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Tc electronics make roland juno chorus
Old 17th May 2019
  #601
Here for the gear
 

Hi,
I’m a new member here and have just received my June 60 through Thomann.
I’ve had a quick play and have noticed that in order to get it to sound right it needs to be used as a send effect on a mixer.
Looking into the tech specs of the original Juno chorus, the output was a 1:1 mix of dry and chorus. It seems the pedal outputs a stereo wet only and doesn’t actually create the wide chorus effect until the dry is mixed in on the desk.
In other words what this thing really needed from the start is a mix knob.
It’s interesting on the mixer to set it 100% chorus and feed in the dry signal. There is a point when the mix is right that the real stereo magic happens. It’s almost like there is a phase inversion on one of the stereo channels that doesn’t do much until the dry is mixed back in.
I’m not totally happy with it but then I’m used to the deep swirl of the Alpha Juno chorus.
I just wanted to share my findings as no one has seemed to notice that it needs the dry signal mixed in!
Old 17th May 2019
  #602
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkestyugo View Post
Hi,
I’m a new member here and have just received my June 60 through Thomann.
I’ve had a quick play and have noticed that in order to get it to sound right it needs to be used as a send effect on a mixer.
Looking into the tech specs of the original Juno chorus, the output was a 1:1 mix of dry and chorus. It seems the pedal outputs a stereo wet only and doesn’t actually create the wide chorus effect until the dry is mixed in on the desk.
In other words what this thing really needed from the start is a mix knob.
It’s interesting on the mixer to set it 100% chorus and feed in the dry signal. There is a point when the mix is right that the real stereo magic happens. It’s almost like there is a phase inversion on one of the stereo channels that doesn’t do much until the dry is mixed back in.
I’m not totally happy with it but then I’m used to the deep swirl of the Alpha Juno chorus.
I just wanted to share my findings as no one has seemed to notice that it needs the dry signal mixed in!
That’s interesting, and possibly very handy. Does it tone down that excessive tremolo effect?
Old 17th May 2019
  #603
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tore @ TC View Post
Hey guys,

Being the head of all things pedals at TC (and a long time lurker here at Gearslutz), I just wanted to chime in here.

First of all I'm really glad you guys like the pedal. The response we've gotten so far has been overwhelming and quite frankly a bit surprising considering it's "just" a chorus pedal.

Secondly I do feel the need to address a few of the things said about TC Electronic being purchased by Behringer (although technically it's Music Group, but let's not split hairs here).

Yes - we are now owned by another company - one that I know has a tendency to cause heated discussions on certain forums. But the TC I go to work at every day is still very much its own company and the products we choose to do is in no way dictated by anybody else. In fact the only radical difference is the fact that the engineering department is now almost doubled compared to what it was before. This enables us to make far more products than ever before as well as take on more risky and research-heavy projects... projects we most definitely would have never had the resources to do "in the old days".

Products like our new MASH-enabled pedals as well as some incredibly exciting new projects we're currently working on in both the studio and guitar departments (that I unfortunately can't tell you guys about yet), would have never seen the light of day, had it not been for the massive investments from Music Group and Uli Behringer.

As someone who has spent 15 years working here and pretty much live and breathe TC guitar effects every day, I can honestly say that I personally am truly excited about all the incredible possibilities we have suddenly gotten to being able realise even the most challenging and innovative ideas we've come up with over the years and that we will strive to turn them into equally amazing products for you guys.

Cheers,
Tore
Perhaps make a real example of a Fairlight IIx and I’ll show you the blatant meaning of sheer propaganda! “Propaganda” the band naturally! Or re-release the TC2290 and Tri Chorus to numerous TC Racks and then, I’ll believe it all! Won’t say the RD808-909 aren’t something though? Brilliant work!
Old 18th May 2019
  #604
Here for the gear
 

Yes it does to an extent. The chorus LFO is definitely too fast though. I think it's up around 1.2Hz or so.


I have the effects return going to its own stereo channel on the mixer and when it's set to 100% wet, ie just the pedal, it's very much a weird pulsing almost mono signal. There's no stereo width at all.
Only by introducing the dry does it interact with the wet and produce the stereo. On its own, the output from the pedal does not sound right.
Old 18th May 2019
  #605
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkestyugo View Post
Yes it does to an extent. The chorus LFO is definitely too fast though. I think it's up around 1.2Hz or so.


I have the effects return going to its own stereo channel on the mixer and when it's set to 100% wet, ie just the pedal, it's very much a weird pulsing almost mono signal. There's no stereo width at all.
Only by introducing the dry does it interact with the wet and produce the stereo. On its own, the output from the pedal does not sound right.
That's really interesting and unexpected ... maybe there's a lesson for designers in there ... thanks for posting
Old 18th May 2019
  #606
Lives for gear
 

So basically somebody just put some random board or parts in a casing, painted it Juno style, and shipped it. What a mess!
Old 18th May 2019
  #607
Lives for gear
 

Same statement for me: received mine this morning and tested it on my Andromeda.
The pedal itself is well finished and even beautiful... visually!
Sonically it is a double disappointment.
- first all speeds are twice faster as they should to be usable on synth pads
- the stereo only works if you mix the signal with the original signal.
-the chorus sound itself is very muddy.

Ok: that makes it a triple disappointment :(

Anyway: lightyears away from my Maxon CS550 (still my favorite) and even from a TC SCF...
Or even the Boss DC-2w (in the “light chorus” category, albeit true stereo in).

—> I will return the pedal to Thomann.

I guess this is a missed opportunity :(
Old 18th May 2019
  #608
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinw View Post
Same statement for me: received mine this morning and tested it on my Andromeda.
The pedal itself is well finished and even beautiful... visually!
Sonically it is a double disappointment.
- first all speeds are twice faster as they should to be usable on synth pads
- the stereo only works if you mix the signal with the original signal.
-the chorus sound itself is very muddy.

Ok: that makes it a triple disappointment :(

Anyway: lightyears away from my Maxon CS550 (still my favorite) and even from a TC SCF...
Or even the Boss DC-2w (in the “light chorus” category, albeit true stereo in).

—> I will return the pedal to Thomann.

I guess this is a missed opportunity :(
Shame :(. So, using it as a send doesn’t save it then?
Old 19th May 2019
  #609
Gear Maniac
Old 19th May 2019
  #610
Lives for gear
 
Klankdroid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinw View Post
Same statement for me: received mine this morning and tested it on my Andromeda.
The pedal itself is well finished and even beautiful... visually!
Sonically it is a double disappointment.
- first all speeds are twice faster as they should to be usable on synth pads
- the stereo only works if you mix the signal with the original signal.
-the chorus sound itself is very muddy.

Ok: that makes it a triple disappointment :(

Anyway: lightyears away from my Maxon CS550 (still my favorite) and even from a TC SCF...
Or even the Boss DC-2w (in the “light chorus” category, albeit true stereo in).

—> I will return the pedal to Thomann.

I guess this is a missed opportunity :(

What I find really strange is there is no word from an engineer who can explain why this is such a mess and failure, where did it go wrong and why did they release it like that.... I know it is not something Uli cant say much about because it is not technically under his Behringer umbrella but a sister company, but still I think Uli should adres this and see what can be done to put maybe an updated one out .... Sad because this was the chance to have a juno chorus with the Deepmind 12
Old 19th May 2019
  #611
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannykorrson View Post
You've linked that badly - so that the video doesn't play.
But, from that video, it does show you can lower the speed and depth, although not as much as would make me want to buy it - and it also seems to have no stereo width to it at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=hv4eXQBmXJg
Old 19th May 2019
  #612
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klankdroid View Post
What I find really strange is there is no word from an engineer who can explain why this is such a mess and failure, where did it go wrong and why did they release it like that.... I know it is not something Uli cant say much about because it is not technically under his Behringer umbrella but a sister company, but still I think Uli should adres this and see what can be done to put maybe an updated one out .... Sad because this was the chance to have a juno chorus with the Deepmind 12
You can setup the deepmind chorus to get a nice quite Junoesque feeling.MUCH closer than this pedal at least.Ironic,no?
Old 20th May 2019
  #613
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klankdroid View Post
What I find really strange is there is no word from an engineer who can explain why this is such a mess and failure, where did it go wrong and why did they release it like that.... I know it is not something Uli cant say much about because it is not technically under his Behringer umbrella but a sister company, but still I think Uli should adres this and see what can be done to put maybe an updated one out .... Sad because this was the chance to have a juno chorus with the Deepmind 12
That's all smoke and mirrors.

They won't own this one.
Old 20th May 2019
  #614
Deleted 0fc8128
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinw View Post
Same statement for me: received mine this morning and tested it on my Andromeda.
The pedal itself is well finished and even beautiful... visually!
Sonically it is a double disappointment.
- first all speeds are twice faster as they should to be usable on synth pads
- the stereo only works if you mix the signal with the original signal.
-the chorus sound itself is very muddy.

Ok: that makes it a triple disappointment :(

Anyway: lightyears away from my Maxon CS550 (still my favorite) and even from a TC SCF...
Or even the Boss DC-2w (in the “light chorus” category, albeit true stereo in).

—> I will return the pedal to Thomann.

I guess this is a missed opportunity :(
You must be part of the overwhelming response then.
Old 21st May 2019
  #615
Gear Maniac
 

here is a quick and dirty demo with 3 different looped phrases. It’s a pretty rushed demo because frankly I’ve really lost my passion for doing demos like this. First 2 loops are with a Sequential Rev2, the 3rd leady loop is a Moog Grandmother



Here are my thoughts.

TC Electronic JUNE-60 - To be honest I was super bummed to hear the demos of it online. It definitely sounded like the LFO was dialed way too fast and it is but really for what it is it's actually a pretty respectable pedal. The main thing with it is it is not a “forget its on” type effect. It's very apparent.

DOD FX65 - For this application, the FX65 for me is so close to my favourite. This pedal is a must have for anyone who likes this effect. It can get way more sea sick sounding and is subtle enough to want to keep it on all the time.

Boss MD-500 - When focusing on the chorus effects (ignoring that it does many others) it does a fantastic job. I find the pedal a bit complicated and haven’t used it much and it does have a slight tinge to the sound that is noticable, whatever that is.

Boss CE-2w - My favourite for guitar, practically never turn it off. It has a great tone enhancing quality on CE-1 mode that is fantastic for guitar. For synths I find it doesn’t sound great in stereo, which for synths is pretty much a deal breaker. But on a mono synth or guitar this is a KILLER pedal.

Boss DC-2w - My absolute favourite for synths. Its stereo in and out and it adds its effect in a major way but never over powers. It's truly the king of the castle for an always on stereo widening effect. Truly awesome, and after all this will definitely be the main chorus for my Rev2 moving forward.

Here is a link to a direct comparison between the JUNE-60 and TAL CHORUS. Basically 8 bars of 4 chords, we go: No effect - JUNE-60 I - JUNE-60 II - TAL I - TAL II .



Comparing directly, the JUNE-60 shows that it does not stay true to the legacy that is the Juno chorus. Which ultimately is really disappointing. It's not a bad sounding chorus, but it is not in any way close to the lineage it is based on.
Old 21st May 2019
  #616
Here for the gear
 

Has anyone tried modding this thing yet? Maybe adding a dry/wet mix knob or messing with the LFO-cap's can improve some things, if the board and enclosure are accessible enough.
Old 21st May 2019
  #617
Lives for gear
 
ranzee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine View Post
I think there's a few issues going on. The tremelo/LFO effect on the JUNE-60 is way off, and there needs to be a way we can control it. There's another video on YouTube where a guy has opened one up and there's 2 x adjustment pots inside. These needed to be proper knobs on the outside - so a mod needs to happen here. There's literally no bottom end on the audio going through the pedal. The Juno has a beautfiul sound - and the pedal just chokes all the beauty away. There must be some terrible D/A or dodgy audio amp circuit in there. It isn't dynamic at all. The stereo width is also noticeably narrower on the pedal. The Juno has a much wider stereo sphere.

I'm starting to wonder if TC Electronic had to make this pedal different with Roland breathing down their necks? Perhaps they weren't allowed to do a direct copy - lawyers etc. Who knows? That didn't stop them from doing the MS-101 and the VC340 ... Anyway - 3 big missing issues that really makes it disappointing. I'm thinking about cancelling my pre-order now.
Old 21st May 2019
  #618
Lives for gear
 
ranzee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondongo View Post
Has anyone tried modding this thing yet? Maybe adding a dry/wet mix knob or messing with the LFO-cap's can improve some things, if the board and enclosure are accessible enough.
If I don't cancel my pre-order and end up getting one, I'll definitely be modding mine.

There needs 4 mods in my opinion:

1) convert the 2 x adjustment trim pots into top mounted pots with knobs
2) fix the EQ - somehow ... capacitor hopefully will do it (but I'm yet to physically hold one in my hand to verify this)
3) fix the stereo width - shouldn't be too hard? just need to find out what chip they've used to do that.
4) add a wet/dry mix
Old 21st May 2019
  #619
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pewtershmit View Post

Here are my thoughts.

TC Electronic JUNE-60 - To be honest I was super bummed to hear the demos of it online. It definitely sounded like the LFO was dialed way too fast and it is but really for what it is it's actually a pretty respectable pedal. The main thing with it is it is not a “forget its on” type effect. It's very apparent.

DOD FX65 - For this application, the FX65 for me is so close to my favourite. This pedal is a must have for anyone who likes this effect. It can get way more sea sick sounding and is subtle enough to want to keep it on all the time.

Boss MD-500 - When focusing on the chorus effects (ignoring that it does many others) it does a fantastic job. I find the pedal a bit complicated and haven’t used it much and it does have a slight tinge to the sound that is noticable, whatever that is.

Boss CE-2w - My favourite for guitar, practically never turn it off. It has a great tone enhancing quality on CE-1 mode that is fantastic for guitar. For synths I find it doesn’t sound great in stereo, which for synths is pretty much a deal breaker. But on a mono synth or guitar this is a KILLER pedal.

Boss DC-2w - My absolute favourite for synths. Its stereo in and out and it adds its effect in a major way but never over powers. It's truly the king of the castle for an always on stereo widening effect. Truly awesome, and after all this will definitely be the main chorus for my Rev2 moving forward.

Here is a link to a direct comparison between the JUNE-60 and TAL CHORUS. Basically 8 bars of 4 chords, we go: No effect - JUNE-60 I - JUNE-60 II - TAL I - TAL II .

Comparing directly, the JUNE-60 shows that it does not stay true to the legacy that is the Juno chorus. Which ultimately is really disappointing. It's not a bad sounding chorus, but it is not in any way close to the lineage it is based on.
Thanks very much for this - really very useful and gave me a great insight into a number of pedals that I'm interested in.
Stephen.
Old 21st May 2019
  #620
Here for the gear
 

Dear all

Hi, my name's Scotty. I'm the new product category leader for guitar and bass at TC Electronic in Denmark.
I've been following this thread about the JUNE 60 pedal and I just wanted to chime in and clear a couple of things up.

TC Electronic is a part of*Music Tribe. This means we have*access to an amazing array of shared services within the group such as a wide distribution network and fantastic manufacturing and supply services which let us provide customers with great products but at an affordable price.

However, all TC Electronic products are designed and developed in-house by the same R&D team here in Denmark that brought you all of the great classics which TC have become known for.

The JUNE 60 is a pedal that TC designed to be an excellent retro chorus for guitar and bass. The circuit is based around the chorus circuit from the Juno but it isn't a clone. We tweaked and changed the circuit to be most suitable for guitar and bass. Having said that, you can use it with keys and synths but it will not be the same as a Juno. It will be it's own thing.

It's been valuable to be able to read everyone's thoughts about the pedal on here and just to let you know, we do read the forums and we do pay notice to what customers are searching for. It's great to see so much interest surrounding this product and this thread has certainly given us a lot of food for thought.

As for customers still waiting for delivery of their pre-orders, we are trying our best to get the products to you ASAP and we can only apologize for the delay. We hope you will be very happy with your purchase when it arrives.


Scotty
TC Electronic
tcelectronic.com
Old 21st May 2019
  #621
Lives for gear
 

It was the switch to stereo inputs that fuelled the speculation ... well, along with the livery ... and the name. Not surprising that expectations were up from synth heads really, but the clarification is welcome, if too late for some - thanks.
Old 21st May 2019
  #622
Here for the gear
 

Hi Scotty,

(new account here, long time lurker)

I appreciate you posting here, please let me share my thoughts about the June-60.

I had high expectations for the June-60, especially for use with synthesizers. But I am a little bit disappointed to hear now that it's not a replica (or even close to it) and the sound demo's aren't very encouraging unfortunately.

The name 'June-60' is obvious a referral to the Juno-6, and that's a synthesiser, not a guitar, as we all know. So, it's not strange that most people had certain expectations. We were all very excited!

But now you're saying it's more for (bass) guitars. I don't get that, to be honest. If it's a pedal for guitars, and not an exact replica of a chorus from an iconic synthesizer, but some kind of retro pedal, then you should have used another name imho.

-> My question would be, is it possible to make a offerable Juno-6 chorus clone, and is that still an option for the future? I really think it would sell like hotcakes.

I'm sad to say, that I'm not interested anymore in the June-60, and I think I'm not alone in that conclusion.

I hope I don't come across as being rude, that's certainly not my intention.

Cheers,
David
Old 21st May 2019
  #623
Gear Maniac
 

I appreciate you being clear with us Scotty, but I gotta say I don't know what is more believable;

1. The idea that TC took a chorus from one of the most sought after synths around, made it look like the synth but designed it for guitar players

or

2. That you guys simply just weren't able to nail the sound, for reasons. (of which there are many perfectly reasonable ones)

Frankly if its 1, you guys really need to do some better market research. The idea guitar players would give two poops about a chorus like this, over the myriads of other options available is silly. This chorus circuit isn't even that great, the draw is that it is part of the juno "sound". guitar players don't give a hoot about a chorus found in a dated 80s synth they would have never plugged into to begin with.
Old 21st May 2019
  #624
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyTC View Post
Dear Gearslutterz

Hi, my name's Scotty. I'm the new product manager for guitar and bass at TC Electronic in Denmark.
I've been following this thread about the JUNE 60 pedal and I just wanted to chime in and clear a couple of things up.

TC Electronic is a part of MUSIC TRIBE, which is owned by Mr. Behringer. This means we have access to an amazing array of shared services within the group such as a wide distribution network and fantastic manufacturing and supply services which let us provide customers with great products but at an affordable price.

However, all TC Electronic products are designed and developed in-house by the same R&D team here in Denmark that brought you all of the great classics which TC have become known for.

The JUNE 60 is a pedal that TC designed to be an excellent retro chorus for guitar and bass. The circuit is based around the chorus from the JUNO but it isn't a clone. We tweaked and changed the circuit to be most suitable for guitar and bass. Having said that, you can use it with keys and synths but it will not be the same as a JUNO. It will be it's own thing, love it or hate it.

It's amazing to be able to read everyone's thoughts about the pedal on here and just to let you know, we do read the forums and we do pay notice to what customers are searching for. It's great to see so much interest surrounding this product and this thread has certainly given us a lot of food for thought.

As for customers still waiting for delivery of their pre-orders, we are trying our best to get the products to you ASAP and we can only apologize for the delay. We hope you will be very happy with your purchase when it arrives.


Best regards
Thanks

Scotty
Old 21st May 2019
  #625
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

LOL who do they think they're fooling with this "for guitar & bass" jive.

You can read this thread from the start and find where Uli posts about making it stereo "as per our request."

Tc electronics make roland juno chorus

Old 21st May 2019
  #626
Lives for gear
Old 22nd May 2019
  #627
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyTC View Post
The JUNE 60 is a pedal that TC designed to be an excellent retro chorus for guitar and bass. The circuit is based around the chorus from the JUNO but it isn't a clone. We tweaked and changed the circuit to be most suitable for guitar and bass. Having said that, you can use it with keys and synths but it will not be the same as a JUNO. It will be it's own thing, love it or hate it.
I have to admit this sounds very strange to me.. For the same reasons that has been mentioned above. I'm no guitarist, but yeah.. this pedal has some strong competition out there in the chorus category. I think this was a missed opportunity for TC Electronic. But most of all for us synth slutz waiting impatiently while the June-60 was in development. You got a lot of enthusiastic (and possibly very useful) feedback from the community in this thread, so I think it's only natural there's a feeling of disappointment.

If you knew the whole time during the development of the June-60 pedal that it would not even be an attempt at cloning the famous Juno 60 chorus (which IS strange, given the name and look of the pedal), why didn't you share this information in the thread at an earlier stage? You're absolutely not obliged to of course, but I just think it wiould be fair, since you must have know the whole time that we were hoping for a clone and giving you feedback based on that.

As it is, it seems you hit somewhere in between a great chorus for guitarists - and no less than the holy grail for us synthesists.

But thank you for shedding some light on your goals and target market with the June-60, Scotty! Much appreciated!
Old 22nd May 2019
  #628
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyTC View Post
The circuit is based around the chorus from the JUNO but it isn't a clone.
This whole thing is so strange. AFAIK, TC was never a company that copied other brands look and feel like that. So now you have, but it's not actually a clone? This is like the worst of both worlds! You should have done it the other way around. An exact clone of the circuit but with your own original name and graphics. Literally nobody would have a problem with that. Why is this so hard for Music Tribe to understand?
Old 22nd May 2019
  #629
Gear Addict
 

From January 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by WozNYC View Post
Curious... to all of the people saying things like "this is a must-buy" and "classy design"... have you actually HEARD the unit yet or do you just like the way IT LOOKS?
LOL, how prescient!
Old 22nd May 2019
  #630
Gear Maniac
 

I have a feeling this is why it was reduced to $50. They knew the didn’t nail it so they went forward with a cheaper price point so it’s kind of too cheap to complain about.

It is a decent sounding chorus. I just hope they see the value in continuing with the concept for version2: the synth version.
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