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Yamaha TG77 - woah!
Old 1 week ago
  #61
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Hokut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
iOS editor would of course be cool to use, but I’ve managed within just over a week to get really fast on the inbuilt UI, even the envelopes, you may find that with a better screen you don’t even need an editor.

Most of the evenings this week I’ve had the TG77 on a chair, Minibrute on top of it connected via midi, and me lying on the carpet just messing about with sounds, it’s been a comfy synth heaven.
Oh yes, that's fine, I used to program the SY-77 with the built-in display. This new display should be even better

The main advantage of the iPad app is that you can touch control a number of parameters at the same time without having to change menu pages
Old 1 week ago
  #62
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Hi dude, thought I’d share an update.
The 77/99 really is the modular of FM synths. Love it.

To save a sysex dump, you need a USB to midi adapter to connect the 77 to a compter, then you'll need a sysex program like MIDI Ox for Windows or SysEx Librarian for Mac. Check the MIDI settings to make sure the software is connected to your USB-midi adapter.

The Mac one is pretty straightforward, but with MIDI Ox you have to enable Pass Sysex and then open the "Sysex..." window before you can record a sysex file.

Once your software is set up, press record and it'll start listening for a sysex dump. On the 77, dump your data.

If everything is set up correctly, your software will show a rising number of bytes it's receiving from the 77. Once that number stops rising, sysex dump is complete. Press Stop in your software to stop it listening for sysex.

Save the file and you're done.

All of this is from memory but if I'm off, you'll be able to suss it out.

Last edited by robotunes; 1 week ago at 05:48 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #63
Gear Maniac
 

I got an SY77 late last year as my first digital synth from GC used and am just now getting into it. Replaced the battery and the disk belt but alas no disks to test it yet. The presets sound and little tweaking I've done sound very usable and will keep me busy. Need to print some manuals!
Old 6 days ago
  #64
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Getting more and more happy with my patches as it goes on. Bank A & B nearly full up!

Think I’m gonna go for broke and try programming the whole 64, then release it with a YouTube video or something.

They’ll be free with optional donation.
Old 6 days ago
  #65
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tux99's Avatar
 

Looking forward to it, I have a whole Sector101 MCD Sweet 16 card inside my TG77 waiting to be filled with interesting patches!
Old 6 days ago
  #66
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Getting more and more happy with my patches as it goes on. Bank A & B nearly full up!

Think I’m gonna go for broke and try programming the whole 64, then release it with a YouTube video or something.

They’ll be free with optional donation.
Once you get started, it's hard to stop. It's a freaking sound laboratory. Screw it, I'm going to go get mine and start programming again. Thanks for the inspiration.
Old 5 days ago
  #67
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Once you get started, it's hard to stop. It's a freaking sound laboratory. Screw it, I'm going to go get mine and start programming again. Thanks for the inspiration.
RCM has so many difficult to tame sweet spots! It’s totally why they abandoned the tech, 9 times out of 10 it’s noise noise noise.

Managed to do a nice RCM piano pad last night. As the velocity sensitive (amp/filter) piano slightly fades out, OP1 fades in, and for a moment they interact with that familiar RCM warble.

Like before, OP2 is also routed to OP1 and has EGbias on the wheel to bring up the brightness at any time.

I had to be super careful with the keytracking on OP1 as on some of the multisample boundaries things got too hairy, but once under control these things sound really nice.

I feel sometimes with the 77 like I’m trying to carve a statue out of a massive stick of lit dynamite.
Old 5 days ago
  #68
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
RCM has so many difficult to tame sweet spots!
Word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I had to be super careful with the keytracking on OP1 as on some of the multisample boundaries things got too hairy
For this reason I wish the 77/99 had fractional scaling.

@acreil Are the DX7S, DX7ii and TX802 the only Yamaha FMs with fractional scaling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I feel sometimes with the 77 like I’m trying to carve a statue out of a massive stick of lit dynamite.
Haha! Brilliant!

Won't be able to get to mine till the weekend. Stuck it in the basement cuz it's such a beautiful time suck that I was spending more time designing sounds than making music with the sounds.

Do you know V.A.S.T.? How do you rate exploring a K2xx vs the 77? Same question with the EX7? I keep telling myself I shd get something more immediate like a Digitone or WS A/D or keep digging the K1m.
Old 5 days ago
  #69
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Word.


For this reason I wish the 77/99 had fractional scaling.

@acreil Are the DX7S, DX7ii and TX802 the only Yamaha FMs with fractional scaling?


Haha! Brilliant!

Won't be able to get to mine till the weekend. Stuck it in the basement cuz it's such a beautiful time suck that I was spending more time designing sounds than making music with the sounds.

Do you know V.A.S.T.? How do you rate exploring a K2xx vs the 77? Same question with the EX7? I keep telling myself I shd get something more immediate like a Digitone or WS A/D or keep digging the K1m.
I have a K2000R.

The EX7 is the most immediate of all, as the UI is pretty easy, also there are knobs. Pick a sample, choose and FDSP type and mess with it, I learned it quick. It does vector stuff really well with 4 out of phase LFOs. The Kurzweil shares many of the same synthesis functions as the 7, like FM, waveshaping, Karplus, the exotic stuff, but the 7 adds PWM to any sample (fun) and also the crazy water algorithm. I think VAST only really has one thing over th 7, and that’s the modulation abilities of FUNs, other that that they can sound quite similar, powerful.

I’m getting a Digitakt soon to sequence these cool digital synths as they all respond to CC messages and will be hella cool sequenced.

One thing to mention with the Wavestation is it’s permanently in combi mode. I don’t really ever use combi or multitimbral modes, so there’s a complexity there that might be hard to keep track of. I guess, if I owned one, I’d just make a load of empty combi’s and treat them as patches, the hierarchy to get to wavesequences also looked quite tricky from the manual. But I don’t own one, I might be easier that the TG77 in some respects as long as the display is good. With the legacy collection version that I own, I find it frustrating that hard synching many waveforms often brings in an ugly distortion, but behind that distortion you can hear amazing timbral sweeps going on, it’s like the sync algorithm would benefit from some interpolation or something, same with SQ80. I haven’t tried the Vsynth’s sync, that may be easier to control as one oscillator HAS to be VA.

I love talking about digital synths, it’s just struck me that now I own most of the oddball ROMplers, I still need a D70 though to explore differential loop modulation. Though by most accounts it doesn’t sound very good.
Old 5 days ago
  #70
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acreil's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
@acreil Are the DX7S, DX7ii and TX802 the only Yamaha FMs with fractional scaling?
uh I dunno, I guess so

Quote:
Do you know V.A.S.T.? How do you rate exploring a K2xx vs the 77? Same question with the EX7? I keep telling myself I shd get something more immediate like a Digitone or WS A/D or keep digging the K1m.
The SHAPER and SW+SHP blocks in the Kurzweil models are basically similar to RCM. VAST isn't generally as good for FM, but I think it's better for filtering and modulation and other stuff. And the samples are much better than the ones in the SY77.
Old 5 days ago
  #71
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
but the 7 adds PWM to any sample (fun)
Kurz can do this too.
Old 3 days ago
  #72
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
The EX7 is the most immediate of all
Again you make the EX7 hard to resist. I really do think I would love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I’m getting a Digitakt soon to sequence these cool digital synths as they all respond to CC messages and will be hella cool sequenced.
Speaking of this, my journey has taken an unexpected twist. Came across a cheap Reface DX so I'm finally getting one. Been wantng to p-lock it with the Octatrack plus now I can scratch my Digitone itch. This also serves the immediacy kick I've been on, so 3 birds with one stone.

Sadly this means the SY77 goes back into the basement after a day in the sun. I'm back to focusing on creating complete tracks -- not just repetitive sequences -- in one sitting, using only the Octatrack and 2-4 synths. Looking forward to mashing up some Reface-K1m weirdness with some Volca FM unpredictability on the side and BSII gnarlyness on top. BSII has its shortcomings but it's immediate and pretty expressive because you can assign the mod wheel and aftertouch to multiple destinations. Combned with the pitch wheel you can accent your playing with some yowls, shrieks and moans. Fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I haven’t tried the Vsynth’s sync, that may be easier to control as one oscillator HAS to be VA.
How're you and the VSynth getting along? Selling the GT and the DX7II are my only synth regrets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I love talking about digital synths
Same here. I like digging in and answering "What if I did THIS instead?" I know software dwarfs these possibilities but it is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
it’s just struck me that now I own most of the oddball ROMplers, I still need a D70 though to explore differential loop modulation. Though by most accounts it doesn’t sound very good.
"Though by most accounts it doesn’t sound very good." Music to your ears.
Old 3 days ago
  #73
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Again you make the EX7 hard to resist. I really do think I would love it.


Speaking of this, my journey has taken an unexpected twist. Came across a cheap Reface DX so I'm finally getting one. Been wantng to p-lock it with the Octatrack plus now I can scratch my Digitone itch. This also serves the immediacy kick I've been on, so 3 birds with one stone.

Sadly this means the SY77 goes back into the basement after a day in the sun. I'm back to focusing on creating complete tracks -- not just repetitive sequences -- in one sitting, using only the Octatrack and 2-4 synths. Looking forward to mashing up some Reface-K1m weirdness with some Volca FM unpredictability on the side and BSII gnarlyness on top. BSII has its shortcomings but it's immediate and pretty expressive because you can assign the mod wheel and aftertouch to multiple destinations. Combned with the pitch wheel you can accent your playing with some yowls, shrieks and moans. Fun!


How're you and the VSynth getting along? Selling the GT and the DX7II are my only synth regrets.


Same here. I like digging in and answering "What if I did THIS instead?" I know software dwarfs these possibilities but it is what it is.

"Though by most accounts it doesn’t sound very good." Music to your ears.
Yes I’m sure there’s a use for DLM, one golden number that makes something cool but it mostly sounds awful in a bad way...much harsher than waveshaping...

I’m happy to hear you have a nice workflow going on. I myself am not actually making any music at all the moment, not pressuring myself and focusing on my recovery, I’m spending my free time working on this bank of SY77/TG77 patches for you all. It’s really mindful and a lot of fun. I’ve done 34 now.

Today I learned the magic ratio to make Hard Sync sounds on the TG77. It basically comes down to a high-ish carrier (say 3.00) being modulated by a 1.00 modulator, and the modulator’s amp envelope has to die away first, letting more of the pure high tone through as it ends. Using an AWM saw wave is great, though the filter needs to be down to tame it a little.

It’s not exactly like Hard Sync, but it sounds cool, like a more DX-y version of it, and certainly usable, bent into leads or pad sounds with different envelopes.

It’s so nice to be able to get around the 77 now, I was so so scared on the first day but I knew I just had to dive in!

I’m not sure what my favourite synth is anymore, I keep flitting between EX7, TG77, An1x, WSA1 or EPS16+, they all have patches on that at this stage I couldn’t live without.

My next 3 purchases are Prophet 08, Digitakt and Organelle, unsure which to go for first, but either way I’m sure in for some fun!

I’m pretty sure once I get the Prophet I have one of every type of synth ever made (VCO/DCO/FM/PM/Granular etc etc) so I don’t really know where to go from there...
Old 3 days ago
  #74
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re5etuk's Avatar
organelle - that new update looks very cool (ability to run more than one patch). i dont have one.
digitakt is easy to use and sounds crisp , theres the obvious issue on overbridge but otherwise its my main box.
prophet 8 - expensive and lush i would guess , i dont have one .

i'll turn my tg77 on at the weekend...havent used it apart from to ensure it works.
Old 3 days ago
  #75
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acreil's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Today I learned the magic ratio to make Hard Sync sounds on the TG77. It basically comes down to a high-ish carrier (say 3.00) being modulated by a 1.00 modulator, and the modulator’s amp envelope has to die away first, letting more of the pure high tone through as it ends. Using an AWM saw wave is great, though the filter needs to be down to tame it a little.

It’s not exactly like Hard Sync, but it sounds cool, like a more DX-y version of it, and certainly usable, bent into leads or pad sounds with different envelopes.
Not to suggest more unnecessary purchases, but the Casio VZ series is made for that kind of thing. Although at this point I think the Reface DX might be a better choice.
Old 3 days ago
  #76
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crufty's Avatar
Arg me mateys, me tg77 battery be kaput and me cant be finding me solder kit to swap me battery out. Arg, me be sad.

why me battery made out of impossiblanium be me biggest mysterium. Arrrgghhh
Old 3 days ago
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokut View Post
I got new display for my TG-77 which I have not been using because the whining sound... I didn't get time to install the new Display.
I cannot remember the exact name but I think there is a good iOS editor for the TG-77 which gives you touch control over everything, I will get it after I replace the display.

The SY-77 was my first synth workstation (many moons ago) and a few years back I got the TG-77 because I missed those FM sounds.
The Patch Base editor from Coffeeshopped doesn't support the TG77 or the EX77 yet, but you can vote for them. The developer is very responsive to customer feedback, so who knows, they might make an editor for the TG77 next.

The Patch Base editor itself is a free iOS app; you just pay for the editors you want.

Vote for Patch Base Editors | Coffeeshopped

Steve
Old 3 days ago
  #78
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robotunes's Avatar
The iPad app MIDI Designer already has an editor for the SY77/TG77 and many others. The UI and user experience are less than ideal because there are so many parameters. But the insane number of parameters will make it difficult for anybody to make a satisfying editor for the iPad.

Old 2 days ago
  #79
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by acreil View Post
Not to suggest more unnecessary purchases, but the Casio VZ series is made for that kind of thing. Although at this point I think the Reface DX might be a better choice.
Lol you told me not to bother with the VZ and get the 77

However it’s still there in the back of my mind. Having that many ring modulatotsnper patch must make it sound a little different.

Don’t think I’ll buy any more FM in the near future though the reface looks fun and portable.
Old 2 days ago
  #80
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Hokut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowsOfLife View Post
The Patch Base editor from Coffeeshopped doesn't support the TG77 or the EX77 yet, but you can vote for them. The developer is very responsive to customer feedback, so who knows, they might make an editor for the TG77 next.

The Patch Base editor itself is a free iOS app; you just pay for the editors you want.

Vote for Patch Base Editors | Coffeeshopped

Steve
The one I remember for the TG77 was I think MD77
MD77: Voice Editor for Yamaha SY77/TG77 | discchord

MD77: Yamaha SY77/TG77 Editor on the App Store

I did not use it yet but looks promising at $9.99

You can upgrade to MIDI Designer Pro 2 (engine behind MD77) and make your own custom version/pages for it...
I will get this app up and running after I replace the display I bought recently
Old 2 days ago
  #81
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acreil's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Lol you told me not to bother with the VZ and get the 77
The TG77 is in general a lot better and more flexible, but since the VZ can use sawtooth waves for both carriers and modulators it's extremely well suited to buzzy sync-like sounds.
Old 2 days ago
  #82
Gear Addict
 

i have to keep banging on about the panning options on 77..

no one else seems to notice them?

im not sure if any hw synth has ever matched what they had..

my new yam fm purchases
dx7/tx7
sy77
fs1r
?? wheres a standalone fmx, (i dont want a rompy included)
Old 2 days ago
  #83
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
Arg me mateys, me tg77 battery be kaput and me cant be finding me solder kit to swap me battery out. Arg, me be sad.

why me battery made out of impossiblanium be me biggest mysterium. Arrrgghhh
Turned my SY77 on for the first time in a while and got the "Change internal battery" message. So now I need a new drive belt for the floppy drive and a new battery.

Can I find anywhere in the UK that sells a CR2032 with through-hole tabs 15.2mm apart? Can I heck. I know the part numbers (Panasonic CR2032/1HS, Renata CR2032FH) and they still make them, but nobody seems to stocks the little blighters. And, being lithium, no-one will ship them internationally.
Old 2 days ago
  #84
i7x
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Lol you told me not to bother with the VZ and get the 77

However it’s still there in the back of my mind. Having that many ring modulatotsnper patch must make it sound a little different.

Don’t think I’ll buy any more FM in the near future though the reface looks fun and portable.
the answer is both , the tg77 and Casio vz10m are totally unique and different and both i think highly underrated sound palletes
Old 2 days ago
  #85
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Turned my SY77 on for the first time in a while and got the "Change internal battery" message. So now I need a new drive belt for the floppy drive and a new battery.

Can I find anywhere in the UK that sells a CR2032 with through-hole tabs 15.2mm apart? Can I heck. I know the part numbers (Panasonic CR2032/1HS, Renata CR2032FH) and they still make them, but nobody seems to stocks the little blighters. And, being lithium, no-one will ship them internationally.
I think that when my tech replaced my Yamaha batteries he just soldered a socket
Old 2 days ago
  #86
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7x View Post
the answer is both , the tg77 and Casio vz10m are totally unique and different and both i think highly underrated sound palletes
Now that’s GS talk!
Old 2 days ago
  #87
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I think that when my tech replaced my Yamaha batteries he just soldered a socket
Could I ask who? And where? I could do with finding a good tech (preferably in West Yorkshire) since I'd rather not DIY a battery holder.
Old 2 days ago
  #88
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Could I ask who? And where? I could do with finding a good tech (preferably in West Yorkshire) since I'd rather not DIY a battery holder.
My tech is in Birmingham. He works out of uprawr studios and is called Steve. He’s really nice.
Old 2 days ago
  #89
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
My tech is in Birmingham. He works out of uprawr studios and is called Steve. He’s really nice.
Thanks.

Unfortunately that'd mean shipping it; I'd be happier if I could find someone reasonably close where I could take it in person. That or find a suitable battery because I'd really like to have it working again.
Old 2 days ago
  #90
Gear Head
Am I the only one who didn’t understand the potential of tg77 or I just had some awful “piano” presets
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