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Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie) Desktop Synthesizers
Old 11th April 2018
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solapse View Post
Hah wow I didn't see that before, I was not excited at all by the Peak Demo's so never read anything about it.

The future is here, again.
Old 11th April 2018
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobule View Post
ok after seeing the interview and hearing it uses fpga's i am officially interested, this is fantastic technology and i have been waiting to see some audio applications, i was imagining them being used in guitar pedals that you could reprogram but this is far more exciting!


The whole aira range ,except for the re-programming

Last edited by gentleclockdivid; 11th April 2018 at 04:58 PM..
Old 11th April 2018
  #123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
The whole aira range
Recent Kurzweils, too. Hopefully this is just the start of a new wave of designs.
Old 11th April 2018
  #124
Gear Nut
 

Old 11th April 2018
  #125
Old 11th April 2018
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
The whole aira range ,
was that ever confirmed?
Old 11th April 2018
  #127
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bobule's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Recent Kurzweils, too. Hopefully this is just the start of a new wave of designs.
another reason begging me to upgrade from pc3 to forte
Old 11th April 2018
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan2000 View Post
l o l indeed, you clever cheeky devil
I was going to wait until they announced a price and maybe hear a few more demos but you're probably right, they should completely redesign the UI, swap out the encoders, provide custom on-demand color choices, have it process external audio and make it a complete workstation.

probably no problem to do a few weeks before a major trade show where he said he's trying to find distributors.
Unfortunately he says "feature complete" in the sonic video.. quite lots of tech information there as well.
Nice piano sound. Quite well toughout design. Nick Batty is doing some serious mocking when asking for
a 128 voice unison demo! Selling price he says "well under" 2000euro.

Since its a FPGA based audio platform i would like to have seen an "sample replay expansion"
like reduction of voices or oscs whatever for enabling external memory interface.

I wish him best of success with it.

Old 11th April 2018
  #129
Gear Head
 
ISH_2016's Avatar
This sounds good and looks well-built. If it comes at around 1600 Euro or so, it will be much ahead of available competing products and would make for a fantastic workhorse synth, with all the multi-timbrality. Its a bit of a shame to see all the skepticism and negativity, but we have been bull****ed too much. In an time of fancy releases for over-hyped, sub-par products, this man's no-nonsense approach is commendable.
Old 11th April 2018
  #130
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Pictus's Avatar
 


This dark grey mockup looks way better.


The current retro design somehow reminds me of a VW Wagon, the blue looks better.


Maybe a Woodstock version...
Old 11th April 2018
  #131
...I was wondering what that blue pic reminded me of, this is still one of my favorite control layouts for an all-in-one box:
Attached Thumbnails
Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie)-xl7.jpg  
Old 11th April 2018
  #132
Gear Nut
Seems you're listening to this Manuel! Few bits of feedback then from the SonicState video...
  • Keep the vertical footprint low - there's an image here that shows that the tops and bottoms are generally just visual. Most of us want as much desktop space as possible. Either go to a rack standard or keep it as small as possible. I love the customisation ideas but reality is important
  • Consider a decent power supply that isn't horrible for live use. Doesn't affect me but really upsets a lot of people. If you're going internal for power supply, please don't use cheap capacitors as this really ruins the life of digital synths at 5+ years of use. Oh, and the 10w internal power? Sounds good if it has to run off external power, keep it to a normal value than can easily be replaced if it goes pop
  • I'd suggest on a mass produced case style to keep the costs down. A load of additional colours should be just that, additional and a nice value add for yourself
  • Optional wood ends. Even optional aluminium ends. Decent supply of both and go for something cheaper for general use.
  • Don't skimp on pots. Less menu diving = more pots = better and longer life required. As a start-up you want to raise the price slightly by having good front end components and in turn reduce returns rate.
  • Does the ladder filter reduce in volume when res is high? If it's reducing then awesome from an accuracy perspective but tbh, it's good to have this as a toggleable behaviour in digital.
  • Rear audio connectors look quality, kudos.
  • Have you integrated an OLED screensaver? I.e. power-off to save the screen?
  • Don't over do too many new options via yourself or a tiny team (new FX options that you mentioned) - make some money and pay back the mortgage first! As a prospective customer, I'd rather you're around to fix bugs and support issues for year to come than stretch on new features. It's hard to deliver mass market
  • Editor is awesome. Make sure it can do GUI scaling out of the box and with no weird scaling aliasing. Don't know the ROLI JUCE stuff enough to know the answer
  • Get a waiting list going with a newsletter!
Old 11th April 2018
  #133
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Coorec's Avatar
Such an excellent and convincing demo.

Might have me lured into the synth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solapse View Post
Old 11th April 2018
  #134
can someone explain what is means to be 'implemented in hardware' when using an FPGA? Isnt the fixed programmable gate array a digital chip...how is that implemented in hardware...
Old 11th April 2018
  #135
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
can someone explain what is means to be 'implemented in hardware' when using an FPGA? Isnt the fixed programmable gate array a digital chip...how is that implemented in hardware...
FPGA = Field-Programmable Gate Array. So, the idea is you set up all the little bits of a chip (logic gates, adders, and a whole bunch of other things that I don't understand) using code to perform a specific set of functions. A general-purpose chip has, for example, a fixed number of transistors (probably butchering here, but I believe I have the concept right) implementing AND gates. Same goes for all the other kinds of logic gates and other things you put on a chip for computing.

In this case, the chip can be configured to have all the bits you need, and you can change how it's wired via code. So, your code isn't just running against a general-purpose chip, rather it can use exactly the gates and other physical chip features that will be of benefit to your application.

For instance, a SHARC DSP has a huge array of chip bits specifically designed for DSP. However, maybe for audio DSP specifically you don't need some of those features (IIRC the DSP a SHARC is designed to do extends into a a whole slew of applications outside of audio). So, with an FPGA you can "program" the chip itself for a very specific purpose, _then_ write computer code that works on that physical chip configuration.

Thus when they say "implemented in hardware", what they mean is their DSP is optimized down to the "silicon" level for the synth by using FPGAs. Kurzweil does this by minting their own silicon (MARA, CLARA, etc) _and_ in the Forte this is deployed alongside FPGA stuff.

Another fun technology is FPAA -- Field Programmable Analog Array -- and IIRC there are several hardware analog synths that are coming out which use this. In this case, you write code that configures the chip into different physical arrangements of transistors, resistors, capacitors, etc so you can literally implement circuits by writing code instead of wiring together components on a circuit board. Conjuring an analog synth = get FPAA, configure it with code, done (mostly, probably need to do high volt/amp things like op-amps off-chip, and this is probably an over-simplification, but AFAIK that's basically how it works).

FPGA + FPAA = the future IMO, and/or combining that with other purpose-built silicon.
Old 11th April 2018
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
can someone explain what is means to be 'implemented in hardware' when using an FPGA? Isnt the fixed programmable gate array a digital chip...how is that implemented in hardware...
A Field Programmable Gate Array contains a set of logic blocks that can be connected together on the fly in a configuration you define, as opposed to a conventional CPU where the layout is fixed. So it allows you to define the algorithm to create, say, an oscillator in hardware terms rather than as a series of instructions to a general purpose processor.

I'm somewhat amused by the fact the designer says the filter is a model of the Moog ladder in the SonicState video, while the synth is producing some decidedly Oberheim-ish sounds in the Synth Anatomy video. Either way, it sounds really good to my ears and I'm very happy to see a return to something more than two part multi-timbrality.
Old 11th April 2018
  #137
Deleted ca98332
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wow, I want to hug this guy, definitely picking up a Valkyrie on launch !!

thank you for making this synth!
Old 12th April 2018
  #138
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

I'm also very interested. Anyone know if the current unit can be racked?
Old 12th April 2018
  #139
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Klonfocius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by poserp View Post
Another fun technology is FPAA -- Field Programmable Analog Array -- and IIRC there are several hardware analog synths that are coming out which use this. In this case, you write code that configures the chip into different physical arrangements of transistors, resistors, capacitors, etc so you can literally implement circuits by writing code instead of wiring together components on a circuit board. Conjuring an analog synth = get FPAA, configure it with code, done (mostly, probably need to do high volt/amp things like op-amps off-chip, and this is probably an over-simplification, but AFAIK that's basically how it works).

FPGA + FPAA = the future IMO, and/or combining that with other purpose-built silicon.
Im skeptical by reasoning; if things was that simple everyone would do it....

So havent seen much progress (in "decades" basically) for basic FPAA's tech. Please name some chip makers and some OEM's who is actually going to deliver analog poly with these FPAA's?(No, Maxim and Cypress is no FPAA's) Only those who truly makes "time continuous" FPAA chips.

I mean , Anadigm appnotes is from 2003 and provides zero performance data of a particular appnote , kinda coold feet!

And all the elephants Motorola etc left the market decades ago with very few small odd companies left with lots of electrical issues and expensive chips, especially when several companies are up and doing revivals of old CEM/SSM chips thats cost very little and people swim in oldschool nostalgia like UBXA with no triangle wave!......
Old 12th April 2018
  #140
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobule View Post
was that ever confirmed?
Confirmed ,confirmed ....it's just a matter of opening up your gear and have a look ...ah wait .;someone already did it for you
the roland jupiter 80 , integra 7 used first gen .fpga chips ' esc2' chip ( sns engine )
シンセサイザー研究室



So does the jdxa and jdxi ( for the sns engine ).and the aira range for it's acb modelling
The system 8 uses the latest ones
Old 12th April 2018
  #141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonfocius View Post
Im skeptical by reasoning; if things was that simple everyone would do it....

So havent seen much progress (in "decades" basically) for basic FPAA's tech. Please name some chip makers and some OEM's who is actually going to deliver analog poly with these FPAA's?(No, Maxim and Cypress is no FPAA's) Only those who truly makes "time continuous" FPAA chips.

I mean , Anadigm appnotes is from 2003 and provides zero performance data of a particular appnote , kinda coold feet!

And all the elephants Motorola etc left the market decades ago with very few small odd companies left with lots of electrical issues and expensive chips, especially when several companies are up and doing revivals of old CEM/SSM chips thats cost very little and people swim in oldschool nostalgia like UBXA with no triangle wave!......
Sure, I think it's fine to be skeptical. Just because it's _theoretically_ possible doesn't mean it's feasible, as the silence from Fabulous Silicon about the Paradigm may demonstrate (they showed at NAMM 2017, can't find any more info online or anything past the end of January of that year). For some odd reason the Futuresonus Parva comes up pretty high in google searches for "FPAA Synth", I can't find any info though that would indicate us uses any FPAA or FPAA-like tech. So, I am in fact remembering incorrectly that there are a couple of hardware synths coming out that use FPAAs -- the only one demoed is the Paradigm, and that may or may not be a dead project.

However, that doesn't mean people just stop trying, or that it's a "dead" tech. Rather, the time might not be right for it. Nevertheless, I think it's a cool concept and the time will come when it's viable.
Old 12th April 2018
  #142
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midiquestions's Avatar
I've picked up a lot of different monotimbral synths over the last decade, but this thing is making me very tempted to go back into all-in-one mode. I haven't bought a synth new in a very long time, but this might be worth saving up for.
Old 12th April 2018
  #143
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M32 View Post
actually, i was thinking of synths like Z3TA+ which were actually sounding very good, and super flexible.
I'd still use it for specific purposes, and it was great to have so many envelopes, lfo and modulation options.
I was fully in the software camp back then, believing the soundgap was closing rapidly and the added flexibility and range of VST synths would make them so much better than analogue synths. I still do.

Is it strange i find it a bit dissapointing when a dedicated hardware box is easily outperformed by any of the decent ITB synths these days?

Again, it's a relative thing, and with sufficient multitimbrality and a low enough price i would definitely consider buying this as a sort of UAD-synth-box-system, like the virus has been in a way for years.
Back in the very 00's I had a Creamware Pulsar card and loved that thing but I wonder if it would still hold up now and how it sounds after all these years. I think a lot of this stuff is purely psychological, some is obvious no doubt but look at things like Virus and even some of the early Reason rack extensions like Subtractor, they can still stand up even today.
Old 12th April 2018
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
Confirmed ,confirmed ....it's just a matter of opening up your gear and have a look ...ah wait .;someone already did it for you
the roland jupiter 80 , integra 7 used first gen .fpga chips ' esc2' chip ( sns engine )
シンセサイザー研究室



So does the jdxa and jdxi ( for the sns engine ).and the aira range for it's acb modelling
The system 8 uses the latest ones
Those sources don't confirm anything. Markus Fuller is the one that kind of spread the idea that ESC2s were FPGAs, but he never cited a source, or explained how he got the idea, or how he figured that out, and even said this in the comments of one of his videos:
I keep calling the ESC2 chip an FPGA (field programmable gate array) though there is now the possibility that it is actually a DSP chip. A digital signal processor which is a specialized microprocessor (or a SIP block), with its architecture optimized for digital signal processing. If Anyone at Roland could give us a clue to just what chip this and what it can achieve - it would be greatly appreciated.
He doesn't know, and hard for him to do so because those are Roland custom chips for which information isn't public.

(Your other Japanese source is no better)

To know what these really are you'd need an expert/trustworthy source from within Roland. Roland loves to throw tech words, they'd let us know if it mattered, and what they've hyped the ESC2 as is "DSP". (It's worth noting that they've been using these since 2011 but the FPGA word didn't show up until some time after AIRA)

I never could quite figure out were the AIRA = FPGA connection started, I think Nick Batt, anyway.
Old 12th April 2018
  #145
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Is there any arp or sequencer in built into the Valkyrie..?
Old 12th April 2018
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poserp View Post
FPGA = Field-Programmable Gate Array. So, the idea is you set up all the little bits of a chip (logic gates, adders, and a whole bunch of other things that I don't understand) using code to perform a specific set of functions. A general-purpose chip has, for example, a fixed number of transistors (probably butchering here, but I believe I have the concept right) implementing AND gates. Same goes for all the other kinds of logic gates and other things you put on a chip for computing.

In this case, the chip can be configured to have all the bits you need, and you can change how it's wired via code. So, your code isn't just running against a general-purpose chip, rather it can use exactly the gates and other physical chip features that will be of benefit to your application.
[...]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
A Field Programmable Gate Array contains a set of logic blocks that can be connected together on the fly in a configuration you define, as opposed to a conventional CPU where the layout is fixed. So it allows you to define the algorithm to create, say, an oscillator in hardware terms rather than as a series of instructions to a general purpose processor.

[...]
Would it be fair to say an FPGA is akin to a modular synth, you can pick and arrange/rearrange the blocks the way you need them, while other processors are like fixed path synths, everything is set in stone, work within that?

Or is this too misleading or useless a comparison?
Old 12th April 2018
  #147
Lives for gear
On paper this is a beast. I was thinking about getting a secondhand ti2 but this just might be worth the wait.

The only thing atm that puts me off is the awful design. I have to be honest when I say it looks really rather ugly. Get rid of the orange end panels at least. I did see a pic in this theard of it as just a dark grey box without the white panels above and below the layout. This looks beautiful in my eyes.
Old 12th April 2018
  #148
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Well, even with DSP chips you can make modular synths (i.e. Nord Modular), so it's not quite right...
Old 12th April 2018
  #149
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

The pads sound very good on it.

As far as I can tell it is literally a 1 man show with another chap who helped design some sound banks. Think about the work and time and money ey involved. It really is a massive achievement.

Amazing that he has done this. I truly wish him success in this market.
Old 12th April 2018
  #150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog8 View Post
On paper this is a beast. I was thinking about getting a secondhand ti2 but this just might be worth the wait.

The only thing atm that puts me off is the awful design. I have to be honest when I say it looks really rather ugly. Get rid of the orange end panels at least. I did see a pic in this theard of it as just a dark grey box without the white panels above and below the layout. This looks beautiful in my eyes.
He did kind of touch on that in the Nick Batt interview; seemed to stress particularly that the case etc was just a prototype but that the internals are pretty much done, so hopefully they'll get a product designer on board have a much nicer and sleeker looking finished product.

that said, I think I'd still be interested in the ugly one
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