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Why Don't New VCOs Sound as Good as Old VCOs? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 21st April 2018
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBA View Post
I agree that some of the opening post of this thread could probably been worded differently.

How about this:

Arguably, there have been many synth heads, over the last 20 years or so, that have arrived at a similar conclusion to mine, namely that newish VCO based synths for some reason don't have the same degree of pleasing tone to them as those made in the 70's and 80's.

If those of you who disagree with the premise that old VCO based synths sound better than new could be so kind to conduct your business elswhere, so that we could avoid 12 pages of bickering, it would be highly apprechiated.

I don't intend to offend anyone that thinks new VCO based synths sound just as good as any of the old ones, I just would like to know what some of you that hear similar things as I discribe, when playing old VCO based synths, think is the main reason(s) why new VCO based synths don't have that same «magic» tone.

Thanks to all of you who disagree with this premise for leaving this thread to us superstitious, nostalgic snobs. Under no circumstance would I question your knowledge, and even though I ask you to stay out of this particular discussion, I still have the deepest respect for your perspective on this matter, I just think that in this particular thread it would be a more fruitfull discussion if it was left out.

Many thanks

neonrider



Would it help, or would you still strive to keep the one actual question in this thread from being discussed?
This would be shorter and more succinct:

I'm looking to stoke my confirmation bias, I'll do so in the guise of a vintage vs new synth thread, any takers?
Old 21st April 2018
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
It's evident in the two posts he's contributed to this thread he believes the oscillator, and "some kind of DSP control" of the oscillators is responsible for taking away the "aliveness" of newer synths.
Just because he cites those things in one post does not mean he can't also believe that clocking, amps, and other parts of the signal chain play a role. Nothing about those things are mutually exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Neonrider has done a pretty good job articulating his position.
Yes, including the citation of "clocking, pitch control, amps, signal chains, or all the above" as possible causes for the difference in sound of old VCOs vs. new VCOs, to the contrary claims of the users I cited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
You been challenged to step out of your self-appointed role as doing neonrider's bidding and articulate a position of your own.
Cool story bro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Not even getting into who's using words to hang his hat on ...
The question is not whether those users' theories are correct or evidence of anything, the question is whether those many users should be denied the right to voice their opinions simply because of a vocal minority have a personal problem with a single person who started the thread. Congrats on missing the point though.
Old 21st April 2018
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Your "main point" has been to hang your hat on one line of text in the OP's initial post, and to ignore the entirety of his position, which he attempts to clarify in his second post.
But why on earth is the OPs position, attitude or smell of breath more important than his plain and honest question?

This thread is like approaching a black hole, complete with the distortion of reality and all
Old 21st April 2018
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
This would be shorter and more succinct:

I'm looking to stoke my confirmation bias, I'll do so in the guise of a vintage vs new synth thread, any takers?
I'm sorry, but that still revolve around the OP and his person instead of his question. Do you see the difference, or should I explain it to you?

Last edited by HUBA; 22nd April 2018 at 12:38 AM..
Old 21st April 2018
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBA View Post
If those of you who disagree with the premise that old VCO based synths sound better than new could be so kind to conduct your business elswhere, so that we could avoid 12 pages of bickering, it would be highly apprechiated.

I don't intend to offend anyone that thinks new VCO based synths sound just as good as any of the old ones, I just would like to know what some of you that hear similar things as I discribe, when playing old VCO based synths, think is the main reason(s) why new VCO based synths don't have that same «magic» tone.
So what vintage and new synth have you compared? I've already stated that I only own vintage synths apart from a couple of mono synths like verbos and minimoog reissue.
Old 21st April 2018
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSM2030 View Post
So what vintage and new synth have you compared? I've already stated that I only own vintage synths apart from a couple of mono synths like verbos and minimoog reissue.
I have limited first hand experience with VCOs. And only monos.

You're quoting a part of a suggested hypothetic opening post for neonrider. It isn't meant to reflect my view on the matter. I thought that was pretty clear
Old 21st April 2018
  #367
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All old synths have the magic fairy dust and NONE of the new ones do?

I remember these same tired propositions in high end 10 years ago.

How is it Greg Wells can create masterpiece mixes with that lame Portico 5043? It doesn’t have fairy dust.

The assumption by the OP is that all of these old synths have a “sound”.

Maybe it’s tape. Maybe he hears the recordings from then and thinks it’s the synth and not the tape? I dunno. I doubt he’s listened to ALL vintage synths and ALL new synths. It’s anecdotal.

If he has a/b/c blind compared fifty vintage synths side by side with fifty new analog, I might begin to take this sweeping generalization seriously.

But comparing his Korg Monologue to an Oberheim Xpander with his friends is anecdotal at best.

Last edited by Deleted User; 22nd April 2018 at 01:44 AM..
Old 22nd April 2018
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
Just because he cites those things in one post does not mean he can't also believe that clocking, amps, and other parts of the signal chain play a role. Nothing about those things are mutually exclusive.
I never said they were, and he can believe whatever he wants, but you can't believe it for him, nor put words in his mouth.

Quote:
Yes, including the citation of "clocking, pitch control, amps, signal chains, or all the above" as possible causes for the difference in sound of old VCOs vs. new VCOs, to the contrary claims of the users I cited.
His citation of the line you keep hanging your hat on was more or less rhetorical, he threw it out only to dismiss it in his conclusion, which was evident in the thread title and premise. Neonrider is an "oscillator fan", he thinks oscillators are "musical". He thinks oscillators are the key to the issue - if you can't see this, it's you who's missing his point.

Quote:
Cool story bro.
Yeah, I didn't think you were up to it

Quote:
The question is not whether those users' theories are correct or evidence of anything, the question is whether those many users should be denied the right to voice their opinions simply because of a vocal minority have a personal problem with a single person who started the thread. Congrats on missing the point though.
Oh, is that the "question" now?

I don't see where I or anyone else suggested all those people weren't allowed their "opinions", I haven't even suggested the OP isn't "allowed" his opinion ... perhaps the "tainted example" strikes a little too close to home, forcing yet another redefining of your point, which you claim keeps being missed? Keep moving those goalposts around and no one will "get your point".

Perhaps that is your point.

As for "vocal minorities", I haven't gone through the thread keeping score on who agrees or disagrees with me, but there was a time when the majority believed the earth was flat, there was a man in the moon, and the comedian Gallagher was funny, but this thread hasn't ended yet, so who knows???.

To be certain I'm "getting it", in summary, the thread is about the irrefutable "fact" that new synths sound worse than old ones. There's "...NO debating this." Everyone agrees and friends (who aren't musicians) drop their panties (sometimes) in support.

Vintage synths are so remarkable, they're immune from the normal economics of the collectors market, and command huge prices simply because they're wonderful, and full of magic fairy dust.

Furthermore, the devolving of the poor synthesizer in the current market is the result of dsp-controlled oscillators instead of "autotuned" oscillators.

.... aside from that, there are people who agree with all or part of his premise/conclusion, then there's you trying your best to redefine the OP's narrative to fit what you think he should mean it to be, while erecting strawmen, distortions and moving of the goalposts.

I think that about sums up this thread pretty well. Except for the handful of people you don't want to listen to ...

Last edited by Sharp11; 22nd April 2018 at 01:03 AM..
Old 22nd April 2018
  #369
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I wonder if Bach or Mozart sat around debating the difference between new and old violins they would have written any music
Old 22nd April 2018
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
I wonder if Bach or Mozart sat around debating the difference between new and old violins they would have written any music
Given the vitriol apparent in the published letters I've read from famous composers, had they had an internet account, I'm pretty sure they'd have argued, too

However, it is possible to argue and write music, good and bad.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #371
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New(ish) MS-20, Korg Odyssey...there’s a boatload of eurorack that is just brilliant. Deckard’s Dream, TT-303, the maxi and mini brute are awesome.

I think the prologue has a great character but it’s not my thing.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #372
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all year long people come to the studio and say 'wow, that ( insert synth we have on hand ) sounds freaking fantastic. just the way they say 'holy **** that sounds so much better' when i take the **** utility plugin eq off their mix and set up the massive passive with similar settings. analog still wins here all year long. contrary to what the bedroom po-ducer dildos on reddit say.

synths on hand at the studio ( short list ):
Arp 2600
minimoog d
Jupiter 8 Encore
Korg MS10

i am so tired of the BS on reddit i have been adding "anyone is welcome to come hear the difference at the studio" because declaring truths anonymously makes no sense anywhere and at any time. no one ever does. possibly because the truth is that they have never heard the difference IRL and have no interest in doing so...
Old 22nd April 2018
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
I don't see where I or anyone else suggested all those people weren't allowed their "opinions"
SSM2030 directly stated the thread should have ended at post 2, which was quoted directly in the passage you responded to, but congrats on being blind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
To be certain I'm "getting it", in summary, the thread is about the irrefutable "fact" that new synths sound worse than old ones. There's "...NO debating this." Everyone agrees and friends (who aren't musicians) drop their panties (sometimes) in support.
Lets do a quick breakdown of how many words went into each part of the OP:
  • His first 2 paragraphs comprise 59 words explaining the premise that he believes vintage VCO synths sound better.
  • He then spends 39 words asking why, and expanding his question to include DCO-based synths.
  • He devotes 40 words to complimenting new analog synths and citing new analogs which come close to replicating the sound of old analogs.
  • He spends 20 words dismissing the "anything sounds good with the right EQ" excuse.
  • Then he spends 148 words proposing possible design/engineering influences in vintage VCO synths achieving a more favorable sound, including 2 paragraphs on autotune/pitch control, and the sentences addressing other parts of the signal chain.

Literally over half of the OP is devoted to why vintage synths have the sonic differences claimed, and proposing possible design/engineering factors, while less than a third of the total word count is devoted to mere gloating over the fact that vintage synths sound better. His paragraph complimenting new synths is almost as long as the two paragraphs stating vintage synths sound better!

What is on the page simply does not support the lopsided narrative you've interpreting. You've chosen to outright ignore the majority of his post in order to cite a minority of it as the "true meaning", which suggests a biased, defensive assessment of the post more than an objective one. It's quite simply not convincing.

Moreover, even if the entire post was insincere or he had ulterior motives, you have yet to explain what relevance that has to the discussion. The point of an OP is to set a topic of conversation, not submit one's self to a character review. As long as it prompts interesting replies from respondents, why does it matter how honestly the OP really believes in the topic?

The next time we have a thread from a supposed newbie asking for advice on entry level gear, can we look forward to a hostile interrogation from Sharp11 and SSM2030 insisting that everyone's answers are invalid because the OP is not really a newbie but a lying Memorymoog collector in disguise?
Old 22nd April 2018
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post


Lets do a quick breakdown of how many words went into each part of the OP:
Let's not, it doesn't matter - he could've spent six days talking about the weather, and one or two lines making his case, and by asserting his opinion as some kind of "known fact" that wasn't "debatable" he'd still have poisoned the well, and been wrong. You apparently agree as you decided to ignore all of his content and run for several pages repeating one line you thought won you a point.

Logical arguments don't depend on padded word counts, and whether there's praise or criticism, they depend on a premise, a reasoned argument and a conclusion. That's it. You can state a case and argue it in a few words, or you can pad it with a logical fallacy called "special pleading" - it's the arguer's choice, but I'm betting the lean and mean one wins nine times out of ten.

You continue to not see what's happening here, though, I'm not attacking his position, as I said earlier, I dismissed it a long time ago as a biased and anecdotal event - it's your assertions and rewriting of his narrative I take issue with and I'm addressing.

No one's going to convince you that the words on the page neonrider wrote aren't the same as the ones you think he meant to write - he's pretty sure of his position, he stated it twice.

And that seems to be your point after all, to hold steadfast to a position you cannot defend, but will go to the mat trying - spending time doing word counts and measuring content is ... well, just bizarre.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post

The assumption by the OP is that all of these old synths have a “sound”.

Maybe it’s tape. Maybe he hears the recordings from then and thinks it’s the synth and not the tape? I dunno. I doubt he’s listened to ALL vintage synths and ALL new synths. It’s anecdotal.

If he has a/b/c blind compared fifty vintage synths side by side with fifty new analog, I might begin to take this sweeping generalization seriously.

But comparing his Korg Monologue to an Oberheim Xpander with his friends is anecdotal at best.
Amen bro - among musicians, the lack of understanding of our built-in biases is mind numbing - it's as if they want to be fooled.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
you decided to ignore all of his content and run for several pages repeating one line you thought won you a point.
...which did win me a point, since the posts I was arguing against claimed that he never said the line in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
by asserting his opinion as some kind of "known fact" that wasn't "debatable" he'd still have poisoned the well, and been wrong.
Since when were we debating whether or not neonrider is right? Do you even know what you're trying to argue anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Logical arguments don't depend on padded word counts, and whether there's praise or criticism, they depend on a premise, a reasoned argument and a conclusion.
Firstly, since when does an OP to any thread need to follow the formal format of a logical argument to form a valid discussion? At best I'd say the OP was more of a discussion question.

Secondly, since he cited old VCO synths sounding better as his premise, with the design and engineering influences being arguments to be discussed, it fits the bill anyway. It also explains why he didn't care to debate whether or not they sound better.

Thirdly, even if his post bore zero resemblance to a logical argument, how does that affect me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
No one's going to convince me that the words on the page neonrider wrote aren't the same as the ones I think he meant to write
Fixed that for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
it's your assertions and rewriting of his narrative I take issue with and I'm addressing.
Why am I supposed to care about your opinion on this again?
Old 22nd April 2018
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
SSM2030 directly stated the thread should have ended at post 2, which was quoted directly in the passage you responded to, but congrats on being blind.

The next time we have a thread from a supposed newbie asking for advice on entry level gear, can we look forward to a hostile interrogation from Sharp11 and SSM2030 insisting that everyone's answers are invalid because the OP is not really a newbie but a lying Memorymoog collector in disguise?
Because he asked the wrong thing and the answer why was posted directly. If you expect help and you are newbie then don't act like you know everything. I see this a lot especially after behringer released their first synth. I mean not even up for debate..
You are just one of those people who need to have the last word, even do you are proven wrong over and over, constantly misinterpreting what others say. I'm done.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
...and you’re certain that you’d hear that difference in a mix once everything is EQd, Compressed, FXd and Mastered? You’d bet your reputation and all your belongings on that?

The trouble with all these kinds of threads is that people compare sounds in isolation, more often than not with no FX or EQ, and honestly... how many pieces of music / songs are ever recorded like that? I can practically guarantee that in a mix with other instruments, ALL synths will need EQ to some degree in order to play well within a track.

The synth is just the starting point. There is so much more that can be done to shape the sound in the mix, so the take-away from this as far as music creation is concerned is that it’s not the be-all-and-end-all what a synth sounds like in dry isolation. What’s more important is that you like its inherent tone, the interface for sound creation and how you connect with it.

However, if people are not buying synths for creating music but instead to collect them like fine wines, play them dry and in isolation then that’s a different issue completely and I can then understand why the dry nuances of tone would come into play and why they’d be so important.

I feel there are two types of synth buyers here. Those that use them as musical tools and those who collect and appreciate them for what they are. Perhaps a third where there’s a cross-over. In any case, this thread (and others) will therefore have different perspectives depending on the buyer’s eventual use of the synth.

No?
No , cause when you sit down and play something like a chroma, the majestic sound inspires you to greater heights of musicality.

and lets face it, everyone can do with that help..

its posible, you could write the same music sitting in front of a comp with an average vst but youre going to need an awful lot more talent..
Old 22nd April 2018
  #379
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I use a lot of vintage analog
I repair vintage synths
I like the sound of the modern analog synths, I have a prophet 08 that is raspy and precise like I would image a modern circuit to be.

I love the vintage vibe but the modern synths are a new era and making them more artificially vintage would be a shame.

What about folks wanting Audio upgrades on their vintage synths .......
Old 22nd April 2018
  #380
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You can't argue that analog doesn't sound better than digital, its scientific fact.

Maybe you can argue that the new analog synths are better than the old ones and I might agree with you depending on the synth. But don't even talk about digital, just dismiss it like an obnoxious school child.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
...and you’re certain that you’d hear that difference in a mix once everything is EQd, Compressed, FXd and Mastered? You’d bet your reputation and all your belongings on that?
I'd feel a bit guilty taking all your stuff, but I'd get over it.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #382
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“Why Don't New VCOs Sound as Good as Old VCOs?
I don't want to debate *if* they do. That much is obvious. Every non musician I have over to my house I do a little test with. Play a key on a new VCO synth (P6, OB6, "D" etc). Then play a key on a classic.

There's never any contest. Jaws drop. Eyes widen. Goosebumps appear. Panties drop, sometimes.

The question is why. Why do old VCOs sound so much better that even to amateurs it's never any contest? Or even old DCOs? The DeepMind has no emotional effect on people whatsoever. The Juno makes them swoon. Etcetera.”


I’m sorry, but this is what the OP argued.

I’ve lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn for 20 years and have been to hundreds of shows/gigs/events with old and new analog synths, samplers, laptops with software, guitars .... I also do sound out here for a living and have worked with hundreds of musicians using all sorts of gear.

It’s all different. That’s the overarching generalization: it’s different.

I’ve seen performers kill it with a laptop and a banker goober with $25k in vintage analog empty the room.

Old synths can sound different. Different from each other. Different from guitars. Different with each peformer.

Always “better”?

Is Rembrandt always better than DeKooning? Vermeer always better than Pollock?

Do the Dutch hues drop more panties than video installations?

Last edited by Deleted User; 22nd April 2018 at 01:05 PM..
Old 22nd April 2018
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post

i know from previous form that you'll no doubt want a 45 post exchange with multi quotes from 2010 onwards so do your bit and enjoy it

Your ability to predict the future is spookily accurate, Id be very grateful indeed if you could be kind enough to PM me 6 numbers for this weeks lottery....thanks in advance.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
You can't argue that analog doesn't sound better than digital, its scientific fact.


Science has obviously changed since I was in school.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Trolled again by neonrider. You guys will never learn will you?

I gotta give him credit. He drops the highest quality sh1t bombs I have ever read. Turns this place into a friggin meme.
Totally. I've read through most of the pages here (because I'm trying to avoid doing things I should be doing on a rainy Sunday) and this is the only post that delivers 100% accuracy
Hats off to exemplary trolling by the OP, but it's like a room full of over-wound clockwork toys - set one off and.....you get 13 pages.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
I’m sorry, but this is what the OP argued.
So what? The only interesting point here is why old synths generally, in certain ways sound different than new, which is something many agree is the case. Whether the OP thinks no synth after 1985 sound good at all or not is really not the point. Maybe he thinks the earth is flat too. Why does it matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
I’ve seen performers kill it with a laptop and a banker goober with $25k in vintage analog empty the room.
Good for you. I would think most of us have had similar experiences. It still adds absolutely nothing to the point of the discussion, unless the point of the discussion is to figure out how misguided neonrider is, instead of trying to answer his perfectly legitimate question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
Old synths can sound different. Different from each other. Different from guitars. Different with each peformer.
No ****. The point was that most new VCO based synths seem to differ from old by lacking something that many old VCOs have in common, and why that is the case. Whether neonrider thinks this goes for all new vs old synths or not is really not the point.

How many synths from the 70's and 80's have a typical modern sound? Or is it no such thing because everything sounds different?

Someone needs to explain why it's so important to crusade neonriders supposedly flawed thinking and to make sure his one actual question is kept unanwered. If you like new synths then use them and be happy. I couldn't care less about what other people think about me being happy using my modern sounding synths and neither should you. Grow up
Old 22nd April 2018
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
You can't argue that analog doesn't sound better than digital, its scientific fact.

Maybe you can argue that the new analog synths are better than the old ones and I might agree with you depending on the synth. But don't even talk about digital, just dismiss it like an obnoxious school child.
Yes you can argue it until the cows come home (as we have been) because, it is NOT scientific fact; what "sounds better" is subjective.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBA View Post
So what? The only interesting point here is why old synths generally, in certain ways sound different than new, which is something many agree is the case. Whether the OP thinks no synth after 1985 sound good at all or not is really not the point. Maybe he thinks the earth is flat too. Why does it matter?



Good for you. I would think most of us have had similar experiences. It still adds absolutely nothing to the point of the discussion, unless the point of the discussion is to figure out how misguided neonrider is, instead of trying to answer his perfectly legitimate question.



No ****. The point was that most new VCO based synths seem to differ from old by lacking something that many old VCOs have in common, and why that is the case. Whether neonrider thinks this goes for all new vs old synths or not is really not the point.

How many synths from the 70's and 80's have a typical modern sound? Or is it no such thing because everything sounds different?

Someone needs to explain why it's so important to crusade neonriders supposedly flawed thinking and to make sure his one actual question is kept unanwered. If you like new synths then use them and be happy. I couldn't care less about what other people think about me being happy using my modern sounding synths and neither should you. Grow up
Quite prickly in the morning, huh? Haha

Sir,

It only matters inasmuch as his premise was being denied throughout thread.

It matters because if a flat Earther were postulating tinfoil hat theories on a serious astrophysics site, the claims would undergo the scrutiny of “peer review”, which is a guiding epistemological principle. If your claims can’t bear scrutiny and your only refutation/defense is censoring and ridiculing, then the argument fails to meet even the minimum standard warranting discussion. No? Yes.

It does add: if we are arguing from anecdotes.

Again, the idea that all old synths are a measurable class that have undergone a Popperian Falsifiability has not been proven.

The OP asked “because the moon is made of the best tasting cheese (and everyone knows it) why does it taste better?”

One might ask: do all analog synths sound different from new synths as a class of measurable phenomena? Can we create a useful definition of this “old synth” that is measurable and reproduce the results again and again.

If they are a class and we do find that they have a measurable definition, why might they sound different? (Better is an issue of aesthetics not hard science).

So, a study would have a dependent and independent variable(s) and one would control for various aspects to measure the veracity of any claim and one should expect peer review, not cry babies whingeing under the critical eye.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post


Fixed that for you.

When you become so desperate you have to adjust other people's quotes to reflect your opinion, you've lost the argument.

As an aside, reworking and rewriting quotes is taboo around here, and it's especially weird given this comment of yours:

Quote:
Do you even know what you're trying to argue anymore?
More like "who" I'm trying to argue with ... myself apparently.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
Quite prickly in the morning, huh? Haha

Sir,

It only matters inasmuch as his premise was being denied throughout thread.

It matters because if a flat Earther were postulating tinfoil hat theories on a serious astrophysics site, the claims would undergo the scrutiny of “peer review”, which is a guiding epistemological principle. If your claims can’t bear scrutiny and your only refutation/defense is censoring and ridiculing, then the argument fails to meet even the minimum standard warranting discussion. No? Yes.

It does add: if we are arguing from anecdotes.

Again, the idea that all old synths are a measurable class that have undergone a Popperian Falsifiability has not been proven.

The OP asked “because the moon is made of the best tasting cheese (and everyone knows it) why does it taste better?”

One might ask: do all analog synths sound different from new synths as a class of measurable phenomena? Can we create a useful definition of this “old synth” that is measurable and reproduce the results again and again.

If they are a class and we do find that they have a measurable definition, why might they sound different? (Better is an issue of aesthetics not hard science).

So, a study would have a dependent and independent variable(s) and one would control for various aspects to measure the veracity of any claim and one should expect peer review, not cry babies whingeing under the critical eye.
I think you must have mixed me up with a different poster and quoted me by mistake. Your post seems to have very little to do with what I wrote.
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