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Why Don't New VCOs Sound as Good as Old VCOs? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 13th April 2018
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONO.xID View Post
Can't hear anything "bad" with Dreadbox or Dominion 1 VCO's.
I would echo the Dreadbox sentiment and add Vermona to that camp also. I fully confess I'm not familiar with the sound of "vintage" VCOs, but my Vermona Perfourmer mkIIs and Dreadbox Hades sound utterly glorious with no modulation and the filter fully open.
Old 13th April 2018
  #152
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No single Monotribe sounds like another Monotribe
a)all VCOs
b)all recent
c)fair deviation in Fc and Res

I have 5, so a fairly good cross-section
(about to trade for my 6th)

I'd say they sound mutant vintage.
As they are semi-DIY, due to the CV/Gate cables,
they are not for everyone.

Had a CS-40m, lovely tone (Yamaha CS-40 is up there in vintage)
too heavy to gig-sold to fellow GSer, who now has 2 CS_40ms..

Anyhow, if you like the vintage, do the vintage, if not, go modern.
I know as a Vermona perFOURmer and '14 player that modern can sound vintagesque.
There, there is your new word.

Now kids, play nice!
Old 13th April 2018
  #153
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonfocius View Post
This is fantastic, two electrical engineers contradict themselves on GS.
And i was about to hit the faculty path to become one.

Now i'll have to think about it once more.
Old 13th April 2018
  #154
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonfocius View Post
This is fantastic, two electrical engineers contradict themselves on GS.
And i was about to hit the faculty path to become one.

Now i'll have to think about it once more.
Come, don't be afraid... JOIN US!!!
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Old 13th April 2018
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
No single Monotribe sounds like another Monotribe
a)all VCOs
b)all recent
c)fair deviation in Fc and Res

I have 5, so a fairly good cross-section
(about to trade for my 6th)

I'd say they sound mutant vintage.
As they are semi-DIY, due to the CV/Gate cables,
they are not for everyone.

Had a CS-40m, lovely tone (Yamaha CS-40 is up there in vintage)
too heavy to gig-sold to fellow GSer, who now has 2 CS_40ms..

Anyhow, if you like the vintage, do the vintage, if not, go modern.
I know as a Vermona perFOURmer and '14 player that modern can sound vintagesque.
There, there is your new word.

Now kids, play nice!
Best thread post so far. All your base belong to monotribe
Old 13th April 2018
  #156
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ARE belong. You must get your grammar right!
Old 13th April 2018
  #157
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jupiter8's Avatar
 

Because there are no bad old VCOs left. They're in a landfill somewhere.
Old 13th April 2018
  #158
Ksp
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if you record to bad tape it all sounds vintage, old cassette , your mums old radio amp , re record it over and over for that lovely boards of canada ****eness , if you want the ' BIG ' of vintage then pre amp it up through a transformer or 2 , valve it into bigness and then tape it for the wow and flutter , stack up processors , 2 x pres and a console into a valve tape recorder , instant cliff richard
Old 13th April 2018
  #159
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Dammit, I accidentally liked the OP's initial post when I was trying to see which 6 people here actually liked it, and I have no idea how to unlike things on Gearslutz. How the hell do you unlike things here?
Old 13th April 2018
  #160
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
and I have no idea how to unlike things on Gearslutz. How the hell do you unlike things here?
the easiest way is to simply send people with posts you dislike a pm where you write: you can fu*k the fu*k off you cocksucking motherfu*ker! easy as that! that will get the message across.
this also works on other forums and facebook, and internal job email etc etc. you heard it first here!
Old 13th April 2018
  #161
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To me old synths sound dated in a bad way. Lifeless and dull. Not exciting at all.
Old 13th April 2018
  #162
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Try this



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
Dammit, I accidentally liked the OP's initial post when I was trying to see which 6 people here actually liked it, and I have no idea how to unlike things on Gearslutz. How the hell do you unlike things here?
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Old 13th April 2018
  #163
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BTByrd's Avatar
Maybe you have bad taste in new synths. Or maybe it's all in your head.

My VCOs are all "new" and they all sound good.
Old 13th April 2018
  #164
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
Maybe you have bad taste in new synths. Or maybe it's all in your head.

My VCOs are all "new" and they all sound good.
I concluded this summary/thread as bull**** from the get go, modern korg reissues, Behringer D, modern Sequential etc etc all sound good and proper to my ears. I have even been floored by the Matrixbrute soundwise which is completely a new design.
Old 13th April 2018
  #165
PES
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PES's Avatar
???

Isn't new Vintage Coloured Oscillators a contradiction? How can something be new and vintage at the same time? We must wait at least 20-30 years for something made today to be vintage, hence there is no current VCO synths.

Example: the original D50 uses VCOs, but the new one doesn't - yet!
Old 13th April 2018
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PES View Post
Isn't new Vintage Coloured Oscillators a contradiction? How can something be new and vintage at the same time? We must wait at least 20-30 years for something made today to be vintage, hence there is no current VCO synths.

Example: the original D50 uses VCOs, but the new one doesn't - yet!
VCO means voltage controlled oscillators, what do you mean by vintage coloured oscillators, that's not what VCO stands for?
Old 13th April 2018
  #167
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
I concluded this summary/thread as bull**** from the get go, modern korg reissues, Behringer D, modern Sequential etc etc all sound good and proper to my ears. I have even been floored by the Matrixbrute soundwise which is completely a new design.
And you would be right. it IS all bull****. first and foremost it sounds the same if its smd/through hole. and it sounds the same if it measures the same/is adjusted the same.

secondly unless you have a modular you're not listening to bare oscs. so all this **** is invalid from the fukn start!
Old 13th April 2018
  #168
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do any of you have an actual idea how much you have to distort a saw wave for it not to sound like a saw wave?? When its halfway to square then it sounds different kinda. just saying. and you can distort it heavily (on a scope) and not be able to hear it all!

this is all BS!
Old 13th April 2018
  #169
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Moan zone please!
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Old 13th April 2018
  #170
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than what??
Old 13th April 2018
  #171
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hgigh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
VCO means voltage controlled oscillators, what do you mean by vintage coloured oscillators, that's not what VCO stands for?


In before Moan Zone.
Old 13th April 2018
  #172
Gear Maniac
I would tend to agree with the OP, I have a newer SEM and heard the old the old one.... I found that the osc seemed to sound nicer on the older SEM

..I have a friend who has 2 ARP synths and he says the bass is better on vintage. I had many myself in the past, never heard anything that sounded like an SH2, Jupiter 4, like a CS60 ring mod, or a polaris filter..... even the juno-60 sound is special.

I tested a minitaur not long ago and the osc were really pumping bass i.m.o. but the filter did not sound deep to me.

The Dominion does sound really thick, and dreadbox has some vintage magic too.

btw I will never go back to vintage, considering current prices and that stuff can cost a lot to repair or maintain.

I think that today is a great time for synths considering how they are affordable and good sounding overall.
Old 13th April 2018
  #173
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autoy's Avatar
Just before this thread pays a visit to the moan zone:

The problem with these threads is that there’s a very slim amount of people who had the chance to play vintage instruments, let alone compare them side by side with modern top quality equivalents. Most of the opinions here are basically derived from the current measuring system which is YouTube demos. This is a terrible way to judge things, as not only YT audio has hearble, proofed terrible definition loss but the way a synth is played and the social reactions it in terms of upvotes, downvotes etc. causes bias over the perceived quality of an instrument. The success of a new instrument is very dependent on the general consensus and opinion of uninformed masses. The lack of quality demos for an obscure synth can unfairly burry it, maybe sometimes for the best preventing insane price inflations.

The alarming lack of proffesional quality reviews from sources you can trust in written media (physical and online) also leaves the buyer unprotected. I’ve completely changed my mind about some synths after hands on sessions in a big retailer where I can try lots of stuff. I’ve been overwhelmed at how much better things sound in real life where the only previous reference has been a video optimized for mobile phones. I’ve been underwhelmed at build qualities and ergonomics that looked good in a blog post. I can only say that if you can, go play the things first. I encourage everyone to post their experiences after the fact.
Old 14th April 2018
  #174
Gear Maniac
 
jc2046's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
VCO means voltage controlled oscillators, what do you mean by vintage coloured oscillators, that's not what VCO stands for?
He means Vintage Chicken Oscillators
Old 14th April 2018
  #175
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2046 View Post
He means Vintage Chicken Oscillators
Makes sense now, up until you correcting it I thought he was talking bollocks...
Old 14th April 2018
  #176
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
Makes sense now, up until you correcting it I thought he was talking bollocks...
ERM, GS you need to add that word to your list of censored words, it should of read b******s.
Old 14th April 2018
  #177
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enossified's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOYZ View Post
it seems to me you are contradicting yourself to some extent.
I understand why you wrote that, but I was discussing two things that are orthogonal. What makes something sound good is the design. It may be by careful work or it might be by total accident (like the TB-303).

Quote:
Handwired vs PCB likely changes the physical 3d topology somewhat. Electrical characteristics would also change (resistance, capacitance). However, I'm not aware of any classic synths where PCBs weren't used, I don't think hardwired ever came up.
Using one over the other does not make the sound better by itself. Which is what I meant.

Quote:
Through hole vs SMT means using different components which you yourself said can make a difference. SMT caps typically have lower ESR than their through-hole equivalents.

Vintage caps vs modern caps: if all their parameters are exactly the same it shouldn't matter, but that equivalence should include their parasitic properties (resistance, inductance, capacitance).
Again, this is true but just because it's through hole or because it's a vintage component does not immediately make the sound better by itself.

Quote:
Even if you copy the original design from the original schematics (or by tracing the PCB), you are still making a different implementation with different components with possibly different characteristics. Making a 'perfect' clone might require measuring the original components used and adding components to the new design to account for the parasitic properties of the components used in the original.
Exactly!!!!!!

My point was simply that people attribute the sound to things that are not necessarily the reason at all. It's all just armchair engineering and conjecture.
Old 14th April 2018
  #178
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
Maybe you have bad taste in new synths. Or maybe it's all in your head.

My VCOs are all "new" and they all sound good.
Wait... what is the cutoff date for “new?” If the OP’s hypothesis is true, then there has to be a date when VCOs started sucking. If we could pinpoint that date, we might just crack the case.
Old 14th April 2018
  #179
Gear Maniac
 

Even if you have two identical sounding synths where one is vintage and one is new you can be sure there will be people saying the vintage sound way better. I've seen this happen a before were Ive had the luxury to compare myself.
There's so much misinformation an bias going on. I think it's hard to trust anyone on these topics.
Old 14th April 2018
  #180
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Well yeah. This thread is bogus from the outset. Imagine you have friends over. You show them a big chunky ancient thing with wood panelling and cold war era control panel, and ask them to compare the sound with something next to it which is clearly post-digital revolution. You say "hey, listen to this one, now. . . listen to this venerable antique." And you expect to form an objective opinion based on their casual responses? Lol.

I'm not wanting everyone to drop everything and make scientific studies of this stuff, can't imagine what that would be supposed to achieve anyway. But I hate to think about the noobs who read the first page of this thread - those people who have so much to learn about production and musicality without being worried by trivial concerns about their basic tool pallette - and start wondering whether they should be paying thousands for old cr*p which is going to burden them with repair bills for the next five years plus.

I really like gearslutz, and I dig vintage gear as much as the next person, but really this is a very silly thread.
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