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Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie) Desktop Synthesizers
Old 12th April 2018
  #151
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Exe2479's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Is there any arp or sequencer in built into the Valkyrie..?
Arpeggiator has buttons on the front, guess no sequencer, but maybe a pattern arp.

https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/up...kyrie-grau.png
Old 12th April 2018
  #152
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I quite like the design. It’s got an industrial / hospital look to it (sans the orange sides). I think if you slapped some wooden end-cheeks on it it’d look really classy.

I’m curious why he hasn’t gone down the route that everyone else goes down, namely offering it on Kickstarter. He’d get guaranteed orders, more money (no distribution or retail cuts) and would even be able to offer it at a cheaper introductory price for the early adopters.

Fundamentally, he needs a website with loads of information, contact details and a “buy” button - where he could sell directly to the consumer. Perhaps he doesn’t want to package and post things himself but he wouldn’t have to. Plenty of mailing companies that will take care of those logistics.

He’s got some good vibes generated now. Time to strike whilst the iron is hot and start taking pre-orders. If he was saying “well below €2k” - I think we can translate that to c. €1699 or so - WITH a distribution deal, direct he could ask €1299 and make more money.

Nothing stopping him getting a distributor at a later date with a higher price, either.
Old 12th April 2018
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
Would it be fair to say an FPGA is akin to a modular synth, you can pick and arrange/rearrange the blocks the way you need them, while other processors are like fixed path synths, everything is set in stone, work within that?

Or is this too misleading or useless a comparison?
An FPGA is more like a digital version of an electronics breadboard that comes with a huge set of built-in blocks that can vary from very simple stuff like look-up tables and adders all the way to complete CPU cores. So a better comparison might be to having a bunch of electronic components that you can use to build whatever you want, not just a processor.
Old 12th April 2018
  #154
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Hate the sound
Old 12th April 2018
  #155
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Coorec's Avatar
Due to a lack of time i couldnt watch all the videos, yet. Was 19'' rackability mentioned somewhere?
Old 12th April 2018
  #156
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It's always nice to have choice, but to me this sounds like a best of the worst of eighties sounds.

If there was a sound on a song in the eighties that I hated, I think I just heard it in the opening few mins of that video.

However, in terms of features, possible price, and tech you can't fault it! And it's great to see such ambitious machines being produced.
Old 12th April 2018
  #157
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Due to a lack of time i couldnt watch all the videos, yet. Was 19'' rackability mentioned somewhere?
There is a rack version and keyboard version planned. It's on the infopage on their soundcloud page.
Old 12th April 2018
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
Those sources don't confirm anything. Markus Fuller is the one that kind of spread the idea that ESC2s were FPGAs, but he never cited a source, or explained how he got the idea, or how he figured that out, and even said this in the comments of one of his videos:
I keep calling the ESC2 chip an FPGA (field programmable gate array) though there is now the possibility that it is actually a DSP chip. A digital signal processor which is a specialized microprocessor (or a SIP block), with its architecture optimized for digital signal processing. If Anyone at Roland could give us a clue to just what chip this and what it can achieve - it would be greatly appreciated.
He doesn't know, and hard for him to do so because those are Roland custom chips for which information isn't public.

(Your other Japanese source is no better)

To know what these really are you'd need an expert/trustworthy source from within Roland. Roland loves to throw tech words, they'd let us know if it mattered, and what they've hyped the ESC2 as is "DSP". (It's worth noting that they've been using these since 2011 but the FPGA word didn't show up until some time after AIRA)

I never could quite figure out were the AIRA = FPGA connection started, I think Nick Batt, anyway.
Yeah Roland marketing ..Like you, I take it with a grain of salt , and try to see trough the marketing bubble and their genius way of renaming old tech .
I have an integra and opened it mulitple times , all I can say is that there's an 'esc2 ' chip inside ..which roland claims to be an fpga .
Maybe someone who' more tech savy can shed some more light on this .
Old 12th April 2018
  #159
interesting development. few things that strike me right off the bat,,

first the inevitable comparison to Virus: for classic VA tones, it sounds quite a lot like a TI yet with relaxed, extended top end due to increased resolution, oversampling etc. no inherent darkness to cover up garbage up there. nice bright pads without the pixelatization/harshness. however, with it is gone some of the trademark edginess and character of TI.

there is no granular, formant and i wonder about wavetable synthesis? mentioning bunch of "wavetables", i suspect he just meant singlecycle waves, not wavetable synthesis per se, where you can scan/morph thru them via modulation (ppg/waldorf/ti style). anyone knows for sure?


soundwise two elements i didnt like: filter/resonance. at times very high resolution (like the HPF) but the lowpass and high resonance examples sounded lackluster and weak. not hearing ladder or the classic edgier virus filtering.

and second, there's an everpresent mid forward thing on all sounds/reverbs, and i don't mean like light warm characteristic in the low mid range, but as if somebody outright cranked 0.5kHz range on a equalizer. on some tones this turns to mush and uninteligibility.


and this ten oscillators business is little confusing; does the designer mean full ten individual oscillators, as in, you can access individual controls for each: change wavetable, pitch, pwm, reach it within modulation matrix modulate differently etc,,

or, are these more like two hefty 5osc clusters that structurally and from programming/matrixmod pov behave like two single oscillators later in the chain? that is what that audio graph path implies, the panel, and the way he talked about layering n stuff. can anyone shed some light?

Last edited by clusterchord; 12th April 2018 at 06:34 PM..
Old 12th April 2018
  #160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
Would it be fair to say an FPGA is akin to a modular synth, you can pick and arrange/rearrange the blocks the way you need them, while other processors are like fixed path synths, everything is set in stone, work within that?

Or is this too misleading or useless a comparison?
Kind of, but the "modules" we're talking about here are generally low-level math or logic functions. I'm not familiar enough with DSP to know if, for instance, one can program a bunch of Fast Fourier Transforms into the logic of the chip (I assume that's possible, as IIRC chips like SHARCs have banks of FFT circuits). But you could program in a number of dedicated circuits to perform the math necessary for FFTs. Basically, from a programming perspective, the difference is something like:

traditional CPU:
1.) Compile code for some function from some language into machine language
2.) Store machine language code someplace
3.) Then, when you need to run it, load code and data onto CPU chip by sending code and data through the chip's "pipeline"

FPGA:
1.) Write description of physical circuit that computes function
2.) Load description onto chip, which then reconfigures itself so the "circuits" you asked for are now effectively on the silicon
3.) Then, when you need to run it, you send data to the address where the "circuit" lives, and it pops out the other end in its desired form.

So, to grossly oversimplify (and mangle), say computer code A needs to run 10 XORs, 10 ANDs, 6 ADDs, and a few memory address lookups. A traditional CPU may have physical "gates" (in the form of transistors) designed to carry out those operations. Now, let's say computer code B needs 5,000 ANDs and 10 XORs, but the CPU you're programming for has 1,000 ANDs and 40 XORs -- Code A will run in one chunk, but code B will need to run in five "chunks" sequentially in order to complete. With an FPGA, you may have 10,000 "Look Up Tables" (LUTs) that can be configured to be ANDs, or XORs, or NOTs, or any variation thereof. You can now "program" the chip to have 5,000 ANDs and 40 XORs, exactly as required by your code, so your operation now executes all at once.

Also, I mentioned earlier a CPU "pipeline". Again, to grossly oversimplify, usually a traditional CPU has a handful of these "pipelines" available to run in parallel (say 4 or 8 or 16), but can run them very fast (4 GHZ, for instance). An FPGA can be configured to have as many "pipelines" as you need, so long as they fit on the chip, thus even though it runs slower (400 MHZ, for instance), you can get more "stuff" done in one go than with the traditional CPU. Any actual speed-up though will generally require a fairly high degree of "parallelism", since you may need 10x parallel pipelines (40 on the FPGA instead of 4 on the traditional CPU) at least to get the same performance. So, if we're talking about our theoretical 10,000 LUT FPGA, you can do better than the CPU if, for instance, your logic "pipeline" only needs 10 LUTs and you can process 1,000 of them in parallel.

A traditional DSP chip is sort of a compromise -- there are a fixed number of, say, FFT circuits where you put your data in at address A and the FFT result pops out the other end. But you can't change the total number of FFT circuits.

So in some senses, yes, this is kind of like a "modular" computer. That then runs code to make it into a synth. But I don't think the actual "architecture" of the synth itself is implemented directly on the chip in whole. I presume that with FPGA synths, what they usually do is create a bunch of DSP functions on the chip, then combine those in code to do all the things that need to happen between a key down message and sound coming out of the outputs.
Old 12th April 2018
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
An FPGA is more like a digital version of an electronics breadboard that comes with a huge set of built-in blocks that can vary from very simple stuff like look-up tables and adders all the way to complete CPU cores. So a better comparison might be to having a bunch of electronic components that you can use to build whatever you want, not just a processor.
Ok, that's a better image. Thanks.
Old 12th April 2018
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
Yeah Roland marketing ..Like you, I take it with a grain of salt , and try to see trough the marketing bubble and their genius way of renaming old tech .
I have an integra and opened it mulitple times , all I can say is that there's an 'esc2 ' chip inside ..which roland claims to be an fpga .
Maybe someone who' more tech savy can shed some more light on this .
"which roland claims to be an fpga" all I'm saying is that they haven't made that claim, anyway
Old 12th April 2018
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poserp View Post
Sure, I think it's fine to be skeptical. Just because it's _theoretically_ possible doesn't mean it's feasible, as the silence from Fabulous Silicon about the Paradigm may demonstrate (they showed at NAMM 2017, can't find any more info online or anything past the end of January of that year).
Paradigm guy have been around for some time. The thing he demoed im told was a design concept
and was at that point not working.

Quote:
For some odd reason the Futuresonus Parva comes up pretty high in google searches for "FPAA Synth", I can't find any info though that would indicate us uses any FPAA or FPAA-like tech. So, I am in fact remembering incorrectly that there are a couple of hardware synths coming out that use FPAAs -- the only one demoed is the Paradigm, and that may or may not be a dead project.
Besides you may have noticed Google these days manipulate searches to fit their advertisers so much to the extent it becomes close to unusable, whenever i trie to do searchers for massacre videos of ISIS i know is there because i have seen them before nowdays i get only ISIS flower shop ads!

How odd in deed, since i'm a gardener by profession and seeks for exotic seeds all day long on GURGLE
Maybe i should seek for porno and then get exotic flowers?

Gurgling Furniture Songus Paria i get only one hit, their KickStarter page in these pages there is not one single word saying FPAA, to the contrary it describes a traditional semi discrete OTA design and a ATxmega64A1U MCU per voice board. If he had used FPAA im sure he would have used that in his marketing.

Quote:
However, that doesn't mean people just stop trying, or that it's a "dead" tech. Rather, the time might not be right for it. Nevertheless, I think it's a cool concept and the time will come when it's viable.
Absolutely, your correct people should try but if a dead end is in sight they should stop beaten a dead horse!

However i dont argue with you its not a interesting concept but remember
the FPAA "lucid dream" has been around since at least 1998 with very little progress from original implementation, if something is to be successful in the semiconductor industry it needs many supporters and loads of capital investment FPAA has neither as far i can see.

Future Sonus is a good show off on how you can design a proper analog synth just using old school trad tech that cost very little to make while sounding decently......Just saying.
Old 12th April 2018
  #164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Due to a lack of time i couldnt watch all the videos, yet. Was 19'' rackability mentioned somewhere?
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
There is a rack version and keyboard version planned. It's on the infopage on their soundcloud page.
I thought at least one of the interviews mentioned that the unit was the right width and could have rack ears attached, but I'm not sure how that squares with the location of the outputs on the back. The most pleasant surprise was the discussion that it's designed as an "audio platform" where the front panel can be slid out and replaced with something else to reuse the audio and MIDI connections, so perhaps there's a clue there about how it could be reconfigured as a rack?
Old 12th April 2018
  #165
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
I thought at least one of the interviews mentioned that the unit was the right width and could have rack ears attached, but I'm not sure how that squares with the location of the outputs on the back. The most pleasant surprise was the discussion that it's designed as an "audio platform" where the front panel can be slid out and replaced with something else to reuse the audio and MIDI connections, so perhaps there's a clue there about how it could be reconfigured as a rack?
The encosure is made so that you can slide out the main synth from it. The audio, midi, USB and power is part of the enclosure. So I would guess the rack version would be a different enclosure with it's own set of ports angled for use in a rack and rack ears.
Old 12th April 2018
  #166
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

&t=33s
Old 12th April 2018
  #167
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Best sounds so far.
Old 12th April 2018
  #168
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So let me get this straight, I'm getting old LOL

This looks a bit and sounds like a Virus TI2 but has NO Total Integration? If so it's just a step back and you get charged a fair bit or money....I fail to see what the attraction is here.
I mean, IF they had made it Total Integration and it would work properly with USB3 or Thunderbolt - THEN it would be something....

As it stands I can't see it selling that well to be honest.
Old 12th April 2018
  #169
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It's not a Virus replacement so why would they have TI?

The attaction here is guaranteed polyphony and higher definition sound generation than the one Virus has. USB3/TB absolutely unnecessary for streaming 8 stereo channels of 96k/24bit data.
Old 12th April 2018
  #170
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I bet he's regretting those knobs now!
Old 12th April 2018
  #171
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We played with Valkyrie for roughly 15 minutes on the Musikmesse and we are very excited about the product. Being able to play it yourself, and do some quick patching, instantly made us convinced this synth deserves all the attention it can get. Thinking it’s “just another VA synth that can do some typical EDM sounds” is far from the truth in our opinion. But we understand some people have some healthy doses of scepticism if all you have is some specs and a few demo’s to rely on.

It does lush and evolving pads and strings, lovely plucks (with great attack) and mellow keys with ease. But it doesn’t stop there, it can do convincing classic synth basses and leads that instantly remind me of the 80’s, but it can also sound very modern, perfect for the current popular music styles, not limited to EDM.

Although there is absolutely some menu diving necessary during sound design, we believe it’s very intuitive, no complaints at all.

We also had a good chat with Manuel and he is such a humble guy and talked about Valkyrie with so much passion. We can only wish for him and the product that this will become a big seller! It should!
Old 12th April 2018
  #172
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
"which roland claims to be an fpga" all I'm saying is that they haven't made that claim, anyway
True , Roland never said it was an fpga .
DAmn internet echo chamber
Old 12th April 2018
  #173
Gear Nut
 

I love it. Don't understand the haters one bit. The architecture is a work of genius, the feature set well-thought through (undoubtedly more to come there too)... It is always difficult when something like this ends up doing all it's growing up with the world watching, but Valkyrie seems a lot more mature than a lot of pre-production trade show unveilings we've seen down the years.

Manuel appears to have created a platform that can be tweaked and sculpted to absolute perfection - and I think with the right support he will, because everything he has achieved so far fully deserves it. Of course there are a couple of additions I'd really like to see, I'm sure everyone has their opinions there, but I'm happy to wait and I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised.

I foresee the lesson here will be to never ever judge an absolute colossus of a synth by the first few patches you hear.
Old 13th April 2018
  #174
A lot of good stuff from the various review vids:

1.) Real-world units on parameters!

2.) Cool UI implementation, I like how screen "slides" up and down. Small thing, but makes it "feel" better IMO.

3.) Really far along in the process, cool to see someone hold their fire until they're ready.

4.) I like that he's thinking outside the trance; the "piano" sound was neat (IMO there should be more straight-up attempts to synthesize real instruments).

5.) Several buttons cause at least one of the FPGAs to re-configure on-the-fly. Cool.

6.) He says he actually did program components for each "voice" on the chip(s). So, instead of stringing hardware DSP together via code, the whole algorithm is on the chip itself for, say, a filter. I suspect the arch is there are FPGAs for different parts of the synth -- one or more for oscillators, one or more for filters, and so on. Which is cool, because that'd mean he's using the time when you press the button, perhaps, to reprogram the "filter" FPGAs from lowpass to bandpass, and etc. I like!

This is some serious engineering, really great stuff IMO. Hats off, and I hope he sells tons of these.
Old 13th April 2018
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's not a Virus replacement so why would they have TI?

The attaction here is guaranteed polyphony and higher definition sound generation than the one Virus has. USB3/TB absolutely unnecessary for streaming 8 stereo channels of 96k/24bit data.

To me it sounds like a Virus, hence it feels to me as a replacement option - maybe not the intention of the manufacturer but that is how I see this synth.
Well, judging by the mess the Virus turned out to be with even one channel via USB I won't be holding my breath that 8 stereo channels of higher quality are not going to give problems on this synth.
Old 13th April 2018
  #176
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Compressor's Avatar
I think it sounds amazing! The only thing I don't like is the design of it, especially because it is quite bulky but then doesn't use of the whole area on top of the synth. I hope Manuel thinks about changing the design, but if he does not, I guess I'd buy it anyways...
Old 13th April 2018
  #177
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Best demo so far.



Really loving the clarity of sound it has a brightness and openness that I like. I also like that it has 4096 wave tables

This thing packs a huge punch with the effects +128 voice, 8 part multi-timbral, 10 oscillators per voice, 32x oversampled with 96kHz output.

Seems like a dream synth to me, hope the rack happens will wait for it.
Old 13th April 2018
  #178
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Morley View Post
Well, judging by the mess the Virus turned out to be with even one channel via USB I won't be holding my breath that 8 stereo channels of higher quality are not going to give problems on this synth.
That's because Virus doesn't have USB2, it is much slower. USB2 has no problems streaming 16 channels of 96k, no sweat. RME's audio interfaces prove this. Just because Access fugged up doesn't mean another manufacturer will.
Old 13th April 2018
  #179
Deleted 46dc28f
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That Virus sandwich form factor, though.
Old 13th April 2018
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Best demo so far.



Really loving the clarity of sound it has a brightness and openness that I like. I also like that it has 4096 wave tables

This thing packs a huge punch with the effects +128 voice, 8 part multi-timbral, 10 oscillators per voice, 32x oversampled with 96kHz output.

Seems like a dream synth to me, hope the rack happens will wait for it.
Rack and Keyboard versions are already in the making!
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