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Why Don't New VCOs Sound as Good as Old VCOs? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 28th April 2018
  #571
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You are not a car my friend. That was intelligently designed, no?

People are more than Object they are also Subject and also something uniquely moral when these two collide. A 3-dimensional trinity. :D

And, I do not agree that old VCOs have a magical fairy dust.
Old 28th April 2018
  #572
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Freeweb View Post
Ok, if you guys can’t hear a difference with the general character or quality of sound between the machines in the video...
we can leave it at that.
For me it‘s very clear what‘s got the vintage vibe and what the modern vibe.





You may say I‘m just a fool, but I‘m not the only one:
„When you connect with an instrument, no matter of what sort, there is an interaction that’s outside of what’s actually going through your fingers. I hesitate to use the word ‘spiritual’, but I’m absolutely sure that there is a consciousness that we connect with.“Bob Moog

Found at SYNTH-WERK website.
You’re making a mistake. The argument isn’t that they’re the same. The argument isn’t even that someone shouldn’t have a preference, but I’m saying that you can’t say that one is better than the other, only that you personally prefer one to the other. See the difference? You are assigning a property of “good” to things that you like that doesn’t really exist.

Look at this example. I have rejected a lot of modern synths for various reasons. Slim Phatty? Gone. Sub Phatty? Gone. Boomstar SEM? Gone. I’d never say that those synths are worse than ones that I’ve kept, only that they’re lacking characteristics that I want in a synth. A lot of people like them and I’d never say that they are wrong and I am right. I only trashed one modern synth (Prophet 12) but it was because I actually had a malfunctioning unit that DSI support wasn’t ready to cop to.

Anyway, when the Prophet 6, and later the OB-6 came out, I simply listened to the demos and I liked what I heard. I didn’t know that Dave hadn’t used the exact same oscillator design tha the did with the 5. I didn’t care. I just liked it. I thought that maybe the OB was a bit more my style but there were enough demos that I had fallen in love with of the Prophet that the price difference didn’t seem to make a difference. (The difference was big because there was no module for the OB, so size was a factor too) So, now a bunch of people on the internet are telling me that my opinion is wrong. I’m cool with that, but be prepared to be told that you’re full of sh!t too.
Old 28th April 2018
  #573
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
You are not a car my friend. That was intelligently designed, no?

People are more than Object they are also Subject and also something uniquely moral when these two collide. A 3-dimensional trinity. :D

And, I do not agree that old VCOs have a magical fairy dust.
Wait... are you telling me that my car wasn’t intelligently designed?
Old 28th April 2018
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddoggie View Post
Those are some badass shoes
Old 28th April 2018
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Wait... are you telling me that my car wasn’t intelligently designed?
Depends on what you’re driving!
Old 28th April 2018
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
Depends on what you’re driving!


Ford Focus Electric. Seems pretty intelligently designed, though it could be better. Not sure why the battery has to take up cargo space. Somewhere between Smartcar and Tesla 3. I can tell it with words to turn on the A/C. Does it have a soul?
Old 28th April 2018
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
There's plenty of evidence that a soul probably doesn't exist. Maybe not enough to be 100% sure, but I'll take it. If they did, how could a head injury change a person's personality and cognition so drastically?
LOL
The original soul gets bounced off the head with the blow that also caused the physical injury, then the evil soul enters the empty space.

Obviously.
Old 28th April 2018
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post


Ford Focus Electric. Seems pretty intelligently designed, though it could be better. Not sure why the battery has to take up cargo space. Somewhere between Smartcar and Tesla 3. I can tell it with words to turn on the A/C. Does it have a soul?
Does it have a Hamster?
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Old 28th April 2018
  #579
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Every time someone plays a vintage VCO, an angel loses its wings.
Wait, that doesn't fly...more unsubstantiated propaganda from me!
Old 29th April 2018
  #580
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This thread should be banned and that portion of hard drives salted so nothing is ever stored here again. I really wish people would stop bumping it.
Old 29th April 2018
  #581
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daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
This thread should be banned and that portion of hard drives salted so nothing is ever stored here again. I really wish people would stop bumping it.
bump
Old 29th April 2018
  #582
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Deathsynth

Synthicide!!!

Got no soul
Old 29th April 2018
  #583
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post


Ford Focus Electric. Seems pretty intelligently designed, though it could be better. Not sure why the battery has to take up cargo space.
Because the car was not designed with a large battery pack in mind ... It's like asking why your smartphone doesn't have wheels (sorry if that most assuredly came across as snarky) ...
Old 29th April 2018
  #584
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
Because the car was not designed with a large battery pack in mind ... It's like asking why your smartphone doesn't have wheels (sorry if that most assuredly came across as snarky) ...
Oh, I know. But it was a significantly nicer car with better specs than the Leaf, so I get that aspect was a trade off.

As for snark, I dish it out so I’d better be aboto take it!
Old 29th April 2018
  #585
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
This thread should be banned and that portion of hard drives salted so nothing is ever stored here again. I really wish people would stop bumping it.
Oh dear FSM, I hope this post was meant as ironic.
Old 29th April 2018
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Oh dear FSM, I hope this post was meant as ironic.
I hope so because otherwise it is quite malicious - anyone who is anything knows that a hard drive that is salted to death has no means of transporting its soul to the western lands.
Old 29th April 2018
  #587
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Oh dear FSM, I hope this post was meant as ironic.
At least we both agree that the OB-6 and OB-Xa sound quantifiably different.
Old 29th April 2018
  #588
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
At least we both agree that the OB-6 and OB-Xa sound quantifiably different.
Did anyone ever say they sounded the same? News flash: Different synthesizers sound different.
Old 29th April 2018
  #589
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
Every time someone plays a vintage VCO, an angel loses its wings.
Wait, that doesn't fly...!
Yes, pretty hard to fly with out their wings.
Old 29th April 2018
  #590
Gear Maniac
 

Great. We are answering in principle unanswerable questions. This is the stage where we all get autobiographical. That is where the magic lies.

We see a football, eye up the target, kick the ball and off it goes. You see a dog, eye up the target, kick the dog ... different trajectory. Both are structure determined systems in the eye of the observer. No need to invoke notions of the soul etc.
Old 29th April 2018
  #591
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Did anyone ever say they sounded the same? News flash: Different synthesizers sound different.
You said there was no quantifiable difference. If they sound different, that is a quantifiable difference.

You are so busted. May as well admit the OB-Xa sounds better, everyone knows it. And my OB-X sounds even better than that, makes the OB-6 sound like a little girl crying on the internet.
Old 29th April 2018
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
You said there was no quantifiable difference. If they sound different, that is a quantifiable difference.

You are so busted. May as well admit the OB-Xa sounds better, everyone knows it. And my OB-X sounds even better than that, makes the OB-6 sound like a little girl crying on the internet.
Except that the OB-6 filters sound wildly better than those of the OB-Xa in 2-pole mode, so there’s that. And they’re multimode, like the Four-Voice.

Kornstop, you were saying...?
Old 29th April 2018
  #593
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBA View Post
How do you know that things like soul and imagination aren't real? I'd love to see some evidence for that.
The onus is on the soul-believers.
Noone can ever give evidence for something not existing.
So it is up to the people who claim that something exists to prove that it does indeed exist.

So the technical answer to your question is:"Because noone has demonstrated the existance of souls."

I'm not sure why you mention imagination because that is something that can be demonstrated easily.
Look, a giant green octopus flowerpot is hoovering above the city!
That was my imagination. It exists.

Last edited by monomer; 29th April 2018 at 01:47 PM..
Old 29th April 2018
  #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
makes the OB-6 sound like a little girl crying on the internet.
Dang! The OB-6 might be just perfect for my horror movie project
Old 29th April 2018
  #595
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
We exist within an isolated thermo-dynamic system. It can’t just “disappear”.
But it definitely can disintegrate!
No known thermodynamic system is isolated.

Last edited by monomer; 29th April 2018 at 01:47 PM..
Old 29th April 2018
  #596
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
The onus is on the soul-believers.
Noone can ever give evidence for something not existing.
So it is up to the people who claim that something exists to prove that it does indeed exist.

So the technical answer to your question is:"Because noone has demonstrated the existance of souls."

I'm not sure why you mention imagination because that is something that can be demonstrated easily.
Look, a giant green octopus flowerpot is hoovering above the city!
That was my imagination. It exists.
Exactly, and it's not as if this is a new thing ...

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia
Old 29th April 2018
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
But it definitely can disintegrate!
No known thermodynamic system is isolated.
The universe is and the universe is expanding exponentially.

The universe is somehow bound together somehow by a superluminal force, of which gravity is the simplest glimpse.

So whatever the “livingness” is, it leaves the body to exist somewhere else.

It doesn’t “disappear”.
Old 29th April 2018
  #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
The universe is and the universe is expanding exponentially.
That is pretty much unknowable i'm afraid.
Our view of the universe is pretty localized.
And even then, what we do know is that the edges of the known universe move so quickly that they form a horizon. And thus any information that goes over that horizon is lost from our perspective.
In other words, the known universe loses information and is thus per definition not a closed system.

Quote:
So whatever the “livingness” is, it leaves the body to exist somewhere else.

It doesn’t “disappear”.
Sure, but neither does it stay coherent. And due to the laws of thermodynamics you won't be able to put it back together anymore after a very very short period of time.

If you let out the air in a balloon then you could say that the air that formed the volume of the balloon doesn't 'disappear'. That's all cool.
But you can't say that it will stay in the shape of a balloon. The air molecules will fly off in all directions. In fact, just the process of leaving the balloon wil scramble the shape of the air into a turbulent mess.

Same with all the energies/information comprising whatever our brain does.
Once that system breaks down it will lose its coherence to the environment and cease to exist as a recognizable thing.
Old 29th April 2018
  #599
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBA View Post
Dang! The OB-6 might be just perfect for my horror movie project
One.. Two..
Dave's coming for you.
Three.. Four..
Better lock your door.
Five.. Six..
Dump your OB-6.
Seven.. Eight..
Don't click the bait.
Nine.. Ten..
Another completely useless thread about how old stuff is always better than new stuff or not you decide as long as you agree, again..
Old 29th April 2018
  #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
That is pretty much unknowable i'm afraid.
Our view of the universe is pretty localized.
And even then, what we do know is that the edges of the known universe move so quickly that they form a horizon. And thus any information that goes over that horizon is lost from our perspective.
In other words, the known universe loses information and is thus per definition not a closed system.



Sure, but neither does it stay coherent. And due to the laws of thermodynamics you won't be able to put it back together anymore after a very very short period of time.

If you let out the air in a balloon then you could say that the air that formed the volume of the balloon doesn't 'disappear'. That's all cool.
But you can't say that it will stay in the shape of a balloon. The air molecules will fly off in all directions. In fact, just the process of leaving the balloon wil scramble the shape of the air into a turbulent mess.

Same with all the energies/information comprising whatever our brain does.
Once that system breaks down it will lose its coherence to the environment and cease to exist as a recognizable thing.
The second law of thermodynamics makes it knowable within a probability.

Beyond the event horizon may not be anything at all.

The working theory is that there is nothing. This allows for a theory of physics to be developed and tested.

The universe is entropic. This is the red flag that it is isolated. Everything that is, is within This that Is.

Plants fix radiation into usable energy every day. But at an entropic cost.

Another example, the particle beam in Star Trek has been created in reality.



The soul, might be this livingness, whatever it is.

It could be some sort of dark matter.

It may be superluminal.

It may be conscious ....

Some folks at Caltech figured out that space might be so bent, that we literally collapse our own wave functions of Beingness. That is, a wave function must be collapsed for something to he and perhaps we are witnessing ourselves. This is Schroedinger’s Cat in essence.
So, is the electron... the photon conscious in some way?

You don’t know. I don’t know.

But there is a probability for anything. Anything is possible within a certain probability.

Like the Cambrian explosion. Highly improbable but apparently it happened.
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