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Roland TR8S - Drum machine with individual outs and sampling.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2491
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Is the sample rate and stereo to mono conversion also possible with VLC?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emos Eno View Post
At the beginning drum sounds are mono, as each one occupy a specific place in the stereo spectrum. When you add them all up you get a full drum kit. In some cases you can have a stereo mix of the room to blend with the final sound.

Then comes the business in sample libraries, where adding gigabytes and having fancy stereo effects is a marketing bonus.
That's actually not true.
You hear with two ears. So even if a snare drum has a single mic, if you were in the room you'd hear it somewhat stereo.
With the TR8s you can add any sample right? So if you had acoustic drum samples with real ambience (stereo) it would neither be 'fake' if it was stereo, or better in mono.
With the regards to Roland, I had this discussion with them when working on the sound library for the TM6 Pro trigger module (coming soon). As it was mainly an acoustic drum library I stated that the samples had to have stereo outputs, which Roland made happen.
But even when making electronic sounds for the library, some of them need to be stereo. If you don't have character hardware reverbs, or stereo Eurorack modules, which I used in making the electronic sounds for the TM6, you can't reproduce those sounds in mono, then adding your own fx.
So, I think it's best to have mono AND stereo capability in modern drum machines and samplers. then the user can choose. You choose mono, that's fine. But if i wanted to add a kick drum recorded in a wooden room, to the TR8s 909 kick, it would be better if my sample was stereo, not mono with a fake reverb added.
When I made stereo drum sounds for the TM6, it was because I was using some weird/interesting stereo processing from my modular system, or I was mixing down some acoustic drums recorded in a nice room. It was absolutely NOT a 'marketing bonus'. In that regard you really don't know what you are talking about.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2493
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What is everyone using for samples that so many need to be converted?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2494
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i still don't understand it TR8s support stereo samples or not?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psoul View Post
i still don't understand it TR8s support stereo samples or not?
Yes it does.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pechnatunk View Post
I can't find the Midi Implementation for this online.
Can someone confirm if course tune for each sound gets output as a CC?
Or at least - if the Control knob for each sound does?
On this page. CTRL knobs of each sound do output MIDI CCs.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2497
WDM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
But even when making electronic sounds for the library, some of them need to be stereo. If you don't have character hardware reverbs, or stereo Eurorack modules, which I used in making the electronic sounds for the TM6, you can't reproduce those sounds in mono, then adding your own fx.
But the point is: TR8S is your library.

TR8S has built-in tone shaping capability even before applying onboard FX. You can build your own Kit, you can combine different drum hit samples from different Kits, or layer it, and you can build your own Room Ambience, right there.

So, why waste the precious sampling space on stereo drum hit samples that have someone's else signature reverbs and other stuff, taken from possibly different sound libraries and for different purpose, if you have your own "library in the box", at your fingertips?

That's why for TR8S, you need dry drum hit samples in mono. That will give you maximum flexibly. So, from the same few samples you can build any Kit later (in stereo) that fits your purpose for the particular project.

If you want to work with the whole drum kit, prerecorded 4 bar loop for example, and use it as a base for your track, that's the completely different story. TR8S supports stereo samples as well. That would be a perfectly reasonable too (for that purpose).

Overall, It seems like TR8S is very flexible. One can use any method, whatever is required.

It's just so many of us spoiled with those gigantic Sample loop libraries available everywhere these days, and that makes it so hard to push ourselves "back to basics".
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2498
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I took about 150 samples and put them onto the TR. That took about 10 minutes. Its not necessary to categorize, to rename or to batch convert to certain resolutions.

So far i have no idea why i should bother doing these things.

Old 2nd April 2018
  #2499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
So, why waste the precious sampling space on stereo drum hit samples that have someone's else signature reverbs and other stuff, taken from possibly different sound libraries and for different purpose, if you have your own "library in the box", at your fingertips?
People pay good money for good production ready libraries. So stereo samples totally make sense to me.

I wouldnt want to do the same basic things over and over again.
I want a fat stereo snare clap regularly at my disposal?
You bet i dont waste my precious time for some RAM. In it goes.

If its full i prioritize and kick something else out.

I dont see the point of having hundreds of options for every sound anyways.

That being said. I plan to get rid of these tiresome techno synth samples. Does anyone have a good argument why i shouldnt do this?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
On this page. CTRL knobs of each sound do output MIDI CCs.
Great thanks, I should have tried that googling just kept bringing up the tr8 midi imp.

I guess what I meant to ask though - is if motion sequencing of CTRL parameters outputs midi CC changes, or if it is just knob movements.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdesign75 View Post
Okay thanks, I’ll give it ago. What’s the mistake I should avoid? LOL
I forget, but I'm sure you'll figure it out by yourself
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
On this page. CTRL knobs of each sound do output MIDI CCs.
Does it output note on AND off? And do the other knobs also send midi? Can the cc number be configured? Ie how is it to use this as a control surface for a rack sampler?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innovine View Post
Does it output note on AND off? And do the other knobs also send midi? Can the cc number be configured? Ie how is it to use this as a control surface for a rack sampler?
You never opened the link you quoted, did you?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
That's actually not true.
You hear with two ears. So even if a snare drum has a single mic, if you were in the room you'd hear it somewhat stereo..
Well, to be really exact, the room doesn't even matter here. A snare has a top head, which you strike, and a bottom head which resonates in sympathy and hits the snares. The sound comes from both ends, so it is in stereo even before the sound waves hit the room walls and reflects into any number of ears and mics.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
You never opened the link you quoted, did you?
No, it is difficult on my phone. A yes or no answer would be fine and appreciated.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innovine View Post
No, it is difficult on my phone.
Fair enough.

1. yes
2. yes - all rotary pots do actually. even ext n, reverb etc.
3. no - at least i didnt find it.
4. Didnt try, but seems easy enough to setup if said sampler has a midi learn mode.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innovine View Post
Well, to be really exact, the room doesn't even matter here. A snare has a top head, which you strike, and a bottom head which resonates in sympathy and hits the snares. The sound comes from both ends, so it is in stereo even before the sound waves hit the room walls and reflects into any number of ears and mics.
Only if you turn your head sideways.

I love that you’re telling chrisso how a snare drum is constructed.

So what’s the issue here? It loads stereo files, so is the disappointment in the thread about available memory?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innovine View Post
Does it output note on AND off? And do the other knobs also send midi? Can the cc number be configured? Ie how is it to use this as a control surface for a rack sampler?
Yeah - more or less every knob sends CC.

So yeah you could easily use this as a control surface.

More importantly for me - if motion sequenced controls gets sent via CC - it's a pretty easy Max4Live patch to turn this into an 11 track melodic midi sequencer.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2509
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
So, why waste the precious sampling space on stereo drum hit samples that have someone's else signature reverbs and other stuff, taken from possibly different sound libraries and for different purpose, if you have your own "library in the box", at your fingertips?

That's why for TR8S, you need dry drum hit samples in mono.
Nah. There are many reasons to include your own stereo samples.
As I said, if I want to layer a room sound behind a 909 kick. It sounds nothing like the onboard FX.
If I want to add an old spring reverb to one of the snares or claps. If I want to add a stereo sample with some weirdness from my modular system.
Making a rule of mono-only takes away half of the potential of the machine.
Drum sounds take up very little space actually. So you can import a lot, and in stereo.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2510
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
So what’s the issue here? It loads stereo files, so is the disappointment in the thread about available memory?
I dunno.
Going back a page or so, a couple of people are converting their own samples to mono to save on sample memory. That's fine if you just have dry drum hits. I would never replace a unique ambience with a TR8s onboard effect though.
One great way to use the sample import is to import weird ambiences, or acoustic sounds. Why bother importing more xOx sounds?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I dunno.
Going back a page or so, a couple of people are converting their own samples to mono to save on sample memory. That's fine if you just have dry drum hits. I would never replace a unique ambience with a TR8s onboard effect though.
One great way to use the sample import is to import weird ambiences, or acoustic sounds. Why bother importing more xOx sounds?
I currently use a Korg esx-1 for sampling. The reverb in that machine is pretty dire so I’ve pre-processed many of my snare and clap samples with better quality stereo reverb. I also use a lot of found sounds recorded with my portable stereo recorder, so I’m impressed that stereo sample import is included with the tr-8s.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2512
WDM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innovine View Post
Well, to be really exact, the room doesn't even matter here. A snare has a top head, which you strike, and a bottom head which resonates in sympathy and hits the snares. The sound comes from both ends, so it is in stereo even before the sound waves hit the room walls and reflects into any number of ears and mics.
No, it's not a "stereo".

It would be two waves within small proximity and phasing issues to the listener, which is to say a problematic for the recording in the first place.

Stereo by definition is a recorded sound coming out of the two or more speakers.

That said, the snare's top head and bottom head could be recorded separately by two different mics, not because it should be in stereo, but to have an option to better control the overall mix of two as a one desired snare hit.

You don't hear snare's batter head from the left speaker and resonant head with snares from the right speaker, do you?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2513
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Can someone explain the update process some more? If I read it correctly from the Roland website when updating the FW it wipes of the things you have stored? so you have to make a backup first and then reload the back up after you have done the update. Is that correct?

It's a bit frighting that updating erases the things you have stored. What if the backup doesn't load back in correctly or something? Don't want to risk loosing the things I have worked on for a long time.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2514
WDM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
As I said, if I want to layer a room sound behind a 909 kick. It sounds nothing like the onboard FX.
You can definitely do that if that's your goal or desired sound for a particular project.

But the room sound is usually recorded separately from the rest of the kit, so you can add it back to overall drum kit submix to make it sound more natural and more like a single instrument (drum kit) within one space.

Taking a Kick with printed FX on it from one room (in stereo), combining it with the snare with printed FX from another room (in stereo) in one Kit for example, will make two different rooms (spaces) potentially clashing in one current stereo field, because the snare will sound like in the back of the room, and your kick would sound "in your face" right in front of you, like fifteen feet away from snare.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2515
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Just jammed for about 2 hrs after opening the box. Pretty happy I upgraded from tr8. Basic function workflow is still really fast. Some of the effects are surprisingly good. Minor things I don’t like- the freakin green is still inescapable, I wish the instrument buttons were recessed so I could slide across them rather than press them, sound quality is still not analogue and still not hifi either but in between
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2516
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post

Taking a Kick with printed FX on it from one room (in stereo), combining it with the snare with printed FX from another room (in stereo) in one Kit for example, will make two different rooms (spaces) potentially clashing in one current stereo field, because the snare will sound like in the back of the room, and your kick would sound "in your face" right in front of you, like fifteen feet away from snare.
That's the beauty of electronic music - there are no rules.
You're not trying to make a realistic sounding acoustic kit with the TR8s. There are much better bits of gear to do that.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Why bother importing more xOx sounds?
Because it would give you the ability to swap out the "not so good ACB sounds" (only the ones you don't like) and replace them with samples you think sound better. I've probably mentioned this a million times in previous posts already, but for me, the tone of the ACB 808 hats and cymbals "ain't hittin' it." The sample import feature of the TR-8S would give me the ability to "improve" the sound of the machine's 808 hats by substituting the ACB hats and cymbal for ones I think have a much better tone in the form of samples. That way I could use my favorite samples along with the good ACB tones to give me my perfect 808 tailored to me.

That's just one example. This can be 808/909/606/707/etc.... The user can customize the machine to his/her taste and still have the analog modeling there to make it much more than just a static sounding sample player.

BTW, I've heard some not-so-good sounding original 808s (my opinion of course) as well as some really good sounding ones. Everyone has their own taste when it comes to tone, which is why it's so subjective. One may also want to import additional xOx samples to add some tone variation to the kits. So yeah, I think importing more xOx sounds make since from that perspective.

Last edited by kvmoore; 2nd April 2018 at 08:44 PM..
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2518
Well if you did that for more than a couple of the onboard sounds, it wouldn't be worth buying the unit. You'd be better off with a step sequencer/sampler.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Well if you did that for more than a couple of the onboard sounds, it wouldn't be worth buying the unit. You'd be better off with a step sequencer/sampler.
Agreed. The rest of the onboard sounds are good. Just the hats I mentioned are the only thing I don't like.

The small sample RAM is just enough for a few substitutes, which is just fine.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #2520
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this looks amazing.. I have the TR8 and this has a lot of good features. Very good..
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