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Sequential Prophet X
Old 7th June 2019
  #5401
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
It’s true. Individual samples either have one loop, or none.



One of the advantages of having a ton of storage is simply recording the full natural decay for sounds that don’t have indefinite sustain and doing without a loop altogether. Most acoustic instruments on the Prophet X follow this general approach.
Copy that. So maybe I'm thinking about using the Prophet X in the wrong way if it's unable to use release samples. My plan was to replace a Korg M1 on stage, so I'm sampling a pad sound into Sample Robot. That's all working fine (14 seconds of the pad and then 4 seconds for a release). However, as I play the notes back in Sample Robot, as soon I release the key, the sample stops. I assume this is where a release sample would come in by playing the end of the sample whenever I release the key?

In short, I'm trying to get then Prophet X to react the same as the M1. Is this just a dream?

Sorry if these are silly questions, this is my first foray into sampling. We've always just had a pile of keyboards on stage but are now trying to condense.

Thanks a ton.
Old 7th June 2019
  #5402
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cm231805 View Post
My plan was to replace a Korg M1 on stage, so I'm sampling a pad sound into Sample Robot. That's all working fine (14 seconds of the pad and then 4 seconds for a release). However, as I play the notes back in Sample Robot, as soon I release the key, the sample stops.
While the Prophet X uses samples extensively, it’s not really intended to achieve every aspect of sound design by preparing the sample itself. Instead, the instrument encourages you to use samples as raw material for synthesis.

If you want an instrument to fade out on release, just set the release on the amp envelope. If it needs to change in timbre only after release, use the release segment of another envelope to control whatever effect you’re looking for (fading in an oscillator or sample, introducing LFO modulation, or changing the filter cutoff or resonance.) Making the most of the synthesis side of the Prophet X is key to appreciating what the instrument is capable of. Try out unlikely modulation sources and destinations. Use negative modulation amounts to suppress something during sustain, so that the suppression fades during release.

It’s all right at your fingertips with the largely knob-per-function design. It’s just a very different mentality from a pure sample playback approach to making music.
Old 7th June 2019
  #5403
Lives for gear
 

You also may need to plan ahead in the context of how you want to use the sample. And since there is ample storage, you may have to store “duplicates” of the samples.

WTF am I talking about? :-)

Example, you may have to sample without a delay turned on and instead use the delay of the PX to generate the repeats live. Same with reverb.

If reverb is critical to the overall tone, but not as critical for the tail, you’ll do a long sample and use the PX amp env release to fade it out.

You may find you have to reset the phase of the LFOs on the samples synth when you otherwise wouldn’t so you can get a consistent sample that can be triggered and not make people sea sick. Especially if you have round robin or velocity layers.

If you have a dedicated rhythmic sample with LFO, delay etc, you might sample that exact thing for an exact song for an exact tempo.

You might have to increase the cutoff of the filter of your synth and turn down the filter env amount, then sample that, and let the PX do some of the frequency subtraction with its own filter env. or if the filter sweep is critical in timing, you sample that exactly.

Don’t forget, each preset on the PX has an A and a B timbre. So you can have the same overall sound, but slightly different samples or treatment of the samples per preset.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cm231805 View Post
Copy that. So maybe I'm thinking about using the Prophet X in the wrong way if it's unable to use release samples. My plan was to replace a Korg M1 on stage, so I'm sampling a pad sound into Sample Robot. That's all working fine (14 seconds of the pad and then 4 seconds for a release). However, as I play the notes back in Sample Robot, as soon I release the key, the sample stops. I assume this is where a release sample would come in by playing the end of the sample whenever I release the key?

In short, I'm trying to get then Prophet X to react the same as the M1. Is this just a dream?

Sorry if these are silly questions, this is my first foray into sampling. We've always just had a pile of keyboards on stage but are now trying to condense.

Thanks a ton.
Old 8th June 2019
  #5404
Anyone think it might be possible to make the tempo a mod destination in future firmware updates?
Old 8th June 2019
  #5405
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by d33psp33d View Post
Anyone think it might be possible to make the tempo a mod destination in future firmware updates?
It certainly never hurts to ask! I find writing to support at Sequential generally gets their attention and that having suggestions on the official list is usually the most effective way to get them considered.
Old 8th June 2019
  #5406
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today. Thanks to everyone who took time to write feedback during the beta period, it’s now even more feature rich than I had planned at the beginning of this journey.

Here's a quick overview of what’s in the app:

* macOS and Windows support
* Per-key sample mapping, fine tuned in cent increments
* Automatic sample key and loop detection from .wav metadata
* Automatic pattern matching to infer root key from filename when metadata isn’t present
* Support for samples recorded at rates other than the recommended 48kHz
* Sample playback previews for entire instruments with a connected MIDI controller, or individual samples with just a mouse and keyboard
* Up to 20 velocity layers per key
* Up to 20 round-robin samples per velocity layer
* Instruments can be saved as documents for future editing
* Undo/redo support

... and in video form:



There's a dedicated page with download links here. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to get in touch with any bug reports or questions. Before the obvious one gets asked: yes, the application is completely free for personal use.
Old 8th June 2019
  #5407
Lives for gear
 
markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today. Thanks to everyone who took time to write feedback during the beta period, it’s now even more feature rich than I had planned at the beginning of this journey.

Here's a quick overview of what’s in the app:

* macOS and Windows support
* Per-key sample mapping, fine tuned in cent increments
* Automatic sample key and loop detection from .wav metadata
* Automatic pattern matching to infer root key from filename when metadata isn’t present
* Support for samples recorded at rates other than the recommended 48kHz
* Sample playback previews for entire instruments with a connected MIDI controller, or individual samples with just a mouse and keyboard
* Up to 20 velocity layers per key
* Up to 20 round-robin samples per velocity layer
* Instruments can be saved as documents for future editing
* Undo/redo support

... and in video form:



There's a dedicated page with download links here. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to get in touch with any bug reports or questions. Before the obvious one gets asked: yes, the application is completely free for personal use.
You are a truly amazing human. Thank you for your hard work for the community. You didn’t have to do this but you did.
Old 8th June 2019
  #5408
Lives for gear
 

Great work! Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today. Thanks to everyone who took time to write feedback during the beta period, it’s now even more feature rich than I had planned at the beginning of this journey.

Here's a quick overview of what’s in the app:

* macOS and Windows support
* Per-key sample mapping, fine tuned in cent increments
* Automatic sample key and loop detection from .wav metadata
* Automatic pattern matching to infer root key from filename when metadata isn’t present
* Support for samples recorded at rates other than the recommended 48kHz
* Sample playback previews for entire instruments with a connected MIDI controller, or individual samples with just a mouse and keyboard
* Up to 20 velocity layers per key
* Up to 20 round-robin samples per velocity layer
* Instruments can be saved as documents for future editing
* Undo/redo support

... and in video form:



There's a dedicated page with download links here. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to get in touch with any bug reports or questions. Before the obvious one gets asked: yes, the application is completely free for personal use.
Old 9th June 2019
  #5409
Lives for gear
 

So essentially one person did what 8dio and Sci won't do, to fulfill what was promised?
Old 9th June 2019
  #5410
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today.
I don't even have the PX, but I so appreciate when users help other users! Congrats!!
Old 9th June 2019
  #5411
Gear Addict
 
Maffez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today.
Wow, what a service to the community that is!

I think you also just sold a couple of Prophets there; at least the x became quite more interesting to me.

if 8dio and dsi have some sense of decency they'll be sending you at least some bottles of gin, i hope.
Old 9th June 2019
  #5412
Lives for gear
 
Forbidden Planet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today. Thanks to everyone who took time to write feedback during the beta period, it’s now even more feature rich than I had planned at the beginning of this journey.

Here's a quick overview of what’s in the app:

* macOS and Windows support
* Per-key sample mapping, fine tuned in cent increments
* Automatic sample key and loop detection from .wav metadata
* Automatic pattern matching to infer root key from filename when metadata isn’t present
* Support for samples recorded at rates other than the recommended 48kHz
* Sample playback previews for entire instruments with a connected MIDI controller, or individual samples with just a mouse and keyboard
* Up to 20 velocity layers per key
* Up to 20 round-robin samples per velocity layer
* Instruments can be saved as documents for future editing
* Undo/redo support

... and in video form:



There's a dedicated page with download links here. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to get in touch with any bug reports or questions. Before the obvious one gets asked: yes, the application is completely free for personal use.
Simply amazed, looking forward to upgrading!
Old 11th June 2019
  #5413
Lives for gear
 
24dB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today. Thanks to everyone who took time to write feedback during the beta period, it’s now even more feature rich than I had planned at the beginning of this journey.

Here's a quick overview of what’s in the app:

* macOS and Windows support
* Per-key sample mapping, fine tuned in cent increments
* Automatic sample key and loop detection from .wav metadata
* Automatic pattern matching to infer root key from filename when metadata isn’t present
* Support for samples recorded at rates other than the recommended 48kHz
* Sample playback previews for entire instruments with a connected MIDI controller, or individual samples with just a mouse and keyboard
* Up to 20 velocity layers per key
* Up to 20 round-robin samples per velocity layer
* Instruments can be saved as documents for future editing
* Undo/redo support

... and in video form:



There's a dedicated page with download links here. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to get in touch with any bug reports or questions. Before the obvious one gets asked: yes, the application is completely free for personal use.
Great work LG! You truly are a credit to the community
Old 11th June 2019
  #5414
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Thanks, everyone. It has been a fascinating project to spend some time on and I'm delighted at how the community has embraced it. I'm looking forward to hearing more of what you all do with it! Of course I can never leave well enough alone, so I got experimental support for .aiff samples up and running last night. It involved some fairly invasive changes so I have a fair bit of qualification to do and I still need to get audio previews up and running, but otherwise it's looking good.
Old 11th June 2019
  #5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Thanks, everyone. It has been a fascinating project to spend some time on and I'm delighted at how the community has embraced it. I'm looking forward to hearing more of what you all do with it! Of course I can never leave well enough alone, so I got experimental support for .aiff samples up and running last night. It involved some fairly invasive changes so I have a fair bit of qualification to do and I still need to get audio previews up and running, but otherwise it's looking good.
How about a button in the app that links to some cloud service like dropbox, google docs to share instruments?
Old 11th June 2019
  #5416
Gear Nut
 
S h a w's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
PXToolkit, my sample preparation utility for the Prophet X, is finally graduating with the release of version 1.0 today. Thanks to everyone who took time to write feedback during the beta period, it’s now even more feature rich than I had planned at the beginning of this journey.

Here's a quick overview of what’s in the app:

* macOS and Windows support
* Per-key sample mapping, fine tuned in cent increments
* Automatic sample key and loop detection from .wav metadata
* Automatic pattern matching to infer root key from filename when metadata isn’t present
* Support for samples recorded at rates other than the recommended 48kHz
* Sample playback previews for entire instruments with a connected MIDI controller, or individual samples with just a mouse and keyboard
* Up to 20 velocity layers per key
* Up to 20 round-robin samples per velocity layer
* Instruments can be saved as documents for future editing
* Undo/redo support

... and in video form:



There's a dedicated page with download links here. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to get in touch with any bug reports or questions. Before the obvious one gets asked: yes, the application is completely free for personal use.
This is such an immensely useful tool. Many thanks from a grateful community!
Old 13th June 2019
  #5417
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
... and I’m looking for volunteers who are interested in trying out a pre-release build with both AIFF support and 24-bit support for WAV and AIFF samples (automatically dithered to 16-bit on export.) PM me for a link to download if you’ll be able to try it out in the next couple of days.
Old 13th June 2019
  #5418
Lives for gear
 
Shadowkast's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chouby View Post
Too bad Dave Smith elected to partner with such a slacker company. I've been eyeing this synth for a while but the bad things I read on 8Dio are keeping me from jumping in. I love Sequential and Dave Smith though...
You ain't lyin'. If I had plunked down this kind of change for this level of support, I'd be livid and not buy anything from either of them again. I won't listen to any small company excuses either. Sequential has their reps come on here and announce products and correct posters who don't have all their information straight but they go absolutely silent when it comes to this topic or deflect the issue to their partner, who doesn't respond. That's more like the kind of thing you'd expect from a big corp that has no regard for their customers. I'm happy with the DSI gear I have. But I'm really glad I didn't buy this thing. They should be ashamed.
Old 13th June 2019
  #5419
Lives for gear
 
Stephen Bennett's Avatar
 

It doesn’t actually stop the X from being an amazing synth. It just makes it more difficult to access all the power available.

Stephen
Old 13th June 2019
  #5420
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowkast View Post
You ain't lyin'. If I had plunked down this kind of change for this level of support, I'd be livid and not buy anything from either of them again. I won't listen to any small company excuses either. Sequential has their reps come on here and announce products and correct posters who don't have all their information straight but they go absolutely silent when it comes to this topic or deflect the issue to their partner, who doesn't respond. That's more like the kind of thing you'd expect from a big corp that has no regard for their customers. I'm happy with the DSI gear I have. But I'm really glad I didn't buy this thing. They should be ashamed.
My guess is that DSI has an exclusive contract with 8DIO

To create samples and control the sample utility

The time period can't end soon enough
Old 13th June 2019
  #5421
Gear Head
I don’t much care for the way it’s been handled either, but it’s essentially that way with almost all gear. Buy it for what it is, not what it will be in the future. The Pro X is really rather well appointed and stable. The sample import is needlessly complicated and the 8dio participation has been anything but useful to me, but I don’t hold it against Sequential. It’s a hell of a nice synth, only being let down by 8dio. For me, the partnership would have been universally more compelling with Spitfire. That would have been a synth for the ages. 8dio has never been a favorite of mine. Either way, I still have my Pro X, it’s wonderful as it is, maybe it will get better if 8dio comes around but I utterly and completely don’t see that happening.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5422
Lives for gear
 
string6theory's Avatar
From the outside listening in, it sounds like 8DIO (Infinite God?) didn’t come close to achieving their ROI and basically bailed on any more serious X-time.

And, someone in authority needs to PM-cut Lady Gaia a big consultant/developer’s check for swooping in to save their collective faces.

But, I think my interest in the X has passed. It just doesn’t seem to have fulfilled its potential. I sort of cringe at all the hoop jumping required to create, load, setup and use user samples. Maybe it’s easier than I realize.

Plus, all the so-called deep-sampled variations on the same sound (theme) seem like filler/overkill. I’d prefer 1000 premium quality, individual instrument samples, over 200 samples with 5 variations (like different mic positions) any day.

It sucks when an obvious masterpiece is needlessly hobbled or diminished by lack of foresight or needed development. I hope it all gets worked out so these limitations are removed and features expanded to max out the X’s potential. I could really apppreciate a powerhouse sample-synth that’s a breeze to use on all levels.

At the same time, I know there are plenty of folks perfectly happy with their X the way it is. At least, I think, there are. It’s plenty feature rich and capable for making great music in the right hands.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5423
Lives for gear
 
Quantum7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
From the outside listening in, it sounds like 8DIO (Infinite God?) didn’t come close to achieving their ROI and basically bailed on any more serious X-time.

And, someone in authority needs to PM-cut Lady Gaia a big consultant/developer’s check for swooping in to save their collective faces.

But, I think my interest in the X has passed. It just doesn’t seem to have fulfilled its potential. I sort of cringe at all the hoop jumping required to create, load, setup and use user samples. Maybe it’s easier than I realize.

Plus, all the so-called deep-sampled variations on the same sound (theme) seem like filler/overkill. I’d prefer 1000 premium quality, individual instrument samples, over 200 samples with 5 variations (like different mic positions) any day.

It sucks when an obvious masterpiece is needlessly hobbled or diminished by lack of foresight or needed development. I hope it all gets worked out so these limitations are removed and features expanded to max out the X’s potential. I could really apppreciate a powerhouse sample-synth that’s a breeze to use on all levels.

At the same time, I know there are plenty of folks perfectly happy with their X the way it is. At least, I think, there are. It’s plenty feature rich and capable for making great music in the right hands.
Having sold my PX months ago in order to pay for my Baloran The River, I really don't miss it that much......but that said, having an awesome person like Lady Gaia helping out the PX community now makes me wish I still had it.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5424
Lives for gear
 
string6theory's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Having sold my PX months ago in order to pay for my Baloran The River, I really don't miss it that much......but that said, having an awesome person like Lady Gaia helping out the PX community now makes me wish I still had it.
Ah, The River... so close yet so far! I can’t wait.

You’ve been making (and posting) great music on it, so good choice and well done!

I nominate Lady G for US Baloran The River development when Laurent retires. Of course, she’ll need a River first.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5425
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
I think my interest in the X has passed. It just doesn’t seem to have fulfilled its potential. I sort of cringe at all the hoop jumping required to create, load, setup and use user samples. Maybe it’s easier than I realize.
Personally, I hope it’s just getting started. It feels like after an awkward first year we have some really nice refinements with the v2.x firmware, and all of the waiting for user sampling to come into its own is past. I’ve heard some really interesting work being done by people using PXToolkit who have reached out to share, and it’s fascinating watching new downloads day by day as word gets out.

I’ve done everything I could think of to make importing samples and laying out a key map as quick and easy as possible. It really can be as simple as drag, drop, and export to set everything up on a USB drive, ready to import into the Prophet X. It’s much easier than anything I’ve seen for my Kurzweil, and it doesn’t sound like sample management is particularly easy on the Quantum, either.

I know lack of AIFF support was a stumbling block for some, which is why I started work on it recently along with 24-bit samples. Everything is looking great and I expect to release that update this coming weekend unless any early adopters run into issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Having sold my PX months ago in order to pay for my Baloran The River, I really don't miss it that much......but that said, having an awesome person like Lady Gaia helping out the PX community now makes me wish I still had it.
Awwww, thanks! It sounds like The River suits you really well and that’s ultimately what matters - an instrument that inspires you. Sadly, I still haven’t found an excuse to head your way and experience one in person. Likewise, my sole stop in Germany this summer isn’t close enough to MaisonVague to try his out, either. Perhaps it’s for the best. I’ve promised myself I’d wait and see what Sequential has up their sleeves this year before committing to anything major.

Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
I nominate Lady G for US Baloran The River development when Laurent retires. Of course, she’ll need a River first.
I’d even move some furniture to make room for it.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5426
Lives for gear
 
drxcm's Avatar
 

Well, as much as I can't support 8DIO's ****ty approach to supporting the Prophet X, I still love the thing to bits.

Can't imagine being without my PX now. Easily one of the most inspiring instruments I've used, and loading my own samples with LG's utility has been seamless.
So, currently I don't see any need for 8DIO to help anymore. They can produce sample packs but I'm happy with rolling my own.

Also there are 3rd parties producing packs too (Goldbaby PPG pack - here's looking at you - can't wait!)
Old 14th June 2019
  #5427
Lives for gear
 
string6theory's Avatar
I think I overstated my “cringe” comment for dealing with samples! I’m very glad this is the case. I’ve had this damn synth on my mind synth it launched, and I’m probably looking for excuses to save money! I still have a spot for it.

Anyway, carry on, I know the X is a beast.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5428
Gear Addict
 
unease's Avatar
I think Sequential should add some basic granular mode as an alternative looping mode, that would add a lot of possibilities for explorative synthesis based on samples but could still be pretty hands on using the existing physical controls: size, center.

I would actually be surprised if that was not in the plans from the beginning!

String6theory is probably right about the analysis of the 8DIO situation - they are a really small company and if they didn't see the expected income from the Prophet-X project, they would have to cut down on the work as much as they can, given the contract they have with Sequential. I'm not surprised that we don't hear any comments about this situation from Sequential them selves, they are of course very aware of how you owners feel but are professional enough to keep from discussing a delicate situation on a public forum. Possibly they can support Lady Gaga in some way when the exclusive contract with 8DIO (I just assume there is one...) has expired.
Old 14th June 2019
  #5429
Lives for gear
 
Stephen Bennett's Avatar
 

I agree re: granular—I was thinking the same thing.

I'm spoiled by Clavia's sampling model.

It is hard to sample, but the results are spectacular.

I just sampled my MiniMoog triangles into the X—woah.

This is probably the best synth I've ever had (and I have a couple of the best vintage ones).

Stephen
Old 14th June 2019
  #5430
Gear Addict
 
unease's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
I agree re: granular—I was thinking the same thing.

I'm spoiled by Clavia's sampling model.

It is hard to sample, but the results are spectacular.

I just sampled my MiniMoog triangles into the X—woah.

This is probably the best synth I've ever had (and I have a couple of the best vintage ones).

Stephen
Nord Wave?
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