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The UB-Xa Synthesizer
Old 30th August 2019
  #6541
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenDark777 View Post
... My poor keyboard player in the band won't be visible on stage from all the synths I'm planning on buying. I'll have 5 or 6 keyboards (AT LEAST) that she'll have to play live ...
Every keyboardist has a "Fort Wakeman" experience at least once in their career.
Old 30th August 2019
  #6542
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
...
Present used market prices don't reflect reality,
they reflect the hype to victimize end-user and to justify overpermitted greed of modern synth sellers.
Or they could just reflect the reality of supply-and-demand.
Old 31st August 2019
  #6543
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FlyingMusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
Present used market prices don't reflect reality
According to you. To me, the Jupiter 8 is worth today’s asking price and it has nothing to do with anything other than how it sounds and what it can do.
Old 31st August 2019
  #6544
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Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
According to you. To me, the Jupiter 8 is worth today’s asking price and it has nothing to do with anything other than how it sounds and what it can do.
Still, I prefer the sound of the 4 and 6. All 3 have such a distinct character. The 8 sounds amazing don't get me wrong, I just personally like the 4 and 6 better. I mean look at this bargain....I would get it if I wasn't a poor P.O.S.

https://reverb.com/item/26902349-rol...alog-polysynth
Old 31st August 2019
  #6545
Not really a fan of the 6 or the 8, but the 4 is one of the best sounding synths of all time.

Old 31st August 2019
  #6546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason moyer View Post
Not really a fan of the 6 or the 8, but the 4 is one of the best sounding synths of all time.

The heft of the 4 is awesome and unique. The 6 is way different in sound character though. Orbital used the 6 in a lot of their tracks and still do to this day.
Old 31st August 2019
  #6547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebodyperson View Post
The heft of the 4 is awesome and unique. The 6 is way different in sound character though. Orbital used the 6 in a lot of their tracks and still do to this day.
If Behringer want to use that 4-octave case design of the DM12 again, a clone of the JP4 could fit in quite nicely...

Just hope they bump-up the voice count to at least six!
Old 1st September 2019
  #6548
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
If Behringer want to use that 4-octave case design of the DM12 again, a clone of the JP4 could fit in quite nicely...

Just hope they bump-up the voice count to at least six!
It was still a good choice for the VC340, but... you know.
Old 1st September 2019
  #6549
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FlyingMusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebodyperson View Post
Still, I prefer the sound of the 4 and 6. All 3 have such a distinct character. The 8 sounds amazing don't get me wrong, I just personally like the 4 and 6 better.
I've never played a 6. My friend has one and it always sounds great over the phone. It's very clicky, which I love in a synth (same with the Monopoly).

Last edited by FlyingMusician; 2nd September 2019 at 07:04 PM.. Reason: Spelling error
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer View Post
Or they could just reflect the reality of supply-and-demand.
but in this case it is not a natural SAD, it's an artificial one...demand here dictates that artists need their tools to make their art...in the 90-s everyone could afford their tools because there was no EBAY and it was impossible for groups of sellers to team up and block supply of those same tools for nice prices.

Artists do still buy their tools even when 1000 USD JP-8 (2001 price) becomes 12000 USD on Ebay today.
Yes, we now see people pay such prices...but they do it not because they preffer to pay 10 times more(for the same tools that used to be 10 times cheaper before the Hype), but because they are artists and they need their tools to make art.
So that's how we have an artificial hype and victimization of artists who are forced to pay more and more for their tools...
I am not protesting the order of supply and demand,
I am just not going to accept it as fair or natural when Greed on part of seller comunity is running wild and no shame is shown in ripping common artists off...
so it is probably a common opinion nowdays that the artists must be screwed over by overpriced tools they need just because they will sell their house and kids to make their art...
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6551
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kurzweil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
It was still a good choice for the VC340, but... you know.
JP4 in a smaller case could make sense..
Attached Thumbnails
The UB-Xa Synthesizer-jp4-mockup.jpg  
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6552
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
JP4 in a smaller case could make sense..
Hahaha, that's what I call a 'Deep Jupiter'.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6553
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Vectorman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
but in this case it is not a natural SAD, it's an artificial one...demand here dictates that artists need their tools to make their art...in the 90-s everyone could afford their tools because there was no EBAY and it was impossible for groups of sellers to team up and block supply of those same tools for nice prices.

Artists do still buy their tools even when 1000 USD JP-8 (2001 price) becomes 12000 USD on Ebay today.
Yes, we now see people pay such prices...but they do it not because they preffer to pay 10 times more(for the same tools that used to be 10 times cheaper before the Hype), but because they are artists and they need their tools to make art.
So that's how we have an artificial hype and victimization of artists who are forced to pay more and more for their tools...
I am not protesting the order of supply and demand,
I am just not going to accept it as fair or natural when Greed on part of seller comunity is running wild and no shame is shown in ripping common artists off...
so it is probably a common opinion nowdays that the artists must be screwed over by overpriced tools they need just because they will sell their house and kids to make their art...
Does anyone genuinely need a Jupiter 8 (or any other legendary poly synth with an inflated price) to make art, though? That's a bit like saying, "I just can't create music unless somebody is forced to sell me an all-original 1960's Fender Jazz Bass for $1,000."

But don't bemoan an inability to have a Jupiter 8 too much. We've seen people who have an iconic poly synth or two and who don't seem to be able to do much more with them than play simple triads in fairly cliche progressions...and people who can do far more compelling things with a less widely desired old synth you can get for $500 run through an effects pedal. And now-well-known artists who have recorded highly-regarded stuff with less expensive gear.

Fortunately, supply and demand is working in our favor, too. There is more demand for classic vintage synths than supply can support (hence the inflated prices). Enter Behringer, stepping in to fill the vacuum others had a chance to for years and didn't, and create a new supply to meet that demand at a price more people can afford. No need to talk about what should be "permitted" and price-gouging on vintage gear...natural market forces are in the process of delivering alternatives.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6554
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kurzweil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectorman View Post
Does anyone genuinely need a Jupiter 8 (or any other legendary poly synth with an inflated price) to make art, though? That's a bit like saying, "I just can't create music unless somebody is forced to sell me an all-original 1960's Fender Jazz Bass for $1,000."

But don't bemoan an inability to have a Jupiter 8 too much. We've seen people who have an iconic poly synth or two and who don't seem to be able to do much more with them than play simple triads in fairly cliche progressions...and people who can do far more compelling things with a less widely desired old synth you can get for $500 run through an effects pedal. And now-well-known artists who have recorded highly-regarded stuff with less expensive gear.

Fortunately, supply and demand is working in our favor, too. There is more demand for classic vintage synths than supply can support (hence the inflated prices). Enter Behringer, stepping in to fill the vacuum others had a chance to for years and didn't, and create a new supply to meet that demand at a price more people can afford. No need to talk about what should be "permitted" and price-gouging on vintage gear...natural market forces are in the process of delivering alternatives.
Some types of music need expensive gear. Ask any concert cellist. In my case, I need legendary polysynths *at knock-down prices* to make my Art. I've been making music on budget gear for decades. Working around limitations can be a creative process. But it can also be a time-consuming pain in the arse. Like the time I wrote an epic work for polyphonic analogue synthesizers using SH-101 and Fostex X15 4-track. It took a few days, sounded great, but I'll never do it again because it took so bloody long. I felt like Stockhausen working in the Cologne radio studios making electronic music with sine generators and tape loops. He never did that again either!
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6555
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
Some types of music need expensive gear. Ask any concert cellist. In my case, I need legendary polysynths *at knock-down prices* to make my Art. I've been making music on budget gear for decades. Working around limitations can be a creative process. But it can also be a time-consuming pain in the arse. Like the time I wrote an epic work for polyphonic analogue synthesizers using SH-101 and Fostex X15 4-track. It took a few days, sounded great, but I'll never do it again because it took so bloody long. I felt like Stockhausen working in the Cologne radio studios making electronic music with sine generators and tape loops. He never did that again either!
Oh, I don't know that anyone NEEDS expensive gear. Either I can play or I can't. You bet a poly analog is a great tool to have, but does it have to be EXACTLY what we heard on a record? There are synths that cannot be replicated EXACTLY as a 40 year old Vintage synth, but it's US that knows the difference. I've had people in the audience come up and refer to my synths as "an organ", so you bet a lot of people are clueless.


Mike T.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
Artists do still buy their tools even when 1000 USD JP-8 (2001 price) becomes 12000 USD on Ebay today.
Yes, we now see people pay such prices...but they do it not because they preffer to pay 10 times more(for the same tools that used to be 10 times cheaper before the Hype), but because they are artists and they need their tools to make art.
More like rich guys having their mid-life crisis.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6557
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikt156 View Post
Oh, I don't know that anyone NEEDS expensive gear. Either I can play or I can't. You bet a poly analog is a great tool to have, but does it have to be EXACTLY what we heard on a record? There are synths that cannot be replicated EXACTLY as a 40 year old Vintage synth, but it's US that knows the difference. I've had people in the audience come up and refer to my synths as "an organ", so you bet a lot of people are clueless.
Even if those artists would try to replicate the same record they made 40 years ago, they probably would end up with a different result.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6558
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
but in this case it is not a natural SAD, it's an artificial one...demand here dictates that artists need their tools to make their art...in the 90-s everyone could afford their tools because there was no EBAY and it was impossible for groups of sellers to team up and block supply of those same tools for nice prices. ... [snip]
You've demonstrated aptly that you have no idea how supply vs. demand works. It's not about what people "prefer". It's about what is available vs. how many people want it.

There currently are too few old classic synths available to fill the desire of artists who want them. Many of these instruments were made in very small numbers in the first place. The current prices are a reflection of this reality.

In the 90s, prices were lower for used gear of this nature, because the demand was quite a bit lower. The resurgence of interest in vintage analog accounts for the difference.

There were always musician's bargain lists for anyone who looked for them. Services like Ebay and Reverb have simply streamlined the process, and made things available globally. Nobody has a corner on the market, as can be aptly demonstrated by a quick check of instruments for sale.

Whining that you can't something at the price you personally find attractive is not an economic argument.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6559
Gear Maniac
 
FlyingMusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
but in this case it is not a natural SAD, it's an artificial one...I am just not going to accept it as fair or natural when Greed on part of seller comunity is running wild and no shame is shown in ripping common artists off...
There isn't is a band of evil rich folks buying up vintage synths like Jupiter 8's, artificially inflating the prices to rip off poor starving artists. Right now many are for sale from various sellers and they are still commanding a high price. They sell for what they sell for, for one simple reason: it's worth that price to someone.

And it's a very personal decision why someone buys a specific instrument like a synth, guitar, mic, etc. and what they are willing to pay for it.
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6560
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Precisely.

/Econ101 class dismissed
Old 2nd September 2019
  #6561
Gear Nut
 
puta_locura's Avatar
 

I have no desire to argue...I saw this stuff happen on Ebay 15 years ago...I can't exactly point my finger to those ppl who pulled this inflation strategy now because it is impossible after 15 years...it was cause then, now is an effect...what we see now is a result...
I am done with this subject anyway since I can't change the crazy prices by myself and I have nothing to prove...but I remain with my opinion...
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6562
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by puta_locura View Post
I have no desire to argue...I saw this stuff happen on Ebay 15 years ago...I can't exactly point my finger to those ppl who pulled this inflation strategy now because it is impossible after 15 years...it was cause then, now is an effect...what we see now is a result...
I am done with this subject anyway since I can't change the crazy prices by myself and I have nothing to prove...but I remain with my opinion...
Economic reality does not care about your opinion. Your entitled to your opinion, of course. It would just be better informed if it were based upon the real world as opposed to something approaching paranoid delusion.

You can't "point your finger" because there is nothing on the other end. All you "saw" was people buying and selling. There is absolutely no "market-cornering" or "inflation strategy" at work here ... and that can be demonstrated beyond any rational doubt.

Believe what you wish ... some people think the Earth is flat. They are entitled to their opinion as well. I am every bit as within my rights to point out that it borders on hallucination.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6563
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Believing that the Earth is flat is not an "opinion". By saying so, one might think that believing the Earth is a globe is just another "opinion", the two "opinions" being on the same level, so to speak, so everyone is entitled to embrace one or the other.
This is flawed reasoning. No offence.
Saying the Earth is flat is not an opinion, it is a lie.
Nothing to do with synthesizers- just a late night (in my time zone) rumination
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6564
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
There isn't is a band of evil rich folks buying up vintage synths like Jupiter 8's, artificially inflating the prices to rip off poor starving artists. Right now many are for sale from various sellers and they are still commanding a high price. They sell for what they sell for, for one simple reason: it's worth that price to someone.
I know at least 3 people in my country (Spain) that just buy gear and resell everything the next day at a greater price, even without testing the instrument. To my understanding, that's an artificial price inflation.

They make big money buy just speculating with instruments.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
I know at least 3 people in my country (Spain) that just buy gear and resell everything the next day at a greater price, even without testing the instrument. To my understanding, that's an artificial price inflation.

They make big money buy just speculating with instruments.
Nothing artificial about it, it's simply one aspect of inflation. That they held onto them for a day or a year matters not. They buy low when they spot a deal and flip it for a profit. Nothing stopping you or anyone else from doing the same.

If it were actual manipulation, it would look more like one entity buying up all of the old Whatevers, causing a mass shortage, and an immediate spike that affects many. But that's not the case here, as those Whatevers can be found elsewhere...

They are speculators, who play a risky game. They can't know whether or not Behringer or whomever will release an inexpensive clone tomorrow, causing demand for an original to drop, and then they'd be stuck with units that won't sell.

Their profit is their reward for that risky game, and is basic normal economics when done by various individuals not working in some coordinated way.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6566
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
There isn't is a band of evil rich folks buying up vintage synths like Jupiter 8's, artificially inflating the prices to rip off poor starving artists. Right now many are for sale from various sellers and they are still commanding a high price. They sell for what they sell for, for one simple reason: it's worth that price to someone.

And it's a very personal decision why someone buys a specific instrument like a synth, guitar, mic, etc. and what they are willing to pay for it.
Exactly. Some years ago I had an original set of Moog Taurus I Bass Pedals for sale on E-bay. A guy contacted me and said he was not at home and unable to BID on E-Bay, but would be home in a few days. He was an airline pilot. I didn't get a bid as high as the Reserve so it was not sold.

The man emailed me when he got home and requested photos of the pedals. I sent him several, and he said he wanted to buy it. To make a long story short, he sent me a $1000 deposit and said he would be gone for a few days and when he returned he would come for the pedals. He lived about 150 miles from me. I held the check as a deposit until he arrived to see the Pedals. He wanted them and paid CASH for the balance. I gave him the flight case I had bought for it, he was a happy camper.

I am always Leary of people that want to go around ebay, but this guy was legit. Unusual, but it worked out.


Mike T.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikt156 View Post
Exactly. Some years ago I had an original set of Moog Taurus I Bass Pedals for sale on E-bay. A guy contacted me and said he was not at home and unable to BID on E-Bay, but would be home in a few days. He was an airline pilot. I didn't get a bid as high as the Reserve so it was not sold.

The man emailed me when he got home and requested photos of the pedals. I sent him several, and he said he wanted to buy it. To make a long story short, he sent me a $1000 deposit and said he would be gone for a few days and when he returned he would come for the pedals. He lived about 150 miles from me. I held the check as a deposit until he arrived to see the Pedals. He wanted them and paid CASH for the balance. I gave him the flight case I had bought for it, he was a happy camper.

I am always Leary of people that want to go around ebay, but this guy was legit. Unusual, but it worked out.


Mike T.
You didn't cash that check before he came?

Risky, AF, if so.

The usual version of that story ends in the check being bad and you only getting paid that "balance" and the buyer disappearing afterwards.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6568
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
Believing that the Earth is flat is not an "opinion". By saying so, one might think that believing the Earth is a globe is just another "opinion", the two "opinions" being on the same level, so to speak, so everyone is entitled to embrace one or the other.
This is flawed reasoning. No offence.
Saying the Earth is flat is not an opinion, it is a lie.
Then you didn't get the sarcasm. Obviously the Earth is not flat. I noted that such an opinion "borders on hallucination". That's called an "analogy". Perhaps if one is not an native English speaker, this is not clear.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6569
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
I know at least 3 people in my country (Spain) that just buy gear and resell everything the next day at a greater price, even without testing the instrument. To my understanding, that's an artificial price inflation.

They make big money buy just speculating with instruments.
If this is true, it would indicate that they are aware of the sources for such instruments well ahead of those who eventually buy them. Not paying attention is not an indication that those who are paying attention are taking advantage of them.
Old 3rd September 2019
  #6570
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massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer View Post
some people think the Earth is flat. They are entitled to their opinion as well
I am not sure it is a language barrier problem here, or that I did not get your sarcasm. My comment was not about accusing you of thinking the Earth is flat, you stated you obviously don't. It was a general comment on how a "lie" cannot be an "opinion", not quite a comment about your own opinions or about this very synthesizer discussion. What I meant was: A lie does not even deserve to be discussed, while an opinion does.
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