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The UB-Xa Synthesizer
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1501
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinakroon View Post
If all the pots will receive MIDI we can still modulate each PW, pitch etc separately with external LFOs or envelopes.
I have a Vermona MONO Lancet which implements PW control from MIDI Mod wheel. Changing PW dynamically by mod wheel sounds steppy and not nice because of the 127 CC values and slow transmission rate of MIDI.

Personally I don't even need to see parameter control by CC, especially if it means control resolution is limited to 127 steps. No idea what the resolution of the knobs on an OBXa is but if it's not high I'd like to see an enhancement here to prevent stepping generally.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1502
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
I have a Vermona MONO Lancet which implements PW control from MIDI Mod wheel. Changing PW dynamically by mod wheel sounds steppy and not nice because of the 127 CC values and slow transmission rate of MIDI.

Personally I don't even need to see parameter control by CC, especially if it means control resolution is limited to 127 steps. No idea what the resolution of the knobs on an OBXa is but if it's not high I'd like to see an enhancement here to prevent stepping generally.
That's a pretty sad design then and I seriously doubt this will have such steppy mod via cc based on their recent offering/s. It's not 1984 so why any manufacturer would implement 127 steps anymore is beyond me.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1503
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
That's a pretty sad design then and I seriously doubt this will have such steppy mod via cc based on their recent offering/s. It's not 1984 so why any manufacturer would implement 127 steps anymore is beyond me.
Thing is, even if you go beyond 127 steps (e.g. using NRPNs,) I would have thought the data transmission rate of MIDI makes anything other than slow modulation rates (eg. from a MIDI LFO) unworkable. Throw in some other concurrent MIDI modulation, some notes and a bit of pitch bend and aftertouch and the data stream must get pretty clogged? I've not tried it. Has anyone had success implementing a MIDI LFO on an analogue synth? I guess a smoothing algorithm within the synth could mitigate. I have a Virus which smooths knob movements quite nicely but I think it somehow "disconnects" you from the guts of the synth. That's a very subjective thing though.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1504
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
Thing is, even if you go beyond 127 steps (e.g. using NRPNs,) I would have thought the data transmission rate of MIDI makes anything other than slow modulation rates (eg. from a MIDI LFO) unworkable. Throw in some other concurrent MIDI modulation, some notes and a bit of pitch bend and aftertouch and the data stream must get pretty clogged? I've not tried it. Has anyone had success implementing a MIDI LFO? I guess a smoothing algorithm within the synth could mitigate. I have a Virus which smooths knob movements quite nicely but I think it somehow "disconnects" you from the guts of the synth. That's a very subjective thing though.
I can't say I notice on mine that use NRPN, they will use USB (plus standard) on this anyway and that will work way quicker so long as the engine has been designed to accept greater amounts of data, which I expect it will. The dm12 etc do so why make this different, there is no stepping on the mod of that engine to my knowledge.

Midi spec over din is slow agreed but absolutely no reason for stepping, that's the synth design if it's choking and stepping over one modulation you mention and such as PW to PWM.

Edit: always here willing to learn and be proved wrong
Old 14th February 2018
  #1505
Gear Addict
 

Obviously USB data rate is orders of magnitude faster than MIDI but isn't MIDI over USB limited to the original MIDI spec of +/- 1ms per packet? Genuine question.
Old 14th February 2018
  #1506
Lives for gear
 

As ive had many of the big classics, a bog standard XA doesnt interest me. To me an xa is very good but not great compared to my personal all times favs, chroma, 4 voice, obx (all of which ive owned) and memorymoog cs80/gx1 and voytra8.

I kept things like the mks 80 and xpander around BECAUSE of the extra features not originally on those above.
ADD the ob-8 functions and im far far more interested, hide them on page 2 for all i care, remembering and acessing that stuffs not difficult for me..
Old 14th February 2018
  #1507
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Heinakroon's Avatar
It obviously won't be audio rate modulation, but for regular LFO tasks it should work fine.

Testing with my minilogue and DeepMind 12, they seem to respond smoothly to control changes from my DAW.

Not as convenient as an extra on-board LFO of course, but workable.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1508
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer View Post
Many incorrectly assume that "more is better" regarding polyphony. There are parts you cannot actually play "correctly" if you have more than about 8 voices.
While this is true (many leads will only work in mono mode with the correct note priority), it would in principle be possible to limit polyphony in software. Won't work the other way around obviously.
Old 14th February 2018
  #1509
Lives for gear
 

Dear Uli, heres an idea. Make it like a computer game the better you are/or get the more secret options you unlock..Next Level stuff.......you can add a 'catch up' mode if you have to. Promote smartening up not dumbing down..
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1510
Gear Nut
 
puta_locura's Avatar
 

that's page 2...synth plays fine in original state, but if you want to get an icing on a cake all you do is switch it on and your knobs will get new functions..Behringer people could probably just borrow an OB-8 from someone for checking page 2 out in action, they don't necessarilly have to actually bid on and buy ob-8 on ebay.
Old 14th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1511
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kurzweil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinakroon View Post
It obviously won't be audio rate modulation, but for regular LFO tasks it should work fine.

Testing with my minilogue and DeepMind 12, they seem to respond smoothly to control changes from my DAW.

Not as convenient as an extra on-board LFO of course, but workable.
As soon as I plug a computer into a synthesizer it starts to feel like work rather than play, but I've had some fun with Max patches that can assign independent 'midi-LFOs' to any parameter of my Bass Station II..
Old 14th February 2018
  #1512
Lives for gear
 

As regards polyphony, I've loved stacking sounds since it was first available on single synths ... it even allowed sounds on the upper end CZs that sound great to me this day (bright metallic on dark layers) ... and on the JP8, but this led to 4 note poly, which has always bugged me. It's not about having more notes than fingers (this always jars) - it's about the luxury of 6 or, for me personally, 8 note stacked layers that appeals. It's why I can't wait to get my hands on a Prologue. It's just a personal desire, and DSI seem to have this covered with no objections now. Extra cards could work and would be in line with the original voice choice in the OBXa if you think about it (4,6,8 wasn't' it - which would you honestly choose?). Anyway, it's just something that could be doable now, without effecting the 8 note or 4 note stacked sound or the original at all. The whole point of this thread is to discus what they might do in a blue sky manner because we were invited to. Yes, I'd be happy with an exact remake, but it doesn't require a thread to itself to repeat that endlessly. If that's the deal, I might give up my ongoing search for a decent OBXa anyway.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1513
Here for the gear
 

Honestly, after reading through this thread, I think the best way to make everyone happy here is to remake the original keyboard as accurately as possible. (Except for that one guy who really wants it to be white, he's really worried about it if you didn't notice) I love the fact that the project is going that way. You could add another lfo for additional modulation, and that would make me even happier! As long as the original sound is the same! And for all those who want to add trashy digital effects: do that externally with your DAW and save everyone else the money and the headaches! The only thing I don't understand is how low this is on the list of priorities. If you look at the number of people expressing interest on this forum alone, its clear that this could be a huge seller. And using the ethos of this classic is going to have a much bigger impact on the market than an original from berhinger - no offense dudes... I personally believe you guys should bump this up on the list. Teach those old-fart-naysayers a lesson and make this happen!!!
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1514
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Heinakroon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebaum42 View Post
Honestly, after reading through this thread, I think the best way to make everyone happy here is to remake the original keyboard as accurately as possible. (Except for that one guy who really wants it to be white, he's really worried about it if you didn't notice) I love the fact that the project is going that way. You could add another lfo for additional modulation, and that would make me even happier! As long as the original sound is the same! And for all those who want to add trashy digital effects: do that externally with your DAW and save everyone else the money and the headaches! The only thing I don't understand is how low this is on the list of priorities. If you look at the number of people expressing interest on this forum alone, its clear that this could be a huge seller. And using the ethos of this classic is going to have a much bigger impact on the market than an original from berhinger - no offense dudes... I personally believe you guys should bump this up on the list. Teach those old-fart-naysayers a lesson and make this happen!!!
Haha, subtweeted on Gearslutz!

For the record, as long as those blue lines can be made subtle enough, I can get over my worry. :D
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1515
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kurzweil's Avatar
If Uli manages to bring a clone of the Xa to market that sounds authentic and does as much as the original, it will be a huge success and any lack of all the feature improvements that I and others would like are not going to stop us from buying this beast. That doesn't stop me from thinking 'what if...' though!
Old 15th February 2018
  #1516
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Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Allow me to provide you with a quick update.

Aside from the earlier desktop version, many of you requested for a keyboard version of the UB-Xa synth and hence we thought we'd share some designs with you. We have asked our engineers to render a 5-octave keyboard version and use this opportunity to show you some of the insights how such a product is developed.

It all starts with the industrial design as well as definition and placement of all functional controls. Once this is completed, the next step is to transfer the "dxf" file which contain the component coordinates plus the artwork for the silk screen printing to the mechanical engineers.
Their job is now to translate the artwork into a fully functional design. In general this works quite smoothly but there are instances where mechanical conflicts arise and artwork changes are required. This collaboration between industrial designers as well as mechanical and system engineers gets more complicated whenever electrical or mechanical constraints come into play.

Over many decades our engineering teams have created a massive component library of close to 100,000 components which have been designed in a photo- and dimension-realistic manner.
This means that any product that is designed based on components from the library will automatically look and feel real, which helps us not only to shorten the design and review process but also skip all photography. As a result any changes can be done almost in real-time and there is no need for traditional photography anymore which is a huge time and cost saver. All our product images on our websites are renderings.

Today I am asking for your feedback in relation to the current design. Do you prefer a keyboard over a desktop version and if yes would you vote for a 4 or 5 octave version. Please remember that the actual features have not yet been decided as we're still gathering valuable input.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Attached Thumbnails
The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_right.jpg   The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top.jpg   The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top-front.jpg   The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_rear.jpg   The UB-Xa Synthesizer-inno-mech-ph_p0cqm_iso-open1_2018-02-15.jpg  

The UB-Xa Synthesizer-inno-mech-ph_p0cqm_iso-front_clear1_2018-02-15.jpg   The UB-Xa Synthesizer-inno-mech-ph_p0cqm_iso-rear_clear2_2018-02-15.jpg  
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1517
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Allow me to provide you with a quick update.

Aside from the earlier desktop version, many of you requested for a keyboard version of the UB-Xa synth and hence we thought we'd share some designs with you. We have asked our engineers to render a 5-octave keyboard version and use this opportunity to show you some of the insights how such a product is developed.

The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_right.jpg

Today I am asking for your feedback in relation to the current design. Do you prefer a keyboard over a desktop version and if yes would you vote for a 4 or 5 octave version. Please remember that the actual features have not been decided as we're still gathering valuable input.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Love it, love it, love it! This is a thing of beauty in the renderings above. Five octaves are my preference but if you put a full sized keyboard on it (no matter the octaves) I'll buy one. Uli, truly, you are the boss.
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1518
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AdmiralQuality's Avatar
 

The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top.jpg

Perfect!
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1519
Gear Nut
 
puta_locura's Avatar
 

it's important to remember that nailing the sound is number one priority, and everything ese is secondary to that...cuz getting sound right is a foundation upon which all other things will fall into place. If it means putting CA 3080 for VCA than it must be done. Actually I was rather surprised that there are at least 10 chinese factories that presently sell that chip on line and it's really very cheap.
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1520
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
it's important to remember that nailing the sound is number one priority, and everything ese is secondary to that...cuz getting sound right is a foundation upon which all other things will fall into place. If it means putting CA 3080 for VCA than it must be done. Actually I was rather surprised that there are at least 10 chinese factories that presently sell that chip on line and it's really very cheap.
Yep, but one thing to remember about Uli; he is not satisfied until he nails the sound. So I have no doubts on that end.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1521
Gear Addict
 

I absolutely love that we are being updated on this project, and invited to offer opinions. Thanks Uli.

I think a 5-octave keyboard is right. With 8 voice polyphony, a player will want that range (at least) to be able to properly do the voicings they wish. Plus, it would be a honest tribute to the original. I really appreciate the rendering has Oberheim's traditional pitch and mod paddles. They are an integral part of the OB lineage.

I also feel if possible, a module/desktop version would be a great offering for those who have that preference. I'd hope this option could be desktop or rack-mountable.

Thumbs up overall - this is so badass.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1522
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Heinakroon's Avatar
This looks really nice!

@ Uli Behringer , would there still be a desktop module or is it one or the other?
Old 15th February 2018
  #1523
Desktop would be my preference...
5 octave (not less) full size keys would my second choice.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1524
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MarkR's Avatar
 

wow hell yeah - only complaint is that is looks weird having the logo/product name cutting off the blue stripes, looks awkwardly shoved in. Instant buy who cares.
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralQuality View Post
The UB-Xa Synthesizer-ub-xa_p0cqm_top.jpg

Perfect!
I have seen OB-Xa's in the wild, at friend's studios, for sale, always in need of repair at some point or another. Even if I spent the going rate on an original at around $5-8K, it would still require maintenance and repair over time as most vintage synths do these days. I'm totally in if a keyboard version happens as I have always wanted an OB-Xa. I would be happy with four or five octaves, no problem.
Old 15th February 2018
  #1526
Lives for gear
 

As someone so aptly put it; if its got keys they need to be good and the other options, mod wheel , back panel jacks etc and the ability to control external synths with ccs etc need to be available, if not, then its not going infront if him.
And i think thats important, with space issues , playability and amount of use, even inspiration which afterall is what is so cherished with creating music.

Nailing the sound is never 100% because its somewhat subjective, but actual mechanics are much less so..

With that said i prefer a desktop
Old 15th February 2018
  #1527
Gear Maniac
 

5 octave please. AND MAN does that look nice. THANK YOU!!!

And yes - PADDLE Bender and Mod!!! That's one of the things i loved about the original OBs!
Old 15th February 2018
  #1528
Gear Nut
 

Do you guys plan on having an audio input?
Old 15th February 2018
  #1529
Lives for gear
 

Flippin 'ell. I need to get saving.
Old 15th February 2018 | Show parent
  #1530
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Do you prefer a keyboard over a desktop version and if yes would you vote for a 4 or 5 octave version.
For a keyboard version I would very much prefer a 5 octave version.

In general I'm all for keyboards over modules, but it looks like you're considering cloning the pitch/mod paddles as well and I'm not sure how well I would get along with those. Actually the same thing would apply if it would get wheels as found on the Deepmind and I sense there is zero chance of this getting a Roland-like pitch/mod stick which I strongly prefer.

I'm leaning very slightly towards wanting a keyboard, but only by an extremely small margin because of the paddles (or wheels). On the VC-340 I don't care too much about what's there because I don't see myself playing fast leads and solos on a stringsynth/vocoder but on this...
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