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Moog versus Rev2 Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 6 days ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Moog versus Rev2

If a Moog Sub 37 is essentially the same as Prophet REV2 but a moog is monophonic. Why would i want to have a Moog? What are the advantages of a Moog Sub 37 over a Rev2?
Old 6 days ago
  #2
Gear Head
 

VSTs are better because they make the most notes save yourself $$$$
Old 6 days ago
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Old 6 days ago
  #4
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because Gary Busey
Old 5 days ago
  #5
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CathodeRay's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lectrojape View Post
because Gary Busey
That has to be the most valid and plausible reason there is , i tip my hat to you sir!
Old 5 days ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Its a serious questioN! I'm trying to get my hands on a second had synth here in the Netherlands. They don't sell a lot of them so it will be a coincedence if i encounter a Rev2 or a Moog!

Is the Rev2 just better then a Moog Sub 37 in most aspects?
Old 5 days ago
  #7
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Yoozer's Avatar
Just because they cost about the same doesn't mean you can compare them. If that were the case, why even bother with the Rev2 when you can have far more voices for less on a Yamaha MODX?

A Sub 37 has VCOs, a Rev2 has DCOs. The filters sound different.

It's a matter of spending money. For every voice, modulation routes, filters and whatnot have to be duplicated. In the past, it'd mean that monophonic synths would either be cheaper or have more modulation routings available. Consider a Jupiter 8 - it only has one LFO. An ARP Odyssey has more (and more exotic) modulation options.

Is this going to be your first synth ever? Get the Rev2.

Is this going to be your first hardware synth ever? Get the Rev2.

Is this going to be your second synth and you already have a polyphonic unit? Consider the Sub 37. Chances are that you wouldn't be asking that question at this point.

Why monophonic synths? Well, because they're pretty awesome. Just don't treat 'm as a synthetic piano. See 'm more as trumpets or saxophones or something like that.

The best way to find out is to compare in person. KeyMusic and Bax should have both of 'm, so visit them and try them out. You're likely to be close to one of the stores. Otherwise, reserve a day's time for it.

The fact that you have to ask this question is not bad, but don't buy anything without trying it first. The Rev2 is still pretty new, but Synthforum.nl might have 'm popping up from time to time. I've seen several Sub37s there at least.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Gear Addict
 

I've only tooled around with them in stores and listened to demos, but I find them to be great at what they do. Sub is a great monosynth and bass synth, Rev 2 is a great poly. Sub seems more aggressive to me, and Rev2 is smoother and slicker. I don't think you'll be disappointed either way, just figure our if you need a mono synth or a poly synth.
Old 5 days ago
  #9
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinevos View Post
Is the Rev2 just better then a Moog Sub 37 in most aspects?
Very different synths with very different sound and purpose IMHO, there is no better. Both are tools, so the question is do you need a beefy mono synth or a multi voiced poly synth?

The Moog is an all analog mono signal path synth and has that big full sound with the famous ladder filter and killer overdrive with an analogue input to drive drums, bass, and guitar into it and process. Moog is a beefy aggressive mono sounding synth.

The Rev2 is a hybrid analog/digital poly synth synth with tons of control, built in efx, and Curtis filter. The Rev2 has no analogue input to process other audio through it. Rev2 is a brighter smoother sounding stereo poly synth.

There is no better, in fact they fit together perfectly.

If it was me.... I would grab a Subsequent 37 first if you have VSTi's like Omnisphere and need the beefy analog basses, SFX, and driving leads that digital can't duplicate, hmmmmm that was me and what I did, lol. Also remember that processing audio through the Subsequent 37 seriously adds to its value for me, and most never discuss that ability.

If you have limited software I would go Rev2 first as it will cover more ground.

To each their own.

Last edited by Will The Weirdo; 5 days ago at 06:27 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Very different synths with very different sound and purpose IMHO, there is no better. Both are tools, so the question is do you need a beefy mono synth or a multi voiced poly synth?

The Moog is an all analog mono signal path synth and has that big full sound with the famous ladder filter and killer overdrive with an analogue input to drive drums, bass, and guitar into it and process. Moog is a beefy aggressive mono sounding synth.

The Rev2 is a hybrid analog/digital poly synth synth with tons of control, built in efx, and Curtis filter. The Rev2 has no analogue input to process other audio through it. Rev2 is a brighter smoother sounding stereo poly synth.

There is no better, in fact they fit together perfectly.

If it was me.... I would grab a Subsequent 37 first if you have VSTi's like Omnisphere and need the beefy analog basses, SFX, and driving leads that digital can't duplicate, hmmmmm that was me and what I did, lol. Also remember that processing audio through the Subsequent 37 seriously adds to its value for me, and most never discuss that ability.

If you have limited software I would go Rev2 first as it will cover more ground.

To each their own.
The oscillators and filter in the Rev 2 are analogue. DCO's don't mean digital oscs.
Old 5 days ago
  #11
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft View Post
The oscillators and filter in the Rev 2 are analogue. DCO's don't mean digital oscs.
The Rev2 is a HYBRID analogue/digital synth, you may want to do more research.
Old 5 days ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
The Rev2 is a HYBRID analogue/digital synth, you may want to do more research.
The signal path for the Rev 2 is analogue. So is an analogue synth.

Prophet x , Pro 2 and prophet 12 are considered HYBRID as they use a mix of digital oscillators and analogue filters.

You might want to do some research.
Old 5 days ago
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinevos View Post
Its a serious questioN! I'm trying to get my hands on a second had synth here in the Netherlands. They don't sell a lot of them so it will be a coincedence if i encounter a Rev2 or a Moog!

Is the Rev2 just better then a Moog Sub 37 in most aspects?
1. Go into store
2. Play synths
3. Buy the one you like the most

No one can really offer you advice between these two other than its personal taste for whatever it is you're trying to achieve

That is assuming you're not a troll. Otherwise detune the rev2 and sub37 than what??
Old 5 days ago
  #14
Gear Nut
This is just one person's attempt to explain the reasons why I think the Moog costs about the same. From an aesthetic angle, I'm more of a "player" than a "programmer," so many of my judgments are based around physical real-time control and responses. I own a Prophet 08 (largely the same guts as the Rev 2) and a Subsequent 37. The Moog sounds very very very different.

If you primarily want a synth that does solo mono lines, the Moog has a lot more options--the 6dB and 12dB filters on the Moog can go into a sweet "buzzy" resonant spot that you probably can't get in the Sequential line outside of the OB6. The Rev2 12dB filter can't go even close to self-resonance.

The filter on the Moog has a more dynamic response to playing or filter; I find that it's much less "static" sounding for smooth and sustained melodic passages. It also has a sweeter sweep across the range.

If you work the filter on the Moog with a foot pedal the interaction is basically like an outstanding and highly configurable wah pedal. The Rev2 filter sounds nothing like this; I personally never use a foot pedal with the Rev2.

There's also the possibility to overdrive the filter on the Moog which may or may not be to your taste, but certainly sounds better in a mix with a live bass and drums compared to the Prophet. I've played with the distortion on the Rev2 and it's not at all the same; not as snarly or raw.

Performance wise, the Moog just feels a little more solid. I like the layout on it much better and the preset management on the Moog is a lot easier for me (buttons versus dialing through many options), but that's completely outside of sound and may not matter as much for your purposes.

Just to reiterate, though, the Rev2 is an excellent synth and if you want to play polyphonic there's obviously no comparison. The Rev2 is extremely capable in the deep programming department. Both have their niches are no more "better" or "worse" overall than a saxophone is better or worse than a piano.
Old 5 days ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
The Rev2 is a HYBRID analogue/digital synth, you may want to do more research.
You might want to to as you're completely wrong. Everything that is digital on the Rev2 is also digital on the Sub 37, so either both are hybrids or neither are.
Old 5 days ago
  #16
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by haze015 View Post
You might want to to as you're completely wrong. Everything that is digital on the Rev2 is also digital on the Sub 37, so either both are hybrids or neither are.
Everything that passes through the signal chain on the Rev2 is analog and voltage controlled (oscillators, filters, amp), but the oscillator frequencies are digitally controlled. The Subs have voltage controlled oscillators as well as the rest of the analog signal path. I don't know if that has a huge influence on the sound to be honest, but it is a difference between the two. The other DSI synths like the Prophet 6 and OB 6 are VCOs.

Other than that, there are a lot of digital guts in both (LFOs, envelopes, MIDI implementation, memory).
Old 5 days ago
  #17
Quote:
If a Moog Sub 37 is essentially the same as Prophet REV2 but a moog is monophonic...
That sentence is wrong.

It is like mistaking bass for guitar, tympani for drums, piano with organ. Similar in some ways, but the difference is significant... as some of the above posts show.

Polyphonic ≠ duophonic / monophonic. DIFFERENT synths. Different kinds of synths; there's no real chording on a duophonic, so if pads matter you'll be looking at the Rev2. But if playing lead/bass matters more you'll be better off with a Sub37 imo (i'd take the rev2 16 voice to replace my mopho/tetra but that's me).

Figure out what you want to do in your music. Choosing between Sub37 or Rev2 should be an easy question once you know what your music needs and/or where your interest lies.
Old 5 days ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopy View Post
Everything that passes through the signal chain on the Rev2 is analog and voltage controlled (oscillators, filters, amp), but the oscillator frequencies are digitally controlled. The Subs have voltage controlled oscillators as well as the rest of the analog signal path. I don't know if that has a huge influence on the sound to be honest, but it is a difference between the two. The other DSI synths like the Prophet 6 and OB 6 are VCOs.

Other than that, there are a lot of digital guts in both (LFOs, envelopes, MIDI implementation, memory).
The Sub 37 still has aspects that I presume are digitally implemented in its VCOs, such as beat frequency and phase reset.
In either case, what is generating the sound is analogue and the rest of the signal path is analogue. The DSI Pro 2, Prophet 12, X, Tempest are all hybrids as sounds are generated digitally (Or some are, or are samples), before passing through an analogue signal path.
Old 5 days ago
  #19
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harry_seldon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lost_the_peace View Post
VSTs are better because they make the most notes save yourself $$$$
There is no such thing as a free lunch. The better VST's like u-He consume enormous CPU cycles for these realistic emulations. I ended up buying extra computers and enabling software (VEPro 6) just to run these powerful VSTs.

Last edited by harry_seldon; 5 days ago at 02:58 AM.. Reason: spelling
Old 5 days ago
  #20
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by haze015 View Post
The Sub 37 still has aspects that I presume are digitally implemented in its VCOs, such as beat frequency and phase reset.
In either case, what is generating the sound is analogue and the rest of the signal path is analogue. The DSI Pro 2, Prophet 12, X, Tempest are all hybrids as sounds are generated digitally (Or some are, or are samples), before passing through an analogue signal path.
Yes, I was making a pretty trivial point there, and I'm quite sure you're right about areas of some digital control for pitches as well. The VCO are super tightly controlled in the Sub 37 anyway, so it's a very slight difference relative to the other differences in the synths. The Rev2 is definitely all analog audio signal path except for the (quite good) digital effects which can be bypassed anyway. To clarify for the OP, distortion on both is analog.

I was curious so I just did a quick A-B on the Sub and Prophet 08 with the filters wide open and resonance at zero and they were nearly indistinguishable. There's an audible difference, but it's not that one sounds better or worse. When two sawtooth oscillators were detuned to my best approximation, the Prophet actually has a little bit "woolier" sound, hard to describe but I can't quite replicate it on the Sub 37. And it definitely doesn't sound like any sort of digital artifact--if anything, the Prophet oscillators sound slightly "driftier." I've noticed it when matching patches across the two before.
Old 5 days ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Both are very nice modern synthesizers.
If you need polyphony and 61 keys, REV2 is a better choice.
If you want a modern Moog (it doesn't sound like vintage Moogs), SUB37 is a better choice.
Old 5 days ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopy View Post
Yes, I was making a pretty trivial point there, and I'm quite sure you're right about areas of some digital control for pitches as well. The VCO are super tightly controlled in the Sub 37 anyway, so it's a very slight difference relative to the other differences in the synths. The Rev2 is definitely all analog audio signal path except for the (quite good) digital effects which can be bypassed anyway. To clarify for the OP, distortion on both is analog.
Just to be really pedantic, the distortion on the Rev2 is digital, its part of the digital FX. Though having a mix & tone control makes it in someways better than the analogue distortion on the P6, OB6 & Tempest.
Old 5 days ago
  #23
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by haze015 View Post
Just to be really pedantic, the distortion on the Rev2 is digital, its part of the digital FX. Though having a mix & tone control makes it in someways better than the analogue distortion on the P6, OB6 & Tempest.
Ah, didn't know that! I thought I read somewhere that it was analog like on the other DSI/Sequentials. Should have been more careful, especially since a previous post I made was based on me making silly half-true technicality anyway!
Old 5 days ago
  #24
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One point that everyone else seems to have neglected is gain staging. On the Moog, you have control over individual oscillator levels, including how hard you drive the signal into the filter. This can take the sound from smooth and funky to clipping, growling, and distorted.

On the Rev 2, you can only control the relative volumes of the oscillators. The signal is X% from oscillator 1 and 100-X% from oscillator 2. And you can't get distortion from driving the signal into the filter hot. The only distortion on the DSI is the digital effect
Old 5 days ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinevos View Post
If a Moog Sub 37 is essentially the same as Prophet REV2 but a moog is monophonic. Why would i want to have a Moog? What are the advantages of a Moog Sub 37 over a Rev2?
The premise of your question doesn’t make sense. Where did you get the idea that the Sub 37 and Rev 2 are “essentially the same?”
Old 5 days ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Analog View Post
The premise of your question doesn’t make sense. Where did you get the idea that the Sub 37 and Rev 2 are “essentially the same?”
Maybe he missed the word "price" after "same" ?
Old 5 days ago
  #27
Y'all know the Sub 37 has a "Variance" detune setting (up to 40cents) in the global tuning section that allows it's oscillators to drift right?

VARIANCE (GLOBAL MENU 1.2)This parameter allows you to add a small random tuning offset to each note. The offset is updated at each note-on event. Oscillators 1 and 2 are offset symmetrically; if Oscillator 1 is offset 3.1 cents sharp,Oscillator 2 will be 3.1 cents flat. The VARIANCE parameter sets the maximum amount of detuning,using increments of 0.1 cents.
Old 5 days ago
  #28
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xZenx View Post
Y'all know the Sub 37 has a "Variance" detune setting (up to 40cents) in the global tuning section that allows it's oscillators to drift right?

VARIANCE (GLOBAL MENU 1.2)This parameter allows you to add a small random tuning offset to each note. The offset is updated at each note-on event. Oscillators 1 and 2 are offset symmetrically; if Oscillator 1 is offset 3.1 cents sharp,Oscillator 2 will be 3.1 cents flat. The VARIANCE parameter sets the maximum amount of detuning,using increments of 0.1 cents.
Yeah, mine is always set to at least 5c. Even a small amount adds a lot of life to the sound imo. However, variance isn’t oscillator drift (nor a simulation of drift). The detune amount doesn’t change over time. It’s set at note on and remains fixed for the duration of the note.
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