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any good site for uploading my music ? Modular Synthesizers
Old 29th April 2018
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pichi View Post
Your timeline is a bit off there. There were no pdfs or photoshop is 1988 or consumer cd-r burners.
In 1988 I could have made a tape and taken it to the local student radio station to get some air time and then make some tapes available at the local record stores. If the response was good then you could take it to the next level and have some CDs or LPs made, or as was usually the case get signed to an indie label. People actually bought music back then so you could make some money even at a local level. These days we have the whole world but in an oversaturated market where most people do not pay for music.
So true, it’s changed dramatically. The old days were harder but more rewarding when you had success. But recording is a lot cheaper so there is that.
Old 29th April 2018
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
I'm pretty sure you'll find that people still pay for music else there'd be no record companies to speak of and there wouldn't be $Billions/year revenues. Perhaps they don't buy music in the same way, but they buy it alright:

Digital Music Industry - Statistics & Facts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
More people are paying more money for music than ever before. Did you know, for example, that headphone sales have skyrocketed since the early 2000s?
Spotify might be getting paid, but musicians? Not so much. It seems to me there are only 2 choices. Either you aim for pop stardom and just maybe you break into the top 10% of earners and make a living or you stick with your day job, music related or not, and do music as a hobby, don't worry about the money.
If you do music that isn't pop you may as well forget about the money. The point of getting heard on student radio in the '80s was that you had a chance at making it as an indie act. Think Sonic Youth. You could still try these days but good luck making it more than a couple of years as just a live act because there won't be much if any income coming from music sales.
And if spending all your time on social media is what it takes these days then why bother? In the end that's no different than having a day job and doing music in your spare time.
Just some thoughts anyway. Always interested to hear different opinions.
Old 29th April 2018
  #123
Gear Addict
 

I boycott Spotify. The devaluation of music disgusts me. 3 million views / plays per months earn you as much as if you were living on social welfare (in the eu). No, thanks!

To recap:
  • bandcamp.com - Hosts your music for free (streaming in 128kb, downloads in lossless quality). Pay what-you-want option. They take 15% but I thinks that's fair.
  • youtube.com - The most popular music archive. Good "AI" based recommendation system that is great for discovering new music. Please upload all your releases there (in lower quality so ppl have an incentive to buy the HQ version). And don't forget to include a bandcamp link in the video description.
  • soundcloud.com - For dumping audio (work in progress stuff and out-takes). Don't expect to gain much popularity from this but I am thankful for their services (also hearthis.com).
Also, what Dana said (it was you, right?), if you're serious about your music, try to be present on _all_ the online services (..and *gnarr* that probably also includes Spotify...).

Last but not least, people love stage presence and meeting you in person. Also use that opportunity to sell some merchandise.
Old 29th April 2018
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
There certainly was Photoshop in 1988. It was just an analogy though, but yeah, if we're being more precise then you should probably read it as 1998. The content of the analogy still stands regardless of what year you


And you can't do that today, because...?


I'm pretty sure you'll find that people still pay for music else there'd be no record companies to speak of and there wouldn't be $Billions/year revenues. Perhaps they don't buy music in the same way, but they buy it alright:

Digital Music Industry - Statistics & Facts

In Shift to Streaming, Music Business Has Lost Billions - The New York Times
Old 29th April 2018
  #125
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pichi View Post
Spotify might be getting paid, but musicians? Not so much.
I would not claim that all contributors are being paid for what they contribute. Clearly that is not true.

But as I said before, that's not mutually exclusive with the statement that the music industry is paying out more money to artists than ever before.

This takes some wrapping your head around. More people than ever - enabled as they are by contemporary digital tech - are creating recorded music products than ever before, and most of them are not seeing any serious financial rewards. It is depressing to know you're swamped by this noise blanket, yes (just like everyone else).

But at the same time, there is a larger pool of successful independent artists. The major labels, recovering (very successfully) from the setbacks of the early 2000s, have been able to reformulate their business so where they used to have to foster upcoming artists, they now pass on that cost and risk to independents (those very people who haven't had to take a $10k financial risk just to make their first recording, because they now have laptops). They only take on those who are already showing promise - this is not the way the majors used to operate. But the uptake of these aritsts is, apparently, at a more rapid pace than ever before (there's a larger pool of them), and the money is there for those artists who have, in a sense, already made it.

There's more supply, but there is also more demand, and there is also more varied channels. It's a complex situation to be sure. There are many, many more people enabled to make music recordings, and most of these do not make money (partly because they haven't had years of fostering by a label). But, as always, there is a minority who are benefiting well, and that group is also larger - the world is quite simply a bigger place.

I'm not saying the situation is better or worse. And the realities have very clearly shifted. But it is inaccurate to say "meh, there's no money in music."
Old 29th April 2018
  #126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pichi View Post
Spotify might be getting paid, but musicians? Not so much. It seems to me there are only 2 choices. Either you aim for pop stardom and just maybe you break into the top 10% of earners and make a living or you stick with your day job, music related or not, and do music as a hobby, don't worry about the money.
If you do music that isn't pop you may as well forget about the money. The point of getting heard on student radio in the '80s was that you had a chance at making it as an indie act. Think Sonic Youth. You could still try these days but good luck making it more than a couple of years as just a live act because there won't be much if any income coming from music sales.
And if spending all your time on social media is what it takes these days then why bother? In the end that's no different than having a day job and doing music in your spare time.
Just some thoughts anyway. Always interested to hear different opinions.
Agreed. SM is a nice feature but the fact that the overall market has diminished with most of what is made in the hands of Spotify (for example) is a huge problem now.
Old 29th April 2018
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
I would not claim that all contributors are being paid for what they contribute. Clearly that is not true.

But as I said before, that's not mutually exclusive with the statement that the music industry is paying out more money to artists than ever before.

This takes some wrapping your head around. More people than ever - enabled as they are by contemporary digital tech - are creating recorded music products than ever before, and most of them are not seeing any serious financial rewards. It is depressing to know you're swamped by this noise blanket, yes (just like everyone else).

But at the same time, there is a larger pool of successful independent artists. The major labels, recovering (very successfully) from the setbacks of the early 2000s, have been able to reformulate their business so where they used to have to foster upcoming artists, they now pass on that cost and risk to independents (those very people who haven't had to take a $10k financial risk just to make their first recording, because they now have laptops). They only take on those who are already showing promise - this is not the way the majors used to operate. But the uptake of these aritsts is, apparently, at a more rapid pace than ever before (there's a larger pool of them), and the money is there for those artists who have, in a sense, already made it.

There's more supply, but there is also more demand, and there is also more varied channels. It's a complex situation to be sure. There are many, many more people enabled to make music recordings, and most of these do not make money (partly because they haven't had years of fostering by a label). But, as always, there is a minority who are benefiting well, and that group is also larger - the world is quite simply a bigger place.

I'm not saying the situation is better or worse. And the realities have very clearly shifted. But it is inaccurate to say "meh, there's no money in music."
Good info and appreciated, it’s true the digital market has increased, but the entire pie has shrunk. No easy answers except to support independent labels vs. Spotify IMHO..
Old 29th April 2018
  #128
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thevegasnerve View Post
but the entire pie has shrunk.
It's more like this: The pie is bigger, and still growing. There are more people getting pie. But there are also many, many more people asking for pie. More people are not getting pie (or getting ridiculously small slices). It's much less expensive and less risky to be in a position to ask for pie than ever before, and so more people are asking for pie, there are more people noticing when they don't get the pie, and so more people complaining about missing out on pie.

Old 29th April 2018
  #129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
It's more like this: The pie is bigger, and still growing. There are more people getting pie. But there are also many, many more people asking for pie. More people are not getting pie. It's much less expensive and less risky to be in a position to ask for pie than ever before, and so more people are asking for pie, there are more people noticing when they don't get the pie, and so more people complaining about missing out on pie.

The pie is only larger for digital sales, not overall sales in the industry. Read The NY Times article I linked. Your other points I agree with number of individuals trying to be involved. I don’t think this is a good model personally, but it’s here.
Old 29th April 2018
  #130
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markodarko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 View Post
I boycott Spotify. The devaluation of music disgusts me. 3 million views / plays per months earn you as much as if you were living on social welfare (in the eu). No, thanks!
Good post. I also boycott Spotify for the reasons you stated but the other reason I favour YouTube over Spotify as a marketing tool is that it's visual. The listener has an opportunity to read something about buying a full / hi-res version of the piece of music they're currently listening to - either on the video itself or in the description. On Spotify there's no such connection.

That visual connection is of course also available on your own website or on Bandcamp, but Spotfiy... Evil be there.
Old 29th April 2018
  #131
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
The listener has an opportunity to read something about buying a full / hi-res version of the piece of music they're currently listening to - either on the video itself or in the description. On Spotify there's no such connection.
exactly !

..and this is not a beyond-any-hope situation: On the off-chance that Spotify is reading this: Please stream meta-info (i.e. URLs) along-side the tracks and display that in your player !
Old 30th April 2018
  #132
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thevegasnerve View Post
The pie is only larger for digital sales, not overall sales in the industry. Read The NY Times article I linked. Your other points I agree with number of individuals trying to be involved. I don’t think this is a good model personally, but it’s here.
This doesn't give a full picture though. I don't want to get too bogged down, but there is more to consider:

CD sales in the late 90s and very early 2000s peaked at unprecedented levels. This follows a pattern of uptake and decline which is observable for the last 60 years. Some time after the introduction of a new medium, there is a hump in sales in that medium. This has traditionally suited the recording industry because it means they an resell existing music - it follows a predictable pattern. The humps have gradually been getting larger since the 1950s, and the troughs haven't tended to sink as low. In other words, with its ups and downs factored in, music sales (all told) have gradually increased over the last half century. Record companies panicked around 2000, because the growth of CD sales prior to 2000 represented an unprecedented upward climb, and the fall after it seemed apocalyptic. But the graph from the NY times that you link shows a downward motion of one medium as it is replaced by another; in historical terms this is predictable. Our current "trough" is still a larger market than the peak of the late 80s and early 90s, when cassettes peaked (and shortly after there was another brief trough with the transition to CDs. Though CDs may have hit extraordinary heights (ie the so called bubble), there's no reason (as yet) to think that the upward march of new media is about to plateau. If it doesn't, we're still following the gradual upward trend of the last 60 years.
This is probably just because of population growth and tech enabled consumption. It does not mean that proportionally, those of us contributing original music are benefiting more - that's a wholly different matter.

[p.s. I'm not a fan of pathological economic growth, and no, I don't think the gradual growing of the market will continue on forever. There are all sorts of reasons why the bottom could fall out of it at any time, but that is the same for any industry in the Western world. If you really want to start worrying about what the future holds for this and every successful Western industry, look no further than Global Warming. . . ]
Old 30th April 2018
  #133
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

And another thing. . . without wanting to get to conspiratorial, there have been several academic articles published which explain why it suits the RIAA to exaggerate the problems it faces with the decline of physical media. The graph in the NY Times is supplied by the RIAA. It's worth noting that other organisations have produced varying data. I'm not at all suggesting that the sharp decline of physical media didn't represent a slump for the industry; but how much of a concern this is has been, so some have said, exaggerated.
Old 30th April 2018
  #134
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Also, we're just talking about the market. There's a lot more to it than just this. For example, there's what's been called "disintermediation." This means the removal of intermediaries (cost of manufacture, transport, etc), thanks to digital methods, though this doesn't directly affect artists' royalties. Moreover there is the way that the record industry has change the way it deals with artists, no longer investing in them from the ground up - that risk has been passed on to the artists themselves, who in turn face less immediate barriers in entering the field thanks to digital tech (e.g. you don't need to save up $10k to record an album). So with the transition to a new media there are visible losses, but less visible gains for the industry. Every technological shift presents a double edged sword, or more accurately, an extremely complex situation where it's never quite clear who has won and who has lost.
Old 30th April 2018
  #135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Also, we're just talking about the market. There's a lot more to it than just this. For example, there's what's been called "disintermediation." This means the removal of intermediaries (cost of manufacture, transport, etc), thanks to digital methods, though this doesn't directly affect artists' royalties. Moreover there is the way that the record industry has change the way it deals with artists, no longer investing in them from the ground up - that risk has been passed on to the artists themselves, who in turn face less immediate barriers in entering the field thanks to digital tech (e.g. you don't need to save up $10k to record an album). So with the transition to a new media there are visible losses, but less visible gains for the industry. Every technological shift presents a double edged sword, or more accurately, an extremely complex situation where it's never quite clear who has won and who has lost.
Good points, I always believe we must live in the moment (embrace the new technology) but understand the past too. It’s an interesting time for sure.
Old 4th May 2018
  #136
Deleted User
Guest
good afternoon my friends,

i am glad to know that my first post regarding uploading my music on line brought too many replies

i really thank everyone who replied

dear markodarko, i agree with you with all that you have posted and yes things have changed a lot especially after 2000

always i was trying to stand on my own feet but i have to change that soon...

i am old enough to understand that music business have changed a lot from early eighties when i was starting

i doubt if i can sell my own music at numbers that will give me any good salary so the only way to survive is to record third party projects something that i am doing for a couples of years now

i will try again youtube and hearatthis.at as soon as i have something good to upload

thanks for all
Old 6th May 2018
  #137
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midiquestions's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
I would not claim that all contributors are being paid for what they contribute. Clearly that is not true.

But as I said before, that's not mutually exclusive with the statement that the music industry is paying out more money to artists than ever before.

This takes some wrapping your head around. More people than ever - enabled as they are by contemporary digital tech - are creating recorded music products than ever before, and most of them are not seeing any serious financial rewards. It is depressing to know you're swamped by this noise blanket, yes (just like everyone else).

But at the same time, there is a larger pool of successful independent artists. The major labels, recovering (very successfully) from the setbacks of the early 2000s, have been able to reformulate their business so where they used to have to foster upcoming artists, they now pass on that cost and risk to independents (those very people who haven't had to take a $10k financial risk just to make their first recording, because they now have laptops). They only take on those who are already showing promise - this is not the way the majors used to operate. But the uptake of these aritsts is, apparently, at a more rapid pace than ever before (there's a larger pool of them), and the money is there for those artists who have, in a sense, already made it.

There's more supply, but there is also more demand, and there is also more varied channels. It's a complex situation to be sure. There are many, many more people enabled to make music recordings, and most of these do not make money (partly because they haven't had years of fostering by a label). But, as always, there is a minority who are benefiting well, and that group is also larger - the world is quite simply a bigger place.

I'm not saying the situation is better or worse. And the realities have very clearly shifted. But it is inaccurate to say "meh, there's no money in music."
So do you have any actual financial stats to back this up? You are posting a ton in defense of the status quo, but I'm not seeing data.
Old 6th May 2018
  #138
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midiquestions View Post
So do you have any actual financial stats to back this up? You are posting a ton in defense of the status quo, but I'm not seeing data.
People have written papers about this stuff. I've read them - that's nothing extraordinary. Go find it yourself. It's easy to find. You can take what I say or leave it - it's the internet. Up to you.
Old 7th May 2018
  #139
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Also, I'm not defending the status quo. I'm simply clarifying the present situation by offering some facts. If all we had to go on was the testament of people on the internet who had not made any money out of the music industry, then the situation would certainly be skewed in its representation.
Old 8th May 2018
  #140
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 View Post
[*] youtube.com - The most popular music archive. Good "AI" based recommendation system that is great for discovering new music. Please upload all your releases there (in lower quality so ppl have an incentive to buy the HQ version). And don't forget to include a bandcamp link in the video description.
.

Hmm, I think the AI recommendation is very horrible nowadays. It was much better a few years ago, nowadays it's like 50% of the recommendations are videos I've watched very recently, the other 50% being videos that are like the most well-known examples of the genre (or other songs by the same artist). It's very rare to get a recommendation that would be interesting to someone who knows the basic tracks of the genre already.
Old 8th May 2018
  #141
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
Hmm, I think the AI recommendation is very horrible nowadays. It was much better a few years ago, nowadays it's like 50% of the recommendations are videos I've watched very recently, the other 50% being videos that are like the most well-known examples of the genre (or other songs by the same artist). It's very rare to get a recommendation that would be interesting to someone who knows the basic tracks of the genre already.
Maybe I just wrote that b/c the day before I fed YT with search requests all day long and accidentally left it running over night.
When I woke up the next day, YT was playing some wonderful IDM albums I had never heard of before (some of which I bought at BC shortly after) :-)
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