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why does OB-6 cost twice as much as the REV2? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 12th July 2018
  #31
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Hazmatic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
The problem with Rev2 is that it just doesn’t sound that good when compared to other synths. That makes it not very good value in my opinion. I wouldn’t feel comfortable paying $2000 for a budget synth with budget sound.
You're saying that the Rev2, the synth that musicians like Jarre claim is one of the best synths they've ever played, doesn't sound that good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
Actually, Deepmind can sound as good as OB-6 in my opinion, though maybe not as easily.
That's a good one, lol!
Old 12th July 2018
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
You're saying that the Rev2, the synth that musicians like Jarre claim is one of the best synths they've ever played, doesn't sound that good?
Yes, I actually decide myself what sounds good to me. Do you always consult Jarre before making decisions about what you like?
Old 12th July 2018
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub View Post
While it’s entirely reasonable to prefer the character of other instruments, calling it a ‘budget synth with a budget sound’ is stretching it somewhat don’t you think?!
It is a budget synth in DSI lineup. That is to say, DSI sells better sounding synths at higher price and budget synths at a budget price. Rev2 is the budget synth in their selection.
Old 12th July 2018
  #34
Gear Addict
 

The Prophet 6 and OB-6 were designed from the ground up and contain unique software and hardware from any previous DSI instrument.

The REV2 was a hardware update to a pre-existing instrument which had been in production for 8 years. We were also able to reduce the overall cost of the hardware relative to the Prophet 08.

Overall, there were much greater R&D costs to develop the Prophet and OB-6 compared to the REV2.

Old 12th July 2018
  #35
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The Rev2 sounds fantastic.
Old 12th July 2018
  #36
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Quantum7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic38 View Post
this..



I Purchased the OB6 after the Rev2 came out.. it just wows me every time i turn it on.. and that is worth the extra $1000
Amen!
Old 12th July 2018
  #37
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Hazmatic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
Yes, I actually decide myself what sounds good to me. Do you always consult Jarre before making decisions about what you like?
I do, as a matter of fact!

And hey, before you go deciding for yourself, might want to get your ears checked. Wouldn't hurt. To say that the Rev2 is a "budget synth".....wow......
Old 12th July 2018
  #38
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X_Electric's Avatar
Guys, chill!

JMJ told me personally he loved JD-800.


You must stop your nonsense right now!



Old 12th July 2018
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbmd View Post
The Prophet 6 and OB-6 were designed from the ground up and contain unique software and hardware from any previous DSI instrument.

The REV2 was a hardware update to a pre-existing instrument which had been in production for 8 years. We were also able to reduce the overall cost of the hardware relative to the Prophet 08.

Overall, there were much greater R&D costs to develop the Prophet and OB-6 compared to the REV2.

Yeah but it's a vco, how much R&D is really needed? It's been done to death. I don't know, I think it's mostly demand based and novelty based. Don't think costs are much different, in fact OB6 is probably cheaper to make.
Old 12th July 2018
  #40
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guyaguy's Avatar
 

A synth's sound quality is more than what it sounds like when you do a filter sweep. You could say that the Rev2 sounds better than the OB-6 because it does syncopated filter sequences, 4 paraphonic step sequences at the same time or 2 polyphonic sequences at the same time, stacks 32 oscillators in unison, modulates LFO per step with up to 9 destinations for that LFO, LFOs the reverb mix up and down, and just a **** ton of things that make the OB-6 look like a toy. But it would be missing the point because both are pretty damn awesome at what they do.
Old 12th July 2018
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
Actually, Deepmind can sound as good as OB-6 in my opinion, though maybe not as easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
That's a good one, lol!
It's certainly not an OB-6, but it is capable of creamy richness.

Old 12th July 2018
  #42
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
The problem with Rev2 is that it just doesn’t sound that good when compared to other synths. That makes it not very good value in my opinion. I wouldn’t feel comfortable paying $2000 for a budget synth with budget sound.

I think even Behringer Deepmind sounds much more musical than Rev2 at half the price. Actually, Deepmind can sound as good as OB-6 in my opinion, though maybe not as easily.
Your entitled to your opinion, of course, but when I stripped my Deepmind down to its core synth engine, I felt my Tetras blew it away in every way. Honestly, I didn’t even think the Deepmind sounded nearly as good as Roland’s Juno plugin. The build quality is also no where near Dave’s synths.
Old 12th July 2018
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
The build quality is also no where near Dave’s synths.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with Deepmind build quality, at least mine feels solid. OTOH, I have read reports of all kinds of issues with wonky encoders etc in Dave’s synths (even high end ones like Prophet 6). Didn’t Prophet 08 also need a complete encoder to potentiometer upgrade back in the day because the encoders broke so often?
Old 12th July 2018
  #44


If one listens carefully to this comparison, its not exactly “holy sh%t!” dramatically different. Granted, the OB6’s true state variable VCFs are quite different for some things, the base sound is quite similar in character.

The DM12 is a great value poly analog, but I couldn’t get past the second osc being stuck on square wave. The Rev2 does not look or feel like a budget synth. Compared to older first gen DSI HW I’ve owned, it is an obvious step up in quality. The keybed, the pots, the screen, pretty much all of it is better. On top of that, the asking price, compared to what the P08 sold for new, is excellent, when you also consider the improvements in the UI, synthesis features, and FX. They improved the envelopes, now looping. They improved the mod matrix, now 8 slots instead of 4. The oscillators went from saw/tri/pulse, to saw/tri+saw/tri/pulse with variable waveform shape, and added sub on each oscillator. It is much easier to program the LFO and modulation matrix now, so you don’t have to scroll through sources and destinations. The mono gate sequencer is now a poly or mono gate sequencer. There are plenty of other improvements as well, but those just stick out to me.

Just as with the P08, the Rev2 is polarizing. Either you like it or you don’t. Still, there is a large chunk of people who seem to suddenly love the Rev2 because they put some average digital FX on it. The P08 always sounded good through some FX, I guess people are just more likely to hear it in demoes now. Lesson learned for DSI, and many synth manufacturers now who include this probably inexpensive feature so the demoes sound better.
Old 12th July 2018
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
The problem with Rev2 is that it just doesn’t sound that good when compared to other synths. That makes it not very good value in my opinion. I wouldn’t feel comfortable paying $2000 for a budget synth with budget sound.

I think even Behringer Deepmind sounds much more musical than Rev2 at half the price. Actually, Deepmind can sound as good as OB-6 in my opinion, though maybe not as easily.
I'm sorry but you're confusing what constitutes a "budget synth", your Deepmind fits perfectly into that criteria. Also you're kind of clueless about how the Rev2 sounds or its sonic capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
If one listens carefully to this comparison, its not exactly “holy sh%t!” dramatically different.
Imo that 5% difference certainly isnt't worth the extra cash or the inferior voice count, mod matrix, missing octave etc.
Old 12th July 2018
  #46
Oh come on, we all know that JMJ loves VSTS's all the way

Old 12th July 2018
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by battyroy View Post
Imo that 5% difference certainly isnt't worth the extra cash or the inferior voice count, mod matrix, missing octave etc.
Yup, but I totally get that for some it may be worth it, if already covered with deep mod-matrix complexity in other ways. The P6/OB-6 are very immediate, no screen, yet with the variable waveform, there is still no shortage of timbre options. Really the coolest thing IMO new on the Rev2 is that variable shaped waveform. Varying slowly over time, and how each voice’s LFO is free running and not synced sounds really cool on pads.

Still wish there was a single global LFO, or at least an option to sync an LFO, but whatever. Blofeld has the most amazing LFO’s but alas, it’s software in a box.

The Rev2 looks great too. I admit that the P6/OB6 look even better though. I think the OB blie lines looks great, especially.
Old 12th July 2018
  #48
Kja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battyroy View Post
I'm sorry but you're confusing what constitutes a "budget synth", your Deepmind fits perfectly into that criteria. Also you're kind of clueless about how the Rev2 sounds or its sonic capabilities.



Imo that 5% difference certainly isnt't worth the extra cash or the inferior voice count, mod matrix, missing octave etc.
Its not 5%.. There are tons of video's that make synths that are very different sound the same, comparing basic waveforms and the simple functions one by one is not how you get a feel of a synth. They feel and sound completely different in how they modulate and how the respond to the user. I'm not saying the rev2 is not great, but it sounds much different. Even the guy in the video kept saying they can do similar things but they fundamentally sound different.
Old 12th July 2018
  #49
Kja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac_music View Post
Yeah but it's a vco, how much R&D is really needed? It's been done to death. I don't know, I think it's mostly demand based and novelty based. Don't think costs are much different, in fact OB6 is probably cheaper to make.
Is this a joke? Have you ever tried to build a vco? To get it to tune across five octaves? How about to respond to tuning voltages? Its not easy is an understatement.. Maybe an electrical engineer could do one somewhat easy but try multiplying more than one polyphonically into a mixer.. There is only a very few companies that can do that in today's world of smt parts made for cars and cell phones. You pay them for doing it for you.
Old 12th July 2018
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja View Post
Is this a joke? Have you ever tried to build a vco? To get it to tune across five octaves? How about to respond to tuning voltages? Its not easy is an understatement.. Maybe an electrical engineer could do one somewhat easy but try multiplying more than one polyphonically into a mixer.. There is only a very few companies that can do that in today's world of smt parts made for cars and cell phones. You pay them for doing it for you.
Dave released Prophet 5 in 1978. Wouldn’t it be fair to assume he knows by now how to create analog polysynths?
Old 12th July 2018
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
Dave released Prophet 5 in 1978. Wouldn’t it be fair to assume he knows by now how to create analog polysynths?
I'm not sure if you're just on here for the sake of arguing or if you genuinely don't understand what's involved in creating a product. Think about it this way, if it was simple to create a programmable polysynth with discrete VCO's and filters that sounds great, is reliable and easy to use then why aren't there a bunch of cheap competitors undercutting Dave Smith?

Behringer are arguably trying to do exactly this. They've got a significant advantage with having a large vertically integrated manfacturing capability in China. They've been able to bring in design expertise and technology from across the Music Group (notably the effects which go a long way to making the DM12 sound as good as it does). But despite all these advantages of scale and cheap Chinese labour costs, their initial offering was a DCO based synth that has some notable corner cutting to meet its budget point like oscillator 2 being essentially just a fancy sub oscillator, a very poor quality display and the noisy cooling fans. Despite all this, they only managed to bring it in at £300 less than the Rev2.

Nonetheless, I suspect DSI have got a decent margin on the Prophet 6 and OB6 as they probably didn't expect them to be as successful as they have been.

Last edited by adydub; 12th July 2018 at 03:12 PM..
Old 12th July 2018
  #52
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dsetto's Avatar
 

Sounds good. ...

Is the modulation of the P6/OB6 digital?
Old 12th July 2018
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsetto View Post
Sounds good. ...

Is the modulation of the P6/OB6 digital?
All the parameters are under voltage control, and of course all the x-mod stuff can be driven from the VCO's. I'm not 100% sure, but I'd guess that the LFO and envelopes are digitally generated and then converted into CV, but I've been unable to verify this either way with a quick web search. The envelopes are extremely consistent either way. I'd love some parameter slop to go along with the tuning slop to loosen thing up a little more. I keep dreaming this may happen in a firmware update, but it's pretty unlikely.
Old 12th July 2018
  #54
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dsetto's Avatar
 

My thoughts as a Rev2 user ... and with it being my only deep, analog poly, and with only 1-2 sit-downs with both a P6 & OB6.

To me, the DSI VCO's raw sounds are tastier. For my main poly I wanted portability, 61 keys, all-analog no-lag chain, lots of sound design paths to explore. And high voice count & 4-out add to it. I appreciate tasty sound, but for the spot I was filling, Rev2 does it exactly. And its "whole" sound is satisfying to me.

Would I want a fantasy product? I don't waste my time with those fantasies. And I'm personally not in position to have both. Were I filling a different spot, or had gone against brain choice, perhaps this post would be in reverse.
Old 12th July 2018
  #55
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
I don’t think there is anything wrong with Deepmind build quality, at least mine feels solid. OTOH, I have read reports of all kinds of issues with wonky encoders etc in Dave’s synths (even high end ones like Prophet 6). Didn’t Prophet 08 also need a complete encoder to potentiometer upgrade back in the day because the encoders broke so often?
It is true that back in the day Dave bought a batch of encoders that were prone to go bad. It happens. No manufacturers have 100% control of their supply chain. Dave quickly pivoted, and offered a potentiometer based version and an upgrade kit for a very reasonable price, IMO. It also let me buy a non upgraded module for $800. Since I don’t mind using the software editor, I got a killer deal, but I could see others being angry.

Since then, I’ve owned a Prophet 12 (which actually had an issue with oscillator bleed, but that’s another story), two Tetras, Tempest, Pro 2 and Prophet 6, and they’re all solid in terms of pots and encoders. The Deepmind was ok for the money, but it didn’t feel as solid. The keybed didn’t feel nearly as nice as what’s on my Pro 2 or Prophet 12. I feel like I had to let it run its calibration routine more than any other synth I’ve ever owned, and I live in a very temperature stable, low humidity area of the country.

Mostly though, I just found the Deepmind to sound underwhelming. The oscillators just didn’t sound that great to me. The PWM sounded kind of flat and lifeless compared to anything I own. The oscillator 2 color control was kind of cute, but in practice not as useful as just having a true full second oscillator. (Yeah, yeah, I know you could get two sawtooth style sounds with unison) The filter was also mediocre sounding. I thought it went from lacking character, to sounding like crap when you pushed the resonance up. These are all just my opinions on it, so take them with a grain of salt. The day I switched to Bigwig and discovered its awesome modulation system, I put the Deepmind up against my Tetras and various plugins including Roland’s Juno 106 and ran them though the Soundtoys bundle... and the Deepmind went on eBay later that afternoon. Good thing too, as soon after they started blowing out the Deepmind for about what I sold it for.

Anyway, I’m not saying the Deepmind is a horrible synth, but I think that Uli should spend more of his resources trying to develop a better sounding poly (which he may indeed be doing with his Oberheim clone) and less time suing people who talk sh!t about him on the internet. His Boog definitely impressed me, at least sound wise. (I wish he’d pushed the design a bit forward, but that’s just me) The Neutron demos have left me feeling underwhelmed. Maybe Behringer is only great at cloning other people’s tech? I think Behringer has the potential to really up everyone’s game, but I think they need to rethink their game a little and find a way to create unique instruments that rival vintage synths, not just clone them.
Old 12th July 2018
  #56
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I wish we spent more time talking about music in here.
Old 12th July 2018
  #57
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I wish we spent more time talking about music in here.
...

On...

GEARslutz.

...

Okay then.
Old 12th July 2018
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimket View Post
...

On...

GEARslutz.

...

Okay then.
If this is anything more than a subjective pissing contest where owners of X vehemently defend their purchase against product Y owners, please, do tell.
Old 12th July 2018
  #59
Gear Nut
 

May I direct you to TUNEslutz, good sir?
Old 12th July 2018
  #60
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub View Post
I'm not sure if you're just on here for the sake of arguing or if you genuinely don't understand what's involved in creating a product. Think about it this way, if it was simple to create a programmable polysynth with discrete VCO's and filters that sounds great, is reliable and easy to use then why aren't there a bunch of cheap competitors undercutting Dave Smith?
Behringer are arguably trying to do exactly this. They've got a significant advantage with having a large vertically integrated manfacturing capability in China. They've been able to bring in design expertise and technology from across the Music Group (notably the effects which go a long way to making the DM12 sound as good as it does). But despite all these advantages of scale and cheap Chinese labour costs, their initial offering was a DCO based synth that has some notable corner cutting to meet its budget point like oscillator 2 being essentially just a fancy sub oscillator, a very poor quality display and the noisy cooling fans. Despite all this, they only managed to bring it in at £300 less than the Rev2.

Nonetheless, I suspect DSI have got a decent margin on the Prophet 6 and OB6 as they probably didn't expect them to be as successful as they have been.
Just to add to this that the prophet 5 didn't have discreet oscillators to my knowledge. Not that it makes it that much easier having vco's on a chip but it does mean that the prophet 6 was done from the ground up.. Besides the help from Tom basically the ob6 was too.. If it's not worth paying a premium for two synthesizer GODS to handbuilt a new fully analog synth for you that they really didn't have to or really want to.. If that's not worth it then it may say something about you. Most here would say shut up and take my money.. Price don't even matter that much when I was looking, and I'm broke and poor, but damn man you only live once and can only play one at a time, to me the prophet 6 was it almost immediately.. I wanted a prologue but how can you not want the best? You should be glad its only a grand more for the real deal, wait for moog to drop there's and then roland to make a Jupiter again.. Then they will look like bargains.
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