The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Waldorf Kyra FPGA Rack/Desktop Coming to NAMM 2019 (originally Exodus Valkyrie) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 11th June 2018
  #421
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
why do we need two threads for the same synth?


can mods just rename the Valkyrie thread to Waldorf Kyra (ex-Valkyrie) or something like that, and be done with it.

original thread name is innacurate anyway since the synth cant do wavetabling . its much more than VA too, so ..

that said, hope springs eternal that waldorf adds wavetabling i.e. scanning in the future

@Reptil
From the Sound on Sound article:
"Now dubbed Kyra, the synth is powered by FPGA (Field-Programmable Gate Array) processing, which makers claim will significantly outperform legacy DSP tech. As far as features go, this looks like eight-part multitimbrality (with each part having its own dedicated nine-module effects unit), 32x oversampled hardware with dual wavetables providing over 4,000 waveshapes, true stereo operation, hard sync, FM (Frequency Modulation), and ring modulation."

Does this answer your question or create more?
Old 11th June 2018
  #422
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Yes, that's single-cycle waveforms, not Waldorf-style wavetables. It was shown in the Messe videos that they are single-cycle waveforms and there was no wavetable scanning showcased anywhere.
Old 11th June 2018
  #423
Lives for gear
 
robinkle's Avatar
Edit: It looks like from the rendering, that the layout and design has been changed drastically.

This looks very interesting now. I hope the keyboard version will have a 5-octave fatar keybed.

Last edited by robinkle; 11th June 2018 at 07:22 PM..
Old 11th June 2018
  #424
What? No spring reverb? The hipsters won’t buy it.
Old 11th June 2018
  #425
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
nevermind..
Old 11th June 2018
  #426
Very cool! I re-watched Manuel's Messe video and it looks like a thoroughly modern implemention of current technology. Best of all, it's not $4,000, and doesn't offer unbalanced 1/4"-phone as it sole output—instead, it's multiple, assignable balanced-outs, plus multi-channel digital audio over class-compliant USB with plug-and-play compatibility with macOS (though, an additional S/PDIF output would've been nice).

Reading back a few pages, although Manuel mentions a 19"-rack model coming after the desktop in the video, it looks like the desktop and rack-mount will be one in the same in its new incarnation. He mentions the Moog-like ladder filters modeled in hardware, also in the video. Plus, its new industrial design is f*cking gorgeous. So, ≈$2,238USD, shipping at launch at NAMM in January 2019. I'm guessing Access' Virus sales will drop considerably.
Old 11th June 2018
  #427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Michel View Post
I find the 'let's convert digital audio to analog so that it can be recorded digitally in a DAW' notion idiotic . . .
Exactly! S/PDIF is the consumer version of the AES/EBU digital audio standard, developed by Sony/Philips, and it just plain works—no drivers needed—ever. I use a Roland M-1000 digital line-mixer (which also doesn't need a driver since it's class-compliant) to send all of my TOSlink- and S/PDIF-equipped synths to Apple Logic Pro X running on an iMac. Even my 15-year-old Fantom XR has S/PDIF and it still works perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Michel View Post
And as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) if you want to use a digital USB audio out then in most cases the synth wants to act as your main audio interface.
My main "audio interface" is a powered USB hub. I connect my Montage via USB since I ran out of S/PDIF inputs on my Roland M-1000 digital line-mixer. I use Apple's aggregate device applet to combine the USB inputs from my Montage and M-1000 to accommodate five digital-I/O devices. When I get another M-1000, I can connect four more S/PDIF-equipped synths (e.g., maybe a System-8 or JD-Xa, via the S/PDIF output on the Roland MX-1). The Kyra will have to use another USB slot in the hub.
Old 11th June 2018
  #428
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
original thread name is innacurate anyway since the synth cant do wavetabling . its much more than VA too, so ..

that said, hope springs eternal that waldorf adds wavetabling i.e. scanning in the future

@Reptil
Yeah, that would be my hope as well. I was surprised that they left this out in the first place. The Virus TI has really nice wavetables and cool alternate ways to scan them (grain and formant).
Old 11th June 2018
  #429
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
From the Sound on Sound article:
"Now dubbed Kyra, the synth is powered by FPGA (Field-Programmable Gate Array) processing, which makers claim will significantly outperform legacy DSP tech. As far as features go, this looks like eight-part multitimbrality (with each part having its own dedicated nine-module effects unit), 32x oversampled hardware with dual wavetables providing over 4,000 waveshapes, true stereo operation, hard sync, FM (Frequency Modulation), and ring modulation."

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Yeah, that would be my hope as well. I was surprised that they left this out in the first place. The Virus TI has really nice wavetables and cool alternate ways to scan them (grain and formant).

Didn't know if you saw my post above
Old 11th June 2018
  #430
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
Didn't know if you saw my post above
I did, but it was my understanding that they mean wavetable like Modal means wavetable, not like Waldorf.
Old 11th June 2018
  #431
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by studio460 View Post
My main "audio interface" is a powered USB hub. I connect my Montage via USB since I ran out of S/PDIF inputs on my Roland M-1000 digital line-mixer.
I think what you meant to say was:

"I connect my Montage via USB since Montage DOES NOT have a S/PDIF output"


Quote:
I use Apple's aggregate device applet to combine the USB inputs from my Montage and M-1000 to accommodate five digital-I/O devices.
So are you saying that Montage can provide USB audio without insisting on becoming your main audio interface? Sorry if it's a dumb question, I haven't had any experience with USB audio, but that's what I got from their forums (from one of their most annoying employees IIRC).

EDIT:

Quote:
I use Apple's aggregate device applet to combine the USB inputs from my Montage and m-1000 to accommodate five digital-I/O devices.
Yeah, that's the thing that Windows is clearly missing. Bummer.
Old 12th June 2018
  #432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Michel View Post
I think what you meant to say was: 'I connect my Montage via USB since Montage DOES NOT have a S/PDIF output.'
Ha! Right! That actually caught me by surprise because the Motif XS/XF-series both have S/PDIF-outs. But unlike Roland, Yamaha is known to provide continued support for its products, well after EOL (though, it still makes me a little nervous that they dropped S/PDIF from the Montage). The Kronos offers S/PDIF out, but uses a TOSlink digital-optical connector instead of coax like everyone else. Luckily the Roland M-1000 includes one input that's switchable between a TOSlink digital-optical input and a coax input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Michel View Post
So are you saying that Montage can provide USB audio without insisting on becoming your main audio interface?
Yes, absolutely! I don't use the Yamaha Connect plug-in, instead I just use a single stereo digital audio-pair that comes out of the Montage's USB port and into my hub (even though the basic Montage driver provides up to six channels without the plug-in), and record that "live" into an audio track in Logic (I never record MIDI). What's interesting is that older Roland products' USB ports appear to be class-complaint, not requiring a driver to work in the current macOS (e.g., Fantom G, M-1000, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Michel View Post
Yeah, that's the thing that Windows is clearly missing. Bummer.
Yeah . . . that's gotta be one of the key benefits of using a macOS-based DAW. Luckily, the macOS' aggregate applet just works. Without it, I would only be able to audition a few synths at any one time (i.e., by choosing only a single interface at a time) instead of everything, concurrently, from multiple interfaces.

Now, back to Kyra . . .
Old 12th June 2018
  #433
Lives for gear
 
robinkle's Avatar
I wonder if it can do linear FM.
Old 12th June 2018
  #434
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yes, that's single-cycle waveforms, not Waldorf-style wavetables. It was shown in the Messe videos that they are single-cycle waveforms and there was no wavetable scanning showcased anywhere.
Nothing is stopping Waldorf from expanding and experimenting, especially given the fact that Waldorf didn't have a hand in designing the Messe prototype. One can dream
Old 12th June 2018
  #435
Gear Addict
 
j3rk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairbow View Post
Nothing is stopping Waldorf from expanding and experimenting, especially given the fact that Waldorf didn't have a hand in designing the Messe prototype. One can dream
Just adding scanning should be pretty minimal I would think, but there are some other considerations. Interpolation would be a big one. Also, if the single cycles aren't arranged into blocks (tables) that make sense, telling your modulator what to scan could be tricky or tedious. Still, I would think it wouldn't be THAT big of a deal to add in the scheme of things given the power of the synth, and the effort that obviously went into making it. One of the good things about FPGAs, is that they're easily updated.
Old 12th June 2018
  #436
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
I wonder if it can do linear FM.
When it was first being touted as "10 oscillators" this was my first thought :o/
Old 13th June 2018
  #437
Lives for gear
 
syntonica's Avatar
I'm behind on tech these days--I spend my time on coding and music. Are FPGAs basically like the Transmeta Crusoe, only more newfangled and/or general case?

Regarding the keyboard, I like the sound of it, although it's a bit bland. I'm gonna wait until there are more sound designers jumping on board (I hope that what Waldorf brings to the table is access to this type of resource and less sticking their fingers into the design pie) and more demos come out that show what this baby can really do.
Old 13th June 2018
  #438
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by syntonica View Post
I'm behind on tech these days--I spend my time on coding and music. Are FPGAs basically like the Transmeta Crusoe, only more newfangled and/or general case?
Hmmm. Not really. The Transmeta concept was more about translating software on the fly, but each iteration was still effectively a fixed function CPU design. You never compiled code directly for its native instruction set, which in theory would let new designs evolve in dramatic ways, because it used x86 as an abstraction. The fact that it never went anywhere says more about how bad x86 is as an abstraction than anything specific about the Transmeta hardware designs. The Crusoe may well have been an FPGA design but that wasn’t really the notable thing about it that got people interested in the first place. Consider it a potential implementation detail (and not one I’m that familiar with so I couldn’t say for certain one way or another.)

FPGAs are relatively freely reconfigurable digital hardware. They’re not really about software at all, but about (a) being able to update digital signal processing pathways on the fly, including delivering new features with a simple firmware update, and (b) making it possible to ship a highly specialized design for a niche product without all the overhead costs of building a custom ASIC. They’re capable of being much more highly parallel than a general-purpose CPU or DSP because you can dedicate relatively small amounts of logic to specialized functionality that runs in parallel with everything else. In this case, that’s part of how you get 1280 oscillators producing signals concurrently.

The hype about this being the first instrument based around an FPGA design is a little on the silly side. Kurzweil’s LENA design is an FPGA replacement for a pair of their prior generation MARA ASICs, and I doubt Kurzweil we’re the first, either. FPGAs have been around since 1985.
Old 13th June 2018
  #439
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by syntonica View Post
Are FPGAs basically like the Transmeta Crusoe, only more newfangled and/or general case?
No, it's different technology. Crusoe is still instruction-set/CPU oriented, with dynamic translation of machine codes. FPGAs are like programmable ICs, the basic elements being logic gates and the programming setting up the connections between them. (Though these days, higher-level components like adders, multipliers and memory cells are effectively the circuit elements.)
Old 13th June 2018
  #440
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
The Transmeta concept was more about translating software on the fly, but each iteration was still a fixed function CPU design. You never compiled code directly for its native instruction set, which in theory would let new designs evolve in dramatic ways, because it used x86 as an abstraction. The fact that it never went anywhere says more about how bad x86 is as an abstraction than anything specific about the Transmeta hardware designs.
LLVM is perhaps the current instantiation of this idea of having a lower-level target instruction set, with (as is customary in our field) yet another layer of abstraction.
Old 13th June 2018
  #441
Lives for gear
 
syntonica's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
FPGAs are relatively freely reconfigurable digital hardware. They’re not really about software at all, but about (a) being able to update digital signal processing pathways on the fly, including delivering new features with a simple firmware update, and (b) making it possible to ship a highly specialized design for a niche product without all the overhead costs of building a custom ASIC. They’re capable of being much more highly parallel than a general-purpose CPU or DSP because you can dedicate relatively amounts of logic to specialized functionality that runs in parallel with everything else. In this case, that’s part of how you get 1280 oscillators producing signals concurrently.
Thanks!

Cool. I got it now. I tried reading the wiki page, but it always ends up sounding like the principal on the Peanuts cartoons. The joys of being on the autism spectrum! Everyone on this forum can be incredibly helpful. They're able to 'splain different in a way I can understand. The musical mind at work?
Old 13th June 2018
  #442
Lives for gear
 
syntonica's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimwolf View Post
No, it's different technology. Crusoe is still instruction-set/CPU oriented, with dynamic translation of machine codes. FPGAs are like programmable ICs, the basic elements being logic gates and the programming setting up the connections between them. (Though these days, higher-level components like adders, multipliers and memory cells are effectively the circuit elements.)
Thanks! Between you and Lady Gaia, I got it now.
Old 13th June 2018
  #443
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by syntonica View Post
Thanks!
You’re welcome! It’s one of the things I really enjoy on this forum. The overlap between highly technical and musically inclined people turns into some truly fascinating conversation.

Then again, occasionally it gets out of control. Warning! Geek alert beyond this point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimwolf View Post
LLVM is perhaps the current instantiation of this idea of having a lower-level target instruction set, with (as is customary in our field) yet another layer of abstraction.
Yes, LLVM is a much better strategy for something similar though it doesn’t address Transmeta’s original goal of running existing, commercially available binary code. Still, where LLVM succeeds is doing something that has been a dream for a long time, with the OSF/1 portable binary format being one prior example. Like any abstraction it picks its fights (relatively high abstraction for registers where it allows an infinite number vs. relatively low abstraction for word length where 32-bit vs. 64-bit representations are still essentially decisions baked in when source is compiled.)

Overall, though, LLVM was a huge step forward for the software industry and compiler design in general.
Old 13th June 2018
  #444
Lives for gear
 
syntonica's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Overall, though, LLVM was a huge step forward for the software industry and compiler design in general.
It's p-code.

Although it does seem like it's taken it to a whole new level. It's ability to be the middleware for any language compiler and still match GCC for speeds/memory footprint definitely means it's headed in the right direction. My only experience with it is using OSX Clang, but the optimization is amazing. I can get 2-2.5x faster speeds, and that after hand optimization and very little actual auto-vectorization. I'm still learning the M$ VS C-family compiler, and haven't used gcc for anything in ages, but as I understand it, LLVM vs. the others is pretty much a wash in terms of quality of final product (some instances better, some instances worse), but the compile times can be magnitudes faster.

Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled thread about a cool new synth I can't wait to see released into the wild!
Old 15th June 2018
  #445
Here for the gear
 

The Valkyrie is a really nice synth it’s especially good for pads, bass and atmospheres. I made a really nice Terminator style lead for it.
Old 15th June 2018
  #446
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyt View Post
The Valkyrie is a really nice synth it’s especially good for pads, bass and atmospheres. I made a really nice Terminator style lead for it.
Many people are comparing it to the Virus. But the Virus is best for leads. How are the leads of the Valkyrie?

Maybe it's not a replacement, but a nice combination with the Virus.
Old 15th June 2018
  #447
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyt View Post
The Valkyrie is a really nice synth it’s especially good for pads, bass and atmospheres. I made a really nice Terminator style lead for it.
YOu have one?!
Old 15th June 2018
  #448
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
YOu have one?!
He created some of the original demos. Unfortunately they're gone from Soundcloud now.
Old 15th June 2018
  #449
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
So i know this is probably a false hope

But as i scour my box of transformers aka ‘crufty crap’ for my jomox wall wart, here is to hoping it comes with an internal power supply.

Since its digital and all...
Old 15th June 2018
  #450
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
I can’t make good music without 1281 oscillators
You have 1281 Osc and you define them...
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump