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The UB-Xa Synthesizer Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 20th February 2018
  #1891
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daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinakroon View Post
Didn't the Matrix 12 have a fan, and a rather loud one at that?

As has been mentioned already, the fan on the DeepMind can be set to off without any ill effects. If this one is the same, I see no issues.
Yes, underneath the power supply board as I recall on some mods–not as stock-though the Elka Synthex did (on the rear panel, shown here with fan removed):

Old 20th February 2018
  #1892
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Quantum7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddever View Post
Arguably, the Prophet-12 desktop can get pretty toasty in free space, and very warm when it's in a 19" rack; the Modal 002R (8-voice) also runs hot in free space. They're vented-chassis designs, but I'd probably use a rack fan if I was touring with them in a 19" closed rack. It's no different than it was 30 years ago.
Perhaps my room is not as hot as others (I keep it at 70 degrees at all times) but my Prophet 12 keyboard and my Modal 002 keyboard emit virtually no heat at all. I guess the rack stuff must have less airflow.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1893
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja View Post
Because theprice of it is much cheaper, so theparts aren't quite as good quality, or I mean consistency when I say quality..
what on earth..?? where you did read that..?
Old 20th February 2018
  #1894
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Perhaps my room is not as hot as others (I keep it at 70 degrees at all times) but my Prophet 12 keyboard and my Modal 002 keyboard emit virtually no heat at all. I guess the rack stuff must have less airflow.
It's most likely the way the synth is designed as for the need for a fan, 12 voices in a very compact space, plus a huge effects and modulation matrix, that's my guess, some of the other answers seem like they are just made up. There's a ton of electronics in a cramped space so the need for heat displacement with a small cooling fan much like a PC was probably necessary when they were designing it.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1895
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

re: fan in the DM12

are you guys just lazy or maybe don't know how to use search engines?

From the DeepMind thread (all quotes from Mr. Behringer):

Quote:
31 July 2016:

We are using low speed fans that are very much inaudible.

However thermal buildup of approximately 4,000 components is not trivial and does require air circulation, in particular in order to manage the temperature related parameter drift of analog components.
Quote:
29 August 2016:

I have asked our engineers to give me a quick overview for the component breakdown of the DeepMind's analog voice board.

The main voice board (there are two) consists of 1888 components, discounting parts such as connectors, PCB's etc.

1775 discrete components including:
987 resistors
642 capacitors
116 transistors
30 diodes

plus

113 integrated circuits (standard Opamps and OTA's)

By strict definition the voice board has 94% discrete components, but it is not a fully discrete design.

Quote:
28 November 2016:

As mentioned earlier, the fan is not a safety relevant feature. Its function is to manage the temperature related parameter drift of the analog section, in particular the filter section.
The DeepMind12 features an auto-calibration procedure and a constant air flow helps the synth to run within defined parameters.

Just to be very clear, like all our products, the DM12 is fully safety certified by international regulatory agencies such as UL, TUV, etc. and it comes with a limited 3 year Warranty Program.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1896
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
well that's what I was trying to say, I just couldn't remember where it was in that gigantic thread, as I knew Uli or one of the Behringer team had discussed it a couple of times.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1897
Gear Nut
 

Another vote for desktop module here.

I see a few other people mentioned MPE and I would like to express support for that sort of thing too. MPE finally got adopted as part of official midi spec recently and it is harder for me to justify buying a non-MPE hardware polysynth in 2018, since I am in love with the roli seaboard block. Dont get me wrong, if the Behringer UB-Xa is available in desktop form and sounds good enough then it will very much tempt me even if it lacks MPE, but it would be nice if the recreation of a classic featured some modern trends that really add to the whole polysynth thing.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1898
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja View Post
Because theprice of it is much cheaper, so theparts aren't quite as good quality, or I mean consistency when I say quality.. Just more susteptible to temperature changes. Despite what some want to believe with the 300 dollar minimmog, etc. But beringer does still follow the laws of physics and you do get what you pay for.. But far from me to try to tell anyone here anything.
This guy has me blocked (or so he says), so I am not going to say much when someone cannot see the post and respond.

It's pretty amazing how much he claims to know however, based upon nothing but his raw imagination, lol.

I'll just leave it at that.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1899
Here for the gear
rebirth of a legend

yes finally!

me and a lot of musicians around the world have been dreaming of owning all these legendary synths for years now, but unfortunately the prices keep rising and rising..

sure, maybe the keyboard version takes up more space and costs a little more to make - but i think that a keyboard version would appeal to a wider spectrum uf customers. and i think that the people interested in the desktop would also buy a keyboard version if it would cost 100-200 more, where else do you get this package?
  1. great as a first time synth - especially when just starting out with home recording and not posessing any type of keyboard
  2. great for bands - just pop open the flightcase and hook that baby up
  3. great for the eye - getting the classic obxa look for your studio

we have to keep in mind that the goal is to pay hommage to the classics, that should be paying attention to the details sound and design wise

the ob-xa was a flagship and only a keyboard version could shine in the same magnificent glory as the original!
Old 20th February 2018
  #1900
Gear Head
 

size difference is just too significant between 5 octave keyboard and a module. It seems that people who are for desktop have a major percentage of those that will not buy keyboard version simply because they can't. Reasons can be too many to list. It's not a whim for them to refuse a keyboard. They just can't buy it as a keyboard period. But their opponents who want it as a keyboard and have space ad infinitum are still able to buy a desktop, they seem to just wish to be given a luxury of 5 octave keyboard that they enjoy but otherwise can still do without.
Old 20th February 2018
  #1901
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CerealG's Avatar
I would prefer 5 octaves keyboard version, because I think that this kind of sounds are best played and explored directly at the synth itself in my opinion. And the 5 octaves gives maximum direct accessibele sonic range.
Old 21st February 2018
  #1902
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Both desktop and keyboard versions have their merits and both designs are valid and will sell well. I personally have no desk space left but I have room for a keyboard.
Also if they can be poly chained then a keyboard can be expanded with the desktop version. Lots of people will go that route too.
Old 21st February 2018
  #1903
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt pinchin View Post
Both desktop and keyboard versions have their merits and both designs are valid and will sell well. I personally have no desk space left but I have room for a keyboard.
Also if they can be poly chained then a keyboard can be expanded with the desktop version. Lots of people will go that route too.
I think you hit the spot there.

An interesting thought though, since the keyboard will have tons of free space on the inside, a second voice board upgrade would be a nice addition as well, it is in my opinion more convenient. Compared to adding a desktop unit in addition to the keyboard version, a solution which adds more cable spagetti and demands more space in the studio. But I wouldn't mind if both solutions would be possible.
Old 21st February 2018
  #1904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt pinchin View Post
Both desktop and keyboard versions have their merits and both designs are valid and will sell well.
I think the wisest manufacturers design their synths for both keyboard and rackable desktop versions from the start - i mean for the smaller case to be able to use exactly the same voice and control boards (maybe split to smaller sections for easy rearranging on the smaller UI space) and many other components too (obviously except the case).
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1905
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyburns View Post
A, B, C, D
AB, AC, AD, BC, BD, CD,
ABC, ACD, BCD,
ABCD etc....
Works fine on the original Obie’s.
Separate from this question above, it’s amazing there are comments asking for things to be implemented that are already there on the original.
It is not hard to find and read the original OBXa manual to famiarise yourself with what it does and what it does not do. I would guess from some people’s comments on this that they are not even in the market to get one anyway.
‘Hide some of the buttons” etc. These synths are just the easiest synths to program. Once you are familiar with them, you don’t even need to know what the labels are. It’s just so well laid out.
Just take it for what it is. There won’t be any effects. There won’t be any aftertouch or velocity sensitivity. The originals did fine without them too. The biggest artists in the world managed to write with and use the OBXa on the biggest hits of the time. Those hits are still big now.
It’s a great synth as it is.
If that 5 octave mock-up of the UBXa gets made, it will be amazing. It’s what DSI should have done with the OB6 instead of shoe horning it into a P6 enclosure just for convenience.
PS, don’t listen to all the people who obviously still live with their mum and dad, have to keep their bedroom tidy and have now ‘run out of room’ for another synth. They won’t be buying this anyway.
Make it like the last mock-up.
Like assholes everyone has an opinion, yet some people mix them up...

"Its going to be how I want it and any other ideas are from dumb idiots who dont even know how to drive"

I'll just put you on ignore right now, anymore self righteous post like that and i will be banned from the derision I'll serve..
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1906
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(laughs)
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1907
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthstrategy View Post
Like assholes everyone has an opinion, yet some people mix them up...

"Its going to be how I want it and any other ideas are from dumb idiots who dont even know how to drive"

I'll just put you on ignore right now, anymore self righteous post like that and i will be banned from the derision I'll serve..

Are you drunk?
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1908
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Arglebargle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyburns View Post
Are you drunk?
Probably just peeved at folks who want to forgo every advancement to synth technology in order to chase some phantom purity.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1909
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arglebargle View Post
Probably just peeved at folks who want to forgo every advancement to synth technology in order to chase some phantom purity.
I am not chasing anything. I already have an OB8.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1910
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arglebargle View Post
Probably just peeved at folks who want to forgo every advancement to synth technology in order to chase some phantom purity.
"advancement synth technology"

in the thread about remaking ( cloning ) vintage synths

This folks probably just want a 1:1 clone of already great concept, and don't want that concept to be ruined with the "brliant" ideas from the advanced 21st centuri "folk"
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1911
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MesS!eR35 View Post
"advancement synth technology"

in the thread about remaking ( cloning ) vintage synths

This folks probably just want a 1:1 clone of already great concept, and don't want that concept to be ruined with the "brliant" ideas from the advanced 21st centuri "folk"
In my view a Clone in 2018 should have everything the original had, plus features that completes the instrument within 2018 standards. MIDI, Velocity, more compact design, less weight, stable tuning, lower price, are good examples for enhancements. I don't think people want 1:1.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1912
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Novem's Avatar
As long as the sound is true to the original, I’d take either!



n.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1913
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novem View Post
As long as the sound is true to the original, I’d take either!



n.
Me too.

There's a continuum of updates you can add and the manufacturer has to decide how far along it to go. MIDI is a no brainer and will happen so additions have already been initiated. Where to stop? Moog went through this with the reissue model D and made their own decisions in private. I'm not sure how much Behringer can really glean, in terms of useful market research, from these public disagreements.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1914
Gear Nut
 

Desktop, please.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1915
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Arglebargle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
In my view a Clone in 2018 should have everything the original had, plus features that completes the instrument within 2018 standards. MIDI, Velocity, more compact design, less weight, stable tuning, lower price, are good examples for enhancements. I don't think people want 1:1.
Yep. There are places where you can argue that some bits shouldn't be added to a neo-clone. If it detracts from the sound, especially. Or if the cost is greater than the addition's value to the instrument.


But don't blindly deify the flaws and shortcomings of the past.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1916
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Arglebargle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyburns View Post
I am not chasing anything. I already have an OB8.
Lucky fella! I had a short term loan of an Xpander that lasted about a year. But all good things....

Make do with a Marion nowadays....
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1917
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arglebargle View Post
Yep. There are places where you can argue that some bits shouldn't be added to a neo-clone. If it detracts from the sound, especially. Or if the cost is greater than the addition's value to the instrument.


But don't blindly deify the flaws and shortcomings of the past.
A big but not noticable change on the clone, would be digital envelopes and control. If there was extra DSP performance available, making room for some basic effects. Would you say yes to effects if the extra cost only came down to a bypass-switch, DA, AD conversion and two knobs? Or would you say it would deviate too drastically from essence of the original?
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1918
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arglebargle View Post
Lucky fella! I had a short term loan of an Xpander that lasted about a year. But all good things....

Make do with a Marion nowadays....
Absolutely love my OB8 but it’s a 35 year old synth. Had a full service on it last year and it’s already showing a few minor issues. So, for me personally, I see this as an opportunity to just have those sounds in a reliable new version.
The UBXa will have midi as standard. That’s a step up from having a bolted on factory upgrade. Midi was in its infancy when the OB8 was released so it’s very basic and primative in its implementation. Would imagine the midi retrofitted to the OBXa is just the same.
Putting velocity sensitivity for filter and amp will add more knobs to the design. As will aftertouch. If Behringer are wilingl to do that, then great but from the original post, it was being touted as a clone of the original.
Again, would love the page2 functions of the OB8. This should not require any new additions to the interface, just a double tap of the chord button to make the controls take on a different function.
Also makes sense to have level knobs for both vco’s And the noise source instead of an on/off/half volume button. Again, would be great but I don’t know how much panel real estate they even have to play with here.
On the last mock-up, I could not see the mini pan pots to pan the 8 voices. Would be great if they are accessible like on the OB8. Not sure how they will handle this either.
I will be grateful though to just have a reliable, stable version of these sounds compatible with the original for patches as far as they can be regarding knob positions etc.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1919
Gear Addict
 

I kind of like the idea of the simplicity of the original but however far they go beyond a 1:1 clone I likely still be on board - as long as the sound is there. The only change that would really annoy me is the loss of the bank and patch buttons but, yes, that's just MY personal preference.

If they keep it 1:1 I'm sure there'll be a more complex Behringer CEM based poly along the line at some point.

And surely they'll be doing a module and a keyboard. We've seen plenty of requests for both and they've shown renders for both.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #1920
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Arglebargle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
A big but not noticable change on the clone, would be digital envelopes and control. If there was extra DSP performance available, making room for some basic effects. Would you say yes to effects if the extra cost only came down to a bypass-switch, DA, AD conversion and two knobs? Or would you say it would deviate too drastically from essence of the original?
Definitely a plus. Traditionalists can just weld the switch shut. Even just a simple chorus or delay would be a positive move imo.

Personally, the Midas folks have earned their stripes, so whatever they decide on will be well considered.

I'd prefer at least a small mod matrix, but that may require more addition of systems than is feasible.
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