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Moog matriarch
Old 18th September 2019
  #1561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markwalkerjr View Post
OK, I just did an experiment and switched from TS to TRS cables on my mixer and I now have the gain level I should and the noise is gone. Manual says you can use either (Moog One says it requires TRS), but clearly in my mixer the Matriarch needs TRS too.
That's interesting... what kind of inputs does your mixer use, TS or TRS?

A way to test if an output is TS or TRS is to plug a pair of stereo headphones into the output. If it plays through both sides, it's TRS (stereo or mono unbalanced). If only the left, it's TS. If the two sides play out of phase and sounds weird, it's balanced TRS.

If your synth uses the same jack for headphones or main output (like the Grandmother), you have to use TS (unbalanced), otherwise you'll get phase cancellation.

P.S. On page 78, under Specifications, the Matriarch uses balanced TRS outputs. So, using a TRS cable gives you a balanced signal, at a higher level than if you use unbalanced TS. So, if your mixer takes a balanced TRS in, use that with the Matriarch.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMOTM View Post
I like this one

Great demo... though it makes me want the Grandmother more than the Matriarch. I love that lead sound.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1563
Gear Nut
 
dossiers_upfront's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan G View Post
just following up to see if anyone else has noticed issues with the sequencer/ arp responding to analog clock input?
I read a post from a synth facebook group from a Matriarch owner who reported having this issue as well. Said Moog is aware and is working to address it. Also said that clock works well with midi thankfully (I am saving up for a Matriarch and am looking forward to sequencing arp with my MPC live. Can't wait!)
Old 19th September 2019
  #1564
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatz View Post
That's interesting... what kind of inputs does your mixer use, TS or TRS?

A way to test if an output is TS or TRS is to plug a pair of stereo headphones into the output. If it plays through both sides, it's TRS (stereo or mono unbalanced). If only the left, it's TS. If the two sides play out of phase and sounds weird, it's balanced TRS.

If your synth uses the same jack for headphones or main output (like the Grandmother), you have to use TS (unbalanced), otherwise you'll get phase cancellation.

P.S. On page 78, under Specifications, the Matriarch uses balanced TRS outputs. So, using a TRS cable gives you a balanced signal, at a higher level than if you use unbalanced TS. So, if your mixer takes a balanced TRS in, use that with the Matriarch.
My mixer is TRS, but works fine with TS cables, but I think since it was a TRS out on the other end it wanted to see TRS at its end. Or TS with the Matriarch is just not a great match. I am just happy to be in business with strong levels and, more importantly, no noise!
Old 19th September 2019
  #1565
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apessino's Avatar
I have not yet had enough time to test everything, and the time I have had hgs been mostly meandering and playing in an orgasmic high , but my output levels are fine, if not particularly hot. I am thinking a touch of gain might still be in order, but maybe it's just my gain staging on this synth is not yet spot on.

I have had no trouble with ties/rests, at least in my limited use of the sequencer so far, and no issues at all with sync (only used MIDI sync over USB).

I did notice the strange behavior if you change octave while you are holding a note - that one seems like a bug I can confirm.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1566
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apessino's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by markwalkerjr View Post
My mixer is TRS, but works fine with TS cables, but I think since it was a TRS out on the other end it wanted to see TRS at its end. Or TS with the Matriarch is just not a great match. I am just happy to be in business with strong levels and, more importantly, no noise!
Same here, noise floor seem to be what you would expect from an analog synth like this. I have not paid attention, but I did not notice significant noise floor even with the delays wide open; no more than expected at least.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1567
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apessino View Post
Same here, noise floor seem to be what you would expect from an analog synth like this. I have not paid attention, but I did not notice significant noise floor even with the delays wide open; no more than expected at least.
Noise floor is super low now, with just TS cables I had an insane amount and when turning up the preamp gain it did really strange things. Almost like noise stepping.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1568
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apessino's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by markwalkerjr View Post
Noise floor is super low now, with just TS cables I had an insane amount and when turning up the preamp gain it did really strange things. Almost like noise stepping.
Strange - good to know! I am using TS cable btw, into an RME FireFace 802 (which takes balanced ins), and have no issue.

I might switch to TRS just in case...
Old 19th September 2019
  #1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by dossiers_upfront View Post
I read a post from a synth facebook group from a Matriarch owner who reported having this issue as well. Said Moog is aware and is working to address it. Also said that clock works well with midi thankfully (I am saving up for a Matriarch and am looking forward to sequencing arp with my MPC live. Can't wait!)
Thanks for this and good to know its being worked on!
Old 19th September 2019
  #1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by markwalkerjr View Post
OK, I just did an experiment and switched from TS to TRS cables on my mixer and I now have the gain level I should and the noise is gone. Manual says you can use either (Moog One says it requires TRS), but clearly in my mixer the Matriarch needs TRS too.

Headphone volume is still low but that may be a calibration issue or how Moog chose to set it, I would like some clarification on that so I emailed them. I tried a couple headsets I own and the loudest ones are my Sennheiser 280Pro which are almost double the impedance of the audio-technica md-50x usually use with synths, which makes no sense. They do fit a bit tighter though, so maybe that’s it. Just looking for some clarity here from Moog. Happy to have the proper level at the mixer and noise resolved though. Hope this helps someone else.

interesting. After reading your post I plugged in my DT 1770 Pros and they were quite a bit louder than the 770s.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1571
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan G View Post
interesting. After reading your post I plugged in my DT 1770 Pros and they were quite a bit louder than the 770s.
Strange right? Doesn't follow the laws of impedence.

I tried my highest impedance planar headphones though and those are quiet as a mouse. Even at full volume.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1572
Just got my Matriarch today from Sweetwater. Super stoked! It sounds not only just as good but far better in my studio through my monitors than it did on the floor at MoogFest, when I had to listen through headphones. Just a fabulously lovely sounding synth, and so easy to get musical tones from it...

I'd be happy to do a comparison of the Matriarch's delay with a 104m and Moog 500 series if someone can recommend how best to do it / what they'd like to hear.

Hearing the delay now (not through headphones), I am more impressed with it. It's really a fantastic sounding delay.

Old 19th September 2019
  #1573
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Anyone had luck getting the delay to do slapbacky reverb type sounds or get it low enough to do chorusy type stuff? Having trouble dialing that in. Please share settings if you have, I would appreciate it.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1574
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drxcm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markwalkerjr View Post
Anyone had luck getting the delay to do slapbacky reverb type sounds or get it low enough to do chorusy type stuff? Having trouble dialing that in. Please share settings if you have, I would appreciate it.
Try using a negative voltage offset into patched into delay time
Old 19th September 2019
  #1575
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drxcm View Post
Try using a negative voltage offset into patched into delay time
Thanks, new to modular as the Grandmother was my introduction. Appreciate the pathway!
Old 19th September 2019
  #1576
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drxcm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markwalkerjr View Post
Thanks, new to modular as the Grandmother was my introduction. Appreciate the pathway!
Not sure how you patch it on the Matriarch exactly as I don’t have one but I think the attenuators give voltages out if no input is patched. You want a negative voltage to essentially reduce the delay time lower than the delay knob will allow you.

If you mix that negative voltage with an attenuated LFO in the second channel of attenuators then that might get you into chorus territory
Old 19th September 2019
  #1577
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by drxcm View Post
Not sure how you patch it on the Matriarch exactly as I don’t have one but I think the attenuators give voltages out if no input is patched. You want a negative voltage to essentially reduce the delay time lower than the delay knob will allow you.

If you mix that negative voltage with an attenuated LFO in the second channel of attenuators then that might get you into chorus territory
I've been having trouble getting the attenuvertors to work the way I expect, which is to output no voltage in the centered the position. It seems like the moment I patch in an attenuverter, there is some sort of voltage or offset that's sent to that parameter .. so like if I'm patching the cutoff freq, the filter always gets brighter even if I have the attenuverter centered at 0. Same thing if I patch from my Quadratt in either uni or +/- mode.

Anyone else experiencing this? Am I missing something obvious? Worked fine on the Grandmother.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1578
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snail View Post
Just got my Matriarch today from Sweetwater. Super stoked! It sounds not only just as good but far better in my studio through my monitors than it did on the floor at MoogFest, when I had to listen through headphones. Just a fabulously lovely sounding synth, and so easy to get musical tones from it...

I'd be happy to do a comparison of the Matriarch's delay with a 104m and Moog 500 series if someone can recommend how best to do it / what they'd like to hear.

Hearing the delay now (not through headphones), I am more impressed with it. It's really a fantastic sounding delay.

I would love to hear a comparison ... don't have any ideas on how to do it other than sending the same patch through one & then the other.

YT aside, what are your thoughts between the two? Does the 500 sound even cleaner w/ the better signal path presumably? The plugin control sounds cool but I'm more inclined to do sound design OTB so is that one of the biggest draws about the 500s?

I didn't really know a non-tape delay could sound so amazing ... it's killed any gas I had for a Space Echo but now I'm wondering if I need a 500 delay module (or 2), esp if I already have the Matriarch & the cost is probably cheaper to keep the synth for the delays?
Old 19th September 2019
  #1579
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkdvb View Post
I've been having trouble getting the attenuvertors to work the way I expect, which is to output no voltage in the centered the position. It seems like the moment I patch in an attenuverter, there is some sort of voltage or offset that's sent to that parameter .. so like if I'm patching the cutoff freq, the filter always gets brighter even if I have the attenuverter centered at 0. Same thing if I patch from my Quadratt in either uni or +/- mode.

Anyone else experiencing this? Am I missing something obvious? Worked fine on the Grandmother.
If you patch Attenuator 2 to filter cutoff, then Attenuator 1 (if it is not patched) acts as a DC offset to filter cutoff. So in that case, make sure A1 is also centered
Old 19th September 2019
  #1580
Gear Head
 

Confirmed sequencer bug with Moog

I reported the sequencer tie problem to Moog and they requested a video. Based on that they were able to reproduce the bug and confirmed it is a problem with the sequencer. They said it will be fixed in a future firmware update. I am still waiting on confirmation of the sequencer glide problem, but I am confident now it is also reproduce able.

Thanks, apessino, for confirming the octave shift bug. I have also reported that and waiting on confirmation from Moog. After more experimentation I have discovered it only affects oscillators 2, 3, and 4.

By way the way, I also checked velocity response against the Grandmother. Unfortunately, they appear to be exactly the same (=nearly useless). The funny thing is that they work great when converting properly scaled MIDI velocity signals from other keyboards. I plugged in a Yamaha MODX over MIDI into the Grandmother and patched the velocity out CV to filter envelope amount and was blown away with how expressive it is when played from the Yamaha. Still, this gives me hope that the scaling can be fixed in the software with a future firmware update. Will also try to confirm this with Moog.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1581
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoogRogue View Post
I plugged in a Yamaha MODX over MIDI into the Grandmother and patched the velocity out CV to filter envelope amount and was blown away with how expressive it is when played from the Yamaha. Still, this gives me hope that the scaling can be fixed in the software with a future firmware update. Will also try to confirm this with Moog.
Is there any difference if you turn local off and plug the midi in into the midi out?
Old 19th September 2019
  #1582
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apessino's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoogRogue View Post
I reported the sequencer tie problem to Moog and they requested a video. Based on that they were able to reproduce the bug and confirmed it is a problem with the sequencer. They said it will be fixed in a future firmware update. I am still waiting on confirmation of the sequencer glide problem, but I am confident now it is also reproduce able.

Thanks, apessino, for confirming the octave shift bug. I have also reported that and waiting on confirmation from Moog. After more experimentation I have discovered it only affects oscillators 2, 3, and 4.

By way the way, I also checked velocity response against the Grandmother. Unfortunately, they appear to be exactly the same (=nearly useless). The funny thing is that they work great when converting properly scaled MIDI velocity signals from other keyboards. I plugged in a Yamaha MODX over MIDI into the Grandmother and patched the velocity out CV to filter envelope amount and was blown away with how expressive it is when played from the Yamaha. Still, this gives me hope that the scaling can be fixed in the software with a future firmware update. Will also try to confirm this with Moog.
Thank you for that last point! So it was not just in my head, the velocity scaling feels definitely off, I thought I was doing something wrong. Hopefully they can improve on it soon - it’s not just too compressed, the response just does not feel linear. Funny that I never noticed on the GM... I guess the Matriarch just lends itself to be played more expressively.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1583
Gear Nut
 
bucketsofcake's Avatar
 

Just curious. Do all of you who currently have a Matriarch have the Moogfest edition? Is there any reason to believe that the Moogfest badge would either help or hinder potential resale in the future?

Secondly, of the minor issues and hiccups so far raised in this thread, how many can be solved with simple firmware updates? I'm so close to purchasing one of these, but all the problems surrounding the Moog One launch have me a little spooked. I realize this is an architecturally different synth, but I really don't want to shell out 2k for a six-month headache.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1584
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draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketsofcake View Post
Just curious. Do all of you who currently have a Matriarch have the Moogfest edition? Is there any reason to believe that the Moogfest badge would either help or hinder potential resale in the future?

Secondly, of the minor issues and hiccups so far raised in this thread, how many can be solved with simple firmware updates? I'm so close to purchasing one of these, but all the problems surrounding the Moog One launch have me a little spooked. I realize this is an architecturally different synth, but I really don't want to shell out 2k for a six-month headache.
No Moogfest badge on mine...

So far, my impression is that the various issues are all fixable in firmware.

I had one of the first Moog One's and all the various issues really got in the way of playing it... Sometimes it restarted itself, or got weird and needed a restart (frequently), envelopes and FX were buggy etc etc etc. I found it not useable and frustrating for such a high end instrument (seems most of that stuff has been worked out now).

So far, I am having a blast with the Matriarch and do not feel like there is any significant impediment to doing what I want. It is entirely different from the Moog One for me. However, I have not even plugged in a usb cable yet and am not trying to use it as a controller or doing anything with midi which is where there are some issues.

The one place I had a problem was with the sustain pedal behaving oddly and Moog is looking into it.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1585
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketsofcake View Post
Just curious. Do all of you who currently have a Matriarch have the Moogfest edition? Is there any reason to believe that the Moogfest badge would either help or hinder potential resale in the future?

Secondly, of the minor issues and hiccups so far raised in this thread, how many can be solved with simple firmware updates? I'm so close to purchasing one of these, but all the problems surrounding the Moog One launch have me a little spooked. I realize this is an architecturally different synth, but I really don't want to shell out 2k for a six-month headache.
Pretty much anything can be fixed by firmware. If anything else they are great with their warranty based on my personal experience. I have a Moogfest, but there are plenty of non-Moogfest out there at this point too it seems. Sweetwater and others are shipping their preorders. Musicians Friend/Guitar Center are now out of Moogfest according to my rep.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1586
Here for the gear
 

Anyone else get one with no power supply (or manual, patchbook, patch cables)? Mine got here Monday but is essentially a $2k paperweight so far. Box just had the synth and the packing material inside.

Emails and phone calls to Sweetwater haven't been helpful (I'm guessing they don't have the power supplies stocked). Emailed Moog, no reply yet. I guess a phone call to Moog is my next step.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1587
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markyboard View Post
Is there any difference if you turn local off and plug the midi in into the midi out?
I can try this later, but can you explain in a little more detail what it is that you want to check?

I have seen a lot of comments in this thread about local off but I have not had a chance to confirm issues related to local off because I don't ever use that mode. I am actually having the opposite problem with Cakewalk because it sends a local off signal to the GM if I have it plugged in when I start the program, and I cannot disable this behavior (a Cakewalk problem, not a GM problem). The first time it happened I thought my GM was broken and I reinstalled the firmware! I will go back and re-read comments here.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1588
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
The one place I had a problem was with the sustain pedal behaving oddly and Moog is looking into it.
What exactly is the issue? I tested one out and it worked, but I could not retrigger the sustained note. In other words, hitting the initial key for the note being sustained does not retrigger the envelopes.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1589
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketsofcake View Post
Just curious. Do all of you who currently have a Matriarch have the Moogfest edition? Is there any reason to believe that the Moogfest badge would either help or hinder potential resale in the future?

Secondly, of the minor issues and hiccups so far raised in this thread, how many can be solved with simple firmware updates? I'm so close to purchasing one of these, but all the problems surrounding the Moog One launch have me a little spooked. I realize this is an architecturally different synth, but I really don't want to shell out 2k for a six-month headache.
Mine is not a Moogfest edition, just an early preorder.

So far, I believe every single issue I have identified is resolveable by firmware updates because I assume they are all digitally implemented (the sequencer and octave shifts are digital, and I think the issue with velocity and sustain pedal are also digital). Local on/off issues and clock issues should also be fixable. The biggest challenge is making sure Moog is fully aware of the nature of each issue.
Old 19th September 2019
  #1590
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apessino View Post
Thank you for that last point! So it was not just in my head, the velocity scaling feels definitely off, I thought I was doing something wrong. Hopefully they can improve on it soon - it’s not just too compressed, the response just does not feel linear. Funny that I never noticed on the GM... I guess the Matriarch just lends itself to be played more expressively.
It is definitely not in your head. I have found discussions of it online (at the Moog forum for one), and everyone seems to say the same thing... It is basically either on or off. I can get about three different identifiable levels from it, but the low and mid levels require such a light touch that they are not useable. I checked the MIDI with a MIDI monitor and it isn't right either. That is what gives me hope it can be changed. If you get a chance, try comparing the Matriarch and GM.

I mentioned this to a sales guy at the Moog factory once and he didn't seem to understand... Gonna try by e-mail with a video comparison.
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