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DUNE3: the Virus TI killer
Old 4 weeks ago
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
JUCE is primary UI framework and plugin wrapper, not DSP library (it has few DSP classes, but I doubt lot of developers, if any, use them). And neither Synapse nor U-He use JUCE. Sean from Valhalla uses JUCE, but his signal processing code is 100% custom developed.
I was told many times that JUCE was the culprit. Sounds like you know more than me about this topic. Thanks for the info!

I find most vsti’s sound same’y. Perhaps it’s in my head... not sure. But the Virus, Blofeld and the Nord lead 2X sound nothing like VSTi’s. I’m trying so hard to like ITB synths because the work flow is much easier to manage!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #212
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flippy Floppy View Post
What many people don’t know is that most VST synths are based off of the same basic building block code called JUCE.
You heard something about the JUCE framework , then you assumed you knew all about it , while in reality you have no clue what it even does .
Some of the best plugins out there use the JUCE framework , with all genuine code , cytomic is just one of the few
It amazes how some people have such a low standard when it comes to informing themselves
Prime example of complete ignorance at work
Old 4 weeks ago
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flippy Floppy View Post
I find most vsti’s sound same’y. Perhaps it’s in my head... not sure. But the Virus, Blofeld and the Nord lead 2X sound nothing like VSTi’s. I’m trying so hard to like ITB synths because the work flow is much easier to manage!!
Lot of them do sound samey to me as well. I (would take a wild) guess that using "cookbook" code should be to blame. Dune 3 is not among them, IMHO it is best sounding "workhorse" VA synth in plugin land. Not because of FX (I find those generic/mediocre sounding compared to standalone stuff), but because core oscillator/filter tone is stellar. Can't say how it compares to Virus, I've used Virus B but that was long time ago. On it's own merit, Dune 3 is really good.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
You heard something about the JUCE framework , then you assumed you knew all about it , while in reality you have no clue what it even does .
Some of the best plugins out there use the JUCE framework , with all genuine code , cytomic is just one of the few
It amazes how some people have such a low standard when it comes to informing themselves
Prime example of complete ignorance at work
I guess you didn’t read the part where I thanked someone for correcting me. such anger.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
Lot of them do sound samey to me as well. I (would take a wild) guess that using "cookbook" code should be to blame. Dune 3 is not among them, IMHO it is best sounding "workhorse" VA synth in plugin land. Not because of FX (I find those generic/mediocre sounding compared to standalone stuff), but because core oscillator/filter tone is stellar. Can't say how it compares to Virus, I've used Virus B but that was long time ago. On it's own merit, Dune 3 is really good.
I’ll have to dig deeper into Dune 3
Old 4 weeks ago
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatLife View Post
hmm, yeah Dune 3 is clear but and rich sounding - that i think better than Virus, if we go with Saw/Supersaw for example..
Well, it's about tastes, but I don't really like Dune for supersaws. It sounds ok but i think Sylenth, Spire, Rapid and now Massive X do better job, though hypersaw and global unison in TI do sound very cool. There are other sounds where Dune 3 really shines, it can combine FM and wavetables with very high quality analog filters and has very smooth and accurate modulations, I think this is where it actually outdoes Virus. Unlike many I like Virus filters, they have their own character, but where you need more analog-like filter behaviour (all these tasty sweeps, filter FM and such) Dune3 is far better.

I mean if Dune3 were my only synth capable of supersaws I would get away with that but we are so spoiled for choice these days

Of course Virus is a digital synth but not all digital synths sound the same, compare Repro with some old Synthedit VA. I think it sounds so special because it is how the sound engine was coded and tuned, not because it's hardware. Whether it sounds better or worse than any given software synth is nothing more than a matter of tastes. It's true that Virus character to this day hasn't been copied at 100% by any software synth, however synths like Massive X, Viper, Spire, Rapid (but not Dune3, IMO) may come really close and would barely be distinguishable in a mix.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recursion loop View Post
Well, it's about tastes, but I don't really like Dune for supersaws. It sounds ok but i think Sylenth, Spire, Rapid and now Massive X do better job, though hypersaw and global unison in TI do sound very cool. There are other sounds where Dune 3 really shines, it can combine FM and wavetables with very high quality analog filters and has very smooth and accurate modulations, I think this is where it actually outdoes Virus. Unlike many I like Virus filters, they have their own character, but where you need more analog-like filter behaviour (all these tasty sweeps, filter FM and such) Dune3 is far better.

I mean if Dune3 were my only synth capable of supersaws I would get away with that but we are so spoiled for choice these days

Of course Virus is a digital synth but not all digital synths sound the same, compare Repro with some old Synthedit VA. I think it sounds so special because it is how the sound engine was coded and tuned, not because it's hardware. Whether it sounds better or worse than any given software synth is nothing more than a matter of tastes. It's true that Virus character to this day hasn't been copied at 100% by any software synth, however synths like Massive X, Viper, Spire, Rapid (but not Dune3, IMO) may come really close and would barely be distinguishable in a mix.
If we talking about sound comparing Supersaw/Saw(my fav. sound), may i give you some of my own examples? (i use Dune 3, Spire and Massive from ur list). It's of course wasnt a special sound compares demos, it's about the soundpacks, but i always doing Saw/Supersaw sounds for every synth, that i have and use.

1. Dune 3 (clear Supersaw) - https://youtu.be/3JlyGqCv96Y?t=42
2. Dune 3 (maximum oscillators) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jly...youtu.be&t=147

3. Massive X (Supersaw with some little noisy) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLn...=youtu.be&t=32 There some more Saw's in the demo

4. Spire - https://youtu.be/DZ_d9XcZE6c?t=371
Actually i don't think that Spire can do such clear supersaw, but it can anyhow.

and if we talking about Supersaw sound, i think that Hive here is one of the best too.

5. Hive 2 - https://youtu.be/7LsQSkQK2X4?t=141 , more Saw's and till the end of the demo
6. Hive - https://youtu.be/B-Ymuhx-kMA?t=435, and in the whole demo
7. Hive - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl2E...=youtu.be&t=12, and in the whole demo.

SO my personal chart of the best Supersaw synth(it's almost same for all sounds too - imho):

1. Dune 3
2. Hive
3/4. Hive 2
(i dunno why, it same synths but somehow i like Saw more in the first version), Massive X.
5. Spire.

I don't have a Virus TI, but i perfectly know how it sounds, from my friends, plus i produced alot of Trance music before, and alot of people who i know - used Virus A, B, C, TI. So i can put Virus somewhere between 3-5 position.
Also if we talk about Supersaw, we can't forget about Roland Jp 8000 of course In this compare i can put it between 1-3 positions, i feel it more better for Supersaw sounds, but overall Virus is much better than Roland JP 8000 in the most other sounds.
And don't blame me plz, it's all my own opinion from the big expirience of using synths and producing Trance music You can have a different one)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatLife View Post
And don't blame me plz, it's all my own opinion from the big expirience of using synths and producing Trance music You can have a different one)
Yes, exactly. I was only talking about my preferences. There are many very cabable synths these days so we have the pleasure to choose whatever synth we like the most for a specific task.

Dune has a lot of unison modes, but they all tend to sound muddy or plasticky, it takes some tinkering to avoid that. It's possible to make a nice supersaw with some effort but in Spire you get the right sound just by setting the right voices amount and detune/density.

Not to mention that the supersaw is only a very small fraction of what Dune3, Virus and Spire can do. I love Virus for various metallic/industrial/sci-fi textures, FM sounds and the like.

I mostly make psytrance/progressive and such, though I may put a classic supersaw arpeggio into a track every now and then
Old 4 weeks ago
  #219
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recursion loop View Post
Dune has a lot of unison modes, but they all tend to sound muddy or plasticky, it takes some tinkering to avoid that. It's possible to make a nice supersaw with some effort but in Spire you get the right sound just by setting the right voices amount and detune/density.
Just vice versa for me) I always felt that Spire sounds a bit plasticky, and when i first time heard Dune, i was shocked how clear and how panoramic this synth sounds, just amazing, so for me it's number one
Old 4 weeks ago
  #220
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I've spent a couple of hours with Hive2 demo yesterday, mostly trying various wavetable scanning and sequenced stuff, and I was very surprised that it can sound quite close to the TI. It has that gritty organic vibe reminiscent of the 00's psytrance sound, think Protoculture, Silicon Sound, Andromeda and such. Still misses quite a few things compared to the TI, like global unison, FM and osc sync, vowel filters, wavetable FX, pre-filter distortion (and there are much fewer distortion modes overall), but there are some wavetables with FM and formants "embedded" so this may somehow be compensated.

It apepars that now in 2019 we finally can have most of the Virus TI sounds ITB with convincingly similar character - Spire, Massive X, Viper, Parawave Rapid, Sylenth and now Hive2 would be my first choices for Virusy sounds.

As for Dune3, i actually think most of its appeal comes from the multi-layered presets and the effects, if you stip it all down it has quite basic and characterless sound, a bit thin. Anyway, as a general purpose workhorse synth it's quite good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NatLife View Post
2. Hive
3/4. Hive 2[/B] (i dunno why, it same synths but somehow i like Saw more in the first version)
I think Urs said the sound wasn't changed at all, they just added wavetables and some modulations.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #221
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recursion loop View Post
I've spent a couple of hours with Hive2 demo yesterday, mostly trying various wavetable scanning and sequenced stuff, and I was very surprised that it can sound quite close to the TI. It has that gritty organic vibe reminiscent of the 00's psytrance sound, think Protoculture, Silicon Sound, Andromeda and such. Still misses quite a few things compared to the TI, like global unison, FM and osc sync, vowel filters, wavetable FX, pre-filter distortion (and there are much fewer distortion modes overall), but there are some wavetables with FM and formants "embedded" so this may somehow be compensated.

It apepars that now in 2019 we finally can have most of the Virus TI sounds ITB with convincingly similar character - Spire, Massive X, Viper, Parawave Rapid, Sylenth and now Hive2 would be my first choices for Virusy sounds.

As for Dune3, i actually think most of its appeal comes from the multi-layered presets and the effects, if you stip it all down it has quite basic and characterless sound, a bit thin. Anyway, as a general purpose workhorse synth it's quite good.



I think Urs said the sound wasn't changed at all, they just added wavetables and some modulations.
yeah i know that sound wasnt changed at all, but filters was...maybe it gives a different effect i don't know, maybe i need more time for producing more sounds on it, and compare.
It's what ive done so far with a Hive 2


But you right about that Hive 2 pretty close to Virus with a character. Thats why i think it's sounds different from the first version, Hive 1 for me sounds like JP 8000, Hive 2 - like boosted JP = Virus TI)
Old 14 hours ago
  #222
Diva does the trance sounds best, then system 8, then dune 3. Dune 3 does wicked bass with the analog filters, i mean better than diva even. There is no jp8000 vst, like there is no virus ti vst. There isnt, those synths have their own sound.

df

Last edited by Disease Factory; 8 hours ago at 12:48 AM..
Old 10 hours ago
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatLife View Post
yeah i know that sound wasnt changed at all, but filters was...maybe it gives a different effect i don't know, maybe i need more time for producing more sounds on it, and compare.
It's what ive done so far with a Hive 2


But you right about that Hive 2 pretty close to Virus with a character. Thats why i think it's sounds different from the first version, Hive 1 for me sounds like JP 8000, Hive 2 - like boosted JP = Virus TI)
Doesn't really sound like a Virus to me. I've tried Hive, but it was too harsh and bright for my taste. A Virus sounds a lot smoother and warmer.
Old 10 hours ago
  #224
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthio View Post
Doesn't really sound like a Virus to me. I've tried Hive, but it was too harsh and bright for my taste. A Virus sounds a lot smoother and warmer.
It's just a nowadays needs - be more bright and harsh, if you will cut off High EQ in Hive u will see that it will sounds more smooth like Virus)
Just check - most if not all synths from the past sounds more smooth, and same new hardwares synths sounds bright and harsh - just look at new Roland Fantom, at new Korg Prologue, Yamaha Modx.
Old 8 hours ago
  #225
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Vectorman's Avatar
 

For me, out of current software, Massive X is the one that I've found myself going to for a lot of the classes of sounds for which I was mostly using the TI prior. But there is still no "Virus killer" for me exactly, because it still has its own character with which some other synths intersect to some degree or other but which none of them truly duplicates.
Old 7 hours ago
  #226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectorman View Post
For me, out of current software, Massive X is the one that I've found myself going to for a lot of the classes of sounds for which I was mostly using the TI prior. But there is still no "Virus killer" for me exactly, because it still has its own character with which some other synths intersect to some degree or other but which none of them truly duplicates.
Massive X sounds awesome, especially when i add 3 more osc. whoa.. it gets there. But, dune 3 filters are a tad better i must admit, but massive x filters are not horrid by any stretch..

DF
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