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Korg Prologue
Old 25th November 2020
  #7261
vlz
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I also noticed that the triangle wave in particular (perhaps other waves too) has a voice-to-voice variation in shape. Depending on the conditions, it seems to start slightly deformed and then get into a steady triangle shape. This is more noticeable in low frequencies.

- If I hold the a key for a little while (say a couple of seconds), every single voice seems to produce the consistent result of this slight deformation settling into a triangle shape.

- Now, if I use shorter duration (< 1 s), then some notes start with no deformation, others with.

The deformation seems to be a slight straight edge at the top of the triangle (like a resync with a master clock) and causes a buzzy sound as you would expect. To get a clear picture, I put the oscillator at 1/4 volume. Such inconsistencies would be magnified by hard sync. I think there is something funny going on in the waveshaper. It is peculiar that it seems to be dependent on gate time. I guess that kind of thing is part of the VCO territory.
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7262
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
I also noticed that the triangle wave in particular (perhaps other waves too) has a voice-to-voice variation in shape. <Snip>
Yeah, I wonder if there is consistency, that is the Shape on specific VCOs are always offset around the same, so if one where given the calibration possibility to set each waveshaper yourself on your own personal Prologue one might fix this...

Now to the sound of the Prologue which I am a fan of. Feeding very low levels into the filter makes a whole different sound because of gainstaging overall - biggest mistake in: Outboard, Amps, Synths, Gear in general.... it reacts differently to signal strength and sometimes more isn't better
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7263
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLocksley View Post
Yeah, I wonder if there is consistency, that is the Shape on specific VCOs are always offset around the same, so if one where given the calibration possibility to set each waveshaper yourself on your own personal Prologue one might fix this...

Now to the sound of the Prologue which I am a fan of. Feeding very low levels into the filter makes a whole different sound because of gainstaging overall - biggest mistake in: Outboard, Amps, Synths, Gear in general.... it reacts differently to signal strength and sometimes more isn't better
yes, that seems to be the key to get a good sound, the filter appears to be sensitive to high levels. Just playing around as I checked the waveshapes I got a lovely single-osc1 (with a tad of a subosc by osc2) that seems to be nice hark back to the single osc polys of yesteryear.

I think one of its strengths is its simplicity.
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7264
Yul
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🎧 5 years
Guys is there any subharmonic content (noise, low frequencies etc) anywhere below the note fundamental such as what synthpark was describing earlier with the spectrum image he had?
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7265
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Not sure if it's what you are hearing in preset 31, but the basis of it is a hard synced osc2. In the low frequencies, the waveform edge at resync causes a high frequency buzz. If the filter is fully open you can hear the zing. Since the oscs can't quite be exactly at the same frequency, there's a buzz caused by the regular syncing of the triangle.
Thanks! Maybe that's what I'm hearing in this particular hard sync preset.
Old 26th November 2020
  #7266
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
New Sinevibes Oscillator! Node 4OP FM

https://www.sinevibes.com/korgnode/
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7267
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yul View Post
Guys is there any subharmonic content (noise, low frequencies etc) anywhere below the note fundamental such as what synthpark was describing earlier with the spectrum image he had?
Yes, they are there. If it is Crosstalk as Synthpark said, as the OSC going at a low VC tone and the one you press as a high tone next to the Low playing OSC leaks through, or if it is something else I don't know.

Now, I never noticed it since it is quite low volume, but quite audible, I don't find it a 'no go' for keeping my P16. It is sad that there is this crosstalk and problem with the waveshaper not being calibrated but the sounds I get out of this and the price I paid make it a keeper.

My next synth investment will be the Arturia PolyBrut, but that is something completely different and I will still keep the P16 as I know how to coax the exact tones I want out from it - that is I am gelling with it...
Old 26th November 2020
  #7268
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Most vintage gear is praised for what it does wrong, rather than how it was right :-)
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7269
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Most vintage gear is praised for what it does wrong, rather than how it was right :-)
Right. Unfortunately the error doesnt sound musical in this case . Tomorrow I finally have some time left to show two units. Normally analog stands for spectral purity and realism.

Any analog vintage synth sounds cleaner. A short look in the spectrum analyzer will prove. Only digital synths like Prophet VS would not. I keep my Prologue anyway. The error is gone for longer release time.

To me it looks like there might be a mute mechanism foe each voice to reduce the noise floor and cross talk, because the Prologue has very little noise floor and closes unused voices well. And this mute mechanism might fail in certain circumstances (short release). Just an idea.

Last edited by Synthpark; 26th November 2020 at 09:59 PM..
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7270
Here for the gear
 
Just a heads up, Tim Shoebridge has got 50% off his user oscillators for a couple of days. Not sure how well publicised it is, haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Picked up a couple of the latest ones.
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7271
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Most vintage gear is praised for what it does wrong, rather than how it was right :-)
An odd thing I've noticed on my P16, is when I'm using certain sounds with the arpeggiator, the higher range notes tend to 'squeal' in an unpleasant way. I'll have to note down some specific patch examples next time I have it on.
Old 26th November 2020
  #7272
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
When I first got my Prologue, I thought it was plagued with problems. After a while the problems either 'went away', or I figured out what I was doing wrong - of course this is just me and my experience - but mostly I've just learned to live with it, and love what it does, not what it doesn't do.

I bought it for the 16 voice digital programmability. It just happens to have analog voice's in there.

Last edited by SkyWriter; 26th November 2020 at 11:03 PM..
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7273
Gear Nut
In all honesty the only thing I really do miss is an extra LFO so I could modulate more than one thing at once. Or perhaps the ability to use the existing onboard LFO and by switching between the different destinations (cutoff, shape etc) be able to set the speed an intensity of the modulation to each destination independently. If Korg could retrofit that somehow I'd be happy. Is the LFO digital or analog? If it's digital perhaps that would be possible via a firmware update...if it's analog probably not easy.

Otherwise I think it's a great synth and as you say the digital side is amazing and is a gift that keeps on giving. I emailed Sinevibes a question about the SVF and in their response to me they said that they'd even had thoughts of building an entire mini-synth as a user oscillator with 2-3 oscillators and its own filter(s). Think it's probably not much more than a thought bubble at the moment but it's a pretty cool idea. You'd effectively end up with a purely digital synth with its own filter which could be run in parallel with the analog engine up to the effects or with a digital synth with a 2 stage filter plus analog voices.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7274
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcm70 View Post
In all honesty the only thing I really do miss is an extra LFO so I could modulate more than one thing at once. Or perhaps the ability to use the existing onboard LFO and by switching between the different destinations (cutoff, shape etc) be able to set the speed an intensity of the modulation to each destination independently. If Korg could retrofit that somehow I'd be happy. Is the LFO digital or analog? If it's digital perhaps that would be possible via a firmware update...if it's analog probably not easy.

Otherwise I think it's a great synth and as you say the digital side is amazing and is a gift that keeps on giving. I emailed Sinevibes a question about the SVF and in their response to me they said that they'd even had thoughts of building an entire mini-synth as a user oscillator with 2-3 oscillators and its own filter(s). Think it's probably not much more than a thought bubble at the moment but it's a pretty cool idea. You'd effectively end up with a purely digital synth with its own filter which could be run in parallel with the analog engine up to the effects or with a digital synth with a 2 stage filter plus analog voices.
It's been done to whatever extent it's meaningful. The user Oscillator only present 8 controls. Every 8 knob synth I've played, got boring pretty quick.

More than anything else about the implementation, the minimal control presentation is what limits the possibilities such as these.

In fact, if you watch interviews with the developer, the intentionally didn't want folks building entire synthesizers inside the user oscillator.

Even so, very sophisticated expression is possible with the digital oscillator. It's an entirely underrated synth, and folks developing for it come up with some really interesting stuff!
Old 28th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7275
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Ok,
here a two Prologues in comparison. For the Preset 4, the P16 distorts, it cannot handle the resonance for this preset like the golden unit probably could. Both units show the crosstalk. The sequence in the beginning is just to tune the quiet oscillators to low notes. The some stupid playing is needed to get the error, one note played at a time. In practical cases this error might not show up so clearly, especially if release is long or low notes are played together with high notes, but this sense of "dirty sound" remains in some cases. P16 is going back.
Attached Thumbnails
Korg Prologue-unbenannt.jpg  
Attached Files

preset4 P16.mp3 (1.02 MB, 788 views)

preset4 P8.mp3 (1.02 MB, 775 views)

crosstalk P8.mp3 (903.1 KB, 763 views)

crosstalk P16.mp3 (832.7 KB, 775 views)

Old 28th November 2020
  #7276
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
i must be proper fawkin deaf boyo cuz it sounds fine to me

and trust me before you bite, i know i am likely deaf as F, decades behind and in front of 1200s and PA systems mainly playing hard core techno does that to a man

fair play having an 8 and 16 though,
Old 28th November 2020
  #7277
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
WTF !


Β£777 @ THOMANN!!

OMG why did i even look that is insane value
Old 28th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
Ok,
here a two Prologues in comparison. For the Preset 4, the P16 distorts, it cannot handle the resonance for this preset like the golden unit probably could. Both units show the crosstalk. The sequence in the beginning is just to tune the quiet oscillators to low notes. The some stupid playing is needed to get the error, one note played at a time. In practical cases this error might not show up so clearly, especially if release is long or low notes are played together with high notes, but this sense of "dirty sound" remains in some cases. P16 is going back.
I have been testing the Preset 4 in my Prologue 16. It is an unison patch. In my opinion, you are comparing a 16 voice unison with an 8 voice unison, hence the slight distorsion due to a higher relative volumeof the 16 voice version. However it is very simple to correct. I tried to force my Prologe 16 to 8 voices unison using a subtimbre with volume 0. And the result is equal to the Prologue 8 example that you posted. Also, reducing the preset 4 volume in the Prologue 16 from -1.6dB to -6dB also eliminates the distortion, at least in my unit.
Old 29th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7279
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Marks View Post
I have been testing the Preset 4 in my Prologue 16. It is an unison patch. In my opinion, you are comparing a 16 voice unison with an 8 voice unison, hence the slight distorsion due to a higher relative volumeof the 16 voice version. However it is very simple to correct. I tried to force my Prologe 16 to 8 voices unison using a subtimbre with volume 0. And the result is equal to the Prologue 8 example that you posted. Also, reducing the preset 4 volume in the Prologue 16 from -1.6dB to -6dB also eliminates the distortion, at least in my unit.
I dont think the P16 uses more voices in this case, doesnt sound like it. Or am I wrong?

Ok I just looked it up in the manual, yes it uses 16 voices at once, you are right. But Korg should have reserved another 6 dB headroom or so in this case.

Unfortunately this P16 here has also another issue, sometimes I get a strange attack behavior for one voice or so.

Last edited by Synthpark; 29th November 2020 at 12:56 AM..
Old 1st December 2020 | Show parent
  #7280
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
I would keep the P16 and sell the P8, but the fact that the filter resonance has a bit less headroom is a deal breaker. That's a pitty.
What about lowering the individual oscillator levels in the mixer to not oversaturate the analog filter?
Old 1st December 2020 | Show parent
  #7281
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Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jauly View Post
What about lowering the individual oscillator levels in the mixer to not oversaturate the analog filter?
Not so clear what is actually oversaturated. Sounds more like clipping.
Old 2nd December 2020
  #7282
vlz
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After a while meaning to do this, I've finally written an oscillator for the Prologue. However now I am finding a problem trying to load it in the Prologue.

It seems the Korg MIDI driver won't work on MacOS 10.15 (Catalina) and the Prologue librarian can't find the synth. I tried reinstalling the driver and it fails. I actually thought I had last updated the firmware using 10.15 but not too sure now.

Can anyone confirm this should/should not work on MacOS 10.15?
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7283
vlz
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vlz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
After a while meaning to do this, I've finally written an oscillator for the Prologue. However now I am finding a problem trying to load it in the Prologue.

It seems the Korg MIDI driver won't work on MacOS 10.15 (Catalina) and the Prologue librarian can't find the synth. I tried reinstalling the driver and it
fails. I actually thought I had last updated the firmware using 10.15 but not too sure now.

Can anyone confirm this should/should not work on MacOS 10.15?
So, I figured it out. I had to remove the Korg MIDI driver and restart the computer. Now it worked and I have my oscillator in. And it works. But it needs some refinement.
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7284
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kwaping's Avatar
Congrats!!
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7285
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
Not so clear what is actually oversaturated. Sounds more like clipping.
If you say there is little headroom for the filter, lowering the oscillator levels may help.
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7286
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jauly View Post
If you say there is little headroom for the filter, lowering the oscillator levels may help.
That was before Sam Marks pointed out that the unison uses 16 voices and the gain reduction would help which sounds like a sumation headroom problem. If you reduce osc levels it will help but you loose some character.
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7287
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
So, I figured it out. I had to remove the Korg MIDI driver and restart the computer. Now it worked and I have my oscillator in. And it works. But it needs some refinement.
Woohoo! Let the fun being!
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7288
In my opinion the preset 4 sounds better with the slight overdrive from the filter in its 16 voice version. I even think that this was the true intention of the sound designer of this preset. As it gives the bass a very interesting edge, at least in my opinion. I would not consider it a limitation or problem. A powerful and big 16 analog voice bass is something that I like. In the Prologue 16 delivers
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #7289
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Woohoo! Let the fun being!
By the end of the morning I had it generating a nice formant. Then I had to go home, but I wrote the rest of the in the afternoon. I'll try out tomorrow.

If I can fit a couple more carriers in this, I'll write a version that emulates some vowels.
Old 2nd December 2020
  #7290
Lives for gear
 
Sebastian N's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
i can't find the prologue 8 anymore on thomann. would be strange if korg cut it. it's proper competition for the other affordable polys out there. although the 16 is same money as the rev28v. i know everyone here says to get the 16 but i think there's a lot of ppl out there for whom 500 euros is a big stretch and could mean an 8 voice today versus in one year from now. who knows. i just went and took a look because someone posted the 770 gbp price.
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