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Yamaha TG77 - woah! Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 2nd June 2018
  #31
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I figured out one way of changing the selected operator, my selecting it on the mix/output page, is there another way?
Next to the data slider, hold down OPERATOR and press 1-6.

Don't feel obligated to use all the operators. Imho, the most important thing to get to grips with is routable feedback. Playing around with that will get you a whole universe of sounds out of just one voice. It's puts you on track to making it sound like an analogue synth.

With RCM, it helps to run the AWM voice through a filter before using it as a modulator. If an operator receives too much amplitude, you'll only produce noise. EDIT: You have the Waveblade, right? Try RCM using a sample of a drum loop to get rhythmic changes in FM timbre. So much to explore.

Also, don't forget to layer sounds and subtly use the panning envelope. Turn off the lights and play it in the dark. It can be very moving.

The blue LCD was a HUGE revelation for me. My SY had the typical faded backlight. It figuratively felt like I was bumping around in the dark. The new LCD made a world of difference.
Old 2nd June 2018
  #32
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Next to the data slider, hold down OPERATOR and press 1-6.

Don't feel obligated to use all the operators. Imho, the most important thing to get to grips with is routable feedback. Playing around with that will get you a whole universe of sounds out of just one voice. It's puts you on track to making it sound like an analogue synth.

With RCM, it helps to run the AWM voice through a filter before using it as a modulator. If an operator receives too much amplitude, you'll only produce noise.

Also, don't forget to layer sounds and subtly use the panning envelope. Turn off the lights and play it in the dark. It can be very moving.

The blue LCD was a HUGE revelation for me. My SY had the typical faded backlight. It figuratively felt like I was bumping around in the dark. The new LCD made a world of difference.
Thanks for the pointers. I already knew about lowpassing AWM sources as the EX7’s 2OP FM engine (which is stellar, the only Yamaha FM engine featuring samples, where you can map phase amount to the wheel, it sounds phenomenal) features an optional lowpass, but your other tips have given me much to think about.

I really like how the unit looks with the blue display, it’s like a retro blue synthesis playground that I don’t yet understand.

I got it, I think for a good price. £350 with the display already installed. eBay prices this year have had most SY77’s with stock displays at £300ish buy it now, and TG77’s with stock display at £395ish buy it now.

So I thought I’d pounce on this one. What do you think, decent deal? It had the manuals with it.
Old 2nd June 2018
  #33
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Thanks for the pointers. I already knew about lowpassing AWM sources as the EX7’s 2OP FM engine (which is stellar, the only Yamaha FM engine featuring samples, where you can map phase amount to the wheel, it sounds phenomenal) features an optional lowpass
EX7 sounds crazy. Man, one of these days...

You got a great deal, especially with the manuals. When they got scanned into PDFs, the graphics became illegible which sucks because you can't read what's supposed to be on your LCD. And getting one with a blue LCD beats buying a TG77, then tracking down a blue LCD then paying someone installing it and waiting around for it to come back from the shop. So yeah, great deal.

Hell yeah that layout is intimidating and confusing. There are over 1,000 parameters. Like you implied, you'll get it.

Funny, to me the blue LCD looks modern, not retro. Guess my brain just hasn't evolved haha.

Looking forward to hearing what you do with it.

What do you think of the effects? I like how they finish the sound, but I still use external stuff. I freaking love this machine.
Old 2nd June 2018
  #34
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
EX7 sounds crazy. Man, one of these days...

You got a great deal, especially with the manuals. When they got scanned into PDFs, the graphics became illegible which sucks because you can't read what's supposed to be on your LCD. And getting one with a blue LCD beats buying a TG77, then tracking down a blue LCD then paying someone installing it and waiting around for it to come back from the shop. So yeah, great deal.

Hell yeah that layout is intimidating and confusing. There are over 1,000 parameters. Like you implied, you'll get it.

Funny, to me the blue LCD looks modern, not retro. Guess my brain just hasn't evolved haha.

Looking forward to hearing what you do with it.

What do you think of the effects? I like how they finish the sound, but I still use external stuff. I freaking love this machine.
I don’t think quite “modern” is what I get from it, but I think “expensive 80’s” like, this tech is from a secret underground lab and each display cost £10,000. lol

The effects are better than I remember from the first time around (I owned a SY77 about 7 years ago) it doesn’t sound as nasty and metallic as I was thinking it would, I have an RV500 and Meris Mercury so plenty of externary options.

Yeah you need an EX7, phenomenally undervalued. Even as a ROMpler it’s great, with 4 partials per patch, offset delay, a complex second LFO with angular phase offset and so many mod routings for the controllers. Then you add the ability for 16MB flash RAM for your own samples, then you add some crazy effects, formant filters, bitcrushing, etc etc, and then you add FDSP ON TOP, with per note Karplus, Waveshaping, Water effects, 2OP FM, PWM on any sample.

It’s fair to say it’s my desert island synth.
Old 2nd June 2018
  #35
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
It’s fair to say it’s my desert island synth.
Every time I see you post about it, I get the urge. Just when I've convinced myself that I need it and I'm getting ready to sell some meaningful gear to get one, I'll see another post about how underpowered it is.

I keep telling myself "That's OK. Use it as a mono if you have to." But then I look at what I have to give up to get one -- and the prices I'd have to pay to buy them back if the EX disappoints -- and I get cold feet.

Besides, I'm still not sure if I want an EX7 or a Wavestation A/D or a Digitone.

Will get 'em all soon as that lottery check clears. Any day now...
Old 2nd June 2018
  #36
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Every time I see you post about it, I get the urge. Just when I've convinced myself that I need it and I'm getting ready to sell some meaningful gear to get one, I'll see another post about how underpowered it is.

I keep telling myself "That's OK. Use it as a mono if you have to." But then I look at what I have to give up to get one -- and the prices I'd have to pay to buy them back if the EX disappoints -- and I get cold feet.

Besides, I'm still not sure if I want an EX7 or a Wavestation A/D or a Digitone.

Will get 'em all soon as that lottery check clears. Any day now...
If you do get one, just factor in the cost of the 16MB flash board (£66 from Sector 101) and another £10-15 for 64MB RAM
Old 3rd June 2018
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
IC8364R7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I got it, I think for a good price. £350 with the display already installed. eBay prices this year have had most SY77’s with stock displays at £300ish buy it now, and TG77’s with stock display at £395ish buy it now.

So I thought I’d pounce on this one. What do you think, decent deal? It had the manuals with it.
Reasonable. Got mine in Feb '18 for EUR 334, including the manuals; them and the unit look absolutely stunning, as if it was carefully put to a rack only once and left there, being controlled only via an editor. Still the original display, though.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #38
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BassX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post

I made a really nice 2OP sound where it starts with one OP and then the modwheel brings in a second operator with feedback loop. Drenched in Hall Reverb and Symphonic it’s pretty nice.

So, just 4 more OPs, a noise source and RCM to go!
Post some TG77 sounds
Old 3rd June 2018
  #39
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassX View Post
Post some TG77 sounds
I don’t know how to just dump a voice or two. I’ve only made 3 sounds so far, they are nice though.

Worked out the front panel now. It’s not so bad, I was initially just scared and intimidated by it, I think.

The only annoying thing is jumping from the common page to the element page when you want to set up certain things (AMOD by mod wheel, for instance all of my sounds have that going on to bring in the modulators)

I explored the looping envelopes, very very fun, and capable of audio-rate ring modulation (Thanks Acreil for pointing this out) and am wowed by the power of the machine, for 1989.

I haven’t figured out how to influence envelope rates (and therefore the ringmod pitch) by mod wheel or anything, I don’t think it can be done, still, it’s cool to add textures to pads if you stick an LFO on the pitch.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #40
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
The only annoying thing is jumping from the common page to the element page when you want to set up certain things (AMOD by mod wheel, for instance all of my sounds have that going on to bring in the modulators)
Check out the Jump function on page 26 of the operating manual. May not help but it's there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I explored the looping envelopes, very very fun, and capable of audio-rate ring modulation (Thanks Acreil for pointing this out)
Never thought of doing this. Awesome.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #41
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I just received a TG77 with blue display this week.
I sat down today to program it from the front panel.
HOLY COW!

I’m very used to the EX7’s very good UI from 1999, but going back 10 years to this UI is a complex and confusing affair to say the least!

I figured out one way of changing the selected operator, my selecting it on the mix/output page, is there another way?

I made a really nice 2OP sound where it starts with one OP and then the modwheel brings in a second operator with feedback loop. Drenched in Hall Reverb and Symphonic it’s pretty nice.

So, just 4 more OPs, a noise source and RCM to go!
Reading your posts when you are discovering new-to-you synths is a pure joy, like watching a kid in a candy store.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #42
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot View Post
Reading your posts when you are discovering new-to-you synths is a pure joy, like watching a kid in a candy store.
I’m hoping to start another YouTube channel in the new year where I just do this lol.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #43
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Jpro600k's Avatar
 

Hi,

Have you ever used this?
I have used this, but I think that it is easier than operating with a panel of equipment.
Yamaha SY-TG77 editor – Ctrlr

I made these music with SY77.

Depth of field 4

ORCHE

ORCHE Crush

ORCHE Crush Ver.2

Thank you.


New tune ZERO.

Then, there is another new tune at the end of My Piano improvisation's thread.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #44
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpro600k View Post
Hi,

Have you ever used this?
I have used this, but I think that it is easier than operating with a panel of equipment.
Yamaha SY-TG77 editor – Ctrlr

I made these music with SY77.

Depth of field 4

ORCHE

ORCHE Crush

ORCHE Crush Ver.2

Thank you.


New tune ZERO.

Then, there is another new tune at the end of My Piano improvisation's thread.
By now, the UI totally makes sense to me. I’m flying around, I know how to get to all the elements, operators, feedback loops. I’m loving it.

I think I’ve finally mastered FM synthesis after all these years. I can have a sound in my head and then dial it in, of course, there are happy accidents along the way and you can switch out various waveforms to see the results, but yeah, I wanted to make a big detune saw pad which got brighter with the mod wheel and some odd ring mod stuff in the background, and well, that’s what I did. It took like 20mins mind, but I got there.

I guess you always have to add a bit more time onto your synthesis when you’re working with a heavily vested menu UI!
Old 3rd June 2018
  #45
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
If you do get one, just factor in the cost of the 16MB flash board (£66 from Sector 101) and another £10-15 for 64MB RAM
and potentially the Yamaha SCSI board and the CF/SD SCSI solution unless you plan on loading up the DRAM via floppies/floppy emulators. It's pretty common for folks to take the SCSI board out and sell it separately since that SCSI controller works on a couple of pieces of Yamaha gear. I never had any luck doing sample transfers over SMDI.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #46
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbkrawler View Post
and potentially the Yamaha SCSI board and the CF/SD SCSI solution unless you plan on loading up the DRAM via floppies/floppy emulators. It's pretty common for folks to take the SCSI board out and sell it separately since that SCSI controller works on a couple of pieces of Yamaha gear. I never had any luck doing sample transfers over SMDI.
Yeah I just loaded WAV files over floppy, it only took an hour or so to get all my fave waveforms into flash RAM, my custom ROMpler to last me til the end of my days
Old 4th June 2018
  #47
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpro600k View Post
Hi,

Have you ever used this?
I have used this, but I think that it is easier than operating with a panel of equipment.
Yamaha SY-TG77 editor – Ctrlr

I made these music with SY77.

Depth of field 4

ORCHE

ORCHE Crush

ORCHE Crush Ver.2

Thank you.


New tune ZERO.

Then, there is another new tune at the end of My Piano improvisation's thread.
Thanks for posting these. Are they 100% TG/SY?
Old 4th June 2018
  #48
Lives for gear
 
xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpro600k View Post
Hi,

Have you ever used this?
I have used this, but I think that it is easier than operating with a panel of equipment.
Yamaha SY-TG77 editor – Ctrlr

I made these music with SY77.

Depth of field 4

ORCHE

ORCHE Crush

ORCHE Crush Ver.2

Thank you.


New tune ZERO.

Then, there is another new tune at the end of My Piano improvisation's thread.
Orche Crush sounds like a 1988 day where something bad has happened and it’s made you feel ungrounded.
Old 4th June 2018
  #49
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Jpro600k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Thanks for posting these. Are they 100% TG/SY?

Hi,robotunes

except drum tracks and piano tracks is all.
Please check this.

Secret_10track_sy77 for Depth of field 4

Have fun!
Old 4th June 2018
  #50
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Jpro600k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Orche Crush sounds like a 1988 day where something bad has happened and it’s made you feel ungrounded.
Hi,xanderbeanz
Thank you for your listening!
Old 4th June 2018
  #51
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Just wanted to check, on my TG77, pressing operator and 1-6 turns them off and on, it’s pressing bank/select and then operator which cycles through them. Don’t know if that’s a sign of an earlier firmware or something.

Tonight I am going to try to program two sounds, some kind of ebow sound with RCM and wheel controllable harmonics, and some nasty nasty bass drum sounds that get brash with the wheel and maybe get noise modulated further up the keyboard for snares and percussive sounds.
Old 6th June 2018
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpro600k View Post
Hi,xanderbeanz
Thank you for your listening!
These sounds are fantastic, Jpro!!
Old 6th June 2018
  #53
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Pro5's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
I really like how the unit looks with the blue display, it’s like a retro blue synthesis playground that I don’t yet understand.

I got it, I think for a good price. £350 with the display already installed. eBay prices this year have had most SY77’s with stock displays at £300ish buy it now, and TG77’s with stock display at £395ish buy it now.

So I thought I’d pounce on this one. What do you think, decent deal? It had the manuals with it.
Decent is in the ear of the beholder.

I've had 2 SY77's and 1 TG77. I fitted the blue LED screen to one of the SY77s but later sold it. Parted out the other SY and sold the TG.

From memory the SY77 #1 cost me £120 with case (needed new screen as was a bit faded), SY77 #2 cost me £17 (kinda messed up but working) with pro filght case I later sold one of my V-Synths in. And TG77 cost me, I **** ye not, £77 all working.

This is going back to 2010 - 2013? though, like everything prices have gone up a bit now.

I was a big fan of the '77 and made loads of sounds, still got the floppies, posted some stuff on here comparing it to my DX7 II-D at the time (7 or so DX7s have come / gone through here over the years). DX7 had more bite, bit more vibe even the MK2 and the unison mode always sounded more exciting than the element layering on the SY. The SY however had a much more detailed and atmospheric sound, some of my best patches came from that biatch.

I got rid of them all along with all my other menu divers and digi-synths a couple years back as I got bored of being caught up in 'sound design' rather than song design. The only digi I kept was the JD-800 as it's instant, it sounds great and has my favourite filter of any digital synth I've had. Makes a good pal to my analogs, similar vibe, excellent sound. SY/DX/VSynth and others are great at sonic adventuring and weird stuff but life's too short for me (now) to be phuqing with super deep synths anymore. Am happy with what I have currently and no desire to ever 'go deep' again, especially with digital.
Old 6th June 2018
  #54
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Just wanted to check, on my TG77, pressing operator and 1-6 turns them off and on, it’s pressing bank/select and then operator which cycles through them. Don’t know if that’s a sign of an earlier firmware or something.
Nope. That's how it should be. I was quoting from memory which is a dangerous thing. My bad.

Quote:
Tonight I am going to try to program two sounds, some kind of ebow sound with RCM and wheel controllable harmonics, and some nasty nasty bass drum sounds that get brash with the wheel and maybe get noise modulated further up the keyboard for snares and percussive sounds.
How did your sounds turn out?
Old 6th June 2018
  #55
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Jpro600k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
These sounds are fantastic, Jpro!!

Hi,biggator6

Thank you so much!!
Old 6th June 2018
  #56
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Nope. That's how it should be. I was quoting from memory which is a dangerous thing. My bad.


How did your sounds turn out?
The Ebow sound worked fine, very dark and forboding. I had to set the keyscaling of certain operators, and dial in the right amount of distortion so it wasn’t too nasty and bright.

The percussion was great, highly responsive to velocity, with a nice clangy snare at the top and kicks down below, those kicks turning into nice robot YOWLS with more velocity.

I guess I’m gonna be forced to do a demo sooner or later...
Old 6th June 2018
  #57
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC8364R7 View Post
Reasonable. Got mine in Feb '18 for EUR 334, including the manuals; them and the unit look absolutely stunning, as if it was carefully put to a rack only once and left there, being controlled only via an editor. Still the original display, though.
I got mine in 1992 (or 1991, can't remember) for more than £1600.
Old 8th June 2018
  #58
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Nope. That's how it should be. I was quoting from memory which is a dangerous thing. My bad.


How did your sounds turn out?
Hi dude, thought I’d share an update.

Yesterday i experimented with some waveshaping, running some of the guitar PCMs through two 0hz operators, set at different phases to get a bit of gentle modulation going. Having the AWM lowpass filter set right, quite low, with velocity modulation on filter & volume kept things not too gnarly and with a nice degree of expression.

It was a nice tone, and I thought I’d leave it at that, but just because I like to d*ck around and explore things, I used the other input to OP2 to add OP3 to proceedings, and the whole thing became a rather lovely bright FM/String/Guitar thing, as the AWM and OP3 interacted inside OP2.

So then I assigned EGbias depth to the mod wheel to let me bring OP3 in from nothing.

The result, playing with the wheel, sounded much like my favourite EX7 sounds, where you start from the sample and add more phase modulation via the wheel, so I’ve cracked it, you can have that kind of sound now without buying another synth.

I’ll post a demo and sysex later, I’ll have to work the process out. Do I just press record in my DAW and do a bank dump on the TG, then save that as a midi file and change the extension to .SYX?

Any help would be appreciated.
Old 8th June 2018
  #59
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Hokut's Avatar
 

I got new display for my TG-77 which I have not been using because the whining sound... I didn't get time to install the new Display.
I cannot remember the exact name but I think there is a good iOS editor for the TG-77 which gives you touch control over everything, I will get it after I replace the display.

The SY-77 was my first synth workstation (many moons ago) and a few years back I got the TG-77 because I missed those FM sounds.
Old 8th June 2018
  #60
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
iOS editor would of course be cool to use, but I’ve managed within just over a week to get really fast on the inbuilt UI, even the envelopes, you may find that with a better screen you don’t even need an editor.

Most of the evenings this week I’ve had the TG77 on a chair, Minibrute on top of it connected via midi, and me lying on the carpet just messing about with sounds, it’s been a comfy synth heaven.
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