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Akai pro force Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 16th April 2019
  #1351
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
I can agree with that. However, for most slightly more complex music production that isn't "just triggering a bunch of audio files at basic intervals" the Force (and MPC line) just doesn't cut it as a central workstation.

There's just not enough you can do in terms of basic editing and midi setup to make it a centerpiece.

For instance, the sequencer part is way less capable than my more than 20 years old toy-like battery powered Yamaha QY70 midi sequencer. There are so many basic midi-range filtering, searching copying/pasting etc functions missing.

On the audio side of things it's just incredibly simple. Same problems as with the MPC. Try finding something like phase invert on the unit. Yeah, it's down to that kind of simplicity and basics.



Fair enough. Some people just need simple stuff. The Force may be perfect for you then. I'm the exact opposite. I find the Octatrack quite simple to use and quite capable.. and I don't even own one. I've only tinkered with it on several occasions.



Umm.. no it just isn't. It most definitely is not powerful. At it's core it's just a "lets press this button and audio plays! Hurray!!" machine with barely any more advanced options. There's some very rudimentary sample mangling power in it and some ok rudimentary effects. From a workstation / composing perspective it's pretty damn simple. That's just how it is.



I think I'm starting to see a pattern here. You very much dislike Electron (specifically the OT?) and I very much dislike Akai (though I've did enjoy their S2000 sampler back in the day, my first serious piece of sampling hardware).

They are extremely different in their approach. Akai truly represents the "Lets push a button and music happens! Yay!!" crowd. That seems to be their main income in the past 10 years or so. Whereas Electron is the exact opposite. They represent the "lets cram a lot of functionality, innovation and weird possibilities into tiny boxes with a tiny screen and tons of buttons to remember!". As I have zero problems in thinking abstractly and remembering a lot of button presses this doesn't faze me at all. I'd rather have the complex approach with tons of possibilities than an overtly simple one.

That's what pisses me off with Akai so much. They have the possibility of covering BOTH ends of the spectrum with the current line of portable computers (Force and current MPC line are basically small Linux computers). There's no reason for them to be so limited. There are enough buttons on the machine for tons of complex quick functionality and because it's a traditional computer at the core it could handle a lot more functionality on the screen and much more complex sequencing functions and editing.

The GOOD news is that the current iteration of AKAI as a company seems to be really keen on improving the current existing hardware. This is highly admirable and very much unlike the old AKAI where they'd just abandon things left and right. This is actually the only reason why I haven't ditched the product line yet and will hold on to my MPC Live and also keep watching the Akai Force threads. I'm hoping they finally realize themselves what they are sitting on and how much potential there is. It's like a giant that accidentally stumbled into a crowd of potential users and doesn't quite realize it.

The world has changed a lot lately. Analogue synths and external hardware are very much in vogue again. This means there's a huge market for a hardware central workstation system from whence all is controlled. This is the market many people were hoping the MPC Live and especially the MPC X with all it's lovely analogue CV outs would have tapped into. When these failed (due to being way too simplistic and half baked) people looked at the Force to fill this need.. only to realize it has the exact same limitations of the MPC line when it comes to the actual interfacing with external gear and lack of proper deeper sequencing and audio capabilities. It really is a shame.
So you want a modern DAW... but you want it in a single box? Why aren’t you just using a computer DAW again?
Old 17th April 2019
  #1352
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Well here is a wonderful update on life on the road with the Force:

Now my black startup screen happens every time, which means this machine is permanently unstable, few days before the two final shows of the tour. Goooooood stuff.
Old 17th April 2019
  #1353
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

The beta is still quite strong in this one.
Old 17th April 2019
  #1354
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HoPMiX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcadian View Post
Well here is a wonderful update on life on the road with the Force:

Now my black startup screen happens every time, which means this machine is permanently unstable, few days before the two final shows of the tour. Goooooood stuff.
reinstall the latest os update?
Old 17th April 2019
  #1355
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoPMiX View Post
reinstall the latest os update?
I havent installed it yet, seemed like a bad idea mid tour and it’s not making me comfortable right now, to be honest. I’m running through the set non-stop to make sure I can figure out how it breaks and when, but it’s pretty erratic...
Thoughts, prayers and tech support for this canary in the mine, folks!
Old 17th April 2019
  #1356
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starcadian View Post
I havent installed it yet, seemed like a bad idea mid tour and it’s not making me comfortable right now, to be honest. I’m running through the set non-stop to make sure I can figure out how it breaks and when, but it’s pretty erratic...
Thoughts, prayers and tech support for this canary in the mine, folks!
What happens if you disconnect the unit from _all_ connectors, not just the power, for 5-10 minutes? That trick not only fixes up any temporary madness of my laptop but also my Virus synth.

/C
Old 17th April 2019
  #1357
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
What happens if you disconnect the unit from _all_ connectors, not just the power, for 5-10 minutes? That trick not only fixes up any temporary madness of my laptop but also my Virus synth.

/C
That's a great suggestion, gonna try that next! For now I killed any samples that I can live without, in case it's the CPU/memory borking. Will update from the Chilling Adventures of Tour Life Season 1
Old 17th April 2019
  #1358
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
What happens if you disconnect the unit from _all_ connectors, not just the power, for 5-10 minutes? That trick not only fixes up any temporary madness of my laptop but also my Virus synth.

/C

Bah no dice, sadly. It SEEMS to function despite the blackout UI delay, but Im not convinced this is normal, maybe Dan @ xparis001 can help with this?
Old 17th April 2019
  #1359
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starcadian View Post
Bah no dice, sadly. It SEEMS to function despite the blackout UI delay, but Im not convinced this is normal, maybe Dan @ xparis001 can help with this?
I thought there was premium support available with InMusic for medium -major artists -have you logged a support case ?
Old 17th April 2019
  #1360
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xparis001's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcadian View Post
Bah no dice, sadly. It SEEMS to function despite the blackout UI delay, but Im not convinced this is normal, maybe Dan @ xparis001 can help with this?
honestly, it sounds like you have a hardware issue. Can you give our tech support a call? They can help with repairs / replacements. (401) 658-4032. feel free to mention this thread when you talk to them.
Old 17th April 2019
  #1361
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2ba View Post
I thought there was premium support available with InMusic for medium -major artists -have you logged a support case ?
I didn't even know about that, I'll look into it. Last I contacted tech support they took a week and a half and were not much help, but I'll give InMusic a try!
Old 17th April 2019
  #1362
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xparis001 View Post
honestly, it sounds like you have a hardware issue. Can you give our tech support a call? They can help with repairs / replacements. (401) 658-4032. feel free to mention this thread when you talk to them.
Thanks Dan, I just had a talk, it sounds like their unit also has about 5-8 seconds of black screen between the Force boot up logo and the Project Select screen and that is normal behavior? No info on the sound cutoff, that's happened a couple of times to me but is not really reproducible. I'm always leaving the option open that it's user error, but can't shake the feeling that something is funky :/
Can you at least confirm that the black screen isn't corellated to my unit doing something strange and that is the usual boot up behavior?
Thanks!
Old 17th April 2019
  #1363
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xparis001's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcadian View Post
Thanks Dan, I just had a talk, it sounds like their unit also has about 5-8 seconds of black screen between the Force boot up logo and the Project Select screen and that is normal behavior? No info on the sound cutoff, that's happened a couple of times to me but is not really reproducible. I'm always leaving the option open that it's user error, but can't shake the feeling that something is funky :/
Can you at least confirm that the black screen isn't corellated to my unit doing something strange and that is the usual boot up behavior?
Thanks!
every unit i've tested takes about 2-3 seconds after the force logo goes away to show the demo project screen. the units I've tried don't have internal drives, however so that might be why they're faster. the tech support units probably have internal SSDs.

if you could take a video, or send me any more details, that would be helpful. I'll Pm you my contact info.
Old 17th April 2019
  #1364
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xparis001's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xparis001 View Post
every unit i've tested takes about 2-3 seconds after the force logo goes away to show the demo project screen. the units I've tried don't have internal drives, however so that might be why they're faster. the tech support units probably have internal SSDs.

if you could take a video, or send me any more details, that would be helpful. I'll Pm you my contact info.
your PMs are disabled, but you can email me at my email
Old 17th April 2019
  #1365
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starcadian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xparis001 View Post
your PMs are disabled, but you can email me at [email protected]
Oh derp I didn't know I had to enable them sorry haha I'll email you asap thank you!
Old 17th April 2019
  #1366
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Sofine's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcadian View Post
Oh derp I didn't know I had to enable them sorry haha I'll email you asap thank you!
Sorry to hear that. If you were touring near me (Dublin) I'd lend you my force. Maybe there's some Slutz on your tour route who might consider helping out??? Hope it works out.
Old 17th April 2019
  #1367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
So you want a modern DAW... but you want it in a single box? Why aren’t you just using a computer DAW again?


Black and white.. always black and white. No nuance possible for some. No wonder these "lets just press a button and music happens" devices have an actual user base. Sigh..
Old 17th April 2019
  #1368
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post


Black and white.. always black and white. No nuance possible for some. No wonder these "lets just press a button and music happens" devices have an actual user base. Sigh..
Considering you admitted to never owning an OctaTrack, and you have such confident opinions about using one... I’m starting to believe you don’t own a Forve. Any videos of your tracks with Force? I’m guessing “no”

One fact is known... you are a judgmental asshole.
Bye Troll
Old 17th April 2019
  #1369
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Considering you admitted to never owning an OctaTrack, and you have such confident opinions about using one... I’m starting to believe you don’t own a Forve. Any videos of your tracks with Force? I’m guessing “no”

One fact is known... you are a judgmental asshole.
Bye Troll
I don't have to own every piece of gear to have extensive experience using one. And I thought it was already extremely clear that I do NOT have a Force but I have an MPC Live and I've used the Akai Force on two occasions over about 3 hours each (as I needed to see if it would fare better in the workstation role than my MPC Live. It didn't.. same issues with the Force basically). Due to the software being nearly identical it doesn't take a long time to learn.

.. and the thing just isn't all that complex to begin with.

I also happen to have more than 25 years of experience tweaking various hardware devices ranging from large format consoles to deep editing Kurzweil Kxxx series synths, modular monsters etc. It's not like I'm tinkering with tools for the first time ever.

YOU are the one who are being pretty rude here and just dismissing my long post where I addressed your counterpoints. So my last post to you was just in response to the clear trolling on your side.

You seem to be hurt by my opinion on the Force. Ain't my fault you can't take other peoples opinions and get offended by it enough to simply derail the debate (like you did with the "why don't you just get a DAW then?" silly response).

I stand by my opinion. The Akai Force is NOT recommended at all for main workstation duties. For MIDI sequencing "main centerpiece" of a bunch of external hardware the Elektron Octatrack is far more capable than the Force in my opinion. The only exception to this is if you do not need anything complex done. If you only want to trigger a few midi notes and send them in a chain to various devices then the Force is enough.. but that's about it.
Old 17th April 2019
  #1370
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
I don't have to own every piece of gear to have extensive experience using one. And I thought it was already extremely clear that I do NOT have a Force but I have an MPC Live and I've used the Akai Force on two occasions over about 3 hours each (as I needed to see if it would fare better in the workstation role than my MPC Live. It didn't.. same issues with the Force basically). Due to the software being nearly identical it doesn't take a long time to learn.

.. and the thing just isn't all that complex to begin with.

I also happen to have more than 25 years of experience tweaking various hardware devices ranging from large format consoles to deep editing Kurzweil Kxxx series synths, modular monsters etc. It's not like I'm tinkering with tools for the first time ever.

YOU are the one who are being pretty rude here and just dismissing my long post where I addressed your counterpoints. So my last post to you was just in response to the clear trolling on your side.

You seem to be hurt by my opinion on the Force. Ain't my fault you can't take other peoples opinions and get offended by it enough to simply derail the debate (like you did with the "why don't you just get a DAW then?" silly response).

I stand by my opinion. The Akai Force is NOT recommended at all for main workstation duties. For MIDI sequencing "main centerpiece" of a bunch of external hardware the Elektron Octatrack is far more capable than the Force in my opinion. The only exception to this is if you do not need anything complex done. If you only want to trigger a few midi notes and send them in a chain to various devices then the Force is enough.. but that's about it.
All this typing from a guy who doesn’t own a Force and never owned an OT. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t make it a fact.

OT is a crappy “main workstation” and should never be considered as a main studio hub... that’s my opinion, but I did own two of them for more than 5 years.

Anyone who buys a Force, or any single piece of hardware and expects full DAW “studio centerpiece” is doing t wrong imo.

You started making it personal my snide side-eye comments of clip launching and “simple” users.

Typical forum king without the gear... posting paragraphs of assumptions.
Old 18th April 2019
  #1371
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
All this typing from a guy who doesn’t own a Force and never owned an OT. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t make it a fact.

OT is a crappy “main workstation” and should never be considered as a main studio hub... that’s my opinion, but I did own two of them for more than 5 years.

Anyone who buys a Force, or any single piece of hardware and expects full DAW “studio centerpiece” is doing t wrong imo.

You started making it personal my snide side-eye comments of clip launching and “simple” users.

Typical forum king without the gear... posting paragraphs of assumptions.
You just love being toxic don't you?

You also keep forgetting why we are writing this in the first place. I simply gave my opinion to a dude who asked if it was worth selling the OT mk2 and getting the Force instead as a main MIDI sequencer for his external gear.

I gave my opinion on this and you responded.. to which I wrote a counter argument. Instead of then debating my counter arguments you just killed it with your silly response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
You started making it personal my snide side-eye comments of clip launching and “simple” users.
.. to which I wrote this as a remark that was meant to be sarcastic. It was exactly as side-eyed as your "get a DAW then duh?" comment. That was the whole point.. to highlight how silly your comment was. Sorry you missed it.. I thought it was rather clever.

Anyhow, there's nothing to be gained here. You can believe whatever you want about me.. I have zero need of trying to prove anything to you or anybody else. I'm just here to offer my opinion on whatever I feel like. In this case it was about Akai Force in a specific usage scenario (main midi sequencer).

Old 18th April 2019
  #1372
Lives for gear
Mods...
Old 18th April 2019
  #1373
Gear Maniac
Just remember that the cake is a lie.
Old 18th April 2019
  #1374
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

A quick question: does anyone know how to re-order the position of tracks / columns? If possible?

/C
Old 18th April 2019
  #1375
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Sofine's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
A quick question: does anyone know how to re-order the position of tracks / columns? If possible?

/C
I remember reading (possibly earlier in this thread) that there is no facility to position tracks however, through judicious use of copy, paste and delete you can probably achieve what you are looking for. I would guess that this workaround is more useful earlier on in your project - things could get pretty unwieldy the bigger your navigation space!
Old 18th April 2019
  #1376
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofine View Post
I remember reading (possibly earlier in this thread) that there is no facility to position tracks however, through judicious use of copy, paste and delete you can probably achieve what you are looking for. I would guess that this workaround is more useful earlier on in your project - things could get pretty unwieldy the bigger your navigation space!
Again - thanks for helping out. Copy/Paste it is then

/C
Old 18th April 2019
  #1377
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity14 View Post
It'll just be working with files and folders for now. It won't actually analyse the files to find the BPM either. The user sets the BPM on the command line and the program inserts the appropriate meta chunk with the BPM into the file . Since I don't know anything about DSP doing the BPM analysis would take weeks/months of learning about how to actually do that . Looking for the BPM in the INFO/BEXT/iXML data and setting it based on that would be a more likely potential next step.
Any news?
Old 18th April 2019
  #1378
Special Guest
 
starcadian's Avatar
 

On a random note, if you're looking for something other than a hard case for traveling, this backpack saved my life :

Setout Travel Backpack: The Carry On for City Travelers
– Tortuga


Fits the Force nicely, plus room for extra clothing,cables and other equipment AND is plane legal. Also holds up pretty well after a month on the road!
(Also it can get way flatter than the pictures show)
Old 18th April 2019
  #1379
Lives for gear
Anyone built a force into a biometric armour suit and embarked on secret missions whilst firing off appropriate 4-bar clips to match the moment?
Old 19th April 2019
  #1380
Gear Nut
 

FOR ANYONE USING PRO TOOLS TO ANALYSE FILES (Win 10, maybe Mac OS?)

The 'Calculate Elastic Analysis' only works AFTER you 'Update Index' in Workspace (under Windows heading).

E.g. Window>New Workspace>Default>then right-click and goto update index.

If you don't do this, it won't analyse your files.

You can only use Windows 10 or Mac OS to run Pro Tools, so you got 30-days to do it in...unless, you like Pro Tools - the crappiest DAW in the universe!

There's place in hell for that, right next to Apple Computer prices.

***UPDATE***

THIS DOES NOT WORK, I'VE YET TO SEE ANYONE PROVE IT WOKS ON A WINDOWS OS.


Why the CAPS? - I formatted a drive, got Windows 10 Pro, went through the malarkey of installing Pro Tools for absolutely no reason, I'm pissed.

The only way that appears to work (for sure) is with the MPC software, which would take ages with a reasonably sized library.
@ singularity14 "...you're my only hope!"

Last edited by nicethings; 19th April 2019 at 01:41 AM.. Reason: Update
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