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Blown away by Toraiz AS-1
Old 15th February 2020
  #391
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark View Post
Good assessment. I've had the AS-1 longer than the SE-02, my fwiw -at gunpoint I would keep the SE-02, basically because it's the first 3-osc mono synth I've owned and there is a sonic 'deep' there that 2-osc and sub don't quite manage, it does classic moogyness in a way that none of the other analog synths I have (Alpha Juno 2, Mopho, Monologue, AS-1) do.

But - there are so many ways in which, as a box in itself, the AS-1 is much the better purchase. They're such similar boxes in a corporate way, Pioneer/DSI vs Roland/SE and - Roland fanboiz - Pioneer win on their input irrespective of midi issues. For starters, with the SE-02 you will need to figure in the extra cost of the K-25 mini keyboard. I thought I could do without it, didn't last the weekend.

Also - the SE-02's MF MINI-JACK SOCKETS. And the global volume control hidden toy-like fashion round the back with no obvious visual way of calibrating it to anything else. And since the SE-02 has a lot of onboard mod wheel functionality, you'd'a thought for a centimetre or so of extra depth they could have given the K-25 a pitchbend and modwheel, but no, too much to ask.

Now that I've used it, the SE-02's separation of sequencer/patch makes sense and has its merits but I still think 512 fixed/128 user patch memories vs the AS-1's 495 fixed/495 user is shoddy.
Yes I do agree with you about the patch memory heresy on the SE02,128 presets that you can't overwrite is a shame when you just have 128 presets you can overwrite.
Btw,I don't own the K-25 keyboard for the SE02,I use my main big midi keyboad.
Sure it's not the perfect synth,but it's "just" a $450 synth.For me it's awesome for this price,way better than a Boog,a lot more sound possibilities.

The AS-1 is not perfect too,it has very little knobs on its layout.Personnally I would prefer to see more knobs but no capacitive keyboard .
It's damn a shame you can't automate the slider,it's a shme you can't select like on the SE02 if you want the modwheel works with the LFO or with,let's say the filter.
This As-1 would need a good firmware update to improve its knobs' features.
Old 15th February 2020
  #392
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suckerformimi View Post
I had both but sold my SE-02. They are completely different. I thought the SE-02 was my dream synth until it showed up. The XMOD section doesn't do any slow modulation, including PWM! The sequencer parameter locks hold the value until the next lock. I did love the sound. Very wild and open. I found that it was best at very frontal lead sounds. And of course basses, but I get better reactions to my AS-1 bass sounds.
You know you can make slow PWM modulations with the SE02?
you must set the Osc3 at the same octave or one octave higher,slightly detuned to the OSC1 and OSC2.
I like the sound of the PWM when it's fast too,you gat unusual sounds that I find interesting.


I also tried to connect the SE02's headphones output to the SE02's audio input,and it sounds very sweet,the filter gets even more saturated.You can set the saturation by setting the oscillators levels and the audio output in the hidden menu.
If you set everything clockwise and you add a bit of Feedback,the SE02 becomes badass,lovely!The you don't need any distortion pedal!
Old 15th February 2020
  #393
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLadder View Post
You know you can make slow PWM modulations with the SE02?
you must set the Osc3 at the same octave or one octave higher,slightly detuned to the OSC1 and OSC2.
I like the sound of the PWM when it's fast too,you gat unusual sounds that I find interesting.


I also tried to connect the SE02's headphones output to the SE02's audio input,and it sounds very sweet,the filter gets even more saturated.You can set the saturation by setting the oscillators levels and the audio output in the hidden menu.
If you set everything clockwise and you add a bit of Feedback,the SE02 becomes badass,lovely!The you don't need any distortion pedal!
I'm just trying to highlight some differences. The PWM is a pretty big difference between the two synths. I didn't mean to create an SE-02 thread or flame that synth. It's a great synth but very different from ASM-1.
Old 15th February 2020
  #394
Gear Nut
 

I just wanted you to know how to do slow PWM if you didn't manage how to do it.I just wanted to give somebody few tricks to be helpful.Of course it's very different from the AS-1.
Both are fantastic mono synths.

I would like to make a comparison between the AS-1 and the Behringer Pro-1.Do you own the Pro-1 ?
Old 16th February 2020
  #395
Lives for gear
 
badmark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLadder View Post
Yes I do agree with you about the patch memory heresy on the SE02,128 presets that you can't overwrite is a shame when you just have 128 presets you can overwrite.
Btw,I don't own the K-25 keyboard for the SE02,I use my main big midi keyboad.
Sure it's not the perfect synth,but it's "just" a $450 synth.For me it's awesome for this price,way better than a Boog,a lot more sound possibilities.

The AS-1 is not perfect too,it has very little knobs on its layout.Personnally I would prefer to see more knobs but no capacitive keyboard .
It's damn a shame you can't automate the slider,it's a shme you can't select like on the SE02 if you want the modwheel works with the LFO or with,let's say the filter.
This As-1 would need a good firmware update to improve its knobs' features.
What the AS-1 needs are a couple of freely assignable knobs like the Mopho module has. It would also be nice when you're clocking it externally if you could change patches and rely on it keeping sync like the Mopho does

I'm not a great fan of the capacitive keyboard either - the keys sort of make me feel like I'm poking the tops of little chocolate soufflés - but at least when I need to use it I look at it and have a clue what note I'm going to hit whereas the SE-02 set-up is like the Monotribe and the Volca ones, just too small to be feasible for live performing.

Also on my wishlist for an AS-1 firmware update would be able to assign a negative value to the pitchbend, which you can do in the Mopho, and a lot wider choice of things you can assign the slider to.

Can't help on the Boogs etc., they didn't have them in the stores I was in last month. For me, no presets, yeah, no, life's too short.
Old 15th March 2020
  #396
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badmark's Avatar
Not without some wacky AS-1 issues I now have it as the master clock controller of the system:

Old 15th March 2020
  #397
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark View Post
Not without some wacky AS-1 issues I now have it as the master clock controller of the system:

If all your synths are connected to your DAW,try to untick the midi time code option in your DAW.I noticed the AS-1 behaves better without the midi time code.

I also noticed some very nasty phasing between oscillators if the hard sync is not enabled.It's really annoying for basses,the sounds is either loud,then disappears,then come back loud again,then disappears again,etc...
I have tried to detune or not the oscillators,I have tried the slope setting too,but nothing works.
I also tried to calibrate the AS-1 again and again once it's warm,but with no result.


Do you have this problem with your AS-1?
Old 16th March 2020
  #398
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badmark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLadder View Post
If all your synths are connected to your DAW,try to untick the midi time code option in your DAW.I noticed the AS-1 behaves better without the midi time code.

I also noticed some very nasty phasing between oscillators if the hard sync is not enabled.It's really annoying for basses,the sounds is either loud,then disappears,then come back loud again,then disappears again,etc...
I have tried to detune or not the oscillators,I have tried the slope setting too,but nothing works.
I also tried to calibrate the AS-1 again and again once it's warm,but with no result.


Do you have this problem with your AS-1?
No, no DAW except to record. Big problem is that the AS-1 volume knob punts out Midi controller messages even with everything but master clock turned off. Drum machine isn't affected but it overrides the volume knobs on the synths downstream.

I think I know what you mean about the sync off. Having both oscillators free running can I guess in itself cause a bit of it, but from years of using a Mopho module (DCO rather than VCO if that makes a difference) I certainly have filed under the 'huh?' category that if (e.g.) on the AS-1 I have Osc2 at C1, then turning Osc1 from E1 to F1 can give very abrupt shifts in volume and tonality. The other 2 vco monosynths I have operate on the 16', 8' principle so it's not easy to compare states.
Old 16th March 2020
  #399
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark View Post
No, no DAW except to record. Big problem is that the AS-1 volume knob punts out Midi controller messages even with everything but master clock turned off. Drum machine isn't affected but it overrides the volume knobs on the synths downstream.

I think I know what you mean about the sync off. Having both oscillators free running can I guess in itself cause a bit of it, but from years of using a Mopho module (DCO rather than VCO if that makes a difference) I certainly have filed under the 'huh?' category that if (e.g.) on the AS-1 I have Osc2 at C1, then turning Osc1 from E1 to F1 can give very abrupt shifts in volume and tonality. The other 2 vco monosynths I have operate on the 16', 8' principle so it's not easy to compare states.
I meant when I have on the AS-1 (for instance) the osc1 on C2 and the osc2 on C2 or C1 (so both oscillators on the same note,same octave or 1 octave up or down from each other) and I play some notes,the sound is loud,then disappears quite completely (the level I hear drops drastically),then few seconds later it becomes loud again,and then few seconds later disappears,etc,etc,etc....
If I want a "thick and stable" bassline I must hard sync the Osc1 to the Osc2 and I use the Suboscillator which is one octave lower than the Osc2.Then on the mixer section I set 0 for the Osc1,127 for the Osc2 and 127 for the Suboscillator.
When I use the oscillators in this configuration,I haven't any problem of phasing between the oscillators anymore.But I can't use the Osc1 and OSC2 together (for basslines,because for leads the problem is less noticeable).
Old 16th March 2020
  #400
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badmark's Avatar
I'll see if I can replicate that later. The sub is an octave below Osc1, though, not Osc2, the layout is misleading.
Old 16th March 2020
  #401
Gear Nut
 

Yes you're right,that's what I meant,I made a typing error,sorry.
Old 17th March 2020
  #402
Lives for gear
 
badmark's Avatar
Between the basic patch and mucking about with others turning off all pulse width, modulation etc, I couldn't really get anything that sounds as drastic as you're describing.
Old 26th March 2020
  #403
Gear Maniac
I had the same experience, wanted to buy one since that day but always had other priorities. Finally got one used for 400 EUR and in my opinion it beats almost all monosynths currently on the market in terms of depth, the filter, and the effects especially, they are super high quality as expected from DSI. All in all its the best value for this kind of money around. And there are full VST implementations too in case you wanna use it from your DAW. Really amazing little box.
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