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Roland TR8S - Drum machine with individual outs and sampling. Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 12th July 2018
  #3361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
so does SF say that this loop is exactly 120 bpm (for example)? i don't use time-stretch or warping, don't want any of that. just "pitch-stretch", though that's what i'm trying to avoid doing inside the TR-8S.
Yes, if you trim the loop start/stop points to what it measures as 120.000 bpm. It’s just math to how it measures the tempo. 1 minute is 1 minute on any device, so 1 BPM is always 1 beat per 60 seconds. Computers are good clocks and good at measuring time. Even a clock on an old digital drum machine from the eighties is going to be pretty accurate. It’s just code along with a simple processor.

I personally prefer time stretch over tune when you only need to correct the timing by very little. You won’t even notice any aliasing. You shouldn’t notice anything with pitch tune either if you are only make a very small adjustment, but time stretch will not alter the pitch at all. I will use pitch tuning if I intentionally want the pitch to change, as well as the timing. It has its creative usefulness as well.
Old 12th July 2018
  #3362
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jbuonacc's Avatar
do you have time-stretch on in SF when you're doing this?


you've got me curious now though... i'm going to try cropping some loops from old hardware recordings that i have, to see how they measure up. i don't have tempos noted for anything, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what it was set at originally. i'll be damned if ANY of them sync up perfectly to the BPM in Ableton.

Last edited by jbuonacc; 12th July 2018 at 05:13 AM..
Old 12th July 2018
  #3363
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammy GS1 View Post
Owners of a real TR-606: Does the TR-8/S 606 ACB open hihat choke sound anything like the real thing? ...
how about recording some 606/110 patterns playing straight from their internal sequencers and load those into the TR-8S? the sound and feel of the original, as easy as that. the loop could be gated and/or re-triggered at certain points to create new rhythms from the original (pretty simple old trick, but it can work pretty well).
Old 12th July 2018
  #3364
Gear Addict
 

If you render, 120 should be 120. If you record live, there may be some jitter. But if you then correct this in ableton or any other sound editor, and render it again, it should be exactly 120 again.
Old 12th July 2018
  #3365
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Bodde's Avatar
 

Two question for the TR8S owners:

1) When you press a step and hold it for a second some steps get a yellow light.
I think these are the steps that contain motion data? or what does it mean when they are yellow?

2) How do get rid of those yellow steps?
In other words can you also erase the motion data for a specific step in a track? I know how you erase motion data from a specific knob or whole track. But I don't want to delete the motion data from the whole track just from some steps. Is that possible?

I can't find it anywhere in the manual?
Old 12th July 2018
  #3366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodde View Post
Two question for the TR8S owners:

1) When you press a step and hold it for a second some steps get a yellow light.
I think these are the steps that contain motion data? or what does it mean when they are yellow?

2) How do get rid of those yellow steps?
In other words can you also erase the motion data for a specific step in a track? I know how you erase motion data from a specific knob or whole track. But I don't want to delete the motion data from the whole track just from some steps. Is that possible?

I can't find it anywhere in the manual?
1) Yellow steps are parameters "specific" for this step (tune, decay, CTRL, velocity, ...). You can (for example) switch from tune to decay by pushing COPY/UTILITY (while keeping pushing the step) and adjust the step parameter with the knob.
2) push the step + CLEAR
Old 12th July 2018
  #3367
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
do you have time-stretch on in SF when you're doing this?
No, that is not how Sound Forge works. SF is just a wave editor. Time Stretch is a processing tool, like a plugin. You don't turn it on/off within the editor, you apply it to the wave/file.

TBH, I may be wrong on how the Time Stretch plugin works, anyways. I haven't used it within SF in a long time. I know you can use to hard set the tempo of your wave. I just don't remember exactly how it works. I will check it out again next time I have the chance. Like I said, when I create loops, I just record them at the tempo I want and then use Sound Forge to trim the start/end points. I've never had to do any more processing to get the loop length to fall in-line with the tempo of my project.
Old 12th July 2018
  #3368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xox View Post
Roland needs to add the option to:
- set up individual outputs globally
This 1000 x’s!
Old 13th July 2018
  #3369
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
Yes, if you trim the loop start/stop points to what it measures as 120.000 bpm. It’s just math to how it measures the tempo. 1 minute is 1 minute on any device, so 1 BPM is always 1 beat per 60 seconds. Computers are good clocks and good at measuring time. Even a clock on an old digital drum machine from the eighties is going to be pretty accurate. It’s just code along with a simple processor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
If you render, 120 should be 120. If you record live, there may be some jitter. But if you then correct this in ableton or any other sound editor, and render it again, it should be exactly 120 again.
ok... the replacement TR-8S arrived earlier (along with a TR-08 to sync up to it) and i was able to test this out. just as i suspected, 120 BPM in Ableton does not equal 120 BPM on the TR-8S. actually, the tempo that i used in Ableton was 128. i had to set the internal BPM of the TR-8S at 127.6 to get the recordings to loop perfectly on that.

at first i thought it was dead-on at 128, but then i started sending the signal to the delay. started adjusting the BPM in smaller increments using [SHIFT] and it was around 127.5 when it finally locked perfectly into that "galloping" dotted 8th note delay. at 127 you could feel the gap, and back up to 128 you could now feel that it was rushing just the slightest bit. played with it more for a bit and felt that 127.6 BPM was as good as i was going to get. anywhere around there (127-128.5 maybe?) could be useful for introducing a little "slop" or "groove" as it plays against the internal pattern, especially if the Decay is not up all the way.

this should be no surprise really, this is why MIDI sync clock exists. if it was "just math" and all clocks were created equal then these devices would just be sending start/stop to each other.


haven't tried yet to figure out what BPM i need to set Ableton at to get it to work right on the TR-8S, which is what i was asking. i don't want to be adjusting after import if i can help it. i guess? i'm not sure why it matters as long as i've got it settled. it's probably better if i do it on the TR-8S actually, now that i think about it. i'll post more as i go. i would have some recordings, but this new one isn't acting as well as the other one with the USB audio. ended up disconnecting it, the audio from Ableton and Windows sounds distorted when using the Boost on the outputs. also, seems like the volume of the TR-8S in quite a bit lower in comparison. haven't tried screwing with it yet. bummed, the other one worked great with the USB audio.

tried running an electric guitar into it tonight, sounds pretty good after boosting the Gain on the Input (Kit Edit menu?). nice round cleans, all the way to the nastiest "torn speaker" *** you've ever heard when pushing the Master FX with the drums. you don't even need an amp (in a pinch, i guess... or not? i think it sounds awesome). i've got a little MOTU Hi-Z box that i use with Maschine MK3, i should try that on this to see if it cleans up the signal or what.
Old 13th July 2018
  #3370
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I'm shocked there can be that much variation in BPMs
Old 13th July 2018
  #3371
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x View Post
I'm shocked there can be that much variation in BPMs
I wouldnt be surprised if next time the experiment gets repeated its 127.8 or 128.5 ... Computer clocks are not very reliable.
Old 13th July 2018
  #3372
I am curious to know exactly how the recording is being exported and what the file looks like under a microscope (with a wave editor). The DAW export may be adding extra time that needs to be truncated, or something. I don't know, just a guess. I find it strange that your DAW tempo is that far off from the TR-8S. They should both be measuring time in milliseconds. I probably guarantee that Ableton is, and I would be surprised if the TR-8S does not itself, but it is certainly possible.

I have never tried creating a loop by exporting from a DAW poject. I have always recorded the audio and then edit it to get my start/end points.

So for example on my method, I will simply record 2-3 repeats of the single pattern into Sound Forge. Then I set a marker at the start point and another marker at the start of the next loop of the pattern. More specifically, I zoom into the wave about as far as I can and mark the exact point where the pattern starts again, given that there is a sound there as a point of reference, like a 4/4 kick drum. If my loop doesn't start with any sound, I just add a short click sound at the start of the pattern before I record the original and then "mute" it after I create my loop. Anyways, I take what is between the two markers, crop it and then I have my loop. If I recorded the original pattern at 120 bpm, my loop has always played fine when I import into a sampler and sequence it at the same 120 bpm tempo. I've been using this method for many years, going back to when I was using my MPC and Akai samplers.
Old 13th July 2018
  #3373
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x View Post
I'm shocked there can be that much variation in BPMs
i'm shocked that any of this is news to you guys. again, why do you think we need MIDI sync, etc? there's really not "that much" variation (not even variation, but difference), like i said i barely noticed it at first. if i hadn't suspected any of this going into it i probably wouldn't have even thought about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
I wouldnt be surprised if next time the experiment gets repeated its 127.8 or 128.5 ... Computer clocks are not very reliable.
that's a thought... i just imported them back into Ableton on my old Windows 7 PC (without any .asd reference files) and they all show exactly 128.0 BPM in the Sample window "Seg. BPM" box (which is generally pretty specific). if these loop correctly on another PC here and (obviously, people have been doing this for years) on anyone else's Ableton rig, i think it has to do more with how Ableton keeps time rather than the individual computer. if "computer clocks are not very reliable" then we wouldn't be able to share files like this. (never really thought about that much, but i'd be hesitant to go blaming the computer from now on.) there is no "drift" or "slop", just that Ableton is running just a bit "slower" than the TR-8S (i'm guessing this would happen the same on an MPC or any other sampler with a built-in sequencer).

i'll keep an eye out for this in the future though, really curious to see the results once i start chopping/looping other recordings by hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
I am curious to know exactly how the recording is being exported and what the file looks like under a microscope (with a wave editor). The DAW export may be adding extra time that needs to be truncated, or something. I don't know, just a guess. I find it strange that your DAW tempo is that far off from the TR-8S. They should both be measuring time in milliseconds. I probably guarantee that Ableton is, and I would be surprised if the TR-8S does not itself, but it is certainly possible.

I have never tried creating a loop by exporting from a DAW poject. I have always recorded the audio and then edit it to get my start/end points.
for this what i did (and plan to do generally) was had a few tracks going in Ableton, solo'd each of them and "re-sampled" to an empty Audio track. this allows you to record perfectly cut 1-bar (or whatever length) loops automatically. really no room for error or anything, seems to work perfectly well. there's several ways to do this inside Ableton, might try to freeze/flatten to see if there's any difference.

of course these both measure in milliseconds, but each has it's own internal timing clock. all pocket watches "measure in seconds/milliseconds", but they'll drift after some time because they're not exactly the same in how they generate this timing (not because they're not "started" at the same time).

Quote:
... So for example on my method, I will simply record 2-3 repeats of the single pattern into Sound Forge. Then I set a marker at the start point and another marker at the start of the next loop of the pattern. More specifically...
actually, it doesn't matter if i'm using a perfectly looped sample, whether i've cut the end of it, or even if there's some empty time at the start (a few milliseconds, not perfectly trimmed to the start of the kick or whatever). the timing of each is what it is. it's not like an old funk loop where the timing is pushing/pulling all over, one just gradually goes out of time with the other. this can be "corrected" only because the note events on the TR-8S aren't "set in stone" and can be "stretched" to match the slower tempo without impacting their pitch. if i was trying to sync recorded loops (at the same BPM) from each of them, one would have to be time-stretched or pitched down.

Quote:
... If I recorded the original pattern at 120 bpm, my loop has always played fine when I import into a sampler and sequence it at the same 120 bpm tempo. I've been using this method for many years, going back to when I was using my MPC and Akai samplers.
you might be surprised if you look closer at it. again, i thought it was pretty dead-on at 128 BPM when i started. if i hadn't been "looking" for anything, i probably would have been fine with it and never noticed. people have been making records like that for years. i'm just being difficult.

do you happen to have a few perfectly cut loops (whatever BPM, as long as you know what it's supposed to be) that you could upload? curious to see how they load up in Ableton, what it reports as their BPM.


really though, i'm not sure how this is any surprise. hit Start at the exact same time (or not, it doesn't matter) on any two hardware drum machines set to the same BPM. they might play in time for a bit, but they'll always drift. this is actually one of the uses for the TR-8S "nudge" function. we don't use MIDI just as a "remote Start control".
Old 14th July 2018
  #3374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
of course these both measure in milliseconds, but each has it's own internal timing clock. all pocket watches "measure in seconds/milliseconds", but they'll drift after some time because they're not exactly the same in how they generate this timing (not because they're not "started" at the same time.
A digital pocket watch shouldn’t drift. If it did, it would never be able to keep time. Such a clock is generated by logic, not hardware. A processor has its own internal clock, as it needs a clock to “drive” it, but that is pretty far disconnected from a software clock which is what your DAW has. If the processor’s clock (like a quartz crystal pulse clock) failed, the processor wouldn’t work. Yes, technically a software clock can be different between two applications, but the type of clock we are talking when it comes to BPM is a measurement of earth time (one minute). That measurement is global. Now software can use any divider of 1 second as the base counter, such as nanoseconds, microseconds, milliseconds, so yes, one that uses nanoseconds is going to be different than a clock rounding to milliseconds. Most music devices today probably use milliseconds, but it’s possible that some just round up to decisecond or even to the second, for example. That would certainly produce a difference in time.

I PM you a file to look at in Ableton.

EDIT: I just also want add as I mentioned before, every time you retrigger your loop, even if it is off by milliseconds relative to the sequencers clock, the loop basically resets. It won’t drift out of time as it plays multiple times along with the sequencer.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3375
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Catabolic's Avatar
 

This is from memory and wasn’t even done that thoroughly to begin with but ... I timed the TR-8S with MidiGal and clock was good for 80-90 bpm tempos. However once I went over some number in the one teens, it started getting noticeably worse according to MidiGal. FWIW. Too bad about that in 2018 if the finding holds up.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catabolic View Post
This is from memory and wasn’t even done that thoroughly to begin with but ... I timed the TR-8S with MidiGal and clock was good for 80-90 bpm tempos. However once I went over some number in the one teens, it started getting noticeably worse according to MidiGal. FWIW. Too bad about that in 2018 if the finding holds up.
Can certainly be a bug in the software or CPU load problem, which we cannot rule out. If the CPU cannot handle the load, you can certainly have issues with the software. A bug in the BPM generator code could also result with bad clock.

The conditions that I am talking about in my previous posts are that there are no processing load issues or bugs in code.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3377
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
A digital pocket watch shouldn’t drift. If it did, it would never be able to keep time. Such a clock is generated by logic, not hardware. A processor has its own internal clock, as it needs a clock to “drive” it, but that is pretty far disconnected from a software clock which is what your DAW has. If the processor’s clock (like a quartz crystal pulse clock) failed, the processor wouldn’t work. Yes, technically a software clock can be different between two applications, but the type of clock we are talking when it comes to BPM is a measurement of earth time (one minute). That measurement is global. Now software can use any divider of 1 second as the base counter, such as nanoseconds, microseconds, milliseconds, so yes, one that uses nanoseconds is going to be different than a clock rounding to milliseconds. Most music devices today probably use milliseconds, but it’s possible that some just round up to decisecond or even to the second, for example. That would certainly produce a difference in time.
you almost sound like you deal with this for a living. that scares me a bit. i completely understand what you're saying, but that's not how it really works. my alarm clock drifts over time from the clock on my microwave, and everything else. i'm not sure if even two of the same model Casio digital wristwatch would show the same time after a few months or however long. our phones and iPods all sync up because they're being told what time to display.

you guys are killing me. this is really basic stuff, that we've been dealing with every day for as long as we can remember.

Quote:
... I just also want add as I mentioned before, every time you retrigger your loop, even if it is off by milliseconds relative to the sequencers clock, the loop basically resets. It won’t drift out of time as it plays multiple times along with the sequencer.
of course, but it'll always be the same exact amount "out of time". that's why we don't notice it so much.

playing around with this again now with some newly recorded loops. same results, the phasing/flamming on the tempo-sync'd Delay makes it dead obvious. i'll get some recordings made, and try to post the loops for others to try if they want.

EDIT: here's the loops that i'm using for the new tests. the level is low, might need to normalize or up the Gain. (let me know if this link doesn't work.)

Dropbox - 128 BPM Ableton DX to TR-8S - Simplify your life


thanks for posting that loop. Ableton says it's 115.07 BPM.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3378
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Catabolic's Avatar
 

Ok, dug out the MidiGAL.

80 bpm-Tr8s , MG says 79.1 bpm (slow) with deviation 0.013% (very precise)
100 bpm-Tr8s, MG says 99.1 bpm with deviation 0.018% (very precise)
120 bpm-Tr8s, MG says 120.0 bpm with deviation 0.542% (not as precise, may be noticeable)
126 bpm-Tr8s, MG says 126.0 bpm with deviation 0.06% (precise) but sometimes precision gets worse
130 bpm-Tr8s, MG says 129.1 bpm sometimes and 130 others. with deviation varying...
150 bpm-Tr8s, MG says 150.0 bpm with deviation 1.51% (less stable)

Empty pattern so this is the best case scenario.

Last edited by Catabolic; 14th July 2018 at 05:15 PM..
Old 14th July 2018
  #3379
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
thanks for posting that loop. Ableton says it's 115.07 BPM.
115.07...that is not too bad trimming skills . So yep, that is why it plays just fine with my TR-8S set to 115.0.

Sure, seven 1/100ths BPM isn’t perfect, but it is not noticeable and even adds a bit of human feel to it lol. Seems like your method of recording loops is not reliable. A difference in multiple 1/10ths of a BPM is bad I guess. I recommend you use something like my method to trim your loops.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3380
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
115.07...that is not too bad trimming skills . So yep, that is why it plays just fine with my TR-8S set to 115.0.

Sure, seven 1/100ths second isn’t perfect, but it is not noticeable and even adds a bit of human feel to it lol. A difference in multiple 1/10ths of a second is bad. I recommend you use something like my method to trim your loops.
sorry man, are you saying that Ableton is "unreliable" in recording loops to the grid (internally, recording itself, not trying to sync anything)?

like i said, it has nothing to do with how the loops are trimmed. i could have a 4-bar loop being retriggered every four beats and it'd be the same. i could trim these recording by hand, their tempo is still going to be the same.

...and who's to say that you didn't cut the loop a little longer/shorter? every loop coming out of Ableton is exactly the same file size. like i said, there's really no way to do it "wrong".
Old 14th July 2018
  #3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
sorry man, are you saying that Ableton is "unreliable" in recording loops to the grid (internally, recording itself, not trying to sync anything)?

like i said, it has nothing to do with how the loops are trimmed. i could have a 4-bar loop being retriggered every four beats and it'd be the same. i could trim these recording by hand, their tempo is still going to be the same.

...and who's to say that you didn't cut the loop a little longer/shorter? every loop coming out of Ableton is exactly the same file size. like i said, there's really no way to do it "wrong".
Easy man, it was light hearted. No need to facepalm me everywhere. I was trying to offer you another method to record your loops. Do whatever works for you.

Edit: I understand what you are saying about the trimming, but trimming is important. Even if the tempo is dead on, your loop can still play out of time if the start point is not trimmed as close as possible

Last edited by BM0; 14th July 2018 at 02:13 AM..
Old 14th July 2018
  #3382
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
Easy man, it was light hearted. ...
same here, sorry. the facepalm usually doesn't come off that way.

Quote:
... I understand what you are saying about the trimming, but trimming is important. Even if the tempo is dead on, your loop can still play out of time if the start point is not trimmed as close as possible
oh, right on. of course. plenty of creative uses for this as well, which i'm sure you're aware of.


UPDATE: cripes, i don't know why i didn't think of this before. 1-bar loops don't really tell the whole story. i played the 4-bar loop posted above (re-triggered every bar inside the TR-8S) and noticed right away that the kick was flamming on the 1 every time it came around. set it to 128.0 and still the same. put it up to 128.2 and the kick flam/build-up was gone. tried it with a 2-bar loop from last night and it was the same.

what makes it a little hard to judge is that (even with Decay set to 255) the audio is always decreasing in volume. anything more than a 1-bar loop and you can hear that the start of the loop is louder when it triggers again. EDIT: i got around this by setting the Hold Time correctly (16/32/64 steps) inside INST EDIT.

right now i've got the 4-bar loop being re-triggered every two bars at 128.2 and it sounds good. at 128.0 you can hear that the kick is "louder", which means it isn't quite right. not sure how i ended up at 127.6 before, but testing a 1-bar loop with the tempo-sync'd Delay it still sounds right. maybe it's a bit like a guitar or oscillator detuning. you can't really tell which side of "right" that you're on (if it's sharp or flat) until it goes past a certain amount.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3383
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jbuonacc's Avatar
wanted to mention that the "performance pad" on this thing absolutely sucks (even when set to FIX). i get far better results just finger-drumming on one of the 16 buttons in INST PLAY mode (even with two fingers). is this the same type of pad that's on the Elektron RYTM? no wonder people hated those.

no way to record manual rolls? when switching to INST REC you lose the roll function.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3384
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
same here, sorry. the facepalm usually doesn't come off that way.
Understood. Anymore, it seems like most people use the facepalm in a demeaning way.

Quote:
what makes it a little hard to judge is that (even with Decay set to 255) the audio is always decreasing in volume. anything more than a 1-bar loop and you can hear that the start of the loop is louder when it triggers again. EDIT: i got around this by setting the Hold Time correctly (16/32/64 steps) inside INST EDIT.
Yeah, I ran into that as well when I started to import loops. I was like WTF? Why is it decaying when I have it set to 255? Then I found the Hold Mode. I actually wish the TR-8S had a mode to play the sample "as key held", like you get with a regular sampler, but the TR-8S isn't a sampler.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3385
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Catabolic's Avatar
 

Did the MidiGal one more time with the Berlin Flyover pattern. Pretty much same results so we can rule out CPU load. At lower bpm, TR-8S is very precise but too slow according to MidiGal. Average accuracy improves somewhere around 105 but at a cost of stability (deviation). At 150 the stability is not that great but it is 150 on average. Just posting this as a PSA. Make of it what you will.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3386
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catabolic View Post
Did the MidiGal one more time ...
i could almost swear that i hear this thing "hiccuping" every once in a while. here and there "out of the corner of my ear" when i have it playing in the background. maybe not, haven't heard it when i'm actually listening for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
...I PM you a file to look at in Ableton.
loaded this into the TR-8S earlier. at 115 BPM you can hear that kick flam/build-up that i was talking about, when triggering it every measure. i think it was at 115.4 that it stopped. if you only trigger it once every four measures it works itself out over time and loops ok at 115 (it is a 4-bar loop after all). maybe 115.1, not sure.

figured out how to get past this though. it's never going to be dead-on, especially when looping at 1-bar, 4-bar, etc... if it sounds good, but still has that overlapping transient when it loops around, set the Hold to 15.5 steps (for a 1-bar example, a half step short either way) and raise the Decay just enough so that it doesn't cut off at the end but mixes that final transient low enough so that it doesn't flam with the transient on the 1.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3387
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Ok, I’m slightly obsessive and I think part of this is a MidiGAL issue/bug which crops up for certain tempos. Especially 80 and 100.

I have something else here which is pretty well known for great Midi clock. MidiGAL confirms this all the way up to 200 for some tempos I chose. However at 80, it reports 79.1 average and 100 it reports 99.1 average. Perhaps a computation issue.

The deviation numbers do check out for a number of tempos. I would trust those.

So back to the TR-8s, slower tempos are better and if you are making jungle or something the stability might be something to think about.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i could almost swear that i hear this thing "hiccuping" every once in a while. here and there "out of the corner of my ear" when i have it playing in the background. maybe not, haven't heard it when i'm actually listening for it.



loaded this into the TR-8S earlier. at 115 BPM you can hear that kick flam/build-up that i was talking about, when triggering it every measure. i think it was at 115.4 that it stopped. if you only trigger it once every four measures it works itself out over time and loops ok at 115 (it is a 4-bar loop after all). maybe 115.1, not sure.

figured out how to get past this though. it's never going to be dead-on, especially when looping at 1-bar, 4-bar, etc... if it sounds good, but still has that overlapping transient when it loops around, set the Hold to 15.5 steps (for a 1-bar example, a half step short either way) and raise the Decay just enough so that it doesn't cut off at the end but mixes that final transient low enough so that it doesn't flam with the transient on the 1.
Here is my test. I do not believe I am getting the same behavior as you, if I correctly understand what you are doing. These two recording are the TR-8S internal clock (not externally synced). I have a 4/4 kick programmed that comes in first and then the loop comes in after a couple bars. This is the exact same loop you measured at 115.07 BPM. The first test is at 115.0 BPM, which seems the tightest to me. The second is at 115.4 and you can clearly hear flamming. I even tried it 115.1, and while it was good, I think 115.0 was slightly better.


Old 14th July 2018
  #3389
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Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
Here is my test. I do not believe I am getting the same behavior as you, if I correctly understand what you are doing. These two recording are the TR-8S internal clock (not externally synced). I have a 4/4 kick programmed that comes in first and then the loop comes in after a couple bars. This is the exact same loop you measured at 115.07 BPM. The first test is at 115.0 BPM, which seems the tightest to me. The second is at 115.4 and you can clearly hear flamming. I even tried it 115.1, and while it was good, I think 115.0 was slightly better.


thanks, i'll try to record and post something in a bit. i was talking about something a little different.


really not sure what happened with the USB audio, it was working great on the other one that i had here. it was a GC demo unit, so i'm not sure if there was some setting that was changed from the factory settings. the output on this one seems much louder, almost distorting with the Boost engaged on the main outs. sounded awesome before with the Boost. i don't think anything else has changed from how i had it set up before.
Old 14th July 2018
  #3390
Just as a side note...If your loops are long, say four or more 4/4 bars, that could certainly be a problem over the span of the loop. I usually only have loops of one bar in 4/4, though my example is 8/4. If longer, consider splitting them up. I suggest that as best practice when working with loop base production. That way your “one loop” is triggered multiple times on the beat of the sequencer.
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