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Sequential Prophet X
Old 2nd May 2018
  #901
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
I think the fact that the X is so tightly bound to 8Dio and that 3/4ths of the storage space is taken up by samples that you can't remove and may not necessarily want is it's weakest bit.
Sure, there’s a downside. There’s also an upside:

For one, people can create custom programs to share knowing what base sample set is present in every single Prophet X out there. It’s not like this is unprecedented, it just usually doesn’t carry any brand other than the manufacturer’s own.

For another, you can convince a partner like 8DIO to give you a bulk rate on sample development because they know they’re getting paid for every single unit that ships. Chances are you’d get a tiny fraction as many third party samples for the same price if everyone bought their own a la carte.

These are also two reasons are why I wouldn’t expect a module to ship without the 150GB library, though it’s possible an entirely different synth will emerge that shares some characteristics but focuses more on user sampling. Still, I wouldn’t hold my breath. 50GB of space for user samples is pretty much unprecedented in a hardware synth, and if larger storage is possible down the road even this limit may vanish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Someone (Arturia? SE?) should make an analog 8 filter bank (expandable to 16) in hardware with an ADAT lightpipe 8 channel interface that syncs to a sample VST that feeds it 8 note polyphonic samples. That way you get deep ITB samples with analog filters. SE could do it with their Moog, 303, SEM, CS, Arp filters etc. as options.
A huge part of the point of the filter designs is that they’re integrated into the overall voice architecture. Each filtered voice has a cutoff that can track the pitch of the voice, an envelope that’s an integral part of shaping the sound, other forms of modulation, and output that’s summed prior to any integrated effects. An external filter won’t have this kind of tight integration, presumes an output-per-voice which is rare outside of mono synths these days, and adds latency to the audio path. I don’t see the win outside of using it as a global effect.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym View Post
A few short answers to things I've seen mentioned:

User samples will 100% be in the instrument. User samples are already basically working on the synth but we have a lot of other things to get working before implementing, like an easy way for you to make the multi-sample files and import them into the machine. This is easy for our add-on packs because we know how to do it manually, but we want to make it easy for you guys.
awesome news. thanks for chiming in.

i hope this will be edited in software realm and simply loaded into the X.

also i hope that, beside the standard stuff like multisampled key maps, velocity switching etc, we will be able to load our round robins, layers etc - in other words, our own "deep sampled" stuff?

think that is rather important if were to utilize this machines sampling engine to its full potential.

i have some wonderful round robin samples of tons of hi ticket analog stuff (produced them for a huge sample lib project that got halted). for example, a 4 round robin OBXA pads, each robin from a different Xa voicecard, 13seconds all keys in 6 octaves. so arround 1.3G for one sound - but it sounds absolutely heavenly and organic. i would love to be able to play this from the Prophet X.


also, will the 8DIO content be erasable and ultimately replaceable with our own stuff, or is it more like a unchangeable ROM ?


thanks
Old 2nd May 2018
  #903
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Sure, there’s a downside. There’s also an upside:

For one, people can create custom programs to share knowing what base sample set is present in every single Prophet X out there. It’s not like this is unprecedented, it just usually doesn’t carry any brand other than the manufacturer’s own.

For another, you can convince a partner like 8DIO to give you a bulk rate on sample development because they know they’re getting paid for every single unit that ships. Chances are you’d get a tiny fraction as many third party samples for the same price if everyone bought their own a la carte.

These are also two reasons are why I wouldn’t expect a module to ship without the 150GB library, though it’s possible an entirely different synth will emerge that shares some characteristics but focuses more on user sampling. Still, I wouldn’t hold my breath. 50GB of space for user samples is pretty much unprecedented in a hardware synth, and if larger storage is possible down the road even this limit may vanish.



A huge part of the point of the filter designs is that they’re integrated into the overall voice architecture. Each filtered voice has a cutoff that can track the pitch of the voice, an envelope that’s an integral part of shaping the sound, other forms of modulation, and output that’s summed prior to any integrated effects. An external filter won’t have this kind of tight integration, presumes an output-per-voice which is rare outside of mono synths these days, and adds latency to the audio path. I don’t see the win outside of using it as a global effect.
Yes of course, that’s why I suggested it be tied to a dedicated VST. It would handle all of the envelopes and mods. As well as voice stealing etc. The filter bank would have ADAT for output per voice. And latency would be the same as anything. 32 samples is totally workable. Maybe a collab with NI for Kontakt compatibility.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #904
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cramseur's Avatar
Does anyone know if the knobs will transmit Midi CC?

Or I guess a better question is will it have full midi cc specs for transmit and receive?
Old 2nd May 2018
  #905
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string6theory's Avatar
I’m reclining back in my zero-G enjoyably listening to the last posted demo through the Grace > Bryston > ProAcs and I’m trippin’!

This is one silky smooth, trippy wet n drippy (liquidy), slightly cool (not cold), very sonically malleable, hi-fi synth X! The subtle chorusing, phasing & stereo imaging is heavenly. Very cinematic. Some sounds have nice frequency modulated like timbres.

I’m a believer. But damn... still has those (potential) negatives...

Wise Master Po please help... instill patience in grasshopper slut!

Old 2nd May 2018
  #906
M32
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M32's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
Huh? You don't think that 150Gb of material as starting points for sound creation is a good thing + 50Gb user storage area?

I guess we differ there.
Considering a nord electro 6 has 1Gb of piano samples and 512mb for other stuff (256 polyphony ofcourse)

But it's true it would be nice to be able to erase the ones we're absolutely sure we wont use for repurposing.
Quite possibly they will give this feature in an update, since everyone is asking about it. I like the fact they are taking their time with the sample import implementation, you want that to be good.

But tbh i don't want to use per-key and velocity multisampling that much, it's not a kontakt player. I want textures and odd recordings to stretch, mangle, layer and manipulate.
If i want a piano i'll play a piano.

*edit*
i just saw the quantum has 4Gb of space?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #907
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I think they should keep the samples and force the whiners to suck it up. It would make resell a total hassle to add those back in, plus a company whose entire focus on sampling is probably gonna do better than most of us. 50GB of samples is plenty other than the very select few. I say make the 50GB user bank expandable with a mod done at the DSI factory and call it a day.

Too many issues of bricking a synth or damaging the circuit board. Too many untrained people who think a childhood passion for legos makes them capable of circuit work. The Ambika went out of production in large part to the customers who broke theirs and demanded help/a refund
Old 3rd May 2018
  #908
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramseur View Post
Does anyone know if the knobs will transmit Midi CC?
There doesn’t seem to be a full MIDI implementation chart available yet, but DSI has done this well in past gear so it seems reasonable to expect. There aren’t enough unassigned CC numbers for every knob in some cases, but they still transmit those as MIDI NRPNs per the standard. So here’s hoping...

Quote:
Originally Posted by M32 View Post
But it's true it would be nice to be able to erase the ones we're absolutely sure we wont use for repurposing.
Per my earlier post, there’s some value for sound designers in being able to assume a certain set of samples will always be present. I’m not convinced the ability to delete them would be more useful than problematic.

Quote:
But tbh i don't want to use per-key and velocity multisampling that much, it's not a kontakt player. I want textures and odd recordings to stretch, mangle, layer and manipulate.
50GB is a ton of space if you’re not recording per-pitch and narrow velocity slices. How many textures and odd recordings do you have time to source, pull together, and install? Without freeing up any space there’s enough room for more than three days of continuous, unlooped stereo 48kHz 16-bit sampled audio.

Quote:
i just saw the quantum has 4Gb of space?
That’s shared space for the OS, pre-installed content, and user samples. I think the claim was around 2GB would be free for user samples, and that they’ll be loaded into RAM for when switching programs with a limit of less than half a gigabyte of free RAM. That’s part of why I’m curious about the corresponding arrangement on the Prophet X. We know the storage is dramatically larger, but don’t yet know what the RAM situation looks like for the current patch.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #909
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
50GB of space for user samples is pretty much unprecedented in a hardware synth
Well there’s the Alesis Fusion. But it’s samples had to be loaded into its max 384MB RAM. What’s unprecedented is the capability to stream more than a few GB.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #910
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
It's funny. The release of the Prophet X is making me want a Prophet 6 really bad, all of a sudden, for some reason.
+1
Old 3rd May 2018
  #911
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raffor's Avatar
 

150 GB of samples and then what? I am not sure if I understand the synths purpose. Either I have quality samples to be as close as possible to the original or I want to screw with the samples and apply the nice sounding filter. For that I don't need gigabytes of round robin samples, tbh. But maybe I cannot see the potential.

That opens up a question for me, whether I can move the start point of the sample to only use part of it, or do I have to run through the initial transient to play with the loop points?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #912
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Quantum7's Avatar
I've spent over $3k with 8dio in the past few years, therefore I should get a discount on the Prophet X since I'll be buying at least some of the same samples over again. Seriously though, I see this ending up in my studio most likely sooner than later. That Rozzer demo sold me.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #913
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Loop Start/End can be altered and modulated.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #914
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raffor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbmd View Post
Loop Start/End can be altered and modulated.
and sample start?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #915
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ah, sorry about that, yes Sample Start/End can be edited/modulated.

Since I worded my previous comment incorrectly, I should correct it to say that there is no independent setting of loop start/end points. The Prophet X allows you to control the size and center point of the loop.

Furthermore, the loop can be offset from the center by pushing the sample start/end towards the loop start/end.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #916
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raffor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbmd View Post
ah, sorry about that, yes Sample Start/End can be edited/modulated.

Since I worded my previous comment incorrectly, I should correct it to say that there is no independent setting of loop start/end points. The Prophet X allows you to control the size and center point of the loop.
Cool, thanks!
Old 3rd May 2018
  #917
Deleted cec0d5b
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor View Post
150 GB of samples and then what?
A saw, triangle, sin, square and pulse wave and then what?

The basic usual-suspects oscillator sources for sound creation cannot outdo 150Gb of raw sonic material + an additional 50Gb available for your own sounds and noises - not to mention that you also get the usual-suspects oscillators too!

I really don't understand your question.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #918
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor View Post
150 GB of samples and than what?
FTFY. But I’m curious. Why the dichotomy? Why not both? Take any ROMPler and drop e.g. a bass guitar multisample in the place of the sampled moog saw wave or whatever in a bass synth patch (or a flute multisample in a lead patch, Rhodes in a poly patch etc etc). That’s what this is, except the signal path between the samples and the output jacks is characterful instead of bland.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #919
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Quantum7's Avatar
Old 3rd May 2018
  #920
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raffor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
A saw, triangle, sin, square and pulse wave and then what?

The basic usual-suspects oscillator sources for sound creation cannot outdo 150Gb of raw sonic material + an additional 50Gb available for your own sounds and noises - not to mention that you also get the usual-suspects oscillators too!

I really don't understand your question.
Really? Why you don't read the rest. The first intro sentence was just copying from the two oscillator and then what thread. But I guess you did not get it.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #921
Gear Nut
 

Are people really thinking 50GB is lots of space for sample libraries?

I quickly went on 8Dio's very own website and clicked on the first sample library that popped up called "The 1985 Passionate Piano"

Here are the specs: 66.000 samples 22.4GB (compressed from 67 GB)

50GB will be eaten up fast by user loaded sample libraries. Some string libraries from Spitifre, Cinesamples, EastWest, etc. are already each 50+ GB.
Asking for drive expandability is hardly a big ask given the promo video promoting this to not only synth guys but also media/film composers.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #922
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Quantum7's Avatar
Old 3rd May 2018
  #923
Deleted cec0d5b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor View Post
Really? Why you don't read the rest. The first intro sentence was just copying from the two oscillator and then what thread. But I guess you did not get it.
I read it - you stated that you didn't get the point of the synth. Unless I misunderstood? I was saying that the point of the synth is to be able to use 150Gb + 50Gb user raw sample material as starting points for patch creation / manipulation / mangling / modulating etc. and that that in itself will allow more sonic possibilities than just the usual oscillator shapes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari88 View Post
Are people really thinking 50GB is lots of space for sample libraries?
No, we're saying that it's a lot for a synth - especially considering the X's nearest rival is the Quantum which only allows 2Gb or so of user sample space.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #924
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
I’m reclining back in my zero-G enjoyably listening to the last posted demo through the Grace > Bryston > ProAcs and I’m trippin’!

This is one silky smooth, trippy wet n drippy (liquidy), slightly cool (not cold), very sonically malleable, hi-fi synth X! The subtle chorusing, phasing & stereo imaging is heavenly. Very cinematic. Some sounds have nice frequency modulated like timbres.

I’m a believer. But damn... still has those (potential) negatives...

Wise Master Po please help... instill patience in grasshopper slut!

Fear not, fellow Grasshopper slut. Synth Happens.

I have been spending the afternoon educating my ears on my own audiophile style setup. I will spare you the details, lest this become a dick measuring contest.

I have to say that I am really beginning to lust after this. I had earlier convinced myself that I was fine with my Pro-2 and OB6.... However, this really does move into some nice new territory.

I am going to launch myself into a waiting list.....
Old 3rd May 2018
  #925
Kja
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I think anybody that can actually afford to purchase this without massive repercussions would be completely foolish not to...
Old 3rd May 2018
  #926
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astraeus000's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Too expensive for me but I really want it. I might have to sell the XTk and Polyevolver. I think these demos sound gorgeous.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #927
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drockfresh's Avatar
Is there a list of the included samples yet?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #928
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Quantum7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by astraeus000 View Post
Too expensive for me but I really want it. I might have to sell the XTk and Polyevolver. I think these demos sound gorgeous.
I'm getting more sick every time I hear another synth that I'd like to have. I'm not rich, but I'm blessed to afford most synths out there given time to save up money, but it's the problem I have of really having no desire to have a dozen synths. 5 or 6 is more than enough for me, so every time I want a new synth I have to think of letting another one go.

Off topic- Who is your avatar of? That lady looks familiar. An actress from the 20's or something?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #929
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Off topic- Who is your avatar of? That lady looks familiar. An actress from the 20's or something?
Jumping in with a guess: from the old movie Metropolis?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #930
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Is there a list of the included samples yet?
No list of individual samples/instruments AFAIK, but the 8Dio PX page says:

Quote:
The Sequential Prophet X contains over 150GB of deep-sampled instruments – derived from a wide assortment of custom libraries (specifically designed for the Prophet X) and from the 8Dio and private V8P collections. Thousands of deep-sampled instruments and far too many to list. Ambiences, Upright and Electric Basses, Studio Brass Ensemble and Studio Brass Solo Instruments (ex. Trombone, Trumpet, Saxophone etc), Large-Scale Symphonic Choirs, Childrens Choir, Experimental Basses and a large section of custom instruments.

Several deep-sampled drum kits and +50 different electronic kits, Massive Ensemble Percussion Sets, Taiko Drums, Guitars (ex. Acoustic, 12-String, Dobro, Electric, Mandolin etc), Thousands of Cinematic Sound Design Tools, Vintage Keyboards (ex. Suitcase, Hammond, Wurlitzer, Clavinet etc), Orchestral Effects. Deep Assortment of both Tonal and Non-Tonal Percussion, Grand Pianos, Upright Pianos, Prepared Pianos. Solo Voices. Studio String and Woodwind Ensembles. Custom Wavetables. Synth Ensembles and thousands of other instruments.
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