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Crazy idea: Maybe Behringer should clone the C64 SID chip under the CoolAudio brand. MIDI Processors
Old 14th June 2018
  #1
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ArtFluids's Avatar
 

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Crazy idea: Maybe Behringer should clone the C64 SID chip under the CoolAudio brand.

This is kind of a crazy idea, but I know there's a pretty decent demand for SID chips, to the point where people sometimes buy C64's just to desolder them out.

There's tons of DIY and commercial products that use the SID chip, but you usually have to supply your own, which is getting increasingly difficult.

It might not really be a viable venture whatsoever, it's hard to really gauge the demand on this one. Could be a lot of overhead for a niche product. I'm not going to pretend I can comprehend the economics of it.

I'm just saying while Behringer is open to ideas, this might be an interesting one seeing as they've already got IC production going under the CoolAudio name. Maybe even a semi modular synth with a CoolAudio SID at the heart, like the Neutron. Hopefully with enough inputs for you to compose whole songs with CV/Gate sequencing of the chip. Use it to its true multitimbral potential.

The thing is, a lot of the stuff people REALLY like about the SID sound is down to how it was controlled by the system, digital control over the SID's parameters.
Old 14th June 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
... Hopefully with enough inputs for you to compose whole songs with CV/Gate sequencing of the chip. Use it to its true multitimbral potential.
multitimbral? it's a 3-osc synth on a chip.
Old 14th June 2018
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
multitimbral? it's a 3-osc synth on a chip.
It has three separate envelopes and VCA's for the oscillators so they can act independently. Only one shared filter though. The three channels are intended to be sequenced independently for creating musical compositions. It's not supposed to be treated as a three oscillator single-voice.
Old 14th June 2018
  #4
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jbuonacc's Avatar
ahh, i see what you mean. still, a lot of the sound was heavily dependant on the software end of it (instrument tables, etc). can you achieve that flexibilty via cv control?
Old 14th June 2018
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
ahh, i see what you mean. still, a lot of the sound was heavily dependant on the software end of it (instrument tables, etc). can you achieve that flexibilty via cv control?
Yeah there's a lot of the SID "sound" that's down to digital control. That's why most SID synths are run with a microcontroller. So it probably wouldn't be that interesting as just a SID chip alone. Would need some utilities.
Old 14th June 2018
  #6
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Yoozer's Avatar
SwinSID - C64-Wiki

Here is a virtual analog SID clone.

As said a lot of sound character comes from intricate modulation tricks. You can't even load all SID files in a tracker.
Old 14th June 2018
  #7
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I sent Uli a message about this maybe a year ago lol.
Old 8th August 2018
  #8
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SwinSID is close but no cigar. It really needs a VCF...

There's also this: The FPGASID Project (but again no VCF, however filters are SPICE emulated so it could be decent).
Old 8th August 2018
  #9
Gear Head
 

Clone Paula with 4 separate outputs
Old 8th August 2018
  #10
Gear Maniac
I would love to see the clone of the filter itself.
Old 8th August 2018
  #11
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They would sell a whole hundred of them.
Old 8th August 2018
  #12
Gear Nut
 

The SID requires a different process (NMOS - early digital logic) than the other chips that CoolAudio are doing (which tend to be based on BJT transistors - in particular, chips with lots of OTAs).

A modern 8580 is probably doable, but a 6581 remake would need to have the same NMOS silicon grades and doping as the 1982-1986 originals, in order to have the same gate shutdown curves, which are what makes the 6581 filter so unique (and so different from other VCFs).
Old 8th August 2018
  #13
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmadbrain View Post
The SID requires a different process (NMOS - early digital logic) than the other chips that CoolAudio are doing (which tend to be based on BJT transistors - in particular, chips with lots of OTAs).

A modern 8580 is probably doable, but a 6581 remake would need to have the same NMOS silicon grades and doping as the 1982-1986 originals, in order to have the same gate shutdown curves, which are what makes the 6581 filter so unique (and so different from other VCFs).
So just curious...do you think it could be likely that a modern digital simulation of SID might actually sound more like the original SID than a modern hardware version?
Old 8th August 2018
  #14
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If done properly (like for example u-he Repro-1/5, Synapse Audio Legend, Monark, and what Roland's doing with their plugins), it could.
Old 8th August 2018
  #15
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Weren't there 1/1 emulations of the whole computer that used that chip ?
Old 8th August 2018
  #16
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goom's Avatar
 

Shouldn't have sold my SidStation.
Old 8th August 2018
  #17
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Get TherapSID!
Old 9th August 2018
  #18
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I'd buy one.

There are dozens of us, dozens I say.
Old 9th August 2018
  #19
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I don't think just audio enthusiasts would buy one. There's a lot of Commodore fanatics out there that love their C64s and C128s and having a stock of replacement SIDs would always be great to have. So I think it could easily be sold in thousands.
Old 9th August 2018
  #20
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Well that's encouraging. ^
Old 9th August 2018
  #21
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I built a custom SID synth with 8 SIDs running as a 4 voice synth in true stereo.
8 outs, 8 ins (for processing sounds through its filters) and a 4 octave keyboard and custom laser cut chassis modelled on the Moog Source

The fundamental engine MidiBox, a great platform.

The SID is awesome, but it does have flaws.
It's VCA has an inherent delay making it a bit sloppy (but there are workarounds)
The OSC do distort the filter easily.. this is good, but it is difficult to get away from.

There are also a few revisions of SID to consider, each having a slightly different tone / filter
Old 9th August 2018
  #22
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Old 9th August 2018
  #23
Is there a schematic available what's going on inside the SID chip, or at least it's filter?
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