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Warm (organic?) digital synths
Old 16th April 2019
  #91
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Have not heard ANY Access Virus that sound warm. They are the definition of digital sounding gear.
Old 16th April 2019
  #92
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I would consider the Virus to have a warm sound. It can get very thick too.
Old 16th April 2019
  #93
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Totally not my experience. I think it's only the first few harmonics that contribute to 'warm'. The very high end doesn't really come into play.

I sometimes do parallel distortion. Split the audio path, roll off high freqs, put it through a distortion and maybe roll off some more high freqs if the distortion is severe. Then combine with original to taste.
I don’t think you are disagreeing with me though. By definition, the high harmonics are the high end. It’s not obvious , But a certain richness which I associate with warmth depends on a degree of distortion, hence harmonics, hence high end
Old 16th April 2019
  #94
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I've been going through this with my current herd. My Korg M50 is incredibly warm, although the filters can sometimes sound stuffy. My PC3k can be warm or digital, or anywhere in between. I appreciate him more every day. However, the Fantom X is a massive, fat Ice Queen. No warmth there, just pure digital. You'd think after however many iterations of the same engine, they'd have gotten it right. It mixes well with itself, but in the end, the individual patches just leave me cold. Me and my other boards agree: it's time for her to leave.

I agree that the older Ensoniqs were warm, but that was due to the analog filters, so I'm not sure if they count in this thread. Nords can be warm, but I don't consider the Viruses or the Blofelds to be warm at all.
Old 16th April 2019
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine View Post
Have not heard ANY Access Virus that sound warm. They are the definition of digital sounding gear.
The point being made is that as far as digital synths Virus synths can/do sound "warm".
Old 16th April 2019
  #96
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
I don’t think you are disagreeing with me though. By definition, the high harmonics are the high end. It’s not obvious , But a certain richness which I associate with warmth depends on a degree of distortion, hence harmonics, hence high end
Well, i am still disagreeing.
Distortion does not limit itself to high harmonics.
And in my experience it's the lower harmonics that add to warmth and not the high end.

But i can see that maybe you associate a gentle fuzz in higher frequencies as warmer?
Old 16th April 2019
  #97
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

But i can see that maybe you associate a gentle fuzz in higher frequencies as warmer?
Not really a fuzz. More like an overall “richness” across the spectrum.
Old 16th April 2019
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
....Kurzweil K2000...

...something about older converters and subdued, musical top end full of artifacts.
100% the warmest sounding digital synth/rompler in existence.

I think you are partly correct about the older converters but I think it also has a lot to do with the electronics around them! Old DACs use filtering post conversion and the signal path itself allows for plenty of signal degradation.
Old 17th April 2019
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
I don’t think you are disagreeing with me though. By definition, the high harmonics are the high end. It’s not obvious , But a certain richness which I associate with warmth depends on a degree of distortion, hence harmonics, hence high end
Classic analog synths, typically have very low levels up upper harmonics, even with the filters wide open, it's the nature of the waveforms. Digital synths can put out any frequency at any level up to the nyquist. It's easy to overdo it! If you want a digital to sound 'warmer' and more analog, roll everything off above 5 Khz.

It is the lower harmonics that give "warmth" the Pretty much warmth is in the range of fundamentals of a piano. ie highest note 4186 kz.
Old 17th April 2019
  #100
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Not really a fuzz. More like an overall “richness” across the spectrum.
Aah,.. Totally different over here.
For me, 'rich' and 'warm' are different notions. Something can be rich and harsh and totally not warm.

I guess it just shows how badly defined and subjective these words are,.
Old 13th May 2019
  #101
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My Kurzweil. I **** my pants plenty each time i manage to pull together a track on it using its filters effects just with its sequencer.

Warm but still clear. Balanced fatness and punch. Mix ready sounds. Superb.
I have 4 Kurzweils
Old 15th May 2019
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold View Post
Classic analog synths, typically have very low levels up upper harmonics, even with the filters wide open, it's the nature of the waveforms. Digital synths can put out any frequency at any level up to the nyquist. It's easy to overdo it! If you want a digital to sound 'warmer' and more analog, roll everything off above 5 Khz.

It is the lower harmonics that give "warmth" the Pretty much warmth is in the range of fundamentals of a piano. ie highest note 4186 kz.
Ehhh... that's probably why I apply an Aphex Exciter on my analogs, and was *very* happy when the 204 was released (I have five!) I mean, you're right -- the harmonics above 5K aren't as present as the low-to-mid harmonics on most analogs, and the Aphex just brings out an extra dimension, something I refer to as "sparkle" to augment the "warmth".

It's something I rarely feel the need to use on my digital synths, with the notable exceptions of my Roland XV-5080 and Korg Triton (which really do sound good, but the extra help from the Aphex 204 is both noticed and appreciated!). My Kurzweils and Yamahas already have the top end nailed, and my Roland JD-990 is just insanely gorgeous. There's something magical about the sound of the JD-990 that I haven't heard from anyone at any time; you start playing it and it just fills every available space with sound.
Old 15th May 2019
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
I have 4 Kurzweils
I have six, all K2 series (K2000R, K2500XS, 2xK2500RS, 2xK2600RS). Which do you have?
Old 15th May 2019
  #104
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DX7 V1....let me repeat VERSION 1!!!!

There is a BIG difference between the first DX7 and all those that followed, and that difference is..........wait for it.......WARMTH

Ensoniq SQ-80 and ESQ1...

Kawai K3.....maybe....it's been a while

Korg DW-8000

Casio CZ-101 (Seriously....you would be SHOCKED)

Hmmm....the rest are mostly ****e.
Old 15th May 2019
  #105
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ASR-10
Old 15th May 2019
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_KPX View Post
100% the warmest sounding digital synth/rompler in existence.

I think you are partly correct about the older converters but I think it also has a lot to do with the electronics around them! Old DACs use filtering post conversion and the signal path itself allows for plenty of signal degradation.
My tech told the same thing when I asked why 12-bit instruments sound so much better than 16.

The answer was that there were analog filters built into the signal path to cover up whatever they thought they had to at the time....and with filters come added harmonics, thus we get.....WARMTH
Old 15th May 2019
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpl. Punishment View Post
I have six, all K2 series (K2000R, K2500XS, 2xK2500RS, 2xK2600RS). Which do you have?
3 x k2661 and one Pc361. Love the k2661. The things I've been able to do on it are crazy.
Old 16th May 2019
  #108
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Given all the gear names thrown down here it will be quicker to just make a list of the synthesizers that do not sound warm
Old 16th May 2019
  #109
BHW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
3 x k2661 and one Pc361. Love the k2661. The things I've been able to do on it are crazy.
i bought a k2661 for myself. i had no time to program it. but will dive in in the next weeks.

do you have some recordings which show some of the presets you programmed on the 2661?
Old 16th May 2019
  #110
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Things should warm up if you cover any vent holes and/or just place a heating pad under the synth.
Old 16th May 2019
  #111
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Mastropiero's Avatar
The original DX7
The original Korg Wavestation (that unbeatable warm strings performance 27!)
E-mu Emulator IV family


but the warmest digital synth of my studio is the Casio VZ-1 (when you get the right patches).

I’m excluding hybrid synths (SQ80, K3, etc.) because they’re closer to the analog side (only OSCs are digital).
Old 17th May 2019
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
Given all the gear names thrown down here it will be quicker to just make a list of the synthesizers that do not sound warm
Korg Poly-800.

I remember back in 1986, this really cool gal did a guest stint in our band and brought her Poly-800 and EX-800. I had my JX-3P and during rehearsals she let me MIDI it up to the EX-800 and I was really blown away (at the time) with the combinations I could come up with.

A few years ago, I got nostalgic when I saw a Poly-800 for $75 (and it was what you'd expect from a $75 synth) so I bought it and ... was totally let down. I still had my original patches from way back then and tried to recreate the "magic."

All I can say is I must have been "under the influence" back then, because I was pretty underwhelmed.
Old 17th May 2019
  #113
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpl. Punishment View Post
Korg Poly-800.
It's analog tho, isn't it?
Old 18th May 2019
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebase DMX View Post
Things should warm up if you cover any vent holes and/or just place a heating pad under the synth.
I removed the metal cases and drilled evenly spaced holes in them to help dissipate heat. So my rack units are pretty cool.
Old 18th May 2019
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _musique View Post
It's analog tho, isn't it?
Yeah, which makes it doubly disappointing.
Old 18th May 2019
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
DX7 V1....let me repeat VERSION 1!!!!

There is a BIG difference between the first DX7 and all those that followed, and that difference is..........wait for it.......WARMTH

Ensoniq SQ-80 and ESQ1...

Kawai K3.....maybe....it's been a while

Korg DW-8000

Casio CZ-101 (Seriously....you would be SHOCKED)

Hmmm....the rest are mostly ****e.
I have a similar list:
The warmest...

Endoniq ESQ-1/m

Kawai K3/K3m

and when using more simple tones...

DX7(v1) TX7 and FB-01

Casio CZ

Don’t forget early samplers - Mirage, Emulator I/II - Emax and especially the Akai 612.

And for those with money... Prophet VS or Waldorf Wave. And for cheap... many kids/family/mini synths could have a nice warm vibe (Casio SK-1, etc).

Of course almost any digital synth can be “warm”... but it’s not as inherent as the ones above. Including early digital Rolands and Korgs, DW-8000, 2nd Gen Digital Yamaha’s, Casio and Ensoniqs. Nords, later Waldorf’s, etc...

Concerning the Waldorf XT... there are two versions, each with a different DAC and a different sound. The newer one’s with tapered knobs and smooth finish had a brighter/clearer sound. The old ones with the textured finish and non-tapered knobs sounded warmer and bit more congested/cloudy... maybe even a bit heavier in the lows. Neither sound quite as cool as the MWII (analog filters), but you get more features and a better interface with the XT... I think they’re all great! They can be warm or cold... really cold!
Old 22nd May 2019
  #117
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
My tech told the same thing when I asked why 12-bit instruments sound so much better than 16.

The answer was that there were analog filters built into the signal path to cover up whatever they thought they had to at the time....and with filters come added harmonics, thus we get.....WARMTH
This seems more like an argument about old converters in general, not about the bit depth.
You can't really filter out the effects of a low bit depth.
If anything, the filtering is related to the sample rate.

Old converters had not so steep analog filters on the end. Not so steep means you need to start filtering at a lower frequency so the filter will remove enough of the images higher up the spectrum.
This means that you will remove a little more of the high frequencies in the wanted signal, which means it will sound a little warmer.
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