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The UB-Xa Synthesizer
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9001
vlz
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vlz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by akajuan View Post
I was mentioning the same on another thread:

Yamaha acquired the rights to the Sequential brand in 1987 but only gave it back in 2015 after Roland founder Ikutaro Kakehashi convinced them to do so.

Gibson acquired Oberheim in 1988 yet only attempted to give it back in 2019 when it was "too late".

To me returning the brands to their founders doesn't sound as "romantic" as I wish, and it seems like they only gave them back when couldn't milk more profits out of them.

But hey, both brands were sold for a fee and we live in the world we live in.

It's a shame we are talking about lawsuits instead of blip blops and swooshes.
The sooner we go back to that, the better
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9002
Lives for gear
im gonna go staple my scrotum to a hedgehog as it will be less painful than this thread.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9003
To be honest if someone doesn't like a company and their ethics they can always stop buying their products and go on with their lives. No one is forcing them to. It is getting very frustrating for every single discussion to end up discussing about politics.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9004
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by babbGR View Post
To be honest if someone doesn't like a company and their ethics they can always stop buying their products and go on with their lifes. No one is forcing them to.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9005
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by babbGR View Post
To be honest if someone doesn't like a company and their ethics they can always stop buying their products and go on with their lives. No one is forcing them to. It is getting very frustrating for every single discussion to end up discussing about politics.
......And it has now been stated that NO POLITICS OR COMPANY BASHING ALLOWED on any of the GS forums as of today.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9006
vlz
Lives for gear
 
vlz's Avatar
Just for reference

NO POLITICS IN THIS FORUM !!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9007
Gear Addict
I mentioned this buying of the brand to my brother (whose totally into softsynths and fancy controllers, not hardware).
He's convinced if they brand it as Oberheim they will automatically bung the price up a minimum of 40% immediately over the price it would have been as a Behringer.
I said I don't think they would do that, but he was adamant, he was like "No, I know they will, I've seen it done many times when I worked in the Hi-Fi industry"...
What do you guys think? I don't think its their style - "Hey guys Patrick here, its now new, official Oberheim OB-XA re-issue, not plain old behringer UB-XA, hence £1499, not £999" - no, can't see it....
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9008
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
I mentioned this buying of the brand to my brother (whose totally into softsynths and fancy controllers, not hardware).
He's convinced if they brand it as Oberheim they will automatically bung the price up a minimum of 40% immediately over the price it would have been as a Behringer.
I said I don't think they would do that, but he was adamant, he was like "No, I know they will, I've seen it done many times when I worked in the Hi-Fi industry"...
What do you guys think? I don't think its their style - "Hey guys Patrick here, its now new, official Oberheim OB-XA re-issue, not plain old behringer UB-XA, hence £1499, not £999" - no, can't see it....

Nope.... That won't happen, It's not what Behringer are known for. Before anyone mentions about the Poly D being the price it is then just check as to why the Sequential Pro 3 SE costs $500 more than the standard.If the UB-Xa is going to be an 8 voice then $900 tops but i suspect more like $800 (thats going off the Pro800 being $600). On a further note not about bashing..... Just an observation but when DSI/Sequential announced the P-6 it was $2799, When they announced the OB-6 it was $2999 . Essentially same type of format as one another but because Tom Oberheim was involved cost $200 more. Not complaining or anything .... Just an observation.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9009
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
he was adamant, he was like "No, I know they will, I've seen it done many times when I worked in the Hi-Fi industry"...
Sounds like your brother... convinced a lot of persons into the commission on "danceable" $10,000 ethernet cables, "stabilizing" wood knobs, and green markers for SACDs
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibtl View Post
why can't it be "behringer announces collaboration with t.oberheim" ?
You mean like how Arturia did with Mutable Instruments? :D

Pete
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9011
Lives for gear
 
jiffybox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
You mean like how Arturia did with Mutable Instruments? :D

Pete
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9012
Lives for gear
 
redloheb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
You mean like how Arturia did with Mutable Instruments? :D
And then osmose.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9013
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

any way we can stop rehashing old taterz?

and i don't mean the synths

BTW Uli, if you ever read this place anymore - Dave just passed the ball to you, will you play or what?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9014
vlz
Lives for gear
 
vlz's Avatar
yep, it's on Uli's court now. Let's see whether he is able to respond.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9015
Gear Nut
 
Pythonis Rogue's Avatar
I don't think Behringer is losing sleep over reissues that are priced in the $3-4 thousand dollar range.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9016
Gear Addict
Has Dave Smith and his tiny company not just done in 3 MONTHS (or so, not much longer) with the new Prophet 5 REV 4 what the large Behringer corporation have not been able to achieve with the UB-XA in 3 YEARS?

Ok, he had a head start in that he and John Bowen originally designed it, but that was 43 years ago.
So, 70 year old Dave made an enhanced P5 in 3 months with only assistence from a few underlings in his San Francisco company.

Looks suspiciously like making the UB-Xa cheaply enough has added AT LEAST 2 years and 9 months to the development time of the UB-Xa?

Perhaps they could have even released it 2 years ago if it was two thousand pounds?, I would rather that was the case.
Now that we have waited over 3 years though, and I have spent several thousand on alternatives I am no longer willing to part with any more than £1k for it when it finally materializes.
When it was first announced I had Minilogue, DM6 and shortly after Peak, since waiting, I've added Prologue, REV-2, JD-Xa and MFB Synth Pro, so can't justify spending big bucks on this anymore...


I suspect loads of people are in this position?

I'm now seriously considering forgetting the UB-Xa altogether and saving up for a Prophet 10 over a period of months, then calling it a day on buying the analog polys.

I know they aren't exactly the same....
I suppose you could see them as being like a Lamborghini vs a Ferrari but seeing as I can probably save enough to buy the genuine version of the latter and we've all waited this long already, I dont see the point waiting for the "fake Lambo" to eventually start shipping when Uli's guys can be bothered to release it, or, when it fits into what is probably their "profit maximising release schedule" as determined by Uli's bean counters.

Not an attack on B, its just the timeline of this synth's development is no longer aligned with my requirements, needs or even patience.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9017
Lives for gear
 
SkyWriter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adinfinitum View Post
I represent Fulltone, Way Huge, Scuffham, Carr Amps, Fractal (so far 1 matter working with [email protected]), Atomic, Vintage Vibe, Absara/Supro/Pigtronix until Davd Koltai sold to D’angelico a few months, and Radial Engineering until Peter Janis sold Radial. Basically, if there is 1 thing I’m good at, it is being a TM lawyer. As a Musician, I still suck after 40 years.
Thank's for the authoritative read!

Lol! I suck too! :-) but I'm having fun, that's what's for!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9018
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
Has Dave Smith and his tiny company not just done in 3 MONTHS with the new Prophet 5 REV 4 what the large Behringer corporation have not been able to achieve with the UB-XA in 3 YEARS?
The P5 rev 4 was in no way a 3 month project.

That said, with all the lessons learned on the P6 and OB6 it must've really helped with development. The pitch/mod part is identical (and good too - the wheels have a great feel!), the pushbuttons are identical as well.

Quote:
Not an attack on B, its just the timeline of this synth's development is no longer aligned with my requirements, needs or even patience.
Current events threw a wrench in everyone's plans and it was pretty clear from the start that the UBXa didn't have that kind of priority of having to rush it to the market.

Keep in mind that there's now tooling and precedent for the desktop boxes (Model D, Neutron etc), the smaller keyboards (Poly D), but that the 61-key units likely need some kind of design overhaul (look at the similarity between the VC340 and the Deepmind 6 - incredibly similar case) because you can't easily extend a Deepmind 12 in the z-direction.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9019
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
The P5 rev 4 was in no way a 3 month project.

That said, with all the lessons learned on the P6 and OB6 it must've really helped with development. The pitch/mod part is identical (and good too - the wheels have a great feel!), the pushbuttons are identical as well.


Current events threw a wrench in everyone's plans and it was pretty clear from the start that the UBXa didn't have that kind of priority of having to rush it to the market.

Keep in mind that there's now tooling and precedent for the desktop boxes (Model D, Neutron etc), the smaller keyboards (Poly D), but that the 61-key units likely need some kind of design overhaul (look at the similarity between the VC340 and the Deepmind 6 - incredibly similar case) because you can't easily extend a Deepmind 12 in the z-direction.
Maybe 4 or 5 max according to how Dave described it. He basically said after the Pro 3 came out he was working on a "present to the synth community".
That was only a few months ago.

As for the UB-XA's physical surface components, Behringer showed a physically complete part working UB-XA prototype with 5 octaves plus the Oberheim style knobs, buttons, pedals, etc, 2 years ago.
I suppose they could have been one off 3d printed Oberheim-style interface widgets as opposed to manufactured...
Seeing as they already make their generic in-house keyboard in 3 and 4 octave versions and this won't be getting the poly AT one, how much work would be involved in tacking on another octave? - it does already seem like a modular keybed that they assemble in octave-size chunks.


Dave's new P5 has also needed new tooling - it doesn't have the skinny P6/Rev2/Mopho SE style knobs, it has the much bigger old 70s style Prophet 5 knobs.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9020
Lives for gear
 
DStep ATL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
Maybe 4 or 5 max according to how Dave described it. He basically said after the Pro 3 came out he was working on a "present to the synth community".
That was only a few months ago.

As for the UB-XA's physical surface components, Behringer showed a physically complete part working UB-XA prototype with 5 octaves plus the Oberheim style knobs, buttons, pedals, etc, 2 years ago.
I suppose they could have been one off 3d printed Oberheim-style interface widgets as opposed to manufactured...
Seeing as they already make their generic in-house keyboard in 3 and 4 octave versions and this won't be getting the poly AT one, how much work would be involved in tacking on another octave? - it does already seem like a modular keybed that they assemble in octave-size chunks.


Dave's new P5 has also needed new tooling - it doesn't have the skinny P6/Rev2/Mopho SE style knobs, it has the much bigger old 70s style Prophet 5 knobs.
I think you could say Dave has been working on the P5 for more than 42 years, actually.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9021
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

mods, please lock this Thread, no politics.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9022
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by DStep ATL View Post
I think you could say Dave has been working on the P5 for more than 42 years, actually.
That makes no sense .
That is the equivalent of saying Stephen Spielberg has only been working on Close Encounters for the past 42 years...

Prophet timeline is 1978-1984 and 2020 on...

He didn't touch it at all between 1984 and 2019.
In fact, he wasn't working on any form of analogue synths at all, from 1984 to some time after 2005...

So your 42 years minus 35 = 7. (That's all rounded up to whole years as well; seeing as he only worked on it for part of 84 and part of 2020 its probably more like 5 total).

Perhaps DStep ATL; you should take a lawsuit out against Dave Smith for pretending he was working on the Pro One, Prophet 600, Prophet VS, MIDI, Mopho, Tetra, PolyEvolver, Prophet 8, Tempest, REV-2, P6, OB6 and many more, when as you have stated, all he has really been doing all that time is working on the Prophet 5?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9023
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
mods, please lock this Thread, no politics.
What?
Politics means either actual politics such as US political matters involving DT and JB or slating a company on their ethics and morals.
No one is saying they shouldn't be doing X or Y or that it is unethical, etc.

We are discussing timelines and delays, if you want to waste the mods time with your deliberately dishonest and churlish attempts at flagging something up as political then good luck.
The boy that cried wolf springs to mind...

I didn't even say "boycott the UB-XA" I simply said I have found the elapsed time personally disappointing and am considering saving up for a more expensive equivalent product as I don't necessarily think it (UB-XA) will materialize before I can save enough for the P10.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9024
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
What?
Politics means either actual politics such as US political matters involving DT and JB or slating a company on their ethics and morals.
No one is saying they shouldn't be doing X or Y or that it is unethical, etc.

We are discussing timelines and delays, if you want to waste the mods time with your deliberatly dishonest and churlish attempts at flagging something up as political then good luck.
The boy that cried wolf springs to mind...
i was just kidding and being sarcastic.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9025
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
i was just kidding and being sarcastic.
If you we're then my apologies, looked to me like you were trying to get me in the merde.

Carry on
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9026
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythonis Rogue View Post
I don't think Behringer is losing sleep over reissues that are priced in the $3-4 thousand dollar range.
i agree

but the point here is that little old sequential are knocking it out the park with a stunning pair of poly synths, ok, a bit limited but then again all of their poly are, i actually loved the introducing of P5/10 video i saw of Dave too - nuanced in parts, easy to miss but it is there
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9027
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
Has Dave Smith and his tiny company not just done in 3 MONTHS (or so, not much longer) with the new Prophet 5 REV 4 what the large Behringer corporation have not been able to achieve with the UB-XA in 3 YEARS?

Ok, he had a head start in that he and John Bowen originally designed it, but that was 43 years ago.
So, 70 year old Dave made an enhanced P5 in 3 months with only assistence from a few underlings in his San Francisco company.

Looks suspiciously like making the UB-Xa cheaply enough has added AT LEAST 2 years and 9 months to the development time of the UB-Xa?

Perhaps they could have even released it 2 years ago if it was two thousand pounds?, I would rather that was the case.
Now that we have waited over 3 years though, and I have spent several thousand on alternatives I am no longer willing to part with any more than £1k for it when it finally materializes.
When it was first announced I had Minilogue, DM6 and shortly after Peak, since waiting, I've added Prologue, REV-2, JD-Xa and MFB Synth Pro, so can't justify spending big bucks on this anymore...


I suspect loads of people are in this position?

I'm now seriously considering forgetting the UB-Xa altogether and saving up for a Prophet 10 over a period of months, then calling it a day on buying the analog polys.

I know they aren't exactly the same....
I suppose you could see them as being like a Lamborghini vs a Ferrari but seeing as I can probably save enough to buy the genuine version of the latter and we've all waited this long already, I dont see the point waiting for the "fake Lambo" to eventually start shipping when Uli's guys can be bothered to release it, or, when it fits into what is probably their "profit maximising release schedule" as determined by Uli's bean counters.

Not an attack on B, its just the timeline of this synth's development is no longer aligned with my requirements, needs or even patience.
Ok, nobody is going to stop you
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9028
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Ok, nobody is going to stop you
Thanks J Meister, you're a great bloke!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9029
Gear Nut
 
Pythonis Rogue's Avatar
Unlike Sequential, Behringer is part of a huge group that makes more than just synths. Their other business segments are more profitable and that's what keeps everyone employed.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9030
Lives for gear
 

Two totally different markets..... We live in uncertain times . Over the next few weeks/ months many people will have no job and just a bit of redundancy money to spend on synths. They certainly won't have either £3400 or £4000 to drop on a new prophet unless your job is safe. They might take a punt on a £500 desktop that offers a similar sound though.... This is were Behringer come in. The UB-Xa won't be far off, Neither will the BBG, 2600 and others. Next year we will see P-1600 (P-5), Some type of Jupiter, DS-80 and others. These will all be priced to sell in bulk at very reasonable prices.... Not £3000-£4000. This year has been crap for everyone.... The UB-Xa was a part time project.... It should never have been but i have a sneaking suspicion that lessons have been learned from this. There is no way Sequential can compete with Behringer.... I don't think they are even going to try, This is why i doubt we'll see a 'budget 'product from them again and just do high(ish) end stuff.... Nothing wrong with that. Make no mistake.... This new Prophet 5/10 would have been in the works for the last couple of years..... Dave wants some of the Prophet action and now that alternative SSM and Curtis chips are available to him why not? Business is business.
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