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Behringer and Roland reissues: What would you buy? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Behringer and Roland reissues: What would you buy?

Just out of interest, what would you buy if Roland would release reissues of their classic 80's collection. No digital emulations but real reissues, same look, same PCBs, same components. Price let's say 4 times as much as Behringer sells the clones, so let's say 1200$ for a 909, a real one, new. Won't happen but curious :>
Old 1 week ago
  #2
I would buy a Jupiter 6 w midi cc mod like the Europa version I used to have in a heartbeat. If they could do it for $1000 or less it would really be a hot seller. The JP6 has come to be way more appreciated in recent years. It is one of the most modern and exciting vco synths. It can also have the way for them to make a more expensive Jupiter 8.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Head
 

I'd pay 900 for a Roland analog 909 reissue any other price would be wrong.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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I would crack open the piggy bank to buy a G-77 and a G-707 reissue, for sho. Other stuff I don’t know how much I would care about an “as is” remake.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Gear Head
 

I wouldn't buy a 808 or a 909, since Roland actually did an OK job at emulating them digitally, unlike the rest of the "boutiques". I would definitely buy an analogue Jupiter 8 around 2000 bucks or a Juno-60 at 1000 if they are perfect clones.

The problem with Roland is that they are not into small batches, and while vintage prices are through the roof, it doesn't mean that they could sell 30,000 of these because there is not necessary a mass market at these prices.

Or said another way just because some people who want a Jupiter 8 now are ready to pay 10,000 bucks for a vintage copy doesn't mean there are 30,000 people out there ready to shelve 3,000 bucks for a re-issue. That's basically why until now Roland exploited vintage fame essentially for marketing purposes instead of actually producing brand new copies.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
I'd probably be willing to drop a grand on an updated reissue of the Jupiter 4, SH-1000, or RS-202. The SH-101 too, if we weren't already getting an improved replica.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Nut
 

What I can not understand is how come Behringer can do it and wants to do it (make analog clones) but Roland either can not or does not want to make analog. Is Roland not a multinational? Is Behringer really that much better positioned and vertically integrated?
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
I would buy a Jupiter 6 w midi cc mod like the Europa version I used to have in a heartbeat. If they could do it for $1000 or less it would really be a hot seller. The JP6 has come to be way more appreciated in recent years. It is one of the most modern and exciting vco synths. It can also have the way for them to make a more expensive Jupiter 8.
Or a fair priced Jupiter 8.....
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sds1fs1r View Post
What I can not understand is how come Behringer can do it and wants to do it (make analog clones) but Roland either can not or does not want to make analog. Is Roland not a multinational? Is Behringer really that much better positioned and vertically integrated?
It's very easy to explain. The classic Rolands are not products but brands. If Roland were to issue 1:1 recreations they will have a stellar 12 months but then what? Nothing. This is why there will never be a perfect recreation of any of them, they're thinking in long term interest of the company.

You may argue Korg are able to do it which is a fair point but the MS20/Odyssey are nothing on the TR/TB range.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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time_zone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
I wouldn't buy a 808 or a 909, since Roland actually did an OK job at emulating them digitally, unlike the rest of the "boutiques".
I agree with you re: the 808/909 Boutiques (actually to me they are more than ok). But I also think that the SH01A is a great unit: handling/UI is fine, and the sound is just there ... Not to mention the additional functionalities Roland threw in. A little jewel imo.

Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Boog-like format/desktop SH-101 and Jupiter 4.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Anything from Behringer is no go for me so Roland all the way.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
...

Last edited by Mr Knoch; 1 week ago at 02:20 PM.. Reason: Thread starter does not really want an answer. I fell for it.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Gear Addict
 

V-Synth 3, S-880 or SP-999
Old 1 week ago
  #15
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thanks to the mod for changing the thread title before it has even been published. Is every thread with the word "behringer" now inspected before being published? I'd never call a Behringer clone "reissue" unless they clone something which they actually did on their own like the BCR2000 lol

this thread is more out of interested, if people would still buy for example 300$ 909 from behringer if Roland would reissue (and yes, I mean reissue) their legacy instruments for 3 or 4 times the price.. You'd have a real 909 in front of you for 1200$ which people are now selling for 3k+.. on the other hand you'd safe 900$ buying behringer, but it's behringer.. what do you think? ^^
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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A.I. Batule Chee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
It's very easy to explain. The classic Rolands are not products but brands. If Roland were to issue 1:1 recreations they will have a stellar 12 months but then what? Nothing. This is why there will never be a perfect recreation of any of them, they're thinking in long term interest of the company.

You may argue Korg are able to do it which is a fair point but the MS20/Odyssey are nothing on the TR/TB range.
Sh!t, I never thought it like that! That’s the reason of course! They’ve certainly milked their legacy like crazy, what would it be if them when there’s nothin left? Fantom reissues?
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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DJRAZZ's Avatar
 

+1 on a V-synth 3. They need to incorporate the V-synth XT with the built in vocal thing and D-50. Also they should give the V some scaled down JDXA stuff and maybe even a dozen or so super natural sounds. Charge $1999. Instant buy!!! Give it the same build quality as the original V.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
WDM
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WDM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.I. Batule Chee View Post
Sh!t, I never thought it like that! That’s the reason of course! They’ve certainly milked their legacy like crazy, what would it be if them when there’s nothin left? Fantom reissues?
funny you've mentioned Fantom. Lets wait for 20 years from now and I am sure the Fantom Crying Widows (a la Jupiter 8) would be all over internet.

As for reissues, I am totally in Boutique camp. I'd love to see a Boutique Pro (slightly bigger) kinda line. Some roland products are just much more complex than 303 or 808. So, for those like Jupiter 8, ... Boutique Pro would be a better fit.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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A.I. Batule Chee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
funny you've mentioned Fantom. Lets wait for 20 years from now and I am sure the Fantom Crying Widows (a la Jupiter 8) would be all over internet.
Nah! That would be the V-Synth
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Jupiter 4 Module $2800 USD
MPE
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
I would buy a Jupiter 6 w midi cc mod like the Europa version I used to have in a heartbeat. If they could do it for $1000 or less it would really be a hot seller. The JP6 has come to be way more appreciated in recent years. It is one of the most modern and exciting vco synths. It can also have the way for them to make a more expensive Jupiter 8.
why not jupiter 6 with europe +++ and jupiter 8 with groove ultra in a housing for under 500 on the side each a 303 and a sh5 and 7
system 700 as a table and a few ce1 to rummage around

what did roland do for reissues?
the vsynth re-release is not possible any more .. the technique has been lost forever .. people are now working for casio
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
If Roland would re-issue the Jupiter 8 (don't laugh too hard) with the same build quality, materials and sound of the original, I would easily pay the same price as the 16 voice Moog One.
You just need to convinceRoland that there is a market for more than just a handful of buyers in that price bracket.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
I’d like a JX-3P, SH-09, or SH-2000 (with updated controls and easier editing and a more modern interface). I’d also love a sub-$1,000 Jupiter-4 or Jupiter-8 would be on my list too. I also would want a JX-8P or JX-10, Alpha Juno-3 and RS-09 or RS-505 reissue.

For Behringer, Uli, I’d love to see you release
Matrix-12
Jupiter-8
Multimoog
Polymoog
Voyetra 8
ARP Quadra
SH-1000
SH-2000
CZ-1
HT-700 with more patches and patch storage and more editing options
CS-80
CS-15
SY-77
DX7
DX-100
ARP Axxe
Steiner-Parker Synthacon
EML-101
SH-5
SX-1000
JP-8000
And an arranger keyboard based on the Technics arranger keyboards (preferably KN-5000 or KN-7000 with a lot of styles onboard, especially Asian and European styles since I see a lot of your gear in some Asian music videos, particularly a guy named Kak Nunuk who has an awesome Behringer midi keyboard).
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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shreddoggie's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by COMMODORE404 View Post
I'd pay 900 for a Roland analog 909 reissue any other price would be wrong.
NO. No no no no no - You are wrong... wrong wrong WRONG.
The correct price for a 909 is $909 - its what I paid for mine back in the day and it is what a reissue should cost.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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string6theory's Avatar
For Roland, all I’d be (personally) interested in is a killer all analog, VCO-based mono and poly that bring back those “tried and true” Roland analog sonics, with some modern enhancements, like digital control, etc. That’s it.


As for Behringer... design, engineer and implement your own unique, all analog, VCO-based poly and mono synths. All the Moog, OB and Prophet based clones and copies are more of a sales deterrent, for me personally. I find his whole approach up until now more off putting and distasteful, rather than interesting and appealing. But, then I also grew up with a reverence and respect for those big 3 synth maestros - as they’ve earned it many times over - and which seems completely abscent from Behringer’s being, despite his perpetually proclaimed love of synths - which includes the synths these maestros respectfully made there names on, both literally and figuratively.

Where’s his love and publicly expressed and conveyed reverence and respect for these synth maestros, like Bob Moog, Tom Oberheim and Dave Smith, the designs of whom he’s raiding with impunity? It’s nonexistent, afaict. Ask yourself why that is. The answer reveals a lot about the kind of person he is, imo. YMMV.


Old 1 week ago
  #26
I got no problem buying Behringer stuff at this point. I love old Roland. I can’t stand new Roland. Not only do they repeatedly make half-assed redos of the machines people love and have been asking for but they make them terrible to look at (tr-8). At this point I refuse to give them money out of principle. I love my sh101 and I love my Juno 106, proper machines.
Kudos to Behringer for picking it up. I’m not really interested in much they have going on as my setup is pretty solid for my needs but I AM very excited about their 909 clone, and at the price they are quoting I will definitely pick one up. 909 from Roland for 900$ cha?!? In what, a black plastic case with rainbow lights all over it? Ha, never
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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ToneKontrol's Avatar
 

I'm a Roland fan (of their older stuff anyhow), let's see..

I've owned the following Roland synths (in rough date release order) over the past 10/20 years (all bought used), many of them multiple times.

SH-2
Juno 6
Juno 60
JX-3P
SH-101
Juno 106
Alpha Juno 1
Alpha Juno 2
MKS-50
JX-8P
MKS-70
D-50
JD-800
JD-990
JV-1080
JP-8000
V-Synth
JD-XA

Of those the only ones I'd be interested in picking up again (if I didn't still already own.. which I do) are:

SH-2
JX-3P
JD-800
and maybe a much improved (analog/keyboard wise) JD-XA with a bit better analog engine.

The thing is these are on ebay cheap enough already, the more expensive ones like Juno 60 which is a fine synth but very limited doesn't hold much interest for me again having owned so many Junos, so I wouldn't buy a Roland re-issue nor a B-type (i.e DM12 or similar). JX-3P has something quite unique and cool sounding which I've alwys loved, SH-2 and JD-800 just sound great. As said, they are on ebay cheap enough still.

Now, of the Roland's I've never owned that I'd like to buy??

Only the Jupiter 8. And that would only be if it was at a sane price (I'd neve pay $15k that some ask these days...). Not into 4 voice polys of the otherwise great sounding JP-4, and I'm not fan of the tone of the Jupiter 6 much so.... meh. I've already got my favourite Roland Mono (SH-2) and not really interested in their older systems or any of their other monos.

V-Synth was interesting but they go for cheap on ebay, I had the original keyboard with D-50 and Voice card (so same as XT basically), it was interesting but nothing needing a re-issue because... ebay. V-Synth 3? Maybe that could be interesting but would take a lot of improvements and need to keep the price in check, can't see it happening and I probably would just buy a cheap original for that stuff I was desperate for it (which I'm not).

JD-XA was cool, fun, but ultimately missing something in the analog sound and didn't feel cohesive as an instrument (and had stupid keybed).

So I guess what I'm saying is I'm only interested in either a Jupiter 8 (Roland or B-Type inspired from thing) OR a brand new VCO analog poly that fits half way between the spec of the Prophet 6 and the Moog One but under $3k (roland could do that). 8 voice is fine, even 6 voice is it's amazing tone and beautifully built. Don't sacrifice user experience, bugs and tone just to cram 16 vcos in...

...isn't it weird how every common 16 voice VCO synth in a keyboard in modern times has had issues (Andromeda, Prologue and Moog One), not saying it's because of the voice count but some seem so focused on polyphony they lose sight of great tone and solid reliability!

6/8 voice is more than good enough for me, and many. I can layer in the DAW if needs be, and if sounded great it wouldn't need to rely on layers to dress it up anyway!

If Roland could guarantee a great base tone on future VCO poly with modern improvements/features, I'd obviously prefer that over a simple Jupiter 8 re-issue. I do think it should be called Jupiter X or something though, just like sequential have used the Prophet branding (quite) well.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
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Hazmatic's Avatar
I'd take an SH-2 and a Jupiter 6.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneKontrol View Post

...isn't it weird how every common 16 voice VCO synth in a keyboard in modern times has had issues (Andromeda, Prologue and Moog One), not saying it's because of the voice count but some seem so focused on polyphony they lose sight of great tone and solid reliability!

6/8 voice is more than good enough for me, and many. I can layer in the DAW if needs be, and if sounded great it wouldn't need to rely on layers to dress it up anyway!

If Roland could guarantee a great base tone on future VCO poly with modern improvements/features, I'd obviously prefer that over a simple Jupiter 8 re-issue. I do think it should be called Jupiter X or something though, just like sequential have used the Prophet branding (quite) well.
so what did you think of the base tone of the Prologue (ignoring any technical problems for a minute) ?
Old 1 week ago
  #30
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Given they sound exactly the same I would probably still pay more for Roland 1:1 true reissues of the 909 or 808 if I was buying, but not 3 or 4 times what Behringer is asking, no way. I guess I'd be willing to pay more for a Roland 1:1 true reissue of say the Jupiter 8 than a not quite there version from Behringer. Not to say I don't think Behringer could do it right or even surpass the original. I'm not overly interested in the Jupiter 8, but among the classic Roland synths, it's the one I see as the least limited and the one where I would concider a reissue without any extras. But probably not.

I'd be more interested in a Jupiter 6 reissue that had variable levels for the different waveforms and added a realtime sequencer, another multimode filter, syncable LFO's and some modulatable digital effects. You know, in 2018 And you never know, but I'd be betting my money on Behringer doing this before Roland to put it that way.

I probably wouldn't sneeze at a 16 voice Jupiter 4 with the Promars features either. It would need to have a sequencer though. I just can't stand the idea anymore of big keyboards taking up space without a proper onboard sequencer as it means either too much running around or too many sequencers that also takes up space and must be thoughtfully placed as close and ergonomically as possible to the synth I'm operating.

Actually this is the main reason why I'm not into vintage synths anymore and so not unexpanded reissues either. I love the way they sound, but I'd like to be able to jam out on a piece of gear without the need for integrating other stuff from the get go. I end up spending more time thinking, planning and setting up the gear than using it. I'm not a fan of step only sequencers that can only be used for special effects if you're not into Kraftwerk either.

I also like to be able to save and recall my sequences along with my patches. It's a convenience thing in a way, but I'm happy with the sounds I get from modern gear for the most part anyway, and I need MIDI syncable delay and modulation for most of what I like to do. I can live with a great sounding mono or two without any of these things but that's about it.

I understand the desire for reissues to sound right and even spot on, but as long as extra features aren't changing the core sound, slowing down workflow or otherwise ruining the user experience I don't really see the problem. But that's me.
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