The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Moog One Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 1 week ago
  #4021
Lives for gear
 
jmcecil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
One of these two would need to go: Rev3 Prophet-5 or OB-Xa.
I could "store" one of those for you so you don't have to decide. I'll even keep it on and make sure it is working order regularly. I'm willing to sacrifice.
Old 1 week ago
  #4022
Here for the gear
Poly AT

I have a Linnstrument and Roli for MPE. When I ordered my Deckard's Dream, I searched and found a Roland A-80 for Poly AT. I looked for a Kurzweil Midiboard but one wasn't available. YES, Moog should make a One with custom poly AT keybed and I'd be willing to pay a premium price- 1K or 2K is ok (after all it's only 61 keys not 76 or 88). How much did the Midiboard or A-80 cost when they came out? Not 4K I think, and they were 88 note controllers with lots of other features as well. If Moog won't convince manufacturers to make a poly at keybed, then Fatar or Roland or Kurzweil should start making Poly AT controllers again! I'm guessing there's enough demand. Need another LFO? Moog included CV in/out. Need an analogue delay? Moog supplied inserts. Want a new feature? Moog can implement it in firmware updates. Moog, break down and order 500 or 1000 Poly AT keybeds. You can implement them in The One and your other synths. It's been a missing feature for too long! (I won't even ask for a ribbon controller built in. I'll use my Roli. But I hoped that you might have hada few left over from the Voyager XL line that you could have used.)
Poly AT keybed for The ONE? That would make it the perfect instrument. It's so close right now. It's near perfect in my eyes. And yes, I am ordering the One. I'm also hoping it's called The One because it is the first in a series of Moog Poly Synths and right now it is the only One.
Old 1 week ago
  #4023
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
If there was enough demand they would have been making Poly AT keybeds by now.
Old 1 week ago
  #4024
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer View Post
Well, opinions abound. Yours is noted. Mine is different. I'm not crazy, and I'll resist the temptation that you may not be listening through your ears.

My present opinion - subject to change - is that I am not hearing $8k worth of anything, or an amazingly analog-quality-of-sound, or anything else which can not be easily recreated or surpassed on equipment which costs thousands less.

still the range of opinions is amazing. from sounds nothing like a vintage to sounds exactly like a memorymoog, from sound boring to sounds exciting, from not worth it to totally worth it, from who'd need that? to maybe all i need
Old 1 week ago
  #4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
I believe the short-lived Jump demo was from Kurt Ader.
Ahh, thanks. Got my Ks mixed up
Old 1 week ago
  #4026
Here for the gear
but more and more synths are now implementing reception of poly at. The demand must be growing.
Old 1 week ago
  #4027
Lives for gear
 
dsetto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Thanks! I appreciate that!

The only problem is, if I do decide to get a Moog One, I won't be able to keep my current setup.

There's simply no room left in my studio for another big synth.

One of these two would need to go: Rev3 Prophet-5 or OB-Xa.

For me, that's like Sophie's Choice (apologies in advance for the somewhat tasteless analogy).

(Seriously, though. This is a decision I really don't want to face...).
If/when the time comes, are you able to add the Moog, set aside one of the chopping block boards aside, and spend time with that? Then, swap out the chopping block boards. Then after enough time, .... perhaps the decision is easier. It's a call that could be hard to make theoretically. ... (Honestly, I should leave this party.)
Old 1 week ago
  #4028
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthBlues View Post
but more and more synths are now implementing reception of poly at. The demand must be growing.
Not really. Implementing Poly AT is just a nicety that doesn't take an awful lot of development time - it's cheap to support that. Tooling up for the hardware keybed to be made is a LOT more complicated, and orders of magnitude more expensive (and no, the demand is not that high for it at all. GS is a microcosm on the grand scale of things, a few dozen voices here doesn't pay for tooling up the whole process). We're spinning in circles, people. Poly AT is probably not returning in the limelight any time soon (or ever), MPE is taking over.
Old 1 week ago
  #4029
Lives for gear
 
Mr. Varaldo's Avatar
I haven't had a chance to watch / hear all the demos / videos yet, but for what I hear so far, it sounds like a Memorymoog and it takes to the next millennium level with the new modulation capabilities, lfos, envelopes, oled displays, Eventide fx etc..... what's not to like? (other than the price, which is expected for a high-end synth like this...)

That "Sergio" (Leone) patch on the audio demos is really cool btw
Old 1 week ago
  #4030
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
I remain amazed at how much people can go on about PolyAT.
Well, like I said earlier, PolyAT is two things...

I'm curious, did you ever take piano lessons as a kid? If so, did you ever play Bach? If so, did you ever advance to playing more than one melodic line in a hand, like say in the Three Part Inventions or 3-4 voice fugues from the Well-tempered Clavier?

Not to be presumptuous (or a jerk) but I suspect you haven't played much Bach, because if you had, you would totally understand why polyphonic aftertouch would be a godsend on a synthesizer--especially on a synth like the Moog One which is 3-in-1!

This isn't to say, of course, that one must play this sort of music in order to appreciate it. Not at all. In fact, I'd guess most musicians here haven't played much contrapuntal music, but still want PolyAT because they can at least conceptualize its possibilities and this is the most important part.

It's not about virtuosity, but about control and expression. Our hands (and brains) are remarkably capable. We might not always think they are, but, really, it's not as difficult to play (and think!) polyphonically as it might seem--especially when virtuosity is not the goal.
Old 1 week ago
  #4031
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
No new demos today :(
Old 1 week ago
  #4032
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcecil View Post
I've lusted after a CS-80 since I first heard Vangelous in the 70s. Drool

I'm really really not arguing against MPE or Poly AT. But, I have tried to play a seaboard and have had real difficulty with it. I can't do the slides at all. By the time I'm touching light enough to slide, the notes are practically if not completely off. If I'm holding down, the cloth just bunches up under my fingers. I think I'm the only guy on the planet that just can't get with that thing, even though I know it's super cool. I'll probably pick one up again (tried one but sent it back) when/if we get the MPE update for the One.
Weird to hear that. Not to get too far OT, but there is so much you can adjust with the Rise (I have the 49) that its really easy to get just the right feel, IMO. It does take some getting used to, though. It's not something you really hit hard like a traditional piano or synth action keyboard. Playing it somewhat gently was the hardest thing for me, though I got it in a day or so. Using it with standard hardware can be very frustrating. It's much better with it's own synths (Strobe and Equator.) I've been pestering them to put threshold/curve controls in the controller app, but so far nothing. That would really help make it something that could be used on any synth. I hope Moog pays attention to that when implementing their MPE. It's very important to be able to set a threshold on something like aftertouch so that you're not overriding the filter envelope (or whatever) at the attack of every note. It's not really aftertouch. It's alwaystouch™ and needs to be treated differently.
Old 1 week ago
  #4033
Gear Addict
 
j3rk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthBlues View Post
but more and more synths are now implementing reception of poly at. The demand must be growing.
While true, who's going to jump first on that. All methods to date have potential issues of reliability/longevity/expense, and with basically one company providing keybeds to just about everyone you know this has come up. I'm sure just about all of the big players have had talks with Fatar, and probably all of them have walked back out not wanting to jump on what it would cost to implement (especially as the first modern synthmaker to jump). If big players formed some kind of Poly AT consortium, pooled their resources, and funded the first line from Fatar or someone else even, that might cause some movement.

All guesswork on my part, but I think nobody wants to go first.
Old 1 week ago
  #4034
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
.
.
OK I give up!

I've placed a pre-order with Andertons in the UK for a 16 voice. I'm first on the list, lucky for me as their first batch is for 1x16 and 4x8, so sold out of 16 voice so to speak.

Delivery expected mid / late November.

Now a big decision, do I sell to fund / find some space for this monster:

To go or not to go:
Montage 6
Prophet 6
OB 6
Prophet Rev 2
Prophet X
Moog Voyager OS (bought instead of an 'old' Model D then came the reissue)
Moog Model D reissue
Moog MF 104
David Gilmour Black Strat NOS
David Gimour Black Strat Relic (how on earth did I end up with these two)
Roger Water signture Bass

Offers accepted....
I'd sell the Rev 2, the Moog One will do alot more and sound better. I'd sell the Voyager and Model D, and get a Berhinger D. They sound awesome, and are only $300. Sell one of the guitars too.
Old 1 week ago
  #4035
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Show me a 48 VCO unison on thousands less instrument.
16 Korg Volcas?
Old 1 week ago
  #4036
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Well, like I said earlier, PolyAT is two things...

I'm curious, did you ever take piano lessons as a kid? If so, did you ever play Bach? If so, did you ever advance to playing more than one melodic line in a hand, like say in the Three Part Inventions or 3-4 voice fugues from the Well-tempered Clavier?

Not to be presumptuous (or a jerk) but I suspect you haven't played much Bach, because if you had, you would totally understand why polyphonic aftertouch would be a godsend on a synthesizer--especially on a synth like the Moog One which is 3-in-1!

This isn't to say, of course, that one must play this sort of music in order to appreciate it. Not at all. In fact, I'd guess most musicians here haven't played much contrapuntal music, but still want PolyAT because they can at least conceptualize its possibilities and this is the most important part.

It's not about virtuosity, but about control and expression. Our hands (and brains) are remarkably capable. We might not always think they are, but, really, it's not as difficult to play (and think!) polyphonically as it might seem--especially when virtuosity is not the goal.
Heh, I spent many years studying Bach among the others, loved the Partitas; also Chopin, only mastered some of the Ballades, though, probably my favorite pieces of music. The furthest up into the modern repertoire I got though was Debussy's Preludes, and Bartok's Mikrokosmos (I had the brief pleasure of taking some master classes one summer with one of Bela Bartok's students, out at Tanglewood; that was truly exciting, though boy was he a tyrant! <G>).

I can understand velocity affecting a number of sounds, but I always find aftertouch (probably because I never find the pressure quite right, either too light or too heavy) more of a carpal tunnel pain risk than anything else, perhaps I'm not getting it......? Neither the harpsichord nor pianos have aftertouch of any sort......?
Old 1 week ago
  #4037
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Weird to hear that. Not to get too far OT, but there is so much you can adjust with the Rise (I have the 49) that its really easy to get just the right feel, IMO. It does take some getting used to, though. It's not something you really hit hard like a traditional piano or synth action keyboard. Playing it somewhat gently was the hardest thing for me, though I got it in a day or so. Using it with standard hardware can be very frustrating. It's much better with it's own synths (Strobe and Equator.) I've been pestering them to put threshold/curve controls in the controller app, but so far nothing. That would really help make it something that could be used on any synth. I hope Moog pays attention to that when implementing their MPE. It's very important to be able to set a threshold on something like aftertouch so that you're not overriding the filter envelope (or whatever) at the attack of every note. It's not really aftertouch. It's alwaystouch™ and needs to be treated differently.
I still get burning fingertips after tapping very long on any iThing screen, to the point where I consider it the worst interface idea ever created.

If it gave, somehow, like the keys on any good PC keyboard, maybe that would be different.
Old 1 week ago
  #4038
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
No new demos today :(
There's a sound demo part IV at 3:30pm EST, unless I've slipped back into the past again with my time machine experiments......?

YouTube
Old 1 week ago
  #4039
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Not really. Implementing Poly AT is just a nicety that doesn't take an awful lot of development time - it's cheap to support that. Tooling up for the hardware keybed to be made is a LOT more complicated, and orders of magnitude more expensive (and no, the demand is not that high for it at all. GS is a microcosm on the grand scale of things, a few dozen voices here doesn't pay for tooling up the whole process). We're spinning in circles, people. Poly AT is probably not returning in the limelight any time soon (or ever), MPE is taking over.
If it's possible for it to make a comeback, it'll take a few notable performances that everyone wants to duplicate. Famous artists with their Seaboards front and center, the way the dubsteppers made a lot of kids want MPCs.
Old 1 week ago
  #4040
Lives for gear
 
daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyToot View Post
Not having a dig. I think Korg's latest stuff is garbage tatt. The MS20 is an utter disgrace. I've never had hands on experience with their Prologue, I know it's not a like for like comparison, but the display on the Prologue, Jesus H Christ and the baby of Nazerath, what a totally unfunny joke that is, and then we have the One's display; need I say more?

.
The OASYS and Kronos also run embedded Linux (as does the Moog One), so the notion of a decent touchscreen display in the same style is not altogether unfamiliar to Korg.

That said - the implementation on the One is really well-thought out, which (unfortunately) I cannot say the same about with regard to the Prologue et al.
Old 1 week ago
  #4041
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Well, like I said earlier, PolyAT is two things...

I'm curious, did you ever take piano lessons as a kid? If so, did you ever play Bach? If so, did you ever advance to playing more than one melodic line in a hand, like say in the Three Part Inventions or 3-4 voice fugues from the Well-tempered Clavier?

Not to be presumptuous (or a jerk) but I suspect you haven't played much Bach, because if you had, you would totally understand why polyphonic aftertouch would be a godsend on a synthesizer--especially on a synth like the Moog One which is 3-in-1!

This isn't to say, of course, that one must play this sort of music in order to appreciate it. Not at all. In fact, I'd guess most musicians here haven't played much contrapuntal music, but still want PolyAT because they can at least conceptualize its possibilities and this is the most important part.

It's not about virtuosity, but about control and expression. Our hands (and brains) are remarkably capable. We might not always think they are, but, really, it's not as difficult to play (and think!) polyphonically as it might seem--especially when virtuosity is not the goal.
I think a lot of people underestimate the importance of the poly AT, which brings the dimension of sound expressiveness into another level. But, I guess the poly AT it costs a lot in manufacturing. One of the main things that makes the CS – 80 so unique is its polyphonic aftertouch, expensive instrument of course [6900 US dollars in 1976], but and the Moog One isn’t that cheap…
Old 1 week ago
  #4042
Gear Maniac
 
apessino's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthBlues View Post
but more and more synths are now implementing reception of poly at. The demand must be growing.
Demand for MPE, sure...

Maybe it's because I was trained first as a concert pianist and have been banging keys since I was 4, but AT in general has always been just annoying to me.

I have yet to experience or even hear anything resembling degrees of control with AT playing - it's just such a binary thing. Basically an overly complicated and imprecise on/off switch. For some actual expression a breath controller beats AT in every way I can imagine.

Not that I've ever tried it, but I would imagine poly AT would be even worse. More of a chance to trigger the damn thing unintentionally. There seems to be also a correlation between the best keybeds to play and not having AT, at least in my limited experience. Perhaps the presence of the sensor is enough to compromise key feel to some extend and give it a slight spongy feel. Having another range of "give" with a little spring would make the keys feel even mushier, I would think, especially for heavy handed players like yours truly.

I had one of the original Roli Grands, and then a Rise 49 for several years - it was all right, at least for playing in virtual instruments, but still nowhere near the same feeling an actual keyboard. The lack of mechanical feedback from the playing surface is not something I could ever grow to love.

The trend is definitely towards MPE and "higher dimensional" controllers, which is cool, and away from aftertouch in keyboards. I think it's a good thing and it will result in better keyboards and more interesting avenues of control rather than shoehorning extra dimensions into keyboards.
Old 1 week ago
  #4043
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsetto View Post
If/when the time comes, are you able to add the Moog, set aside one of the chopping block boards aside, and spend time with that? Then, swap out the chopping block boards. Then after enough time, .... perhaps the decision is easier. It's a call that could be hard to make theoretically. ... (Honestly, I should leave this party.)
Yeah, my credit rating is at the top of the scale, has been for years! I could probably buy a Bay Area house right now, no problem, if I wanted to.... and/or put the Moog One on CC and pay it off over time, no risk. And then just stack my A6 or one of my other studio keyboards up in the Last Corner Left for awhile.

Hmmmm.......

But no. I have succeeded in life in part by resisting such temptations, and maintaining an absolute fear of debt load risk.

The job market is far too perilous and precarious these days to count on anything more than 2 years out, that's one of the biggest factors, whether you're an employee or perhaps, especially, if you run a business; it's led me to boycott making any large purchases whose payoff would require any length of time, as a result.
Old 1 week ago
  #4044
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Well, like I said earlier, PolyAT is two things...

I'm curious, did you ever take piano lessons as a kid? If so, did you ever play Bach? If so, did you ever advance to playing more than one melodic line in a hand, like say in the Three Part Inventions or 3-4 voice fugues from the Well-tempered Clavier?

Not to be presumptuous (or a jerk) but I suspect you haven't played much Bach, because if you had, you would totally understand why polyphonic aftertouch would be a godsend on a synthesizer--especially on a synth like the Moog One which is 3-in-1!

This isn't to say, of course, that one must play this sort of music in order to appreciate it. Not at all. In fact, I'd guess most musicians here haven't played much contrapuntal music, but still want PolyAT because they can at least conceptualize its possibilities and this is the most important part.

It's not about virtuosity, but about control and expression. Our hands (and brains) are remarkably capable. We might not always think they are, but, really, it's not as difficult to play (and think!) polyphonically as it might seem--especially when virtuosity is not the goal.
Well put. I think people who don't get it may have never played traditional instruments as well. I started off as a guitar player, so having expressive touch per finger is just built into the nature of the instrument. Same with pretty much all string instruments. Of course, that doesn't stop us from also using pedals to control effects, but that's something on a global level. Being able to do something per note event is huge. The first thing I did when I got my Rise was to hold down a chord with my left hand and do a solo that slid all over the place with my right. Brilliant.
Old 1 week ago
  #4045
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Heh, I spent many years studying Bach among the others, loved the Partitas; also Chopin, only mastered some of the Ballades, though, probably my favorite pieces of music. The furthest up into the modern repertoire I got though was Debussy's Preludes, and Bartok's Mikrokosmos (I had the brief pleasure of taking some master classes one summer with one of Bela Bartok's students, out at Tanglewood; that was truly exciting, though boy was he a tyrant! <G>).

I can understand velocity affecting a number of sounds, but I always find aftertouch (probably because I never find the pressure quite right, either too light or too heavy) more of a carpal tunnel pain risk than anything else, perhaps I'm not getting it......? Neither the harpsichord nor pianos have aftertouch of any sort......?
So... I was being presumptuous, then (and a jerk)!

Good for you!

Yes, it's true, neither the harpsichord nor piano (or organ, etc) have aftertouch, and Bach's music still sounds great. But when you apply polyphonic technique to an instrument which CAN respond to it, it opens up doors of expression that aren't available on any of these instruments.

For me, the appeal of synthesizers is mostly about opening doors of expression that aren't available to me as a pianist.
Old 1 week ago
  #4046
Gear Addict
 
analogsynth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoy View Post
Birdie says Fatar has plans for a poly AT keybed for 2019.
Great news, that kind of kills the argument that there's not enough demand.
Old 1 week ago
  #4047
Lives for gear
 
daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
It's not really aftertouch. It's alwaystouch™ and needs to be treated differently.
Brilliantly put - and familiar to anyone who's owned a poly AT Ensoniq.
Old 1 week ago
  #4048
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
16 Korg Volcas?
Touché sir. Well played.
Old 1 week ago
  #4049
Lives for gear
 
goldphinga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo View Post
I haven't had a chance to watch / hear all the demos / videos yet, but for what I hear so far, it sounds like a Memorymoog and it takes to the next millennium level with the new modulation capabilities, lfos, envelopes, oled displays, Eventide fx etc..... what's not to like? (other than the price, which is expected for a high-end synth like this...)

That "Sergio" (Leone) patch on the audio demos is really cool btw
It certainly has the MemoryMoog DNA but it doesnt sound like a MemoryMoog- this is a good thing- I love my MM but the One is a next level machine, not a vintage sounding synth. Its pushing the boundaries- if I want vintage poly I use the MM, the One, well- it sounds much more expansive and futuristic. Its a new sound that I cant compare to any other synth Ive heard previously- sure elements of others but it sounds like its own thing, thats quite an accomplishment.
Old 1 week ago
  #4050
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apessino View Post
I have yet to experience or even hear anything resembling degrees of control with AT playing - it's just such a binary thing.
AT on Kurzweils is extremely controllable, thanks to the lag processor FUN you can use to smooth it out and not trigger it too easily. Korg has the same possibility on Kronos with AMS mixers.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump