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Warm, analog poly for pads, textures, and effects. Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 14th June 2018
  #31
Gear Maniac
 
baethku's Avatar
Akai AX80? See them for $5-600.
Old 14th June 2018
  #32
Kja
Lives for gear
What about roland's sh01? That seems like a great sounding four voice.. I would say the reface vs would make a great cheap poly, neither are real analog but I won't tell if you don't.
Old 15th June 2018
  #33
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Schwarzwald's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by apessino View Post
Well, my reasons would be:

- with the programmer you'll likely spend considerably over $600
- any JX you get will be... freaking old! With all that entails.
- the JX uses DCOs (in case it matters to you)
- the JX never remotely sounded as good as the Minilogue

The Minilogue is a modern classic, the JX is just an old poly synth. In my opinion, of course...

But... you also get 61 real keys with the JX - the Minilogue keyboard is all right for lines and tweaking, but the playing experience is rather limiting and the little switch slider thingy is kinda crap and there are no wheels.

I'd still get the Minilogue.
ATM, I can get a JX-8P and a programmer for ~605 locally. Though I'm surprised to see so many prefer the Minilogue's sound to the JX-8P. That makes me much less attracted to it. However, I feel odd having a Minilogue and Monologue. I, for whatever reason, like to have a diverse set of tools. But I guess sometimes you have to ignore these sort of principles for practical reasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
Why ? Because they can't sound warm and analog ?
I have/have had many digital synths, wavetable, wavesequencing, transwave, FM, PM, additive, etc. Not to mention all the VSTs. However, I currently only have 1 analog, and I've never had, at least all to myself, an analog poly. I'd like something to fill that niche.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidizer View Post
never thought the minilogue sounded "warm", maybe it was the patches. it definitely has bottom end balls. even though it is poly, 4 voice for pads? pads was what it was worst at in my experience, not just because of the voice count.

$600 for poly analogue seems unrealistic.
What were the problems, besides the voice count, that made the Minilogue not appropriate for pads?


Quote:
Originally Posted by loppy101 View Post
Ensoniq ESQ1.
+ 8 voices
+ 3 oscillators
+ sync & am
+ 3 lfo's
+ 4 envelopes
+ 8 track sequencer
+ 5 octave keyboard
+ VERY WARM
+ well less than $600

(- however not 100% analogue)
I love the ESQ-1, and am in talks to buy one of these (and a TS-12) at the moment. I had a VFX before, and I've always liked Ensoniq boards. However, I am looking for something else here. Very basic, standard pads, typically described on these forums as "lush," and, "warm." And I want the sound to come from a 100% analog poly, as I currently don't have that in my palette.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Yeah, I’m also not a big Minilogue fan. Seems more useful as a unison enabled mono than a poly, IMO. Something about the way that filter is voiced... OTOH, I really like the Monologue.

I’d recommend the OP doubling their budget, even if it means waiting a lot longer. $600 won’t get you more than a 4 voice, and frankly 4 voices just isn’t enough to do a lot of poly work especially if you use long release times. With $1200, things really open up and there are some nice choices, like the Prophet 08, System 8 (Digital, but as good as analog) and the 8 voice Prologue. (Hybrid, but with VCOs)

Another option is to go for a Tetra, which is 4 voices of a Prophet 08, but with a sub oscillator and feedback circuit. Then, start saving for a second unit and you’ll have an 8 voice analog. Only issue is, you need to be cool doing your patch design on a computer editor, as the Tetra’s physical interface isn’t much fun to work with.
Is it possible to reach all of the Tetras parameters from the front panel? Also, are all parameters MIDI controllable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
OP, if there is one piece of advice NOT TO TAKE in this thread, IT IS THIS GUY'S

STAY AWAY from Elektron, unless making headaches for yourself is something you enjoy

Minilogue

You want Vintage? AX73, JX8P, JX3P

Based on your criteria, I don't think the JX3P is exactly the type of sound you are looking for its a bit shrill and mid-rangey, and The AX73 is a real love it or hate it synth (And to be honest, MOST people hate it.....I love it, but I'm not going to tell you that you will)

That leaves the JX8P, which is considered to be a good pad synth, but again, is a synth that is widely despised....I don't despise it, but you should be aware that many do,

I don't know, if you've tried a Volca Keys and that doesn't do it for you (You should really try one if you haven't) but The Minilouge is beyond obvious, I've never owned one but have never been disappointed when I've played them, if they had aftertouch via MIDI I'd probably buy one , myself
Can you say more about some typical criticisms of the JX-8P? I actually searched this forum before I made this thread about its reception, and it's a controversial synth to say the least. However, because people using somewhat vague descriptions of its sound, or general hate about DCOS, I'm not sure what to expect. The demos sound quite nice to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewE View Post
What about the DeepMind 6? It would mean going used or at least B-stock, or stretching the budget slightly, but might be an option otherwise. Six voices is almost enough for pads if you're careful.

Nothing wrong with the Minilogue, of course, but maybe not ideal for pad-ish sorts of things.
I've been looking at the DeepMind 12, there are a few around me locally. How much editing takes place in menus? I was going over the front panel, but I can't really pick up how one goes about editing the thing. I see there are edit switches you have to engage, is it that you press the edit switch on a module and that allows you to move the sliders or what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by baethku View Post
Akai AX80? See them for $5-600.
I forgot about those! Thanks, I'll be on the look out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja View Post
What about roland's sh01? That seems like a great sounding four voice.. I would say the reface vs would make a great cheap poly, neither are real analog but I won't tell if you don't.
I love ROLAND Boutique, but they are too small. I hadn't thought about the Reface CS. I may not buy it to satiate this particular itch, but it does sound good to me.
Old 15th June 2018
  #34
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Schwarzwald's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
I've also just been offered a Juno 6, though I've heard many things about how fiddley these things are internally. How would this stack up to the JX-8P, Minilogue, or Deepmind 12?
Old 15th June 2018
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
I've also just been offered a Juno 6, though I've heard many things about how fiddley these things are internally. How would this stack up to the JX-8P, Minilogue, or Deepmind 12?
The juno6 is a very reliable synth of it's been taken care of

Keep in mind, no midi and no patch saving. You can get a tubbutec upgrade for it that adds midi and lots of other nice things for it
Old 15th June 2018
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
What were the problems, besides the voice count, that made the Minilogue not appropriate for pads?
One limitation that I would find annoying, particularly in that role, is the inability to hook up a sustain pedal. With four voices, if you have anything other than a pretty short release, you'll get noticeable voice stealing when moving from one chord to another if you have more than two notes in your chords. I suppose for some modern electronic music where the chords never change that would not be a concern, but I'm a bit more of a traditionalist myself and I like harmonic motion.

The modulation possibilities are also somewhat limited, although the motion sequencer can make up for a lot of that in many situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
I've been looking at the DeepMind 12, there are a few around me locally. How much editing takes place in menus? I was going over the front panel, but I can't really pick up how one goes about editing the thing. I see there are edit switches you have to engage, is it that you press the edit switch on a module and that allows you to move the sliders or what?
I haven't used one personally, but from what I grok based on videos etc. you have immediate control over several of the basic parameters with the sliders and buttons, and pressing the edit button for the section brings up on the screen the more detailed/less frequently used/"deeper" parameters for that section. The envelope controls, for example, directly manipulate the standard ADSR settings, but from the menu one can adjust other stuff like the shape of the attack curve. (I do have experience using the Berhinger X32 mixer, which has a somewhat similar sort of setup, and there it works out quite well once one gets a little bit of familiarity with it.)
Old 15th June 2018
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
apessino's Avatar
I have a DeepMind 12 (module) - can't believe I didn't think of that when replying first.

I actually think that the UX design of the DeepMind is GENIUS. Yes there is a bit of menuing going on, you'd think so given the astonishing depth of parametrization on hand, but in practice it is actually quite enjoyable and "smooth" to program (you know what I mean). At least until you get to the FX section - it's all menus there. Then again there is a fantastic editor you can use if you really want to edit the FX deeply, you can run it from your PC or even on your iPad using WIFI. It all works great - really well engineered system.

It is a great synth, sounds awesome and a crazy amount of thought has obviously been put into making it satisfying to use. As much as I love the Mini, and given that you have a Mono, I'd definitely put the DM at the top of the list.
Old 15th June 2018
  #38
Gear Nut
 

I'm going to go against your no VA rule. You shouldn't rule them out. I have an Audiothingies Micromonsta sitting on top of my Korg Prolouge 16 and while it's not as fat and lush as it or my DSI Rev 2 , it will do pads and polys for a whole lot less money, and be big and thick if you want it to be. I'd actually use it for that before I reached for the Korg or the DSI. Sweeter top end (its like molasses sweet) than my 2 Blofelds, or the Virus TI2, not as nasty as a Parva, the top end feels gushy like a great analog. I haven't even missed the reverb it doesn't have. Stupid great synth for the money. Reminds me of a cross between my old AX-80 and a DW-8000. Maybe those 2 are not everyone's cup of lush, I can tell you from experience they sit just fine in any track. The Micromonsta is fun to play, you can get lost in it. Hard to say that about a lot these days.
Old 15th June 2018
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
I have/have had many digital synths, wavetable, wavesequencing, transwave, FM, PM, additive, etc. Not to mention all the VSTs. However, I currently only have 1 analog, and I've never had, at least all to myself, an analog poly. I'd like something to fill that niche.
OK, that is actually a good reason.
Sorry i can't suggest anything, because i don't think there are any good sounding analogs in your price range that would have high enough polyphony for pads.
DM12 Module is still above the price bracket and if you want to have "2 saws in 1 voice", you need to use 2 voices unison, so only 6 voice poly left.
REV2 would be my answer if it didnt cost 3 times more than you are willing to pay.
Old 15th June 2018
  #40
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
Looking for a knobby (or great matrix interface ala Ensoniq synths or Waldorf Blofeld) analog (no hybrids, no VAs, nothing digital) poly (atleast 4 voices) with at least 2 Oscs, something like cross mod/sync/fm, and a nice warm sound.

$600 and under.
Sorry man, wrong decade.

/thread
Old 15th June 2018
  #41
Gear Nut
 
theJPdude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
That’s just not true. The second oscillator is square wave only, and the PWM is a bit lacking, IMO, but you can totally use it as a sub oscillator or in a true two detuned oscillator mode. It just won’t give you two detuned sawtooths, unless you do the unison trick that you’re talking about.
You're absolutely right - I completely got stupid for a day. I am not sure what I was thinking; must've been in the mindset of two full oscillator for unison detune or something.
Old 15th June 2018
  #42
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
ATM, I can get a JX-8P and a programmer for ~605 locally. Though I'm surprised to see so many prefer the Minilogue's sound to the JX-8P. That makes me much less attracted to it. However, I feel odd having a Minilogue and Monologue. I, for whatever reason, like to have a diverse set of tools. But I guess sometimes you have to ignore these sort of principles for practical reasons.




I have/have had many digital synths, wavetable, wavesequencing, transwave, FM, PM, additive, etc. Not to mention all the VSTs. However, I currently only have 1 analog, and I've never had, at least all to myself, an analog poly. I'd like something to fill that niche.




What were the problems, besides the voice count, that made the Minilogue not appropriate for pads?




I love the ESQ-1, and am in talks to buy one of these (and a TS-12) at the moment. I had a VFX before, and I've always liked Ensoniq boards. However, I am looking for something else here. Very basic, standard pads, typically described on these forums as "lush," and, "warm." And I want the sound to come from a 100% analog poly, as I currently don't have that in my palette.




Is it possible to reach all of the Tetras parameters from the front panel? Also, are all parameters MIDI controllable?



Can you say more about some typical criticisms of the JX-8P? I actually searched this forum before I made this thread about its reception, and it's a controversial synth to say the least. However, because people using somewhat vague descriptions of its sound, or general hate about DCOS, I'm not sure what to expect. The demos sound quite nice to me.




I've been looking at the DeepMind 12, there are a few around me locally. How much editing takes place in menus? I was going over the front panel, but I can't really pick up how one goes about editing the thing. I see there are edit switches you have to engage, is it that you press the edit switch on a module and that allows you to move the sliders or what?




I forgot about those! Thanks, I'll be on the look out.




I love ROLAND Boutique, but they are too small. I hadn't thought about the Reface CS. I may not buy it to satiate this particular itch, but it does sound good to me.
Well, it's hard for me to back those criticisms due to the fact that I've learned to love it and have no issues with it now,

I guess what people don't like, is that it isn't really simple to get a great bedrock "synth sound" out of the box,

If you try it for the first time and start going through the presets, you probably won't be very happy, you'll probably like.....is it "Low Brass?" or "Power Brass?" and you'll probably like "soundtrack" maybe "analog Poly" but other than that you will be generally unimpressed, from there you'll start playing with the filter, and filter envelope and notice less self-resonance than you would have liked (I believe it has the same filter as the Alpha Junos?) You'll detune Ocl 2 and think...."Maaybee" and probably find the controls at your disposal don't seem to really push the sound far enough to satisfy you.......and honestly, I think this is as much work as 90% of people put into the JX8P.....because when you learn to program it, it can absoloutly be your bread and butter analog, but it takes WORK, and synth people don't like WORK, they want everything to be easy and resent a synth that doesn't make life easy on them....

.....Here, I know how to figure this out, there is a free plugin emulation of the JX8P, the PGX8 I think.....it ALSO doubles as an on-screen real-time controller for JX8P's (I.E you can use CC's to control the parameters on the plugin which it will translate to sysex for real-time hands-on tweaking with the JX8P

Download that, and listen to the banks of patches that guy has programmed, if you like what you are hearing, the JX8P is for you because the real thing sounds even better, but if those patches still don't do it for you, skip it

I understand most of the negativity surrounding the JX8P seems to be coming from people who are too lazy to learn how to use it (It's not hard) or people who use the "DCO" excuse as a cover for their own laziness and lack of talent, and because of that it is imperative that you make the call yourself (Because you might be one of them)

But download that plugin and it will give you a really good idea of where you can go..........personally, I think you'll be buying one soon after, as when you hear how it sounds in capable hands you realize that all the whining was B.S

So go check it out, it might end up being YOUR synth after all
Old 15th June 2018
  #43
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theJPdude View Post
You're absolutely right - I completely got stupid for a day. I am not sure what I was thinking; must've been in the mindset of two full oscillator for unison detune or something.
Yeah, I dont’ think anyone here doesn’t wish the Deepmind would have had two identical oscillators, but it is what it is. I also forgot to mention that on the square wave oscillator, you do get that other parameter... I forget the name, kind of a waveshaper. It does kind of make up for the lack of second sawtooth, and extend the sonic range of the Deepmind.

I’m not trying to cut the Deepmind down, or be hyperbolic in the other direction either. If you’re looking for the ultimate analog poly, keep looking. I’d say that even VA synths like the System 8 or Nord Lead A1 do a better job. One of the reasons I ditched the Deepmind was that I honestly thought the Roland Cloud software sounded better, and my Tetras sound more interesting. That said, for very little money, it has some tricks up its sleeve that nothing else does, at least in hardware. Having that effect section, and having it tied into the (generous) mod system, is huge.
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