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Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 26th January 2019
  #691
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Old 26th January 2019
  #692
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
Liked it a lot.
Old 26th January 2019
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
Liked it a lot.
Yeah, me too. Some of the presets appear to have been already programmed for the Valkyrie prototype (the same names, the same sounds), so Waldorf can't have made too many changes to the general architecture and it is basically still the same machine in a different livery.
Old 26th January 2019
  #694
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Sounding a lot more promising in this last demo
Old 26th January 2019
  #695
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Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds there is a little bit of filter stepping at 6:48.
Old 26th January 2019
  #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds there is a little bit of filter stepping at 6:48.
A "bit" of filter stepping?

Even with an analogue filter with analogue controls you'd hear something similar to stepping with high resonance and a source that has lots of harmonic content (basically peaks) but there is a lot of stepping on the Kyra.
I don't think it is something to worry about, I think this can be fixed with an update (interpolation).
I think it's especially pronounced as the filters are supposed to have extended range (something the developer stated in one of the first videos iirc) - the controls are 127 so the stepping will be even more pronounced with an extended filter frequency range (useful for filter FM).
Old 26th January 2019
  #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
A "bit" of filter stepping?

Even with an analogue filter with analogue controls you'd hear something similar to stepping with high resonance and a source that has lots of harmonic content (basically peaks) but there is a lot of stepping on the Kyra.
I don't think it is something to worry about, I think this can be fixed with an update (interpolation).
I think it's especially pronounced as the filters are supposed to have extended range (something the developer stated in one of the first videos iirc) - the controls are 127 so the stepping will be even more pronounced with an extended filter frequency range (useful for filter FM).
There shouldn't be any audible filter stepping because the internal resolution is supposed to be extremely high, at least this is what Manuel has stated with regard to his original Valkyrie design. It's not even that big of a deal to me. I don't sit in front of my synths all day agonizing over whether I hear some filter stepping or not, I just make patches and music with them. With that being said, I hope Waldorf to addresses this in due time.
Old 26th January 2019
  #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
There shouldn't be any audible filter stepping because the internal resolution is supposed to be extremely high, at least this is what Manuel has stated with regard to his original Valkyrie design. It's not even that big of a deal to me. I don't sit in front of my synths all day agonizing over whether I hear some filter stepping or not, I just make patches and music with them. With that being said, I hope Waldorf to addresses this in due time.
Run a saw wave through an analogue filter with high resonance and you will hear something similar to "stepping" (as the cutoff passes over the harmonics).

In the original video it was stated that the controls are 8-bit, regardless of what the internal resolution is there will be audible stepping unless the values from that controller are interpolated (the same way an 8-bit audio file will sound the same if you increase the bit depth but do nothing else). The effect is far more pronounced because (iirc) the filters have extended range.

E2a: just to clarify, you are only going to get stepping when you use the hardware UI, there should be no audible stepping when using internal modulation

Last edited by praiseallah; 26th January 2019 at 03:28 PM..
Old 26th January 2019
  #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
quite a better demo. it sounds very neutral to me. dont know if its good or bad
Old 26th January 2019
  #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satatek View Post
quite a better demo. it sounds very neutral to me. dont know if its good or bad
A lot of patches are the same as in the original Valkyrie, so nobody has done any proper sound design on Kyra yet. We'll probably have to wait for Musikmesse to hear the first proper demo of Kyra. I must say I like the tone of the synth, it's basically the same as the old Valkyrie, but I've warmed up to it over time. Particularly bell tones and orchestral pads sound fantastic.

Taking into account how vanilla some patches on Quantum sound, we might have to wait for proper demos and sound examples until this thing finally hits the streets and ordinary synth users get to program these units themselves. Waldorf isn't exactly adroit when it comes to promoting their products, fortunately their synths are inventive enough to make amends for it.
Old 26th January 2019
  #701
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I am game for a Virus or successor-like synth. So Kyra is right up where i am looking at.

One issue tho, the format. How much height units is it? And the backside is not recessed... wtf, not rackable? That'd result in a no buy from my side if so.
Old 26th January 2019
  #702
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Yeah, sounds pretty good. Finally a demo with some big pads and basses. I'm hoping it to be something for next to my Virus.
Old 27th January 2019
  #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
Alex Hartmann has been involved in designing a multitude of modern synths, namely Waldorf Wave, Microwave, Blofeld, Q (I think), Alesis A6, Access Virus Polar, Moog Little Phatty, Voyager XL, Arturia Minibrute, Hartmann Neuron, the Schmidt... the list goes on and on. He is one of the most renowned synth designers and his experience is undoubtedly immense. .
Why all the glory to one minor figure? He's just a industrial designer. He just doing the frontpanel graphics layout, sometimes case , layout of knobs switches, nothing else.

No fundamental hard work such as electrical engineering , no software coding, no soldering, no magic smoke , no powersupply, none of the nitty gritty stuff, only the glamour, the "bling"!

You have to learn the difference between engineers and designers, engineers "engineers and design" while designers just design.

No paint no painting, easy to draw a nice looking enclosure in a cad program but that does not make any sounds which you buy the thing for alright?.

For example for the Schmidt and Voyager he only did the panel graphics. Surely you judge your synth for the sound and not for the looks?

He have made great panel designs but also also utter crap. hes just a human with a special interest. Absolutely no superstar that shall be written some magic powers, like narcissistic musicians always want!
Old 27th January 2019
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
In the original video it was stated that the controls are 8-bit
In this day and age, I have to ask - why.
Old 27th January 2019
  #705
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Like it!
Props for using a Waldorf Blofeld keys as a controller
(a penny for every Keystep I have seen)


Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo View Post
It seems to have patches now..
Old 27th January 2019
  #706
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Listen at 6:54


Quote:
Originally Posted by satatek View Post
quite a better demo. it sounds very neutral to me. dont know if its good or bad
Old 27th January 2019
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonfocius View Post
Why all the glory to one minor figure? He's just a industrial designer. He just doing the frontpanel graphics layout, sometimes case , layout of knobs switches, nothing else.

No fundamental hard work such as electrical engineering , no software coding, no soldering, no magic smoke , no powersupply, none of the nitty gritty stuff, only the glamour, the "bling"!

You have to learn the difference between engineers and designers, engineers "engineers and design" while designers just design.

No paint no painting, easy to draw a nice looking enclosure in a cad program but that does not make any sounds which you buy the thing for alright?.

For example for the Schmidt and Voyager he only did the panel graphics. Surely you judge your synth for the sound and not for the looks?

He have made great panel designs but also also utter crap. hes just a human with a special interest. Absolutely no superstar that shall be written some magic powers, like narcissistic musicians always want!
A6 interface is pretty bad imo, just a good job it sounds so great.
I saw Waldorf getting praise for this synth somewhere in the thread and I thought that was a bit rich, really there is only one hero in this story and that is Manuel c:
This synth kind of reminds me of the Poly Schmidt actually; both creators had a similar goal in mind (perfection / absolute best) and they're both so passionate about it too (both synths seem like a labour of love).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
In this day and age, I have to ask - why.
I wish I could answer that :c. Maybe higher resolution encoders are prohibitively expensive or less reliable? Hopefully Midi 2 ushers in a wave of synths and controllers covered in 14/16/24 bit encoders - they should also have something in the spec about knob sizes too (which for parameters such as cutoff and pitch control should take all 4 fingers and a thumb to operate).

As long as the controller values are interpolated it shouldn't be so bad (although the extended cutoff range may cause issues), stepping / zipping on the Virus isn't bad at all.
Old 27th January 2019
  #708
HVX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
One issue tho, the format. How much height units is it? And the backside is not recessed... wtf, not rackable? That'd result in a no buy from my side if so.
Based on what I see, providing it is in fact rackable (which I'm hopeful for myself), it looks like 6U.
Old 27th January 2019
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo View Post
It seems to have patches now..
This is no different from the first video; the Kyra is a double clasped bra and this guy has never seen a t*tty

Really isn't his fault as he is clearly inexperienced but why would Waldorf leave demonstrations in the hands of someone like this? Almost as if they're trying to sabotage it or don't want too much revealed - maybe there are some control issues between Manuel (who is abscent) and Waldorf, Manuel looks like someone who won't settle for less than perfect and seems to be quite a particular person, and, Waldorf want to make money (Synth had a lot of buzz / free press before they became involved)

E2a: wrt scannable wavetables; anything is possible, it's built on FPGA
Old 27th January 2019
  #710
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I think it's got IT. What is it? It is the thing that you get from hardware, but not from software. Like the DSI synths. They got it. Even if you don't like virtual, the System 8 and the Virus; both got IT. And I'd say that this one's got it.
Old 27th January 2019
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBlade View Post
I think it's got IT. What is it? It is the thing that you get from hardware, but not from software. Like the DSI synths. They got it. Even if you don't like virtual, the System 8 and the Virus; both got IT. And I'd say that this one's got it.
Hardware UI?
Very nice that it's built on FPGA though, the first video was the best imo - from what I could gather, when a new synthesis engine is loaded the FPGA is reconfigured (although this may have been a miscommunication). The synth will be able to change drastically with new updates.
Old 27th January 2019
  #712
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Maybe they are being quiet about it due to the Quantum having just been released?
Old 27th January 2019
  #713
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synthguy's Avatar
Other than Quantum, I think Kyra won NAMM this year. Quantum is such a wonder machine though.
Old 27th January 2019
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Maybe they are being quiet about it due to the Quantum having just been released?
Next you're going to tell me the world isn't flat :>

I suppose they are competing products in a sense, still don't understand why you'd sabotage a product like that though
Old 27th January 2019
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
nice strings but otherwise not very impressive to me (not a trance fan at all). Not sure how much better this sounds than a Virus TI2. And filter stepping ... don't remember that stepping has ever been so obvious on analog synths. Try on a simple Moog Minitaur or Slim Phatty. The Kyra is supposed to have a modelled Moog filter. Given that the architecture is quite advanced I was hoping to hear more "avantgardistic" sounds, not the usual palette. Maybe in the next demo ...
Old 27th January 2019
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
nice strings but otherwise not very impressive to me (not a trance fan at all). Not sure how much better this sounds than a Virus TI2. And filter stepping ... don't remember that stepping has ever been so obvious on analog synths. Try on a simple Moog Minitaur or Slim Phatty. The Kyra is supposed to have a modelled Moog filter. Given that the architecture is quite advanced I was hoping to hear more "avantgardistic" sounds, not the usual palette. Maybe in the next demo ...
Some of the older demoes are much better, far more information and more sounds too.

YouTube

You do getting a stepping effect on analogues, run a saw wave into a filter with high resonance and then slowly sweep the filter; that's with an analogue pot, there are analogues with low resolution encoders where you actually do get stepping / zipping. It isn't really a problem as it can be fixed in software (lile on the Virus).

Hopefully it sees lots of new features added with updates (new filter, envelope, and, oscillator types etc). Waldorf should have played to it's strengths (FPGA) and developed it as a platform which other developers could release "software" for
Old 27th January 2019
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
it sees lots of new features added with updates (new filter, envelope, and, oscillator types etc). Waldorf should have played to it's strengths (FPGA) and developed it as a platform which other developers could release "software" for
Well, that's very unlikely. First of all they will not be able to connect with the rest of the design. They will never give their code. You have to meet timing constraints and the whole design is synthesized at once like an ASIC.
Old 27th January 2019
  #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
Well, that's very unlikely. First of all they will not be able to connect with the rest of the design. They will never give their code. You have to meet timing constraints and the whole design is synthesized at once like an ASIC.
Unlikely but not impossible; Manuel seemed to imply that the FPGA was reconfigured when the engine was changed (like changing oscillator types), it's possible that he has taken a modular approach to design and that it is only a partial reconfiguration which would make it more feasible.

E2a: I don't believe it's something that will happen and I've probably made it sound much simpler than it is but it would be nice.
Old 27th January 2019
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseallah View Post
Unlikely but not impossible; Manuel seemed to imply that the FPGA was reconfigured when the engine was changed (like changing oscillator types), it's possible that he has taken a modular approach to design and that it is only a partial reconfiguration which would make it more feasible.

E2a: I don't believe it's something that will happen and I've probably made it sound much simpler than it is but it would be nice.
What he probably does is to synthesizer a couple of different netlists, because ressources are limited. So the FPGA is reconfigured like loading a different software into DSP. So if that was a free platform, you could perhaps, as a third party developer, make a completely different design. On the other hand, you could also break things electronically by overheating the FPGA or misusing the IO pins, and who would be responsible in that case?
Old 27th January 2019
  #720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
What he probably does is to synthesizer a couple of different netlists, because ressources are limited. So the FPGA is reconfigured like loading a different software into DSP. So if that was a free platform, you could perhaps, as a third party developer, make a completely different design. On the other hand, you could also break things electronically by overheating the FPGA or misusing the IO pins, and who would be responsible in that case?
Waldorf Obviously :p
It wouldn't be completely open or even free, I'd imagine it could work like an app store and develppers would pay Waldorf a fee which could cover tbe cost of vetting their code.

I'd happily pay more for quite a few softsynths if it meant that I could run them on dedicated hardware with a hardware UI, even certain modules / elements of synths and effects.
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