problem, it’s relatively easy to fix.

I’ve been through this myself. The symptoms you describe sound very much like the main capacitor on your power supply is beginning to fail.

It may be weeks or even several months before it gets a lot worse. But it most certainly will get worse. The problem is that there is a lot of load on that particular component.

I initially solved the problem by replacing that capacitor. You have to match the farads and voltage. This is a trivial job for an electrical repairer if you don’t have experience.

However.... turns out, even matching the specs doesn’t mean all capacitors are equal. I’ve had to replace the same one several times over, because they haven’t had the lifespan of the original.

So... most recently, I’ve simply ordered a whole new power supply. This is an internal board, quite small, separate from the main boards and connected by cables. Fortunately it is an off-the-shelf part, and not a Moog bespoke part. So, you can order it online, for around about 150 us. I can’t recall the name of that part off the top of my head, but the exact model is printed on the bottom of the board, and you can simply google it. I found one on eBay. I suggest doing this sooner rather than later because though they are around, they may be out of production.

Let me know if you have any questions. There is quite a big thread here on gs about the exact problem.

[edit: here is the thread. Moog Voyager: power supply caps leaking or something else? (pics included) ]
Old 26th February 2020
  #142
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
The bad news is that the problem you describe is likely to get worse until the machine is inoperable.

The good news is, if I’m right in identifying your problem, it’s relatively easy to fix.

I’ve been through this myself. The symptoms you describe sound very much like the main capacitor on your power supply is beginning to fail.

It may be weeks or even several months before it gets a lot worse. But it most certainly will get worse. The problem is that there is a lot of load on that particular component.

I initially solved the problem by replacing that capacitor. You have to match the farads and voltage. This is a trivial job for an electrical repairer if you don’t have experience.

However.... turns out, even matching the specs doesn’t mean all capacitors are equal. I’ve had to replace the same one several times over, because they haven’t had the lifespan of the original.

So... most recently, I’ve simply ordered a whole new power supply. This is an internal board, quite small, separate from the main boards and connected by cables. Fortunately it is an off-the-shelf part, and not a Moog bespoke part. So, you can order it online, for around about 150 us. I can’t recall the name of that part off the top of my head, but the exact model is printed on the bottom of the board, and you can simply google it. I found one on eBay. I suggest doing this sooner rather than later because though they are around, they may be out of production.

Let me know if you have any questions. There is quite a big thread here on gs about the exact problem.

[edit: here is the thread. Moog Voyager: power supply caps leaking or something else? (pics included) ]
According to this, it's a meanwell switching power supply. Should be easy to source and install.

http://studiorepair.com/gallery/Moog...707070073.html

It's great when off the shelf parts are used. I had a ps fail on an emu synth, but it was a standard board. It cost only only 40 eur to get a replacement.
Old 26th February 2020
  #143
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
According to this, it's a meanwell switching power supply. Should be easy to source and install.

http://studiorepair.com/gallery/Moog...707070073.html

It's great when off the shelf parts are used. I had a ps fail on an emu synth, but it was a standard board. It cost only only 40 eur to get a replacement.
Yep, it is a Mean Well.

They definitely meant well, haha. The exact part can be identified by the number printed on the rear of the board.
Old 27th February 2020
  #144
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
The bad news is that the problem you describe is likely to get worse until the machine is inoperable.

The good news is, if I’m right in identifying your problem, it’s relatively easy to fix.

I’ve been through this myself. The symptoms you describe sound very much like the main capacitor on your power supply is beginning to fail.

It may be weeks or even several months before it gets a lot worse. But it most certainly will get worse. The problem is that there is a lot of load on that particular component.

I initially solved the problem by replacing that capacitor. You have to match the farads and voltage. This is a trivial job for an electrical repairer if you don’t have experience.

However.... turns out, even matching the specs doesn’t mean all capacitors are equal. I’ve had to replace the same one several times over, because they haven’t had the lifespan of the original.

So... most recently, I’ve simply ordered a whole new power supply. This is an internal board, quite small, separate from the main boards and connected by cables. Fortunately it is an off-the-shelf part, and not a Moog bespoke part. So, you can order it online, for around about 150 us. I can’t recall the name of that part off the top of my head, but the exact model is printed on the bottom of the board, and you can simply google it. I found one on eBay. I suggest doing this sooner rather than later because though they are around, they may be out of production.

Let me know if you have any questions. There is quite a big thread here on gs about the exact problem.

[edit: here is the thread. Moog Voyager: power supply caps leaking or something else? (pics included) ]
Thanks for info and the quick reply. I had a feeling it may have something to do with the power supply by the way the screen would flicker right before it failed. I was seriously hoping it was something more along the lines of a firmware update issue but I should be so lucky. That said it doesn't sound as bad as all that if I can track down the part. I'll more than likely replace the entire PSU, sounds like an easier more sustainable fix.

Should I completely stop using the synth for the time being? Do I run the risk of damaging any other components if I do, or is the stifling inconvenience of arbitrary restarts all I have to worry about?

Thanks again for the info and the offer of support.

I'll definitely post my finding.
Old 27th February 2020
  #145
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
According to this, it's a meanwell switching power supply. Should be easy to source and install.

http://studiorepair.com/gallery/Moog...707070073.html

It's great when off the shelf parts are used. I had a ps fail on an emu synth, but it was a standard board. It cost only only 40 eur to get a replacement.

Sweet I'll look into to this too!

Thanks VLZ
Old 27th February 2020
  #146
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Yep, it is a Mean Well.

They definitely meant well, haha. The exact part can be identified by the number printed on the rear of the board.
Oh I see what you did there!!
Old 27th February 2020
  #147
Here for the gear
 

I just opened her up and she's pristine. No discolouration of any kind, or swelling of any capacitor...https://drive.google.com/open?id=10I...ewXSfuSzzC3ZIr.
Old 27th February 2020
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar3000 View Post
I just opened her up and she's pristine. No discolouration of any kind, or swelling of any capacitor...https://drive.google.com/open?id=10I...ewXSfuSzzC3ZIr.
Trouble is, though capacitors often fail visibly, they don’t necessarily [meaning they can fail invisibly].

Sadly, without going to a qualified synth technician, this situation is going to be ambiguous. It’s possible to test capacitors but kinda tricky. So not only can you not narrow down the culprit with certainty, there’s a small chance this isn’t even a power supply issue. That said, your description of the problem is exactly what the symptoms are (especially the gradual aspect of it, which points to capacitors which often gradually fail). If I were you, I’d take some consolation that this is likely an easy fix.

I don’t believe you will damage the synth by continuing to run it. It’ll be an annoyance and it’ll probably get worse, but mine has returned to perfect operation, and I have been through this cycle two or three times (I have a new ps now so hopefully that sorts me out for a while).

All of this goes without saying, ideally only a qualified tech should open it up, not least for safety reasons. Be aware that there is a strong electrocution risk while having it open and switched on.

Last edited by Praxisaxis; 27th February 2020 at 11:15 AM..
Old 27th February 2020
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Trouble is, though capacitors often fail visibly, they don’t necessarily [meaning they can fail invisibly].

Sadly, without going to a qualified synth technician, this situation is going to be ambiguous. It’s possible to test capacitors but kinda tricky. So not only can you not narrow down the culprit with certainty, there’s a small chance this isn’t even a power supply issue. That said, your description of the problem is exactly what the symptoms are (especially the gradual aspect of it, which points to capacitors which often gradually fail). If I were you, I’d take some consolation that this is likely an easy fix.

I don’t believe you will damage the synth by continuing to run it. It’ll be an annoyance and it’ll probably get worse, but mine has returned to perfect operation, and I have been through this cycle two or three times (I have a new ps now so hopefully that sorts me out for a while).

All of this goes without saying, ideally only a qualified tech should open it up, not least for safety reasons. Be aware that there is a strong electrocution risk while having it open and switched on.
That's fair. Technicians are tough to come by in my neck of the woods. I'm quite rural these days. I spent about 3 hours pushing it hard last night without a single incident. I made a point of relying on cv from my eurorack to and stayed away from the built in keyboard as much as possible as the majority of the time the reboot occurs while engaging in key-heavy jamming. I continued by building the most elaborate (albeit ludicrous) patches I could think of, utilizing both the VXP1 and the vx-351 in an attempt to trigger a reboot. To my surprise it didn't happen.

I'm not entirely sure if it's possible but if it is I may just go ahead and flash the internal memory, and reinstall the firmware in the meantime. My thinking is that I it may be producing some midi errors as a result of a SysEx issue during the last update since when using all CV sources I was unable to reproduce the symptoms. Plus I'll feel like I'm being proactive while I search for a tech... Do you think it's worth a go? Honestly at this point I haven't ruled out the possibility of ghosts.
Old 27th February 2020
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar3000 View Post
That's fair. Technicians are tough to come by in my neck of the woods. I'm quite rural these days. I spent about 3 hours pushing it hard last night without a single incident. I made a point of relying on cv from my eurorack to and stayed away from the built in keyboard as much as possible as the majority of the time the reboot occurs while engaging in key-heavy jamming. I continued by building the most elaborate (albeit ludicrous) patches I could think of, utilizing both the VXP1 and the vx-351 in an attempt to trigger a reboot. To my surprise it didn't happen.

I'm not entirely sure if it's possible but if it is I may just go ahead and flash the internal memory, and reinstall the firmware in the meantime. My thinking is that I it may be producing some midi errors as a result of a SysEx issue during the last update since when using all CV sources I was unable to reproduce the symptoms. Plus I'll feel like I'm being proactive while I search for a tech... Do you think it's worth a go? Honestly at this point I haven't ruled out the possibility of ghosts.
No harm in trying, but I would really suspect the ps problem. As I said, I don’t think you can hurt it at all by continuing to use it. If I’m right about the problem (and I think it’s very likely), then your probable worst case scenario is getting an electrical repairer to swap out the big fat capacitor on the power supply (or replacing the whole ps). In the mean time, go for your life and use it lots, it’s a beautiful instrument.
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