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Moog Grandmother Semi-Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 1 week ago
  #571
Here for the gear
 

Funny how easily you guys justify the cost of this thing. 900.00, that's not to bad for what you get. You shouldn't have to pay more for patch memory? Look into Moog's RAC - Real Analog Control system. They have a cross between the real analog controller and the digital controller, and a CPU to switch between the two when you toggle the knobs giving you as stated above, real analog control over the instrument. So the digital control interference with the signal is a non-issue. I would hope for what they're charging that the modulation of it self would be huge over the 32. If not, your paying a lot for a retro case and keybed, with spring reverb. 900.00 isn't horrible, but the moog site has it at 999.00, while the sellers are knocking 100.00 off of that. So far as how the sub phatty sounds compared to this, I'm sure given the sub phatty has a feature of improved scale accuracy that it loses a little of that drifty charm perhaps, but I don't hear it. Other than that I doubt this synth really pulls any sonic tricks the sub phatty can't. But when you can get a sub phatty used for 600.00 and less, almost got one for 500.00 w/shipping. What on the grandmother urges you to waste 300.00 more dollars on it? CV? 2nd, limited OSC? You get like 4/5 waveforms to select on the grandmother, while the sub phatty gives you 2 Variable waveform OSC's, giving you the ability to basically pulse width modulate the waveforms and shift their shape giving you more tonal options. I've played the behringer D and yes I would say there is a kind of feel to the tone of a pure analog old school style of synth over the very tight and accurate performance of the Sub Phatty's control, but the soul is still the same, you just have a very scalpel like control over your parameters allowing you to get precise results, which has it's benefits.

I've owned a minibrute and if your main synth doesn't have patch memory, have fun recording your albums. A lot of big artists play this game, but unless your making money enjoy the tedious job of patch recall from photo's that eats up a lot of time when you add it up. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that question. If your limited on time, it will frustrate you unless your knowledgable enough in synthesis that you know how to get exactly what you want or your happy with whatever you come up with, which is more fun. And when you have to throw in the patch cables too, the fun really begins when you want to do that accross multiple synths. I'm not trying to trash the synth it self in any way. I do firmly believe from my limited experience (compared to most of the people on here) that you have to find your own way, your own passion, and your own style. And for those that believe this is their machine I salute you, but I also smack you if you think you should pay this much for this synth.

I'd say see if it goes on sale, wait 6 months for better demo's and the inevitable used options that will come soon enough. Unless your already knee deep in modular, I really haven't heard anything amazing from the mother 32, that you can't do on a non modular synth, but that's it, do you need/prefer the modular capability? I'd wait on this and wouldn't pay more than 6-650.00, tell me how much more it does than the Minibrute 2, and don't worry about gloating about moog being superior in sound, just stick to features. Oh yeah, the jean jacket!! I haven't seen it yet, but it couldn't have costed more than 20.00 to manufacture it, even if it is heavily embroidered. I'll have to go to my garage and pull up the old catalog/poster I have from them when I visited their booth at a gearshow, I think that cartoon synth character on the poster side basically looks like what the grandmother is. Anyone else know what poster I'm refering to?
Old 1 week ago
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue5 View Post
...So far as how the sub phatty sounds compared to this, I'm sure given the sub phatty has a feature of improved scale accuracy that it loses a little of that drifty charm perhaps, but I don't hear it. Other than that I doubt this synth really pulls any sonic tricks the sub phatty can't.
...
I'd say the patch points, all with audio rate capability, puts the GM in a different territory than the SP, both sound and work flow wise.
Old 1 week ago
  #573
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue5 View Post

I've owned a minibrute and if your main synth doesn't have patch memory, have fun recording your albums. A lot of big artists play this game, but unless your making money enjoy the tedious job of patch recall from photo's that eats up a lot of time when you add it up. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that question. If your limited on time, it will frustrate you unless your knowledgable enough in synthesis that you know how to get exactly what you want or your happy with whatever you come up with, which is more fun.
Yes, I can make a bass or lead sound quickly from having experience with analog synths.
Also, if you are making an album, craft the sound and record it. Move on, you don't need to recreate it using photographs.
Old 1 week ago
  #574
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac_music View Post
They are all subtractive synthesizers, and they're all mono. They all share some components which leads to that sound. They don't sound "very" different. They sound "very" similar. Very different is a piano vs a moog. Very different is a car vs a bicycle. Very different is a house vs a tree.

They LOOK very different. Your brain is telling you that it must sound so different and the more expensive ones have a "better" sound. But in the end, nobody will notice the difference between your sub37 and minimoog. You could probably make almost the same exact sound on each of your synths. The only difference is some will be limited, like the Mother32 having only 1 osc. Their drive might be a little different. I owned a few Phatties and currently own a Mother32, so I'm not talking out of my ass. They're subtractive mono synths, end of story, nothing to see here.

Now you are just arguing semantics about the degrees of the word VERY. They all sound quite different to me but yes they are all subtractive synthesizers-- kind of like how there are lots of different violins out there each with its own character and timbre.

My band and I can tell which synth I was using on a particular jam just by ear years after the jam. They are all that different. I love Moog synths as instruments, not tools. They are instruments with certain characteristics that is true, but there is a lot of character and personality unique to each one.

The Sub 37 is particularly unique in its quality of sound. It is sooo dark and muffled and burnt sounding. I always switch to that at certain points in a jam where we enter a very dark mysterious mood and feeling. When it was the only synth I had we thought our band just was dark and moody by nature but that totally changed when I got the Model D and that sound opened up a totally different mood and feeling and greatly changed the nature of the band.

Maybe it is different if you are just using a synth to create blips and beeps but I use mine as bass instruments in an instrumental jam band and the character of each synth really shines through in that setting greatly.
Old 1 week ago
  #575
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue5 View Post
I'd say <snip> <snip> <snip> ...
You seem terribly concerned about what a bunch of strangers on the internet may spend their money and time on. Or perhaps you're struggling with what you feel the impact of the Grandmother will be on your own perceived value of your gear. Thank you for your concern.

My advice in return to you is this: go play your gear and have fun. You're spending a lot of words on a synth that seems to have no appeal to you, and not making any really cogent points to support your position.

Quote:
I'd wait on this and wouldn't pay more than 6-650.00, tell me how much more it does than the Minibrute 2, and don't worry about gloating about moog being superior in sound, just stick to features.
We're also adults capable of forming opinions of what value is to us and what we can afford, and we are not required to justify it to anyone, let alone to someone with self-professed "limited experience".

Quote:
Oh yeah, the jean jacket!! I haven't seen it yet, but it couldn't have costed more than 20.00 to manufacture it, even if it is heavily embroidered.
You're talking about what's basically a freebie for those that purchase the Grandmother at Moogfest this week. It has no bearing on the value or cost of the synthesizer. But if it makes you feel better, you could always take your $20 and make your own jean jacket featuring your gear.
Old 1 week ago
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I don't get the easel comparisons at all.
If you're referring to my posts, I'm not referring in any way to how they sound. They are VERY, VERY different sounding synths, (though based on the features that both posses, you could, with some work, make some similar sounds on both.

In my posts, I was contrasting them as much as comparing.

However, they have a nearly one to one feature set, and you can do similar things with them, though obviously the Easel is going to have the complex tone generation, randomization, and experimental patching ethos, while the Grandmother will have your more traditional subtractive style work-flow.

I actually don't see how one COULDN'T compare them to some degree.

They also have very different human interfaces, but there are also some undeniable similarities there too.

I don't like throwing around the East / West thing, as there are so many other synth makers even from a similar time period all over the place, and so many other important styles of synthesis. However, when I'm thinking about Buchla and Moog specifically, and how they both differ and have great similarities, and developed their systems thousands of miles from each other in a time where communication wasn't instantaneous (barring maybe long phone conversations...) I'm fascinated by how different their products are, but also all the similarities.

In my mind it makes perfect sense to draw parallels, compare products, contrast products between the two people, the two companies, and even the people that play their instruments.

A Moog is not a Buchla and vice versa.

The main point that I was trying to make in the first place, is that one could pick up both the Grandmother and the Easel, and have a cool little East meets West setup, based on minimal, self-contained instruments from the two classic companies that represent what would be come "East and West Coast Synthesis" in historical terms, and make some very interesting music playing each instrument off of the other, and maybe even patching them together, filling in gaps that each instrument has over the other.

There are undeniable similarities in what each of these instruments does. There are also gigantic differences. I also acknowledge that the Easel was actually designed by Don, while the Grandmother was not designed by Bob. That said, I could see this product coming from Bob in the current synth climate. There's nothing un-Moog about the Grandmother, so I'm comfortable exploring these ideas. Maybe I just have a different point of view, but it's clear to me.
Old 1 week ago
  #577
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On the discussion of price, I think it's sitting exactly where it should be.
Old 1 week ago
  #578
Lives for gear
 

When you buy a mono synth, you buy it for its toneful character. And every one has a different tonal character.

So you choose, ultimately, for that reason.

The next most important thing is how it feels to you.

The value of all that is yours to decide.

If it's what you really want, any price you can afford is justifiable.

If it's not, it's "too expensive."

If it's what you really want but you can't afford it...... It's "too expensive."

I think those complaining on price on GS are mostly in that last category.
Old 1 week ago
  #579
Gear Nut
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricera View Post


Someone noodling.
Definitely straight out the seventies. Sounds great to my ears.
It only has hours into existence but sounds like it has 200 years... That´s a cool machine
Old 1 week ago
  #580
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Ill deffinatly be buying one of these next year.ive not been intrested in moog stuff ever since they moved there outputs and other connectors too the side panels.
I couldn't stand it I thought it was a very ugly and poor idea too have all your cables visable like that.
But this new one has all its connections around the back as they should be
My only reservation is the name ..why call it godmother ?
I just hope there not playing to those idiot sjws and virtue signalling.

But I like the features..sound..retro design and patch ability.with it having a USB port will it have some kind of librarian coming out with it like there other gear?its not a buzz kill for me but it'd be nice to have some kind of recall.
But if it doesn't thats fine
Old 1 week ago
  #581
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3rk View Post
There are undeniable similarities in what each of these instruments does.
They have a few similar things. But they have overwhelmingly different things. Including the sound, the way you interact with it, the voltages within the machine (which probably makes it difficult to interface with Moog), the separation of voltage and audio.
Old 1 week ago
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonfocius View Post
this isn't twitter...
Old 1 week ago
  #583
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More information from Moog .... the "standard" version is going to be the same as the Moogfest version but without the badge and jacket.
Old 1 week ago
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
They have a few similar things. But they have overwhelmingly different things. Including the sound, the way you interact with it, the voltages within the machine (which probably makes it difficult to interface with Moog), the separation of voltage and audio.
Of course they sound different. Of course you interact differently with them. They are made by two companies with completely different design ideals.

They are COMPLEMENTARY. You can make music entirely on either one, or what I'm getting at here, is that both would provide a VERY wide palette of sound to work with including two very prevalent and popular (these days anyway) styles of synthesis. Each can be patched. Each has sequencing. Each has ways to make complex sounds with very little circuitry. Each provides something that the other does not. Each is fairly self contained. I'm sorry if you can't see that these would work VERY well together. To me, mixing the two of these would be like a different version of mixing two different Elektron boxes like an A4 and a Digitone. Very different synthesis, different interactions, but complement each other well. (granted, that example lies within a single company)

You might as well say that ANY other synth shouldn't be brought up in ANY thread about a particular synth, if you can't see why these might be discussed together.
Old 1 week ago
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PES View Post
Bump


Edit: so, anyone else working on a list of things to potentally sell in order to get this?
A third of the things in my house in a yardsell next saturday.
Old 1 week ago
  #586
I don't get why some people dislike the colours/look. The way I see it, it's a creative tool, why shouldn't it look creative?
Increasingly, I find the formulaic black metal with wood endcheeks design, mindnumbingly boring to look at. It's like they can't think of anything better, so they just do what everybody else is doing.

Which is why I did the following to my Minilogue, described by another in here as looking like an oompa loompa threw up on it...
Lets be honest, it's not pretty. But I grin everytime I look at it, and it inspires me. Can you honestly say the same with the formulaic black&wood synths?
Attached Thumbnails
Moog Grandmother Semi-Modular-3.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #587
Lives for gear
 

hand made, by Satan (or chicks that drink blood). Thanks but no thanks.



Old 1 week ago
  #588
Gear Maniac
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac_music View Post
They are all subtractive synthesizers, and they're all mono. They all share some components which leads to that sound. They don't sound "very" different. They sound "very" similar. Very different is a piano vs a moog. Very different is a car vs a bicycle. Very different is a house vs a tree.

They LOOK very different. Your brain is telling you that it must sound so different and the more expensive ones have a "better" sound. But in the end, nobody will notice the difference between your sub37 and minimoog. You could probably make almost the same exact sound on each of your synths. The only difference is some will be limited, like the Mother32 having only 1 osc. Their drive might be a little different. I owned a few Phatties and currently own a Mother32, so I'm not talking out of my ass. They're subtractive mono synths, end of story, nothing to see here.
You are sounding like a government coverup ;P
Old 1 week ago
  #589
Gear Maniac
 
j3rk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raffivegas View Post
hand made, by Satan (or chicks that drink blood). Thanks but no thanks.



Satan knows how to build a good synth. I think he prefers banana jacks though... These 3.5mm jacks make me think a lesser minion was involved.
Old 1 week ago
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwaxxy View Post
...
But I like the features..sound..retro design and patch ability.with it having a USB port will it have some kind of librarian coming out with it like there other gear?its not a buzz kill for me but it'd be nice to have some kind of recall.
But if it doesn't thats fine
All the pots and latching switches are purely analogue, so they can't be part of a recall scheme.

However, somewhat to my surprise, in addition to the usual MIDI stuff you'd expect like mod wheel and pitch bend, there is actually a range of parameters that can be controlled by CC or RPN. These are the parameters that use analogue switches and microcontroller generated CV internally.

So, using appropriate software you can have control and/or recall of those parameters. Here is the list taken from the manual:

PITCH WHEEL
MOD WHEEL
MODULATION RATE
GLIDE TIME
ARP/SEQ RATE
OSCILLATOR 2 FREQUENCY
GLIDE ON/OFF
ARP/SEQ HOLD
ARP/SEQ PLAY
OSCILLATOR 1 OCTAVE
OSCILLATOR 2 OCTAVE
OSCILLATOR 2 SYNC
GLIDE TYPE CC
KEYBOARD OCTAVE
ARP/SEQ CLOCK DIVISION
ARP/SEQ MODE
ARP/SEQ PATTERN
ARP RANGE/SEQ NUMBER
LEGATO GLIDE
GATED GLIDE
PITCH BEND UP AMT
PITCH BEND DOWN AMT
KB TRANSPOSE (SEMITONES)
PITCH BEND AMOUNT
FINE TUNING
COARSE TUNING
SUSTAIN PEDAL MIDI
LOCAL CONTROL ON/OFF
ALL SOUNDS OFF / ALL NOTES OFF
Old 1 week ago
  #591
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3rk View Post
You might as well say that ANY other synth shouldn't be brought up in ANY thread about a particular synth, if you can't see why these might be discussed together.
Actually the opposite.....
There are so many self contained East Coast style synths I wonder why this Moog one strikes you as a perfect compliment to an Easel.
I also don't know why we're talking about a $4000 synth in a thread where people are having to justify a $900 price tag for the Grandmother.
Old 1 week ago
  #592
Lives for gear
 

It's all right, people yelled at me not long ago for daring to suggest Roland's layering of synth Tones was in itself not unlike modular in its flexibility, with the variety of Structures available to organize things.....

That's one helluva MIDI CC list, Doc Justice!

I hope people will begin to realize that with the applicability of the arp/seq to so many different things, that along with the analogue LFO that goes well into osc frequency range (Mother-32, being younger, only goes by default to 350Hz), you have one GrandmotherFoogering of a modulation matrix to play with! Along with two oscs, an envelope that can control both filter and VCA if desired, and a Sustain slider that allows you to do rapid, manual blips in performance.

Wake up, folks: this is all genius.
Old 1 week ago
  #593
Lives for gear
Why is price always brought up? Gearslutz always seems like the cheapest place. "I want it all but I don't want to pay"... serious. Why not just judge on the sound quality... I'm really excited to hear if this sounds like the 900s series. I got unlucky when I tried to buy one from GC yesterday and had GC's incompetence screw me over 3 times! First time...after confirming email, didn't send it to the right email. Second guy, after fixing the email, didn't send out the order. Third guy...let me know the next fulfillment was in 3 weeks...after they said they had one in stock for me. ugh.

le sigh. no jean jacket for me.

But anyway, did anyone buy one who has actual 900 module experience?
Old 1 week ago
  #594
Gear Maniac
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor View Post
Thanks DrJ! Man, that is now difficult to resist. I kind of have trouble to integrate all my Monos into my workflow how it is. Not sure if I want to get another one, but the GrandMother is really something.

How do I tell my wife???
Tell her either your mother moves in with you, or The Grandmother does.
Old 1 week ago
  #595
Gear Maniac
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_the_Darc View Post
I don't get why some people dislike the colours/look. The way I see it, it's a creative tool, why shouldn't it look creative?
Increasingly, I find the formulaic black metal with wood endcheeks design, mindnumbingly boring to look at. It's like they can't think of anything better, so they just do what everybody else is doing.


Which is why I did the following to my Minilogue, described by another in here as looking like an oompa loompa threw up on it...
Lets be honest, it's not pretty. But I grin everytime I look at it, and it inspires me. Can you honestly say the same with the formulaic black&wood synths?

I personally love it, if you ever want to sell/trade it let me know.
Old 1 week ago
  #596
Gear Maniac
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raffivegas View Post
hand made, by Satan (or chicks that drink blood). Thanks but no thanks.



You just made me want it more......jerk! My money!!!!! D: Maybe I am just biased since my GF (future wife) is a vampire.
Old 1 week ago
  #597
Gear Maniac
 
j3rk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Actually the opposite.....
There are so many self contained East Coast style synths I wonder why this Moog one strikes you as a perfect compliment to an Easel.
I also don't know why we're talking about a $4000 synth in a thread where people are having to justify a $900 price tag for the Grandmother.
I figured I could discuss anything I like within reason.

As far as why I think it's a good complement? I think I've already stated it several times, but it's precisely because of the exact combination of differences AND similarities. It's really as simple as that. I could even include things like the Synthi AKS, Hornet, Portabella, or maybe a Serge Animal and TKB in a case, in this discussion. Maybe even a Makenoise Shared System or Verbos system. Maybe rounding it out further like that might help illustrate what I'm thinking. I like self-contained, focused single-manufacturer systems. It's an interest of mine. Grandmother falls into this category. There are others out there. Maybe I look at these things differently because I'm very closely acquainted with what's inside of them. Maybe I see this differently because I'm thinking about the circuits themselves as much as the sound or interface. I've designed self-contained patchable synths in cases inspired by things like the Easel. The Grandmother is kind of inspiring in the same way. I don't know how I can relate it to you any more than I've tried with words, so I think I'll give up. It makes perfect sense to me though. Sorry if you can't make the leap. Maybe you don't even want to. And that's fine too. I really don't NEED to convince anyone. I was simply chatting about something that I saw/noticed.

Does it bother you in some way that this is how I think? Am I intruding on your personal synth-sensibilities?



I know you're a Buchla user (nice system too) and maybe you're coming at this thinking "what's this goofy little Moog got on Buchla?" I can see that. I find Buchla (and Serge and Wiard for that matter) very inspiring. I don't see it as competitive in any way though, which is why I also don't use the price of the two to make my comparisons. They're both what I would consider to be inspiring instruments, that I personally think would make very nice music together. Maybe you'd choose another pairing. Totally fine. There's DEFINITELY room to discuss these things though, if you ask me.

How about if they took this out of the case, put it all behind a nice aluminum panel, and sunk it into a zero case, and charge an extra grand or two? Then the form factors would be similar, the functionality, somewhat equivalent, but still with the vast difference in sound? Actually, I'd be way into that. :D Though maybe a couple of additional features, like more waveforms on the VCOs, and maybe a separate random source, or sample and hold.
Old 1 week ago
  #598
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue5 View Post
Funny how easily you guys justify the cost of this thing. 900.00, that's not to bad for what you get. You shouldn't have to pay more for patch memory? Look into Moog's RAC - Real Analog Control system. They have a cross between the real analog controller and the digital controller, and a CPU to switch between the two when you toggle the knobs giving you as stated above, real analog control over the instrument. So the digital control interference with the signal is a non-issue. I would hope for what they're charging that the modulation of it self would be huge over the 32. If not, your paying a lot for a retro case and keybed, with spring reverb. 900.00 isn't horrible, but the moog site has it at 999.00, while the sellers are knocking 100.00 off of that. So far as how the sub phatty sounds compared to this, I'm sure given the sub phatty has a feature of improved scale accuracy that it loses a little of that drifty charm perhaps, but I don't hear it. Other than that I doubt this synth really pulls any sonic tricks the sub phatty can't. But when you can get a sub phatty used for 600.00 and less, almost got one for 500.00 w/shipping. What on the grandmother urges you to waste 300.00 more dollars on it? CV? 2nd, limited OSC? You get like 4/5 waveforms to select on the grandmother, while the sub phatty gives you 2 Variable waveform OSC's, giving you the ability to basically pulse width modulate the waveforms and shift their shape giving you more tonal options. I've played the behringer D and yes I would say there is a kind of feel to the tone of a pure analog old school style of synth over the very tight and accurate performance of the Sub Phatty's control, but the soul is still the same, you just have a very scalpel like control over your parameters allowing you to get precise results, which has it's benefits.

I've owned a minibrute and if your main synth doesn't have patch memory, have fun recording your albums. A lot of big artists play this game, but unless your making money enjoy the tedious job of patch recall from photo's that eats up a lot of time when you add it up. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that question. If your limited on time, it will frustrate you unless your knowledgable enough in synthesis that you know how to get exactly what you want or your happy with whatever you come up with, which is more fun. And when you have to throw in the patch cables too, the fun really begins when you want to do that accross multiple synths. I'm not trying to trash the synth it self in any way. I do firmly believe from my limited experience (compared to most of the people on here) that you have to find your own way, your own passion, and your own style. And for those that believe this is their machine I salute you, but I also smack you if you think you should pay this much for this synth.

I'd say see if it goes on sale, wait 6 months for better demo's and the inevitable used options that will come soon enough. Unless your already knee deep in modular, I really haven't heard anything amazing from the mother 32, that you can't do on a non modular synth, but that's it, do you need/prefer the modular capability? I'd wait on this and wouldn't pay more than 6-650.00, tell me how much more it does than the Minibrute 2, and don't worry about gloating about moog being superior in sound, just stick to features. Oh yeah, the jean jacket!! I haven't seen it yet, but it couldn't have costed more than 20.00 to manufacture it, even if it is heavily embroidered. I'll have to go to my garage and pull up the old catalog/poster I have from them when I visited their booth at a gearshow, I think that cartoon synth character on the poster side basically looks like what the grandmother is. Anyone else know what poster I'm refering to?

I really want it but being kinda poor I am gonna wait to get a used one cheaper one day. I think instead, for now I would get a Neutron and a Blofeld. (hides from arrows and bullets)
Old 1 week ago
  #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinstower View Post
Now you are just arguing semantics about the degrees of the word VERY. They all sound quite different to me but yes they are all subtractive synthesizers-- kind of like how there are lots of different violins out there each with its own character and timbre.

My band and I can tell which synth I was using on a particular jam just by ear years after the jam. They are all that different. I love Moog synths as instruments, not tools. They are instruments with certain characteristics that is true, but there is a lot of character and personality unique to each one.

The Sub 37 is particularly unique in its quality of sound. It is sooo dark and muffled and burnt sounding. I always switch to that at certain points in a jam where we enter a very dark mysterious mood and feeling. When it was the only synth I had we thought our band just was dark and moody by nature but that totally changed when I got the Model D and that sound opened up a totally different mood and feeling and greatly changed the nature of the band.

Maybe it is different if you are just using a synth to create blips and beeps but I use mine as bass instruments in an instrumental jam band and the character of each synth really shines through in that setting greatly.
Everytime I see people say the analog synths all sound similar makes me wonder if they can hear properly...so I def agree with you.
Old 1 week ago
  #600
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One can get to a point where any synthesis -- well, as long as it's subtractive, and not sample-based -- even granular, is simply a question of signal modulation at a variety of rates, across a sustained signal path to output.

oscillator, filter, amp, lfo, keyboard, gate, trigger, all the modular things.... well, they're all just signal control devices. Even clocks. Clocks simply output pulsed control signals at a certain regular, repeatable rate.

I learned this many years ago with my Nord Modular. Oh, and saturating myself in Curtis Roads' The Computer Tutorial, including the hard math-y parts. And Dodge & Jerse's Computer Music, that is another good source. Roads' work is kind of like an extensive bibliography, in a way, so a good starting point, if nothing else, to pointing to all the other writing and research that has gone into the development of electronic musical instruments. You can go as far beyond that starting point as time and the internet and Amazon books allows you. I ended up going quite far. It was fun! I reached the end of the Internet! It's a dark, scary place.....

Once you _free yourself_ from being tied to any of the conventions of how that signal control is handled, anything and everything becomes possible, and it's simply a question of the interest different combinations can provide in sonic and performance result.

With infinite time, space and money, you could buy all the modular things, and have every possibility at your disposal. With infinite time and less space and money, you could delve deep into Reaktor and invent all your own signal processors from the list above, and make any kind of synthesis you'd like.

With a soldering iron and bunches of components and circuit boards, you can explore the interactions between all those in various ways, and construct any combination you think sounds good.

You can save time and have people who do this for a living do much of this for you. Then what you do is buy the results of their efforts, whichever pleases you, at whatever price seems reasonable to you.

But bottom line, it's all the same thing, with finite details and a variety of constraints.

And you also learn, once you have access to it all, that the simplest combinations of circuit designs often sound the best, especially in subtractive. All modulation is, after all, _SUBTRACTING_ sonic components to highlight others, at a variety of modulated rates. So if you like full sound, punch, flavor, whatever the term, the simpler the subtractive process, the richer the sound.

I also learned that on my NM.

Too bad nobody's made a NM since Clavia released theirs. If you have any one of them (NM1, NM2).... hang onto them for the sheer educational value, if nothing else!

And then: use your ears.

It's as simple as that!
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