The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Roland files trademarks for 303 and 808 designs in Germany Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 8th February 2019
  #1
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

Roland files trademarks for 303 and 808 designs in Germany

Roland is currently trying to protect the 808 colors and the 303 design as a trademark (in Germany, hint) .

Fact Magazine]Page not found - FACT Magazine: Music News, New Music.
Quote:
In a move that could be seen as a way to protect itself against companies like Behringer from cloning its gear, Japanese music hardware giant Roland has recently filed design trademarks for its iconic TB-303 and TR-808 designs in Germany.
Quote:
It’s not clear why Roland has waited quite so long to register these trademarks (the 808 was released in 1980 and the 303 in 1981), but its hand is likely to have been forced by the imminent arrival of Behringer’s RD-808, an analog clone of Roland’s original that draws liberally from the original design. Though Behringer’s $299 drum machine is the most high-profile replica of classic Roland gear, it’s not alone: devices like the Cyclone Analogic TT-303 Bass Bot and System80’s 880 Eurorack module based on the 808 have also drawn from Roland’s orginal designs.
Official DPMA Register for the 808

Official DPMA Register 303]400 Bad Request

The images Roland has used for it's trademarks:





We saw a similar situation for ReBirth which was discontinued for iPad back in 2017-06-15 as Roland claimed IP infringement. Propellorhead's statement back then:

Quote:
We have decided to discontinue ReBirth for iPad. The decision comes after a statement from Roland that the product infringes on the company’s intellectual property rights. Rather than refuting this claim, we have decided to honor our long-standing relationship with Roland Corporation, and have therefore come to the conclusion that the best path forward is to discontinue the product.
Curious how this will play out.
6
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #2
It's obvious.
People, not just B, are using Roland designs and artwork to make themselves a living.
If you want to make an 808 or 303, give it a different name, use different fonts and colours. But people don't....
I'm not personally judging them, just making the point that any company are within their right to protect their artwork, designs and product names.
17
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

In the official DPMA record of the 808 it says:

Quote:
510 Goods / services directory WDVHelp for field WDV Class (es) Nice 09:

Electron tubes; semiconductor chips; electronic circuits not recorded with computer programs; computer software; computer software applications, downloadable; computer software for music production used in virtual music performance; computer software for processing digital music files; computer software for creating and editing music and sounds; downloadable computer software for controlling electronic musical instruments; computer memory devices, namely USB Cards, Secure Digital (SD) Memory Cards; protective covers and cases for cell phones; straps for mobile phones; computer mice; mouse pads; metronomes; electric and electronic effects units for musical instruments; electronic circuits and CD-ROMs recorded with automatic performance programs for electronic musical instruments; phonograph records featuring music;
Class (es) Nice 15: Tuners for musical instruments; musical instruments; electronic musical instruments; music synthesizers; carrying cases for musical instruments; stands for musical instruments; electronic musical keyboards; sound effect pedals for musical instruments.
They forgot to mention shoes

3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #4
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
That trademark would definitely kill any chance of any more RE-303 "official aluminum" cases from being sold, by the store owner anyway. Glad I got mine while they lasted.
Old 8th February 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 46dc28f View Post
That trademark would definitely kill any chance of any more RE-303 "official aluminum" cases from being sold, by the store owner, anyway.
Roland is obviously trying to protect their 'legacy' and brand.

Many people would love it if Roland would do analog recreations of their classic designs, and yet, they haven't done so. But here comes Behringer does exactly this! Roland obviously do not like other companies capitalizing from it's legacy products.

So, Who is right here, who is wrong?
6
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post

So, Who is right here, who is wrong?
I already told you.
I think they have accepted people will make clones and emulations. The fact those people exploit Roland's product names and artwork is the issue here.
This move isn't going to stop people making and selling TB303 style mono synths or 808 style drum machines. IT's going to stop them using the same fonts, colour schemes and product names.
If you are a real musician it's all about the sound - right?

I have been involved in drum sampling for years. A few years ago it was made known it was no longer 'cool' to name your clubby kicks and claps "909".
So people sold the same samples with non-Roland names.
Actually, people have been profiting on the back of Roland's legacy for decades.
Whether you think Roland should have done the same - is a separate debate.
6
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #7
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post

So, Who is right here, who is wrong?
Depends who you ask. You can see where I stand from my RD-909 avatar.

...Then you have the grumpy camp who can't stand Behringer or their clones. Or the folks who think it's wrong to clone Roland, unless your a boutique, small production cloner. Elitists, IMO.
2
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I already told you.
I think they have accepted people will make clones and emulations. The fact those people exploit Roland's product names and artwork is the issue here.
On the 'Branding' clausule, Roland posted a picture of the color scheme of the 808.
So Behringer has nothing to worry about, because they reversed the colors. It's genius.




26
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
So Behringer has nothing to worry about, because they reversed the colors. It's genius.
They've used the SAME colours though - and the same font, more or less the same layout, and incorporated the 808® aspect.
It's not just Behringer. It's been going on for years, and from a wide variety of gear makers.
It happened in sampling years ago, where the major drum sample purveyors stopped using the brands 808 and 909 specifically in their products.
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by e6400ultra View Post

...Then you have the grumpy camp who can't stand Behringer or their clones. Or the folks who think it's wrong to clone Roland, unless your a boutique, small production cloner. Elitists, IMO.
This isn't about cloning the machines. This is about copying ALL the artwork design, the colour schemes, the layout of knobs and switches, the fonts and product names.
Behringer can clone the 808, put it in a pink metallic box like Neutron and call it Sexual Healing, while just letting it be known it's an emulation of a classic drum machine.
6
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
They've used the SAME colours though - and the same font, more or less the same layout.
all Behringer have to do is change the colours, keep the top white level pots, change the next row of pots from orange to yellow or a red. change the colour of the lemon-yellow drum sound names to a light blue. and the 16 step buttons alternating blue to white. As for the fonts anyone can use them, they are mix of the geometric231 and Serif Gothic fonts. if they ever do a 303 clone they can go from a silver to a grey casing.

anyway it will be a few months before it appears, behringer may well change the colours, layout etc, or they might not!
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #12
Gear Addict
 

This whole debate is actually rather funny really if you look at it from an outside perspective. You got Roland who without aiming to do so, created timeless classics which many people still pay top dollar for on the used market. They have been receiving for many years begging emails and requests via various channels of communication asking for re issues of those iconic instruments. Their stance was simple, either no reply or a simple 'NO' followed by highly anticipated PR of new products which turned out to be for many more than dissapointing. Even if you take away the debate of digital replicas versus analog re issues, they were often lacking functionality the original instruments were so loved for (besides the sound).

Along come other companies who decided to clone some of these icons knowing there is demand which Roland refuses to fulfill. All of a sudden Roland is up in arms about it which to me is a little strange as they could have done this themselves and made more money then these cloning companies would ever make. Let's be honest, Roland is very capable of doing what for example Behringer is doing but they probably didn't think it would be worth their while.
15
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
all Behringer have to do is change the colours, keep the top white level pots, change the next row of pots from orange to yellow or a red. change the colour of the lemon-yellow drum sound names to a light blue. and the 16 step buttons alternating blue to white.
Agreed.
People have been selling 808 and 909 sample packs for years, but they just don't steal the IP any more.
KICK 2 | Award Winning Kick Drum Synthesiser
Quote:
KICK 2 comes bundled with over 230 Factory presets in a wide range of styles including Analog / Bass / Drum & Bass / House / Live / Percussion / Pop / Progressive House / Psy Trance / Snares / Techno / Toms / Trance / Trap
Old 8th February 2019
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Morley View Post

Along come other companies who decided to clone some of these icons knowing there is demand which Roland refuses to fulfill. All of a sudden Roland is up in arms about it which to me is a little strange as they could have done this themselves and made more money then these cloning companies would ever make. Let's be honest, Roland is very capable of doing what for example Behringer is doing but they probably didn't think it would be worth their while.
I know people can't WAIT to gorge themselves on yet another anti Roland whine fest. But there is NOTHING in this to stop any company making an 808 or 909 type drum machine.
It IS all about using Roland's product names, their design, their artwork to sell something they had nothing to do with.
You want to make it about the clones, but it ISN'T, it's about using everything Roland originally paid for to sell YOUR clone.
Think of a unique name, come up with original artwork.
9
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Maybe next they'll copyright the use of glossy-black finishes edged with neon green and pointless cascading light displays.
6
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
 
the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Old 8th February 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehighesttree View Post
Maybe next they'll copyright the use of glossy-black finishes edged with neon green and pointless cascading light displays.
I think Roland lacks creative vision nowadays. They are trying too hard to capitalize on their legacy products by re-using their 808, 909, Jupiter this, Juno that. Which most of the time have absolutely nothing of the magic the old machines had.
They should just come up with something new, innovative and exciting (or do a proper reissue themselves). But they shouldn't focus their energy on emailing other brands they can't use their rainbow colors.

If they really don't like it that people clone their stuff, why not just do a 100% reissue themselves, and earn loads and loads of money from it, and call it a day. Do a limited run, like Moog did, people will go crazy for it. But instead, they whine about it that other companies 'steal' their identity. I don't get Roland at all.
5
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #18
Lives for gear
 

I like clones that sound like the original.
I dislike clones that try hard to look like the original - they just look like a cheap Chinese copy, someting i would be ashamed to show to my friends.
Google images for:
chinese adidas copy funny - Google Search
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
I think Roland lacks creative vision nowadays.
Just like the companies copying their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
If they really don't like it that people clone their stuff, why not just do a 100% reissue themselves, and earn loads and loads of money from it, and call it a day. Do a limited run, like Moog did, people will go crazy for it. But instead, they whine about it that other companies 'steal' their identity. I don't get Roland at all.
They’ve been doing quite well for themselves repackaging the sounds every few years. They don’t need to do 100% reissues.
4
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #20
Lives for gear
 
jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Utter nonsense
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #21
Given how little Roland made Behri change their pedal designs, I'd be surprised if this is really an issue.
Old 8th February 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 

LOL. Like the ineffectual thrashing about of a loser.
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
 

By the way, all they (Roland) need to do to win this:
Go back about 10 years in time and release their own reissues.
And i don't mean digital recreations.

But someone at some dark 2 square meters cubicle decided that there was not enough demand when used prices on Ebay were like 5-10 times the original price...
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
Going to go out on a limb here and state I fully believe Behringer's marketing people are behind this whole push as part of a post NAMM product awareness campaign, that is working wonders for them

The trademark from a year ago was all about Roland's deal with Puma
3
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #25
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I know people can't WAIT to gorge themselves on yet another anti Roland whine fest. But there is NOTHING in this to stop any company making an 808 or 909 type drum machine.
It IS all about using Roland's product names, their design, their artwork to sell something they had nothing to do with.
You want to make it about the clones, but it ISN'T, it's about using everything Roland originally paid for to sell YOUR clone.
Think of a unique name, come up with original artwork.
I get your sentiment and I'm not wanting to bash anyone, merely pointing out how I see it.

Isn't the point of a clone that it's as much as the original? Otherwise it would be something different inspired by the original (isn't Behringer adding functions anyway?)
Old 8th February 2019
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Sclr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Going to go out on a limb here and state I fully believe Behringer's marketing people are behind this whole push as part of a post NAMM product awareness campaign, that is working wonders for them

The trademark from a year ago was all about Roland's deal with Puma
I believe it.
2
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
I think Roland lacks creative vision nowadays. They are trying too hard to capitalize on their legacy products by re-using their 808, 909, Jupiter this, Juno that. Which most of the time have absolutely nothing of the magic the old machines had.
They should just come up with something new, innovative and exciting (or do a proper reissue themselves). But they shouldn't focus their energy on emailing other brands they can't use their rainbow colors.
Here's a tip: forget the names. Roland loves to reference old names but the names aren't the products. To appreciate what novel things those products bring to the table you need to look at what they are instead of worrying about the branding they bear.
2
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

I'm still of the opinion that they're practically incapable of making a proper reissue, otherwise why wouldn't they? Like Patrick said, they're mostly legacy: very much like Nintendo, they keep trying to evoke the sentiment of their classic products, but always seem to focus on re-selling that legacy in watered-down format over-and-over ad-infinitum.

****'em. Roland--as far as its synth/rhythm machine division is concerned--is basically a has-been company that's losing momentum thanks to this branding hubris and operating under the business model of "don't give 'em what they really want", then charges 30% more than a comparable product from the competition. The competition is right for pecking at the bloated Roland corpse, and good on Behringer for filling the market void these fools have made for themselves over the last 30 years.
8
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Soothing Sound's Avatar
Mixed feelings.

They own the design of these machines, either you like it or not, because they didn't take the action you wanted (1:1 replicas).

Sad that they only made a move because of B menace...

With the advancements of 3D printing you are going to be able to make a 1:1 copies from these designs and buy some DIY kits from the web in a near future, kind of pointless move IMO.
1
Share
Old 8th February 2019
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
I think Roland lacks creative vision nowadays. ......
They should just come up with something new, innovative and exciting
Like the System 1M - dsp synthesis completely Eurorack compatible.
The System 8 synth engine
The TR8s
The Aira FX modules for Eurorack like Torcido and Bitrazer.
Most of the drum and percussion division is industry standard and leading the pack.
TD50, TD17, SPDSX, TM6 Pro etc.....

People just want to continue to repeat these myths, even when they are patently not true.
18
Share
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Tha Knoq / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
21
NerWraK / Gear Shoot-Outs / Sound File Comparisons / Audio Tests
0
Radic / Post your electronic music here
4
conanb / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
20
katstudio / So much gear, so little time
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump