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Deepmind 12 vs novation peak
Old 13th October 2017
  #1
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Deepmind 12 vs novation peak

Hi,

Im currently considering buying either the deepmind12 or the novation peak.
I'm a producer who focuses on future bass, grime and the ovo sound with a soft heart for retro/80's sounds and its gonna be the first hardware synth im goin to buy.

I've done alot of research but having a very hard time choosing which one to buy. Each have their own pro's and con' s but i'm hoping someone here can help me out.

I have a midi keyboard and ableton push to connect with either of them. I don't want to fiddle 5 hours with osc's to find that ultimate sound, so alot of menudiving is not goin to be suitable. I need something thats easy to use in a producers workflow so it wont bug my creative process.

Ps. My piano skills aint that impressive so the poly chord functions on the dm are definitely a +.

Hopefully someone can help me out.

Cheers
Old 13th October 2017
  #2
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On paper (by tech specs), Peak should be way way way better than DM12.
But...
From what i heard on YT and SC from both of them until now, DM12 can do sounds that fit my tastes better.

Not very helpful, i know.
Old 13th October 2017
  #3
Deleted d59bfd5
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideliza View Post
Hi,

Im currently considering buying either the deepmind12 or the novation peak.
I'm a producer who focuses on future bass, grime and the ovo sound with a soft heart for retro/80's sounds and its gonna be the first hardware synth im goin to buy.

I've done alot of research but having a very hard time choosing which one to buy. Each have their own pro's and con' s but i'm hoping someone here can help me out.

I have a midi keyboard and ableton push to connect with either of them. I don't want to fiddle 5 hours with osc's to find that ultimate sound, so alot of menudiving is not goin to be suitable. I need something thats easy to use in a producers workflow so it wont bug my creative process.

Ps. My piano skills aint that impressive so the poly chord functions on the dm are definitely a +.

Hopefully someone can help me out.

Cheers
Go and test them both yourself in a music instruments store, if you can.
I wouldn't rely on anyone's opinion and recommend to build your own instead.
Old 13th October 2017
  #4
Well not that my 2cents are worth much on this but... much as I like the DM as a modern synth I dont think it sounds particularly modern, I think its almost vintage tone attracted me in the first place as a kinda cousin to the 106. What little demos Ive heard from the Peak make me think its more suited to modern styles, not saying the DM isnt capable, there is a bit of menu diving though its intuative...I dont know or make future bass...glad i could be of help
Old 13th October 2017
  #5
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Couldnt agree more, tried the dm12, but no local music store seems to have the peak. :s
Old 13th October 2017
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideliza View Post
... so alot of menudiving is not goin to be suitable. I need something thats easy to use in a producers workflow so it wont bug my creative process.
...
I have both and I experienced that on both you must do some menudiving.
But it depends what you want to do with the sound.

br
Old 13th October 2017
  #7
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login's Avatar
The Peak is more immediate in fact, it has the most crucial functions in the surface without menu diving, with what is present on the surface you can program a lot of sounds.

The Dm12 is a much more simple synth with 1 1/2 oscillator and just 2 waveforms, programming from the front panel you will reach its limits faster, if you start wishing to edit it deeper to get something more out of it you are going to need to go into menu, many menus.

Consider this: The dm12 has 25 faders plus 31 buttons, there are no controls for the FX on the front panel and neither for modulation assignment (just the amount for the filter from the LFO and envelope)

The peak has 42 knobs plus 8 faders plus 30 buttons, it has double the number of controls than the dm12, and its oscillators guarantee that it will have a much broader sonic palette just from the front panel. It has more modulation amount controls just in the front panel: filter fm, osc mod from LFO and envelopes. And FX controls.

To me without a doubt the Peak is a much more fun accesible instrument, specially if you are working from the computer and don't need the keyboard.

Instead of the DM12 I would consider a Roland System 8 second hand, it has a Juno emulation which would be very similar to the Dm12 sound, and then way more options in the Jupiter and system 8 engines, and it has 76 knobs/faders, but yeah way less modulation and worst effects (but you are working with a computer anyway so you got better fx there).

But the peak really seems like the superior option to me.
Old 13th October 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog View Post
I have both and I experienced that on both you must do some menudiving.
But it depends what you want to do with the sound.

br
sonic palette is bigger on the peak, it doesnt have limitations on the osc's like the dm. but i love the sounds of the dm more (yes i know the peak can do the same but, for me as a producer, the ease of a lot of those presets do make it easier for my workflow). i'm not planning to become a wave synthesis wizard, i'm looking for a rather quick satisfaction while fiddling with osc's etc.
Old 13th October 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
...
The dm12 has 25 faders plus 31 buttons,
...
The peak has 42 knobs plus 8 faders plus 30 buttons, ...
...
Roland System 8 ... it has 76 knobs/faders,
Ok, if the count of knobs counts.

Do you use both (DM12, Peak) on a daily base?

As always two different synths. Only comparable if ever on what one want to achieve in one's own context.

My experience is that you need menu diving on both.
Menu system on DM12 is very nice. On Peak a little bit awkward because of its old display with matrix/encoder concept. (But its of course a personal opinion)

And the DM12 is not simple although it has two osc's and a subosc (you say 1 1/2 osc's, why?) because eg. of its modulation capabilities. With it you can even create patches with 2 saws and 2 squares.

Please hear the vast sound capabilities of the DM12 on demos (eg on YT).

Peak is for me a chameleon. It can sound very, very classic (Moog) but also very digital, modern, ...

br
Old 13th October 2017
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
The Peak is more immediate in fact, it has the most crucial functions in the surface without menu diving, with what is present on the surface you can program a lot of sounds.

The Dm12 is a much more simple synth with 1 1/2 oscillator and just 2 waveforms, programming from the front panel you will reach its limits faster, if you start wishing to edit it deeper to get something more out of it you are going to need to go into menu, many menus.

Consider this: The dm12 has 25 faders plus 31 buttons, there are no controls for the FX on the front panel and neither for modulation assignment (just the amount for the filter from the LFO and envelope)

The peak has 42 knobs plus 8 faders plus 30 buttons, it has double the number of controls than the dm12, and its oscillators guarantee that it will have a much broader sonic palette just from the front panel. It has more modulation amount controls just in the front panel: filter fm, osc mod from LFO and envelopes. And FX controls.

To me without a doubt the Peak is a much more fun accesible instrument, specially if you are working from the computer and don't need the keyboard.

Instead of the DM12 I would consider a Roland System 8 second hand, it has a Juno emulation which would be very similar to the Dm12 sound, and then way more options in the Jupiter and system 8 engines, and it has 76 knobs/faders, but yeah way less modulation and worst effects (but you are working with a computer anyway so you got better fx there).

But the peak really seems like the superior option to me.
i think you made a very good comparison, the peak does seem more accessible with indeed a wider sonic palette but it doesnt come near the amount and feel of the presets of the dm plus, my lack of piano skills are easily compensated with the chord/poly chord modes on the dm.

roland system 8 doesnt make me feel a thing, do appreciate the suggestion though.
Old 6th November 2017
  #11
Deleted cec0d5b
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideliza View Post
i think you made a very good comparison, the peak does seem more accessible with indeed a wider sonic palette but it doesnt come near the amount and feel of the presets of the dm plus, my lack of piano skills are easily compensated with the chord/poly chord modes on the dm.
I think you answered your own question here...?
Old 6th November 2017
  #12
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Peak sounds amazing.
Old 7th November 2017
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted cec0d5b View Post
I think you answered your own question here...?
Yeah, this.

At the end of the day, those two synths just have different flavors, different sweet spots.

An interesting choice for Peak money would be, Peak only vs. Deepmind plus a $300-500 analog mono of your choice. Could be bassier than the DM, doesn't need a keyboard. ... bs2 or circuit monostation if you want novation flavor.

Or if you love the Peak sound, just get a Peak. It will probably be supported for centuries to come, good company.
Old 10th December 2017
  #14
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This is a re-post (with some mods) of an earlier post I did in the "Novation Peak" thread ... it seems more appropriate to post it here.

I tried to judge Peak and DeepMind by the YouTube videos and ended up getting the DeepMind 12D ... big mistake! I then got the Peak and compared them both side to side for about 2 weeks ... but it didn't take more than a few minutes to hear how Peak sounded superior in every way (just the opposite of how I judged them on YouTube).... and MUCH more flexible in the Oscillator department. I was afraid of the Peak sounding too harsh compared to DeepMind ... but hearing them both in person it was clear to me that Peak simply had a broader pallette of sounds, some of which were, to my ears, harsh ... but it is easy to avoid such sounds on Peak. DeepMind, on the other hand, sounded, to my ears, thin (i.e. little girth).. and there was also some hard-to-describe aspect of the DeepMind's sound that made it sound more like a softsynth than hardware. Yes, I could make it sound more robust, but it took a lot more effort to do this than it took to get Peak to sound smooth. And with DeepMind's very limited oscillator section, many sounds that I wanted did not seem possible on DeepMind.

The high number of dedicated controls and clean logical layout of controls is another major feature of this synth (and another area were it is superior to DeepMind). I didn't realize how important this was to me until I started playing around with it. Most of my prior experience has been with soft synth's (Diva, Falcon, Omnisphere) ... this is sooo much more fun! Also, a great way to learn synthesis.

The biggest thing that Deepmind has that I found lacking with Peak is a S/W editor (either desktop or tablet) that would provide:

1) control of features only accessible via menus on the Peak (e.g. Mod Matrix setup)
2) direct visiblity of the state of all controls in existing patches

I've created a partial solution to item 1 in MidiDesigner Pro (an iPad app) that I shared some details of here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/13007502-post1919.html

In summary, despite its lack of S/W Editor, I found Peak to be clearly superior overall to Deepmind, and in my opinion, the best value in its class. I know they have been in short supply lately ... but I found Peak to be well worth the wait.
Old 10th December 2017
  #15
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
What the hell is a “producer’s workflow?”
Old 10th December 2017
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
What the hell is a “producer’s workflow?”
a fancy word for smoking bongs whilst shopping for gear on line..
Old 21st December 2017
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
a fancy word for smoking bongs whilst shopping for gear on line..
So true xD
Old 22nd December 2017
  #18
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I'm kind of wondering why somebody who works in ITB dominated genres would waste money on hardware synths?

Making grime with a dm12 seems kind of silly.
Old 22nd December 2017
  #19
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Randomized's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Young View Post
I'm kind of wondering why somebody who works in ITB dominated genres would waste money on hardware synths?

Making grime with a dm12 seems kind of silly.
DM12 is currently so cheap it makes more sense to buy it as a midi keyboard than pay almost the same for a keyboard that doesn't include 12-voice analog synth with dozens of effects as a bonus.
Old 22nd December 2017
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
DM12 is currently so cheap it makes more sense to buy it as a midi keyboard than pay almost the same for a keyboard that doesn't include 12-voice analog synth with dozens of effects as a bonus.
I think you're right. £740 in the UK is ridiculous value.

I had been planning a Kontrol Mk2 but the new DM12 prices has me pausing for thought. Owned one before I went through a "fed up with music so sold it all" meltdown of sorts but thinking it would work a treat as Octatrack food!
Old 22nd December 2017
  #21
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
DM12 is currently so cheap it makes more sense to buy it as a midi keyboard than pay almost the same for a keyboard that doesn't include 12-voice analog synth with dozens of effects as a bonus.
Excellent way of putting it

A decent controller such as that on the dm12 costs a good amount so why not just add a decent synth for very little?
Old 22nd December 2017
  #22
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I’ve only demoed the DM a couple times and have never touched the Peak, but I’d still say the Peak is the best choice for you considering that you make future bass and grime, which are primarily ITB genres. As you’ve noted, the Peak is capable of a wider palette of sounds, and it’s going to be way more capable for that kind of sound than the DM. I wouldn’t push either out of bed for the right price, but for the types of sounds you’re talking about I’d go for a hybrid architecture to embrace the best of both worlds if you want to get outside the box a bit.
Old 29th December 2017
  #23
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BlackBetty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
What the hell is a “producer’s workflow?”
Producer: someone that makes something
Workflow: how they do it

Simple eh?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Young View Post
I'm kind of wondering why somebody who works in ITB dominated genres would waste money on hardware synths?

Making grime with a dm12 seems kind of silly.
I think they would soon get lost in making any music at all unless they were confident about their knowledge on how to get the best of hardware to mimic their ITB workflow
I have yet to see many people master this art, and it is an art
Few examples do exist on YT and this is where people should concentrate on watching how results are achieved imo


Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
I’ve only demoed the DM a couple times and have never touched the Peak, but I’d still say the Peak is the best choice for you considering that you make future bass and grime, which are primarily ITB genres. As you’ve noted, the Peak is capable of a wider palette of sounds, and it’s going to be way more capable for that kind of sound than the DM. I wouldn’t push either out of bed for the right price, but for the types of sounds you’re talking about I’d go for a hybrid architecture to embrace the best of both worlds if you want to get outside the box a bit.
PEAK is a very wide beast, it can do many things and do it well, you would still need to understand Synthesis as a whole to get the desired results but I do believe it would be much easier to coax than a DM12 which would be lacking in the grime department
The filter is key imo and the PEAK does have a very nice one with 3 accompanying OSCs
I almost dropped coin on this with a Rev2, I got neither and went to a SP16, reason being is my work flow
I have enough synths, I just do not have that extra piece of gear to drive them in the way I want
XOX sequencing is what I need, with a great arranger but with 2 added bonuses: DSI filter, Sampler (8 analog out)
I need something simple and versatile, something that will be a brain of my studio
Given your wanting something to work with Push controller, Ableton isn't the greatest of midi syncs, the midi keyboard would serve you better imo
When you say midi, are you referring to 5 pin din or USB?
Old 22nd June 2018
  #24
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Hi. I own both and have a major gas problem.The deepmind does some great things and is great value and well made imo,with amazing effects,but the peak blows everything ive owned away for the type of sounds i like.Big analogue brass and leads,vangelis sounds,huge pads and its much much easier to get to programme.Be warned both synths all the presets suck and i was unable to use 1 preset from either.The deepmind made some great sounds when i was recording but not my favourite iconic sounds,the peak after 4 hours i was achieving lift off on 7 presets i made. I dont use arpeegg,sequence,bells,experimental sounds, i just just play with both hands and peak wins. The minilogue is also more to my taste than the deepmind although more limited and you need external effects and the 4 note poly is a bit restricting.I still rate the deepmind though , and if yourw not looking for fat analogue stock sounds the deepmind may be best for you.
Old 22nd June 2018
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykeys View Post
Hi.
Welcome to the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykeys View Post
and if yourw not looking for fat analogue stock sounds the deepmind may be best for you.
Yes, i see you said "stock sounds".
But for me this video is an example of some GREAT fat analogue sounds:

Can Peak really beat it ?
Post some audio here.
Old 22nd June 2018
  #26
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
2 very different synths, not much in common at all imo.
Old 22nd June 2018
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomico View Post
DeepMind, on the other hand, sounded, to my ears, thin (i.e. little girth).. and there was also some hard-to-describe aspect of the DeepMind's sound that made it sound more like a softsynth than hardware. Yes, I could make it sound more robust, but it took a lot more effort to do this than it took to get Peak to sound smooth.
The Deepmind presets have very little dynamics. DM can sound much better. Add some unisono and you get tasty sounds. I am very satisfied with my DM12 here. but I would still consider the Peak, just don't like the fact that its not a rack unit.
Old 8th September 2018
  #28
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Hi all,
I was considering to buy a Peak because as far as I understand it is a sonically superior synth. However I was checking the YT videos mostly for presets and the Deepmind has awesome factory presets or patches and the Peak not as much for my taste. Since I have an Ultranova I know novation is not so strong about factory presets. ( I thought presets partly for showing the capabilities of the synth but maybe they have some different idea about that.) My question is that somebody write somewhere that the DM has more complex mod matrix and I was wondering what that really mean? DM has some preset with atmospheric pad and kind of moving or arp like complex sounds and I was wondering if Peak can do similar or this is where the mod matrix is “more” in DM?
7:45,
YouTube
14:00,
YouTube
Old 8th September 2018
  #29
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banditos View Post
Hi all,
I was considering to buy a Peak because as far as I understand it is a sonically superior synth. However I was checking the YT videos mostly for presets and the Deepmind has awesome factory presets or patches and the Peak not as much for my taste. Since I have an Ultranova I know novation is not so strong about factory presets. ( I thought presets partly for showing the capabilities of the synth but maybe they have some different idea about that.) My question is that somebody write somewhere that the DM has more complex mod matrix and I was wondering what that really mean? DM has some preset with atmospheric pad and kind of moving or arp like complex sounds and I was wondering if Peak can do similar or this is where the mod matrix is “more” in DM?
7:45,
YouTube
14:00,
YouTube
I think it’s misguided to compare the Peak to the Deepmind. They’re too different. The Peak presets do seem to suck, but I’ve heard good stuff from it. The Deepmind has better presets, IMO, but they rely very heavily on the effects processor. I think a better comparison would be either the Deepmind vs. the Prophet 08 REV2 or the Peak and the Prophet 12 Module. Frankly, in both of those cases I’d pick the DSI/Sequential instruments. Neither the Peak or the Deepmind appeal to me that much. Their core tone isn’t for me. Get a REV2 and a Behringer X Air mixer for effects.
Old 8th September 2018
  #30
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If you want something to bring retro/80s tones to the mix have you considered a system 8 / 1 ? They also have built in audio interfaces if you don't have one already vs. peak/dm12

You could try Roland cloud vsts and if the tone suits get the hardware?

Or pick up a Juno/Jx3p second hand?

Or.. Yamaha reface cs?

From description of what you're looking for not feeling dm12 or peak as strongest..
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