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Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 15th June 2018
  #451
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Some people can make good music with one oscillator, some can make good music with 4096 of them. It doesn't matter as long as you pick the right amount of oscillators for YOU. Personally, I'm of the opinion that one can never have enough oscillators. But then, I'm a filthy oscillator w__re...
Old 16th June 2018
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
YOu have one?!
I created the Dark Star film score style demo and a couple of the trance ones

That was the terminator patch I made for it not sure whether it will still be used

Nutty T Sound design | Facebook
Old 28th June 2018
  #453
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Since Waldorf Music now seems to participate and monitor these threads to some extent, I'd like to contribute to the discussion and put in my two cents. I'm a great fan of the Waldorf and I want them to succeed with the Kyra as much as I want it to be my next synthesizer. This project has a lot of potential and hopefully the next fully digital Waldorf synth is going to become a magnificent instrument and a future classic. The FPGA technology seems way more customizable, flexible and powerful than the DSP, so at this stage of the development, some remarks made here might impact the specs of the final product. Perhaps it's just my naive notion, but as I’ve said before, I want this to be a great synth. If someone at Waldorf takes into account points that I make below, I’ll be more than satisfied. It's my first post here on Gearslutz and I do not profess to be the greatest synthesizer expert in the world, so if I say something that is ignorant or erroneous, please feel free to correct me.

- Allow people to use Kyra also as a full 10-OP FM synth with a multitude of algorithms. If this synth functions as a VA as well as a fully-fledged FM synth (we're talking about linear FM obviously), it’s bound to become a future classic. Some people say that FM is the next analog. While I wouldn't necessarily say that, there is definitely something to that claim and with Dave Smith incorporating sampling in his Prophet X, I'd say sampling and FM is going to become the next hot thing. Analog is definitely not going to go away or become extinct on account of its simplicity as well as the instant gratification it brings. Nevertheless, I feel there will be more and more demand for more complex hardware designs in the near future. If you release a seriously flexible FM synth now, you're going to leave the competition behind. With that being said, 10 oscillators without linear FM capabilities in and of itself seem like an overkill to me – NOT THAT I DO NOT WANT THEM, but I see a lot of potential for some linear FM implementation. And I'm not necessarily thinking about 10-FM patches. Combining 5 2-OP waveforms for instance and putting them through Kyra's dual filter would be a dream come true. Also, please consider implementing Feedback FM. Modulating mere analog waveforms with some Feedback FM and then using LFOs to control the amount of Feedback FM on these can sound phenomenal.

- Wavetable scanning. A must. I'm sure it's going to be implemented, it's Waldorf we're talking about after all, but… you know. Just saying. Now, combining linear FM with wavetable scanning... now that would something. Just sayin'.

- Please, please, focus on the quality of the built-in FX. One of the reasons why Access Virus TI was so popular at the time was the fact that it had a cracking FX section. I know it isn't a pure synthesis related matter, but it matters to quite a lot of people. It would be lovely to have a quality onboard chorus, a reverb and such. Do not underestimate the power of FX.

- While we're talking about the Virus, another reason why it became so popular was the fact that it had excellent presets. Once some bloke enters a shop and checks out a keyboard, he is not going to explore every nook and cranny of its synthesis engine, he is bound to head straight for the presets to get the general feel of the synth. If it means the synth's release has to be slightly postponed to put some more fancy presets in there, do it. The first impression matters, especially monetarily. Presets matter.

- Change the tone of the synth a bit so that it has its own, particular flavor. I wasn't THAT impressed with the sounds that I've heard from Exodus Digital Valkyrie. Yes, I know it could've been just a matter of programming, but then again, it sounded a lot like a Virus IMHO. Not that it sounded bad, it sounded quite good, but it would be lovely if Kyra had its distinctive tone, not Virus-y or Blofeld-y. Perhaps something more akin to Waldorf Q which is a synth many people lust after to this day.

- Eradicate all bugs. Just sayin’. As I’ve said above, the first impression matters. I’m aware you cannot squash every bug out there, but at least make sure the number of bugs is kept to a bare minimum.

- A 5-octave FATAR keyboard, please. Also, I don’t know if I’m the only one that feels that way, but keep the mod and pitch wheels from the Quantum. They look super rugged and sexy.

I do not expect that everything from my little list is going to come true or anything like that. I’m not a moron and I know there is a myriad of things that factor into the way a hardware is designed and not every single feature is going to be put in there. I am well aware of that.

Keeping my fingers crossed for the people at Waldorf. There are people who appreciate your vision and your passion for developing high-quality instruments. Thank you.
Old 28th June 2018
  #454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
- Change the tone of the synth a bit so that it has its own, particular flavor . . . but it would be lovely if Kyra had its distinctive tone, not Virus-y or Blofeld-y. Perhaps something more akin to Waldorf Q which is a synth many people lust after to this day.
The Valkyrie demo reminded me of my VirusTI also. Make the Kyra capable of sounding like a hardware version of u-he's Zebra with rack-ears and S/PDIF, and I'm in!
Old 28th June 2018
  #455
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

I want it to wash my car and do the dishes OK?
Old 28th June 2018
  #456
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mickey13's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
I want it to wash my car and do the dishes OK?
What about the toilet and the lawn?

Seriously though, all I want Waldorf to do is simply to consider adding the aforementioned features. If they are like 'It'd be cool to include those feature, but it's too costly to implement or nonviable for X, Y, Z reasons', then guess what, it's exactly the thing I want. I merely want them to contemplate changing and expanding the sound engine.

If they omit additional FM capabilities, well that's too bad. They might as well release the synth without any linear FM. Perhaps they will announce that it's going to be included in some OS update in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd already given some thought to some of these points. If they implement wavetable scanning, provide a quality keybed, an integrated power supply and a satisfactory FX section (not necessarily top tier à la Strymon or Eventide), I'll still buy it probably.

With all that being said, since the demos of the Exodus Digital's Valkyrie were taken down from the soundcloud page, it may mean that the Kyra is going to sound somewhat different, be different from a programming standpoint. This is why I'm sharing my thoughts here. Perhaps someone at Waldorf finds them interesting. If not, then oh well, at least I tried. How different from Valkyrie the Kyra going to be is yet another matter altogether and we'll have to wait and see for ourselves.
Old 28th June 2018
  #457
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VennD68's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
- Eradicate all bugs. Just sayin’. As I’ve said above, the first impression matters. I’m aware you cannot squash every bug out there, but at least make sure the number of bugs is kept to a bare minimum.

"Just saying" - if you want that to be the case then adding a slew of new features to a synth that has been pretty well coded and developed up to this point probably isn't a good idea at this point in time.

Better to refine what is there and getting working in a stable way with the ability to upgrade the feature set later.

I never want to go through the "SOON" hell that was Waldorf when the Q needed OS updates and bug fixes. Part of my interest in this is that it hasn't be coded by people at Waldorf (thus far) and if he's left to the FPGA development with Waldorf oversight I'd feel more comfortable with the unit on release day.
Old 28th June 2018
  #458
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robinkle's Avatar
After watching a video of the editor. Adding a linear FM engine would make sense. I hope this will be considered.
Old 28th June 2018
  #459
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daviddever's Avatar
For the sake of delivering a working product on-time as advertised, skip the linear FM for now.

If the demand is truly there, charge folks for it later, taking the time to get it right.

I'm pretty sick and tired of feature-laden products that fall apart when you pick them up, so to speak.
Old 28th June 2018
  #460
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddever View Post
For the sake of delivering a working product on-time as advertised, skip the linear FM for now.

If the demand is truly there, charge folks for it later, taking the time to get it right.

I'm pretty sick and tired of feature-laden products that fall apart when you pick them up, so to speak.
So the programmer should sit and do nothing untill release? The software is already done, some minor adjustments might be necessary due to the new UI. Meanwhile adding more features can be done.

More suggestions please!
Old 28th June 2018
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
So the programmer should sit and do nothing untill release? The software is already done, some minor adjustments might be necessary due to the new UI. Meanwhile adding more features can be done.
What can also be done is for them to ensure that, after the horrendous "launch" of the Quantum, the Kyra is launched on time, on spec and on point. They can only do that by concentrating all of their efforts into ensuring that the product is 100% READY for launch - including spending time making product videos, soundcloud snippets and the like - and avoid scope creep at all costs as Waldorf really need to claw back some "dignity" (for want of a better word) with the next product launch.

In my humble opinion, of course.

Old 28th June 2018
  #462
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
So the programmer should sit and do nothing untill release? The software is already done, some minor adjustments might be necessary due to the new UI. Meanwhile adding more features can be done.
The planned macOS and Windows editors were not complete when we last heard about the instrument, and were very much on the developer’s roadmap. It seems the effects section is also planned to be more exhaustive than the last time we saw it. Waldorf’s changes to the panel layout may also entail work. Lastly, being feature complete and usable is not the same thing as being done. Getting a real QA cycle to make sure it’s ready for release will doubtless take time.

Beyond that?

Quote:
More suggestions please!
Absolutely! I just don’t expect suggestions to have any but minor influence on v1 of the product. Now would seem to be a great time to put in work on the first major update. Or a successor based on the same core “audio platform” the creator was justifiably proud of.
Old 28th June 2018
  #463
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
The planned macOS and Windows editors were not complete when we last heard about the instrument, and were very much on the developer’s roadmap. It seems the effects section is also planned to be more exhaustive than the last time we saw it. Waldorf’s changes to the panel layout may also entail work. Lastly, being feature complete and usable is not the same thing as being done. Getting a real QA cycle to make sure it’s ready for release will doubtless take time.

Beyond that?



Absolutely! I just don’t expect suggestions to have any but minor influence on v1 of the product. Now would seem to be a great time to put in work on the first major update. Or a successor based on the same core “audio platform” the creator was justifiably proud of.
The editor was working. But only as stand-alone editor. The plugin comes later.
Old 28th June 2018
  #464
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
What can also be done is for them to ensure that, after the horrendous "launch" of the Quantum, the Kyra is launched on time, on spec and on point. They can only do that by concentrating all of their efforts into ensuring that the product is 100% READY for launch - including spending time making product videos, soundcloud snippets and the like - and avoid scope creep at all costs as Waldorf really need to claw back some "dignity" (for want of a better word) with the next product launch.

In my humble opinion, of course.

I'm sure our opinions and suggestions won't place themselves on the to-do list at Waldorf HQ, so that they have to reschedule the launch. It's a ridiculous assumption. In my opinion.
Old 29th June 2018
  #465
Here for the gear
 

launched on time for kyra..i wont be that sure. anyway i think i will wait for kyra + add h9 max / strymon / etc. , rather than buying quantum as for now there are not sufficient audio demos to make me say 'thats it i ll buy quantum'. ?
Old 29th June 2018
  #466
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daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
So the programmer should sit and do nothing untill release? The software is already done, some minor adjustments might be necessary due to the new UI. Meanwhile adding more features can be done.
I'm guessing that you don't work as a developer - there's always something that needs fixing or can be improved without adding functionality.
Old 29th June 2018
  #467
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddever View Post
I'm guessing that you don't work as a developer - there's always something that needs fixing or can be improved without adding functionality.
I’m a game developer.

I’m not denying that at all.
Old 29th June 2018
  #468
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey13 View Post
Since Waldorf Music now seems to participate and monitor these threads to some extent, I'd like to contribute to the discussion and put in my two cents. I'm a great fan of the Waldorf and I want them to succeed with the Kyra as much as I want it to be my next synthesizer. This project has a lot of potential and hopefully the next fully digital Waldorf synth is going to become a magnificent instrument and a future classic. The FPGA technology seems way more customizable, flexible and powerful than the DSP, so at this stage of the development, some remarks made here might impact the specs of the final product. Perhaps it's just my naive notion, but as I’ve said before, I want this to be a great synth. If someone at Waldorf takes into account points that I make below, I’ll be more than satisfied. It's my first post here on Gearslutz and I do not profess to be the greatest synthesizer expert in the world, so if I say something that is ignorant or erroneous, please feel free to correct me.

- Allow people to use Kyra also as a full 10-OP FM synth with a multitude of algorithms. If this synth functions as a VA as well as a fully-fledged FM synth (we're talking about linear FM obviously), it’s bound to become a future classic. Some people say that FM is the next analog. While I wouldn't necessarily say that, there is definitely something to that claim and with Dave Smith incorporating sampling in his Prophet X, I'd say sampling and FM is going to become the next hot thing. Analog is definitely not going to go away or become extinct on account of its simplicity as well as the instant gratification it brings. Nevertheless, I feel there will be more and more demand for more complex hardware designs in the near future. If you release a seriously flexible FM synth now, you're going to leave the competition behind. With that being said, 10 oscillators without linear FM capabilities in and of itself seem like an overkill to me – NOT THAT I DO NOT WANT THEM, but I see a lot of potential for some linear FM implementation. And I'm not necessarily thinking about 10-FM patches. Combining 5 2-OP waveforms for instance and putting them through Kyra's dual filter would be a dream come true. Also, please consider implementing Feedback FM. Modulating mere analog waveforms with some Feedback FM and then using LFOs to control the amount of Feedback FM on these can sound phenomenal.

- Wavetable scanning. A must. I'm sure it's going to be implemented, it's Waldorf we're talking about after all, but… you know. Just saying. Now, combining linear FM with wavetable scanning... now that would something. Just sayin'.

- Please, please, focus on the quality of the built-in FX. One of the reasons why Access Virus TI was so popular at the time was the fact that it had a cracking FX section. I know it isn't a pure synthesis related matter, but it matters to quite a lot of people. It would be lovely to have a quality onboard chorus, a reverb and such. Do not underestimate the power of FX.

- While we're talking about the Virus, another reason why it became so popular was the fact that it had excellent presets. Once some bloke enters a shop and checks out a keyboard, he is not going to explore every nook and cranny of its synthesis engine, he is bound to head straight for the presets to get the general feel of the synth. If it means the synth's release has to be slightly postponed to put some more fancy presets in there, do it. The first impression matters, especially monetarily. Presets matter.

- Change the tone of the synth a bit so that it has its own, particular flavor. I wasn't THAT impressed with the sounds that I've heard from Exodus Digital Valkyrie. Yes, I know it could've been just a matter of programming, but then again, it sounded a lot like a Virus IMHO. Not that it sounded bad, it sounded quite good, but it would be lovely if Kyra had its distinctive tone, not Virus-y or Blofeld-y. Perhaps something more akin to Waldorf Q which is a synth many people lust after to this day.

- Eradicate all bugs. Just sayin’. As I’ve said above, the first impression matters. I’m aware you cannot squash every bug out there, but at least make sure the number of bugs is kept to a bare minimum.

- A 5-octave FATAR keyboard, please. Also, I don’t know if I’m the only one that feels that way, but keep the mod and pitch wheels from the Quantum. They look super rugged and sexy.

I do not expect that everything from my little list is going to come true or anything like that. I’m not a moron and I know there is a myriad of things that factor into the way a hardware is designed and not every single feature is going to be put in there. I am well aware of that.

Keeping my fingers crossed for the people at Waldorf. There are people who appreciate your vision and your passion for developing high-quality instruments. Thank you.
I always think there's never any harm in these kind of posts, particularly as Waldorf have appeared, and interactively, on the Quantum thread. I'd too love the Kyra to do 10-op linear FM, though I believe the '10 oscillators' are actually 2 oscillators each with a choice of 5 different simultaneous waveforms/shapes (someone correct me if I've got that wrong). And also its physical interface isn't conducive to programming multi-op FM.
I think as it is, bar possibly the wavetable scanning which looks to be the only obvious omission on a Waldorf digital synth, the Kyra looks complete.
BUT, also, now Waldorf have their new secret-weapon in the form of Manuel Caballero, a 10-op synth designed by him, in a similar form factor to the Kyra might be an EXCELLENT product to develop as a follow-up to the Kyra. With a pitch envelope per operator? Eh? Waldorf?
Old 30th June 2018
  #469
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Kennedy View Post
I think as it is, bar possibly the wavetable scanning which looks to be the only obvious omission on a Waldorf digital synth, the Kyra looks complete.
Not the focus of your post, but worth commenting on.

Waldorf used to have the wave-series of synths with scannable/morphing wavetables. Blofeld and Quantum are the heirs of that.

Their Q-series had single cycle waves collections organized in wavetables, but not real wavetables to scan thru to make sounds without filters/shapers/etc... So Kyra seems more like a successor to the Q-series.
Old 30th June 2018
  #470
Gear Head
If it doesn't have wavetable scanning, that's pretty much the end of my interest in it. But, didn't they say in the press release it had 4096 waves? I can't imagine that's the case and that it doesn't have wavetable scanning...
Old 1st July 2018
  #471
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer99 View Post
If it doesn't have wavetable scanning, that's pretty much the end of my interest in it. But, didn't they say in the press release it had 4096 waves? I can't imagine that's the case and that it doesn't have wavetable scanning...
Yes but no scanning , just single cycled ,
Old 1st July 2018
  #472
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer99 View Post
If it doesn't have wavetable scanning, that's pretty much the end of my interest in it. But, didn't they say in the press release it had 4096 waves? I can't imagine that's the case and that it doesn't have wavetable scanning...
If it helps consider it more like a Prophet VS than a PPG.
Old 1st July 2018
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer99 View Post
If it doesn't have wavetable scanning, that's pretty much the end of my interest in it. But, didn't they say in the press release it had 4096 waves? I can't imagine that's the case and that it doesn't have wavetable scanning...
I guess you can modulate the wave selection. Some of the wave banks have very similar waves in adjacent slots, so "switching" between waves is reasonably similar to a smooth scan in many cases (at least when wave switching only happens at zero crossings).

What is probably missing is interpolation/crossfading between adjacent waves. Crossfading can "muddy" the sound, but it also avoids artifacts. Adding interpolation might be tricky. There might actually be hardware limitations. The oscillators are updating at 1.5 MHz and there are two wavetables, 128 voices and probably 16 bit samples. That adds up to roughly 768 Megabyte/second memory transfer rate. Note huge by todays standards, but it might be a limit...

Concerning linear FM: I guess that the "normal" FM will already be linear and (hopefully) through zero. Going to more oscillators while staying linear (not differential/phase modulation) can introduce pitch instabilities. Differential/phase modulation gets slightly nasty when using modulators with lots of harmonics (saw/square). Since Sines need additional table lookups, those might be tricky...

There are already a bunch of options to modify spectral content on the oscillator level (pseudo-sync, mixing levels, RM and FM and probably wave switching) and I don´t think this wants to be a catch all digital synth, but just a powerful, mostly classic VA synth...
Old 17th August 2018
  #474
Here for the gear
Any news?

Hi, all, haven't heard anything more anywhere on this intriguing sounding synth, which makes me suspicious that January 2019 is any sort of realistic release date?

Any new info any of you have uncovered? Or any completely baseless yet fascinating speculation?
Old 17th August 2018
  #475
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky22 View Post
Hi, all, haven't heard anything more anywhere on this intriguing sounding synth, which makes me suspicious that January 2019 is any sort of realistic release date?

Any new info any of you have uncovered? Or any completely baseless yet fascinating speculation?
It's summer?

/C
Old 17th August 2018
  #476
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
It's summer?

/C

That depends where you are......

Old 17th August 2018
  #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
That depends where you are......

Absolutely. But in Germany it's very much summer. And a very very very warm summer at that.

/C
Old 17th August 2018
  #478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky22 View Post
Hi, all, haven't heard anything more anywhere on this intriguing sounding synth, which makes me suspicious that January 2019 is any sort of realistic release date?
Cosmetics aside, the internal design and software seemed to be in good shape when it was last shown. The focus from here would be 100% around sourcing components and lining up production, so unless there are issues with financing any of the above I don't see any reason to believe January is unrealistic.

Hopefully they've just learned their lesson with dribbling information out and are focused on having production ramping up at the same time they're showcasing it to dealers to line up orders and promotion.
Old 20th August 2018
  #479
Gear Addict
 

cant wait
Old 20th August 2018
  #480
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-d-S View Post
cant wait
If it's anything like the Quantum release......you will wait!

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