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Quantec QRS/XL make sense today?
Old 18th April 2018
  #1
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Quantec QRS/XL make sense today?

How similar are these to the original QRS in sound? Better converters, but just as much mojo?

Sounds like this are what I'm looking for:



Not so much realistic spaces, but darkly haunting.

Also, I currently use a Lexicon 224xl for this, but what I hear above sounds rather distinct, but hard to tell on youtube. How different would a QRS/XL be to a 224xl for such sounds?

Do the presets include predelay, or are they all zero predelay, so you need to use an external unit to get predelay from front panel?

Anyone able to get the software editor working in Windows or OSX? I know there have been shell programs that let you port the editor into contemp operating systems, but anyone managing to do so today?

Are there other options for getting this sort of sound, vintage or otherwise? My guess is Eventide SP2016 and AMS RMX16 would be likely competitors, around the same price these days.
Old 19th April 2018
  #2
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ImJohn's Avatar
I love the Quantec "sound" but they are expensive, hard to find and support seems . . . unpredictable? I have one of the older Quantec Yardsticks (1202/F).

You might want to give the Tegeler Audio Raumzeitmaschine a serious look?! I think it has a similar vibe to the Quantec reverbs.
Tegeler Audio Manufaktur Tegeler Audio Raumzeitmaschine - Rackmount reverb with tubes!?
Old 19th April 2018
  #3
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
Also, I currently use a Lexicon 224xl for this, but what I hear above sounds rather distinct, but hard to tell on youtube. How different would a QRS/XL be to a 224xl for such sounds?

Are there other options for getting this sort of sound, vintage or otherwise? My guess is Eventide SP2016 and AMS RMX16 would be likely competitors, around the same price these days.
Without having them all in the room to hear yourself, there's only so far internet opinion will go. That being said, I have had all of the above in the same room.

Short answer - I sold the RMX16, SP-2016, and QRS. Of them all, the only one I regret letting go is the QRS. I had a very well taken care of version I bought from Studio Teknik years ago that was gone over and calibrated and sounded magical.

The QRS and Lexicons do not really overlap. Different algorithms, different ways the developers thought about space and reverb. You can dig through the Geeklutz reverb mega thread, but 3 of the core reverb algorithms that have stood the test of time were Eventide, Lexicon, and Quantec. Each of the developers came to a reverb using different approaches and as a result, the SP-2016 Stereo Room will put a smile on your face when you hear it, just like when you heard the 224XL in person and just like the QRS reverb when you hear it, but all 3 do it differently and sound different as a result. The Bricasti kind of sort of delivers a similar type of vibe, but still not in the QRS way exactly. There are times you want a sound to just sit in a space and the QRS does that so well.

If money was no object, I'd recommend owning the Lexicon 244 (or X or XL or 480L), the QRS, and then one other flavor - either the SP-2016, AMS RMX16, or Publison IM-90. The AMS is the least versatile of the bunch. The SP-2016 is mono or stereo in, stereo out, the IM-90 is dual mono in, 4 outputs (you can run 2 parallel algoithms and they can be different; some algorithms have a mono out, some are stereo). If you had any left over, I'd pick up a Bricasti on top of those, but for a 'vintage flavor' the Bricasti is currently not the best first choice (that opinion may change whenever version 3 comes out).
Old 19th April 2018
  #4
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massimo's Avatar
 

I need help.
As most Quantec users know, Dr Siegfried Welzenbach, an original Quantec engineer, is the man to get in touch with if you need servicing/refurbishing. After having shipped my QRS-XL to him last February (he confirmed the delivery), however, I have been unable to get in touch with him. He does not reply to emails. I am worried, because he has always been so helpful and kind. I am wondering if everything is fine with him.
Thank you in advance

Best regards
Massimo
Old 19th April 2018
  #5
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Short answer - I sold the RMX16, SP-2016, and QRS. Of them all, the only one I regret letting go is the QRS. I had a very well taken care of version I bought from Studio Teknik years ago that was gone over and calibrated and sounded magical.
I have an SP 2016 (the new one) and I keep almost selling it, but then read reviews/opinions from people that are so enamored with it, that I assume I'm just doing something wrong (note: originally I was, since I didn't have it enabled for stereo mode, which wasn't documented in the manual!). I think it sounds 'fine', but compared to my other reverbs I feel like I'm missing something.

But so many people feel it's magical and I'm like "It sounds like a reverb".

Quote:
There are times you want a sound to just sit in a space and the QRS does that so well.
This is what my M4000 is for, and I think the Bricasti and QRS tackle that objective well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImJohn
You might want to give the Tegeler Audio Raumzeitmaschine a serious look?!
I LOVE how this sounds, but there's no manual and no videos of its UI via Web. No WiFi, and no dedicated remote, so I'm mostly concerned how it works with its front panel. I don't want to get caught out with a device with iPad/VST/PC controls only to have those things die.
Old 19th April 2018
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
I have an SP 2016 (the new one) and I keep almost selling it, but then read reviews/opinions from people that are so enamored with it, that I assume I'm just doing something wrong (note: originally I was, since I didn't have it enabled for stereo mode, which wasn't documented in the manual!). I think it sounds 'fine', but compared to my other reverbs I feel like I'm missing something.
I was taking about the original. Just like the H3000 has a different kind of magic compared to the H8000, so did the original SP versus the reissue. If you ever get a chance to hear a working original SP, you'll sell the one you have in a heartbeat. After much auditioning, I never felt compelled to buy the reissue.
Old 19th April 2018
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Without having them all in the room to hear yourself, there's only so far internet opinion will go. That being said, I have had all of the above in the same room.

Short answer - I sold the RMX16, SP-2016, and QRS. Of them all, the only one I regret letting go is the QRS. I had a very well taken care of version I bought from Studio Teknik years ago that was gone over and calibrated and sounded magical.

The QRS and Lexicons do not really overlap. Different algorithms, different ways the developers thought about space and reverb. You can dig through the Geeklutz reverb mega thread, but 3 of the core reverb algorithms that have stood the test of time were Eventide, Lexicon, and Quantec. Each of the developers came to a reverb using different approaches and as a result, the SP-2016 Stereo Room will put a smile on your face when you hear it, just like when you heard the 224XL in person and just like the QRS reverb when you hear it, but all 3 do it differently and sound different as a result. The Bricasti kind of sort of delivers a similar type of vibe, but still not in the QRS way exactly. There are times you want a sound to just sit in a space and the QRS does that so well.

If money was no object, I'd recommend owning the Lexicon 244 (or X or XL or 480L), the QRS, and then one other flavor - either the SP-2016, AMS RMX16, or Publison IM-90. The AMS is the least versatile of the bunch. The SP-2016 is mono or stereo in, stereo out, the IM-90 is dual mono in, 4 outputs (you can run 2 parallel algoithms and they can be different; some algorithms have a mono out, some are stereo). If you had any left over, I'd pick up a Bricasti on top of those, but for a 'vintage flavor' the Bricasti is currently not the best first choice (that opinion may change whenever version 3 comes out).

Wow! This is some of the most helpful advice I could hope for here. Didn't know there were three primary 'families' of algorithms, Lexicon, Eventide, and QRS, that is so helpful! Will def check Geekslutz, didn't know about that! Really been re-reading all the old reverb threads I can find, lotta nuggest of wisdom there.

I recently purchased the 224xl and was beyond blown away. I would like to complement it with the right other vintage verbs before my cash flow runs out and other things need to take priority.

From online videos, my ears told me the Eventide reverbs were quite different, and I'd pretty much settled on the H3000, which I think can be uprgraded now with cheap chips to D/SE quite easily, as one unit to complement. The H3000 seems standrd for vintage multi-fx. I'm guessing the orig SP2016 has a bit more mojo, but also much more limited verb types, yes? I really like the sort of infinite swimming stuff I've heard from the H3000, not sure the SP2016 has those capabilities, as I've always heard it's more of a short room kinda verb. Is that right? Could the H3000 substitute for the 'other flavor' option? (Publison seem BEYOND rare).

The few online videos also indicate the QRS is doing something quite unique (and dark and gorgeous), glad to hear there's some reasons why. The original has a wonderful interface, I'm guessing mono in is fine because I can't see using something that dark really for full mixes and most of my sources are mono. The QRS/XL seems to be going for 1800-2k, not all that much less than the 2.5 the much harder to find QRS orig goes for. Any reason to get the XL? That's where I'm wondering if anyone currently has the editing software working in Windows or OSX.

So where do you see Space Station within this? My current setup is: 224xl, M300, Ursa Major Space Station. Problem with space station is reverb tails are really short, and compressing them only helps so much, lotta noise. The upside is the box can do so much else too, and with tons of mojo. To fund a QRS might mean needing to sell the Ursa, not sure about that. The 300 is my current reverb for mixes, and it excels at that, hopefully will shortly upgrade it so I can use the 224xl LARC with it. Still, 224xl, QRS, Space Station, M300, H3000 seems like overkill unless I'm missing something, especially when two of those almost get you to PPG territory.


---

Btw, I tend to find that even though my ears are the best guide, that my ears often line up with *****slutz conventional wisdom' more than I'd like to admit.

That's why these forums can be so useful. Especially as buying is often the only way to really try stuff, and selling more obscure gear (ie: reverb) can often take a while.

In general, though, when I've bought something based on a few demos and consistently stellar online reputation, I generally haven't been disappointed as I really got to know that gear firsthand. Sometimes I found something didn't fit my style, but I still saw where the GS 'conventional wisdom' was coming from (ie: totally didn't like Kawai K5000, but I see why others would). I bought my Rhodes Chroma mostly on faith, and a handful of online demos that didn't tell me all that much, and I'm blown away by it in so many ways, exceeded expectations. Lexicon 300 I bought almost exclusively on forum opinions, and it's incredible. (Still not fully sold on the RE-201, which I sold, its great but I think def overhyped, esp in comparison to BBDs). I've never heard a Jupiter 4 demo I really liked, but I suspect that all the love on the forums for this synth, if I played it in person, I'd see why people can be so in love with it.
Old 19th April 2018
  #8
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So wait, does this mean that Quantec can really only be repaired by Dr. Welzenbach?! Why, rare parts?
Old 19th April 2018
  #9
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grasspike's Avatar
It has been a long long long time since I used a QRS in person, but I do use the emulation of one inside the Behringer X series mixers all the time and love it. It's one of my go to effects I use all the time. It sounds like a QRS to me, but I have never done a side by side just going off my ears and memory

There are emulations of vintage Lexicons in there also and they sound different
Old 19th April 2018
  #10
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massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
So wait, does this mean that Quantec can really only be repaired by Dr. Welzenbach?! Why, rare parts?
Well, as much as it is not trivial finding someone who can service old Lexicons from the eighties, like Prime Time delays or 224's, it should be no surprise that servicing much rarer machines like Quantec can be tricky. I believe Dr. Welzenbach has a stock of rare proprietary parts for the QRS and QRS-XL. But, as I mentioned, I have no personal experience to report about at the moment...

Last edited by massimo; 19th April 2018 at 10:43 PM.. Reason: Typo
Old 19th April 2018
  #11
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Ftp - I'm on a phone, so not quoting it all...

The Publison is dual mono in, not the QRS. Look at on line pix of the QRS - stereo in, quad out (you can use it as stereo out too). Quantec didn't believe in early reflections which is a big departure from Lexicon and others. Not sure the origins of the AMS and Publison algorithms.

The H3000 did a lot more than the original SP, but you can see the lineage. The SP had the digiplex, reverb, phaser, flanger, etc, just simpler, with simpler controls. The stereo room preset in the original SP really is almost perfect on pretty much any source, plus the slider acts as a front/back control to move the user position around as needed.

Supposedly David Kulka/Studio Electronics repairs the QRS (I think - their website will tell you), but that's exactly why I don't recommend buying AMS to anyone anymore. Paying a vintage price and then have to send it to them to actually make it 100% pushes the total cost above what you can ever sell it for.

The reverb thread in the Geekslutz forum started as a technical discussion of how to code reverb and gradually expanded. Worth digging through since lots of comments from current hardware and software reverb designers.
Old 19th April 2018
  #12
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There's also a one in two out version of the QRS, I believe.

Oh, one other example where I didn't find 'conventional wisdom worked': Stargate 323. I love the Space Station, but the Stargate didn't sound even remotely in the same league to me, sounded lofi, tinny, midrange, ewww. Almost to the point of wondering if it was defective, but the guy I purchased it off of sells multiple such units, fixes them when not working, etc. But I didn't hear the lush and warm I'd read about, just a lotta mid-range grit. Oh well.
Old 19th April 2018
  #13
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The studio electronics site says in several places they fix AMS gear now, and specifically RMX16! That said, they showed a pic of a quantec qrs, but didn't list it on the partial list of gear they fix.
Old 19th April 2018
  #14
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
The studio electronics site says in several places they fix AMS gear now, and specifically RMX16! That said, they showed a pic of a quantec qrs, but didn't list it on the partial list of gear they fix.
I know they fix the RMX16, but if you buy one for $2k and it needed work, that will add another $1k at least, so for what you get, it's not the best value. I've had multiple DMX 15-80s that needed multiple trips out to David over the years I owned them. Buy at your own risk.
Old 20th April 2018
  #15
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gotcha. As much as it is lauded all over, I always figured the AMS RMX16 wasn't best bang for buck. Does look purty, tho. Can usually get SP2016 a bit cheaper, and as I'm not really a non-linear snare kinda guy, RMX doesn't seem as sensible as other routes.

Every trip to the synth repair place, at least in nyc, tends to be 300-500. Double is steep tho, dang.

So no one able to speak to getting the Quantec XL software working on Windows or OSX? It seems possible, but hardly worth trying if no-one has done it in ages.
Old 20th April 2018
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
There's also a one in two out version of the QRS, I believe.
Yep, there sure is and you need to check before you part with cash!
I have one of the 1 in two out (QRS/L) versions that I bought with an intermittant fault.
There's nothing sounds quite like the QRS in my experience, but you should really try one first hand to see if it's your thing perhaps.

These units are like vintage cars though and need a lot of work to keep them going. They also don't travel well. The internal design is crap and the long cards flex horribly and can become disconnected or damaged in transit. They are supposedly held solid by a foam pad top and bottom of the case, but this looses its spring over time and so they are liable to become dislodged.
The switches are also prone to failure it seems on occasion.
Mine's been to Mr Welzenbach twice but sadly it failed again after a short while. The last time was probably my fault as the studio overheated and the QRS runs close to the limit temperature wise so it fried.
I'm going to try Jonathan Prager of Studio Piscine à Tokyo, as he seems to have excellent success with all things like Quantec and Eventide from what I can see.
I miss it though, so as soon as funds allow, it's off to be given some tlc...
TTFN,
Ben
Old 20th April 2018
  #17
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I know searching the forums can be painful, but still, here's some threads from High End to help (or not)

quantec 1
quantec 2
quantec 3
quantec 4
quantec 5
quantec 6
Old 20th April 2018
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Without having them all in the room to hear yourself, there's only so far internet opinion will go. That being said, I have had all of the above in the same room.

Short answer - I sold the RMX16, SP-2016, and QRS. Of them all, the only one I regret letting go is the QRS. I had a very well taken care of version I bought from Studio Teknik years ago that was gone over and calibrated and sounded magical.

The QRS and Lexicons do not really overlap. Different algorithms, different ways the developers thought about space and reverb. You can dig through the Geeklutz reverb mega thread, but 3 of the core reverb algorithms that have stood the test of time were Eventide, Lexicon, and Quantec. Each of the developers came to a reverb using different approaches and as a result, the SP-2016 Stereo Room will put a smile on your face when you hear it, just like when you heard the 224XL in person and just like the QRS reverb when you hear it, but all 3 do it differently and sound different as a result. The Bricasti kind of sort of delivers a similar type of vibe, but still not in the QRS way exactly. There are times you want a sound to just sit in a space and the QRS does that so well.

If money was no object, I'd recommend owning the Lexicon 244 (or X or XL or 480L), the QRS, and then one other flavor - either the SP-2016, AMS RMX16, or Publison IM-90. The AMS is the least versatile of the bunch. The SP-2016 is mono or stereo in, stereo out, the IM-90 is dual mono in, 4 outputs (you can run 2 parallel algoithms and they can be different; some algorithms have a mono out, some are stereo). If you had any left over, I'd pick up a Bricasti on top of those, but for a 'vintage flavor' the Bricasti is currently not the best first choice (that opinion may change whenever version 3 comes out).
agree on many things - but i'd add the tc m5000 to the list of must-have-devices: yet another flavour!

my collection (and in daily use):
qrs, 300, m5000, h3000

newer versions such as 2496, pcm96s, m6000 and h8000 aren't bad either: sound a little different but are still easy to be recognized from which family they are.

p.s. the x32 emulation sounds nowhere close to a real qrs (how about the rear efx?) and with the qrs, it's mostly the power supply that causes problems/breaks down (have been going through 3 of them in the last 20 years...)
Old 20th April 2018
  #19
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
So where do you see Space Station within this? My current setup is: 224xl, M300, Ursa Major Space Station.
My comment would be that the SST and 224XL are both 'character' or 'effect' verbs. You're missing a good transparent reverb like a YardStick, Bricasti, PCM92, or a TC Reverb 4000. I'd recommend the 4000 as it's great bang/buck and has a reasonable UI (unlike the PCM92).
Old 20th April 2018
  #20
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Here is the reverb thread from Geekslutz forum.

Anyone who is at all interested in reverb and how it's done and what it does to your source would probably find a lot of interesting stuff in that mega-thread. Inputs there from Casey (Bricasti), Sean Costello, and others with real-world experience.
Old 20th April 2018
  #21
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post

p.s. the x32 emulation sounds nowhere close to a real qrs (how about the rear efx?)
Have you ever used the one in the X32?
Old 20th April 2018
  #22
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
Wow! This is some of the most helpful advice I could hope for here. Didn't know there were three primary 'families' of algorithms, Lexicon, Eventide, and QRS, that is so helpful! Will def check Geekslutz, didn't know about that! Really been re-reading all the old reverb threads I can find, lotta nuggest of wisdom there.
I also forgot about EMT. The 250 (or slightly more affordable 251) is still an amazing classic.
Old 20th April 2018
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Have you ever used the one in the X32?
i'm trying to avoid behringer products, as any other gear manufactured by uli's companies (not out of quality considerations - most is shockingly good these days - but for ethical, economical, ecological, political and personal reasons; got to know him personally, not living that far apart years ago... different topic/thread though)!

regarding the qrs emulation, i wanted to find out and rented an x32 to compare it to the real qrs (as well as to the yardsticks 2402 and 2496): it's possibly one of the better sounding reverbs inside the desk, but NOWHERE NEAR the real thing!

there is quite a bit of a difference between a dual channel and a QUAD channel device with the second pair of efx outputs going into the rears of a surround setup - i'm old enough to have experienced quad (and it's faillure) and multiple surround formats (and their acceptance): the real qrs is still relevant and is only challenged by very few highly specialized reverb/efx devices - but certainly not by the x32 emulation...

maybe both desk and emulation got updated in this regard? i guess not, but dunno.

finally, if you ever got a chance to look inside a qrs and see all the analog stuff in there, do you really think someone would have gone to great pains trying to emulate all of this - and then not capitalize on it but just throw it onto and existing dsp-plattform? i doubt it.

but of course all my assuptions as well as my qrs, mci, studer, (pre-uli-)tannoys and hearing etc. could be flawed...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 21st April 2018 at 01:19 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 21st April 2018
  #24
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I am happy to report I have just received news from Dr. Welzenbach! He had a good reason for not replying, obviously. But it is all fine now.

Best regards
Massimo
Old 22nd April 2018
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
I know searching the forums can be painful, but still, here's some threads from High End to help (or not)

quantec 1
quantec 2
quantec 3
quantec 4
quantec 5
quantec 6
Ah yes! I've read all these, many times (except the Yardstick thread you included). I generally don't create new threads unless I've already pored over whatever I can find by searching, though I don't always find everything of course.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
My comment would be that the SST and 224XL are both 'character' or 'effect' verbs. You're missing a good transparent reverb like a YardStick, Bricasti, PCM92, or a TC Reverb 4000. I'd recommend the 4000 as it's great bang/buck and has a reasonable UI (unlike the PCM92).
Right now I figure the Lex 300 is my semi-transparent reverb for full mixes. I make music that's SUPPOSED to sound a bit old (inspired by classic horror films), so it's kinda an in between the modern TC clarity and older character stuff, I think. Granted, I've only used so many in person.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Here is the reverb thread from Geekslutz forum.

Anyone who is at all interested in reverb and how it's done and what it does to your source would probably find a lot of interesting stuff in that mega-thread. Inputs there from Casey (Bricasti), Sean Costello, and others with real-world experience.
Skimmed this whole thread, all 30 pages. Unless one wants to learn to CODE reverb, I didn't see that much useful in there. Much of it was over my head, and I'm a pretty literate guy with science and math, just not with computer programming and such. Mostly technical details, but clearly invaluable for that. Fascinating in its own right to see Sean, one of our most respected reverb meisters today, learning from Casey and all and slowly becoming who he is today! Same with Acreil, whose insights and knowledge I always find so helpful.

There are a lotta sound samples I have found in few other places, lotta comparisons of identical material in diff verbs, def cool.

One thing I was surprised is in the a/b comparison of the EMT 250 and the UAD plug, I figured the plug was the original!

I really wish there were more extensive comparisons of the originals and the newer plugs, a/b, scientific-like, with enough variations. I've opted for hardware in part because I know it's gonna sound like the real deal, blows me away when I heard it in ways I've yet to have software do, has great resale value even with the plugs around, and never needs updates (though service is part of the deal).

The downside is that just trying out something like UAD has a high barrier to entry, need to get hardware.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #28
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massimo's Avatar
 

Hi all,
I have just received my QRS-XL back from Welzenbach, with a brand new blue/white display and a 1 year warranty
I do not have a manual unfortunately, though the XL is a preset machine until you connect it to a computer so there is not really much to do (I do plan to attempt connection to my pc). Besides asking if anyone here knows how/where to find/buy a manual, I am asking if anyone who owns one knows if it can be used mono in stereo out- asking this since unlike other boxes I have this one has no left or right input with a "/mono" indication added.
Thank you for your help
Old 2nd May 2018
  #29
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Hey Massimo, saw there's a qrs/xl manual for sale from studio electronics (annoying, for sale?!). All the other models you can just download free from the quantec website.

As for getting the software going, seems there's some success with that:

QRS Software control VIA Virtual machine.
Quantec QRS/XL Reverb & Virtual machine success.
Mac SE software for controling Quantec QRS/XL?

From what I found while researching (not sure where I read this though), that if you get a windows 7 computer, it will run the software without needing a shell like in osx or windows 8 and newer. Scouting out prices, you can get a windows 7 computer on ebay for about $90. As I'm not that handy with doing things like creating partitions, seemed an easier approach to me.

I made an offer on a qrs/xl earlier this week but it was declined and sold to a higher bidder. I'm really curious what they sound like, so if you can post a demo, that'd be real cool! Totally curious how it sounds compared to the farfisa demo above, or in general, though I'm more interested int he trippy side than the 'realistic' side. but anything is data for the ears.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #30
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seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
The QRS and Lexicons do not really overlap. Different algorithms, different ways the developers thought about space and reverb. You can dig through the Geeklutz reverb mega thread, but 3 of the core reverb algorithms that have stood the test of time were Eventide, Lexicon, and Quantec. Each of the developers came to a reverb using different approaches and as a result, the SP-2016 Stereo Room will put a smile on your face when you hear it, just like when you heard the 224XL in person and just like the QRS reverb when you hear it, but all 3 do it differently and sound different as a result. The Bricasti kind of sort of delivers a similar type of vibe, but still not in the QRS way exactly. There are times you want a sound to just sit in a space and the QRS does that so well.
Quantec used WAY more memory for their delay lines than Lexicon and (early) Eventide. The SP2016 Stereo Room seems to use around 400 to 500 msec of delay memory. Lexicon 224XL and 480L, about a second or so. Quantec, up to 3 seconds in the original QRS, and up to 50 seconds or so in the latest Quantecs.

How does this affect the sound? (and I'm answering the original poster here, as oldgearguy seems like he has a handle on this stuff)

The longer the total delay lengths in the reverb, the longer it takes to hear an audible pattern in the reverb, assuming it is well designed. If you crank the reverb time up in the SP2016, you will hear some obvious pulsations. Turn the modulation down in a 224XL, and you can hear repeating patterns on long decays. The Quantec in the original post has a much longer repeating pattern, that sounds closer to what you hear bouncing around in a huge acoustic space.

The drawback to using a larger amount of delay time: You need to fill those delays with reflections relatively quickly, or things will sound very sparse. The QRS sounded very grainy, with lots of discrete reflections, when the Size was set to max. Meanwhile, the SP2016 Stereo Room is dense almost instantly, which makes it great for drums.

fromthepuggle, I would suggest trying Rich Plate on your 224XL, set the SIZE parameter to max (80 meters IIRC), and turn the CHORUS down. You might hear something closer to that Quantec example than you would in the other 224XL algorithms. Try adjusting the Diffusion and Definition parameters, to get the right amount of initial sparseness.
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