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Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 31st January 2019
  #841
Gear Maniac
 
gjvti's Avatar
 

So looks that on Kyra there is no user patern option for arpeggios... Virus has it... even Blofeld has... Meh...
Old 31st January 2019
  #842
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But the layout isn't bad. Just make it a smaller, more compact unit. Different knobs, and wooden sidepanels.
Old 1st February 2019
  #843
Gear Head
 
latoxine's Avatar
 

Please waldorf don't listen to them, do not touch anything, begin the production ! ;-)
Old 2nd February 2019
  #844
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by latoxine View Post
Please waldorf don't listen to them, do not touch anything, begin the production ! ;-)
Looks fine to me
Old 2nd February 2019
  #845
Lives for gear
Honestly this sounds like a mediocre VST to my ears. At least the Virus and Blofeld had strong character.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #846
Gear Nut
 

Hoping there will be some kit to rack mount the unit as well as a multitude of various modeled filter types.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #847
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by latoxine View Post
Please waldorf don't listen to them, do not touch anything, begin the production ! ;-)

I read on another forum from words past around that Kyra will be released September


At present Kyra is at the prototype stage , I wonder what the finished product will be like ?
Old 2nd February 2019
  #848
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Disclaimer: i dont really know whats going in terms of Kyra at Waldorf.

This being said, i think it is much more likely that preparing a production run is just as time consuming nowadays.

If you dont solder yourself, you have to get a production slot at some company that does it for you.

Once you got that slot, you have to source the required electronic components. Not an easy feat for a small company like Waldorf, told me a Waldorf engineer a few years ago.

Keep in mind that they took this project in only like 7 months ago. There was no already running plan to squeeze it into their portfolio. They might even had to cancel another product (STVC?) to let it happen at all.

Seeing a working prototype in a new design and new format shows how much work was already done in these few months.

I think to imply they dont have their act together, is pretty unfair or may be hint of cluelessness on your part. Who knows.




Good points
Old 2nd February 2019
  #849
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barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclone001 View Post
Even the Quantum demos were horrendous at pre-release and release.
Only now are we starting to hear a few good things from the Quantum.
You would think Waldorf would spend the time to showcase their synths better
Yeah, it's only now i'm hearing some Quantum demo's sound 'special' and like how I desired/want.

The demos i've heard of Kyra from NAMM haven't done much for me.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
I don't think it would be clever to buy a new Virus Ti, definitely not worth the retail price. Why don't you want a second hand one? You can get them really cheap, $500+ for a used Ti2 desktop (just be patient). If you don't want a used Ti then wait for the Kyra, there's a member who has had hands on eith it and they said they were impressed
Where are you seeing these? I still see Virus B going for those prices.

The cheapest Ti2 I'm seeing (just checked the usual sources) was about $1400
Old 2nd February 2019
  #851
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
Where are you seeing these? I still see Virus B going for those prices.

The cheapest Ti2 I'm seeing (just checked the usual sources) was about $1400
Reverb for $500 ($540 shipped but I had to pay VAT and duty in the UK). I've seen a few Ti2 desktops on on FB marketplace for £650 and the keyboards for £800.
If you're patient you can get second hand gear much cheaper than the average selling price and there are also certain months of the year that gear doesn't sell so you can negotiate a better price.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #852
Gear Nut
So the Virus Ti will get cheaper , the only difference is the Ti's engine is a dual DSP and has an editable Arp and Kyra has the Field Programmable Gate Array engine and no programable arp.



How far can the Field Programmable Gate Array go in synthesis design that's more beneficial then DSP?
Old 2nd February 2019
  #853
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EvilDragon's Avatar
FPGA allows for much more oversampling that DSP just cannot have. Kyra's oscillators are calculated at over 5 MHz. Virus' oscillators are heavily bandlimited which attributes to their darker sound.

Also programmable arp is not something that is limited by the use of FPGA. That's easily added in a firmware update, should they decide to do so.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #854
Gear Nut
With FPGA and the future updates , its the future expansion of how much more new programmable updates will bring Kyra , that's what so interesting .
Old 2nd February 2019
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
Reverb for $500 ($540 shipped but I had to pay VAT and duty in the UK). I've seen a few Ti2 desktops on on FB marketplace for £650 and the keyboards for £800.
If you're patient you can get second hand gear much cheaper than the average selling price and there are also certain months of the year that gear doesn't sell so you can negotiate a better price.
Interesting.. I have an Indigo2 (virus C), but would pick up a TI for $500 if I found one.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #856
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
Reverb for $500 ($540 shipped but I had to pay VAT and duty in the UK). I've seen a few Ti2 desktops on on FB marketplace for £650 and the keyboards for £800.
If you're patient you can get second hand gear much cheaper than the average selling price and there are also certain months of the year that gear doesn't sell so you can negotiate a better price.
You got an indcredible deal - Reverb’s price history for the TI2 desktop doesn’t show a sale below $1000 in the past year.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #857
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
Interesting.. I have an Indigo2 (virus C), but would pick up a TI for $500 if I found one.
First Virus I owned was a Ti2 so I don't know what you're missing with a C (plugin is convenient but easy to live without). Much easier to find a bargain if you are after a particular piece of gear and check as many places as you can (I'll check SOS, EBay, Gumtree, FB, classifieds, and, Google with specific terms) frequently. Cheap gear doesn't stay unsold for long.


Quote:
Originally Posted by irwinm View Post
You got an indcredible deal - Reverb’s price history for the TI2 desktop doesn’t show a sale below $1000 in the past year.
Afaict Reverb doesn't show the final sale price when an offer has been accepted, it was definitely within the last 12 months.
I think so too. I had a Ti2 KB years ago and it's an amazing synth but I always wanted the desktop version. Main motivation for buying one was as an fx processor for other synths, figured I may as well spend a bit more and get a synth too.
Just bought a PEK for £1200 and as new FF 802 for £800. I do have a habit of just buying stuff if it's at a good price even if I don't need it. Looking for some reasonably priced PERs now for additional voices
Old 4th February 2019
  #858
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midiquestions's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwinm View Post
You got an indcredible deal - Reverb’s price history for the TI2 desktop doesn’t show a sale below $1000 in the past year.
I have to agree. I've long been tempted by the TI2 but can always find better things to do with my $1200. They just don't go for cheaper very often -- never in my personal experience.
Old 4th February 2019
  #859
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midiquestions View Post
I have to agree. I've long been tempted by the TI2 but can always find better things to do with my $1200. They just don't go for cheaper very often -- never in my personal experience.
Don't know if it's the dame here but I've found FB marketplace and SOS readersads to have underpriced gear more frequently than most other places.
You just have to be vigilant.

There was a thread on gearslutz about a Jupiter 8 selling for £375 not so long ago :p
Old 4 weeks ago
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIFEPASS4 View Post
With FPGA and the future updates , its the future expansion of how much more new programmable updates will bring Kyra , that's what so interesting .
Well the Novation Peak is FPGA based already. Only difference is the Analog path for the Filter,VCA etc..

The only issue I have with the Kyra is what does this bring that you cant get with something like Zebra HZ softsynth etc. since the entire instrument Virtual, including the filters etc. just like a Virtual synth running on a pc
Old 4 weeks ago
  #861
Gear Nut
To be fair to the Kyra , the demo machine was an early cut version from Waldorf , Digital VST's have come along way , yes Zebra can sound beautifull ,maybe Digital hardware is trying to catch up , any multitimbral hardware release is a good thing ,

Right now im prefering DSI P12 and Ambika but still like Kyra , Peaks effects lift the sound and great UI
Old 4 weeks ago
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
Well the Novation Peak is FPGA based already. Only difference is the Analog path for the Filter,VCA etc..

The only issue I have with the Kyra is what does this bring that you cant get with something like Zebra HZ softsynth etc. since the entire instrument Virtual, including the filters etc. just like a Virtual synth running on a pc
The Kyra is oversampled at something like 5mhz. There is a gorgeous clarity to it.

To approach that quality, I run ZebraHZ at 96khz in my DAW which uses a lot of CPU. Same with Bazille... Kyra, with 8 parts and 128 total voices will take a lot of load off of the CPU.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #863
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
The Kyra is oversampled at something like 5mhz
I suspected the Kyra/Valkyrie might be doing something like this but previously only saw a mention of it having a 96 kHz sampling rate. After a bit of googling I now find out that it's supposedly oversampling (its oscillators, at least) at 32X - so if that's 32 X 96 kHz, it makes it 3.072 MHz. Could it be that it's actually DOWNSAMPLING into a regular 96 kHz DAC just for output? Or perhaps the latter part of its signal chain (just the FX?) is running at 96 kHz, hence a regular 96 kHz DAC at the end?

Very high sampling rate continuous signal modelling with simple maths (no need for system-wide bandwidth limiting etc) has got to be the future of digital synthesis and digital sound in general. (Go ahead, mark my words!)

In practice it's only possible with FPGAs and other specialised hardware, so this also marks the end of an era for VSTs as the front line of digital synthesis technology.

What we need next (well, at least I do!) is a worthy successor to digital modular synthesis systems such as Clavia Nord Modulars and Symbolic Sound Kyma - but this time utilising very high sampling rate continuous signal modelling instead of the "classic" low sampling rate bandlimited PCM-based model.

Time to start learning HDL programming, I guess!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #864
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Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammy GS1 View Post
I suspected the Kyra/Valkyrie might be doing something like this but previously only saw a mention of it having a 96 kHz sampling rate. After a bit of googling I now find out that it's supposedly oversampling (its oscillators, at least) at 32X - so if that's 32 X 96 kHz, it makes it 3.072 MHz. Could it be that it's actually DOWNSAMPLING into a regular 96 kHz DAC just for output? Or perhaps the latter part of its signal chain (just the FX?) is running at 96 kHz, hence a regular 96 kHz DAC at the end?

Very high sampling rate continuous signal modelling with simple maths (no need for system-wide bandwidth limiting etc) has got to be the future of digital synthesis and digital sound in general. (Go ahead, mark my words!)

In practice it's only possible with FPGAs and other specialised hardware, so this also marks the end of an era for VSTs as the front line of digital synthesis technology.

What we need next (well, at least I do!) is a worthy successor to digital modular synthesis systems such as Clavia Nord Modulars and Symbolic Sound Kyma - but this time utilising very high sampling rate continuous signal modelling instead of the "classic" low sampling rate bandlimited PCM-based model.

Time to start learning HDL programming, I guess!
Normally, 32x oversampling would refer to Nyquist rate, which is 48 kHz. This gives around 1.5 MHz. No matter how fast the DAC is.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #865
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
Normally, 32x oversampling would refer to Nyquist rate, which is 48 kHz. This gives around 1.5 MHz. No matter how fast the DAC is.
Nyquist rate is 2x the highest frequency (96khz for 48khz), you are talking about Nyquist frequency.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #866
Gear Nut
 

I own a peak and I think the OSC are really cool, but I admit what flatters me the most about the synth is the ability to heavily or lightly drive the digital osc into an analog filter. If we are at that point of modeling accurately or even surpassing it with new modeled distortion types and characteristics using FGPA then I am 100 and 10% onboard for the new digital revolution.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #867
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Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
Nyquist rate is 2x the highest frequency (96khz for 48khz), you are talking about Nyquist frequency.
No, wrong, I mean Nyquist rate! Nyquist frequency is half the Nyquist rate (= Minimum required sampling rate).

Nyquist rate - Wikipedia

Well, 20 kHz is the human spectrum. And 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz would be regarded as the required sampling rate. And a 48 khz DAC would be sufficient.

So to compare different systems with just one number you would take 48 kHz as reference. If the DA-converter works at 96 khz or 192 khz or even at 384 khz only means that the output signal is generated 2x/4x/8x oversampled.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nleif View Post
I own a peak and I think the OSC are really cool, but I admit what flatters me the most about the synth is the ability to heavily or lightly drive the digital osc into an analog filter. If we are at that point of modeling accurately or even surpassing it with new modeled distortion types and characteristics using FGPA then I am 100 and 10% onboard for the new digital revolution.
I dont think we are there yet. The way Peak does its thing is quite nice, and that pre filter distortion is some of the best I have heard.

The Kyma is not going to give you that, Novation took the right path with the Peak you get the best of both worlds. The Kyma is going to be an expensive VST plugin.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #869
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
The Kyma is going to be an expensive VST plugin.
If your are going to make that comparison dont forget the computer part of the equation, its not just "an expensive VST plugin" but also a stand alone dedicated
computer running it...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #870
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markodarko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
The way Peak does its thing is quite nice, and that pre filter distortion is some of the best I have heard. The Kyma is not going to give you that
Not everything needs to have filter distortion and drive though.
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