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Expert Sleepers ES-40/ESX-8MD CUBASE HELL
Old 9th September 2017
  #1
Deleted 80b9b09
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Expert Sleepers ES-40/ESX-8MD CUBASE HELL

Hi All

Is anyone using the above combo and able to share how the heck to get the darned thing working?

I'm tearing my hair out here.

Previously followed instructions from the USAMO thread which is old as the hills.

I've got a Digital SP/DIF cable running from my MR816 into the ES-40. It's lighting up red, so I presume that's a sign it's working.

Yet no matter how I mess around with the Silent Way software and grouped tracks in Cubase, I can't get it working. I presume if MIDI info was being received by the ESX-8MD, it'd light up on the relevant channel.

A bit of a nightmare, really - can't seem to get it working.

Has anyone got any advice/instructions?

When I set the output of the group track to the ES-40 output, the channel light is up full on the Mixing Console, and if I play MIDI through it, I get this god-awful clicking sound.

HELP!
Old 9th September 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Sounds like the Silent Way data isn't being routed to your SPDIF out. Usual culprit is your audio interfaces DSP mixer not being routed properly.

If you can here a clicking sound that means the Silent Way data-as-audio stream is being routed to your speakers. So you'll hear a click for a note on followed by click for a note off etc.
Old 9th September 2017 | Show parent
  #3
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand View Post
Sounds like the Silent Way data isn't being routed to your SPDIF out. Usual culprit is your audio interfaces DSP mixer not being routed properly.

If you can here a clicking sound that means the Silent Way data-as-audio stream is being routed to your speakers. So you'll hear a click for a note on followed by click for a note off etc.
Thanks, Dan.

That gives me a starting point!

Tearing my hair out here. The Silent Way software isn't the most intuitive and the ES site and tutorials aren't the greatest.

Fantastic products, don't get me wrong, but a little difficult to get going with.
Old 10th September 2017
  #4
Gear Addict
 
umptanum's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
When I was setting mine up, the problem I had is the software defaults to having cv's "on" (because it's the software for the es-4) which screws with the signal.

Once you turn that section off everything should just work... at least it did for me.
Old 10th September 2017
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Endorfinity's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Clicking is definitely sign of Silent Way output routed not to SPDIF
Old 10th September 2017
  #6
Deleted 80b9b09
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Thank you all.

I shall keep trying.
Old 10th September 2017
  #7
Deleted 80b9b09
Guest
Eight hours in. Still no solution.

I've tested the SPDIF cable from my Access Virus TI output into the MR-816.

Curiously, if I use the MR Editor (software for the interface), I can see the digital signal on the SPDIF channel, and then I can also hear it.

When I load Cubase 9 Pro (using a Mac) I set up the connection as a digital input, and no signal IN. I'm presuming there's something I'm missing which is causing this. If I can't get audio INTO Cubase, that'll be why it's seemingly not leaving Cubase to go to the ES-40.

FFS. This is becoming tedious now.

If I do use the output, I'm getting the clicking sounds, in line with the above suggestions.
Old 10th September 2017
  #8
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Have you watched the Expert Sleepers videos?
I have to say, sometimes you are lucky with their stuff, other times you are days pulling your hair out trying to get it going. I find most of the ES products are opaque to understand, while at the same time very fussy about how they are set up.
I can only suggest stripping it back to the basics and get each stage working before you progress to the next.
Have you got the ES40 working as a midi to cv and gate?
I also never use the full Silent Way software - only the controller software (free) which is designed to power their hardware modules.
Once you have the ES40 working as cv and gate, you can try and attach the ESX-8MD and it should work (mine did).
Old 10th September 2017 | Show parent
  #9
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Have you watched the Expert Sleepers videos?
I have to say, sometimes you are lucky with their stuff, other times you are days pulling your hair out trying to get it going. I find most of the ES products are opaque to understand, while at the same time very fussy about how they are set up.
I can only suggest stripping it back to the basics and get each stage working before you progress to the next.
Have you got the ES40 working as a midi to cv and gate?
I also never use the full Silent Way software - only the controller software (free) which is designed to power their hardware modules.
Once you have the ES40 working as cv and gate, you can try and attach the ESX-8MD and it should work (mine did).
Thanks Chrisso. Apologies - I'm using the free controller software, not the full package. All I'm attempting to do is to connect the ESX-8MD to MIDI devices.

I've now unearthed a PITA digital issue in Cubase Pro 9 - I've set up all the appropriate digital SPDIF inputs (to test), and despite it working in the MR Editor, Cubase isn't monitoring or showing the digital signal. I'm guessing this is the issue, not the ES stuff.
Old 10th September 2017
  #10
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm using Live, PT and an Apollo, so it's hard for me to advise.
Old 10th September 2017 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 80b9b09 View Post
if I use the MR Editor (software for the interface), I can see the digital signal on the SPDIF channel, and then I can also hear it.
A screenshot of the MR Editor might help.
Old 10th September 2017
  #12
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This is the ES4 set up for Cubase:


I think it's pretty similar to the ES40 (just the newer version).
Old 10th September 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
In your Control Panel, page 31 in the manual:




Have you set the 'Digital I/O, External FX' to one of the SPDIF settings boxed in red below:





Otherwise it looks like you lose the SPDIF channels into and out of your DAW if you select 'ADAT'.
Old 10th September 2017 | Show parent
  #14
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand View Post
In your Control Panel, page 31 in the manual:




Have you set the 'Digital I/O, External FX' to one of the SPDIF settings boxed in red below:





Otherwise it looks like you lose the SPDIF channels into and out of your DAW if you select 'ADAT'.
Thanks for the input, Dan.

Yes. I selected the correct options from the editor. Even got the sound coming in digitally in the MR Editor. Just not in Cubase. Interesting.
Old 10th September 2017 | Show parent
  #15
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
This is the ES4 set up for Cubase:


I think it's pretty similar to the ES40 (just the newer version).
So you need the Voice Controller plug in part as well as the ES-4 Voice Controller? Two plugs
Old 11th September 2017
  #16
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
They are one and the same?
You download the Voice Controller software from ES.
Then you launch ES on a virtual instrument track and control your midi instruments from there (if memory serves me).
Anyway, I find if you follow the videos strictly it gets you more quickly to a functioning system.
Old 11th September 2017
  #17
Deleted 80b9b09
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Thanks Chrisso.

I'm away from the gear working this week frustratingly.

There is a plug in called 'Voice Controller' and another called 'ES-4 Controller'.

Both referenced in the above video.

I'm not actually an idiot frighteningly. Quite adept at modular and gear in general but this is frustratingly non-intuitive.

Why they can't just produce a video or a manual that points out how to use and set up the ESX-8MD in conjunction with ES-40 specifically I don't know. The manuals are cryptic and holistic with few specifics in the areas I need.
Old 11th September 2017
  #18
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
On the latter i agree.
It took me weeks to get my ES4 working properly.
Too many products and too many features, not enough in depth tutorials on each product IMO. And they are finnicky. If you have one knob slightly out of position or one setting on the wrong numerical value the thing won't work properly.
My studio is broken down and I don't have my ES4 set up. It's also a couple of years before i did set it up from scratch, so I can't remember what i did.
I think you just need the ES40 controller software. You launch it as a virtual instrument in your DAW. It should then send midi by CV and Gate.
I had my ES4 working perfectly over cv and gate when I bought the ESX-8MD, and as such it only took me a minute to install the ESX-8MD and getting it working as a traditional midi controller.
Old 11th September 2017
  #19
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTed View Post
I tried for about 8 hours to get it to work and then another 2 hours searching the web for info. Then I came across the post below on Muff Wiggler and it took me about 5 minutes max to setup. I wasn't using a group channel and had a dodgy SPDIF lead to make things even more confusing.

As always it's easy when you know how, ha, ha!

So for anyone as lost as me. This is how you setup your 21st century Cubase to do the job of 20th century Cubase.
bil_g taught me this:

1. Simply open couple of midi tracks (you can have 16 channels per physical ESX-8GT output so thats 16x8=128 per module)

2. then add a group channel track. Route your group channel tracks' out to SPIDIF stereo out (to add SPIDIF outs to your project go to devices>VST Connections>add bus (stereo) rout your bus to SPIDIF outs of your sound card)

3. insert as many ES controller plugins to that group channel track as you intend to use physical ESX-8GT outs

4. In every ES controller plugin in the midi section set channel to omni (so it can recieve on all 16 channels); set "channelise" to off (so you don't stuff all your input midi channels into one output channel); choose gate output to physical output you want to use.

5. in MIDI /CV 1&2 sections set "channel" and "gate" settings to off

6. make sure that in input section "thru" setting is set to 1/2

7. now simply take any midi track you created, rout its output to the ES controller that you just set up to send midi to one of your synths. Set channel number that coresponds to program/voice/sound you want to use on your synth, and if your synth is multitimbral you can send up to 16 midi tracks on respective channel numbers to your synth.


I followed the above excellent examples before, so thought it'd be plain sailing. Then finally got around to setting it up.

There's definitely something amiss with the SPDIF I feel I need to sort prior to troubleshooting the ES-40/SW software.

I've got an MX-1 as well, and that has SPDIF, so I can do some fiddling there to see if Cubase sees the output from that.

I guess I'll keep at it! Frustrating. I don't want to go back to the old EMU interface.
Old 11th September 2017
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I'd take other SPDIF devices out of the equation (including the ES40) and just plug the MR's SPDIF output straight back into its SPDIF input (i.e. SPDIF loopback).

Send any old audio round that SPDIF loop. As soon you see the audio coming back into your SPDIF input in the MR Editor's meters, you'll at least know the SPDIF output is working for the ES40.
Old 11th September 2017
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
For sending MIDI messages you use the ES-4 Controller. You don't use the Voice Controller for MIDI messages.

The ES-4 Controller can also be used to send 2 x CV/Gates for basic CV/Gate functionality.

The Voice Controller CV/Gate goes beyond the two basic CV/Gates of the ES-4 Controller. So as well as CV/Gate you also get 'velocity > accent', envelopes x 3, gates and triggers, that fire when you send the Voice Controller a note on etc.

I'd leave the Voice Controller alone for now, and just use the ES-4 Controller for MIDI and the two basic CV/Gate pairs. The Voice Controller is far more complicated; I still struggle with it now.
Old 11th September 2017 | Show parent
  #22
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand View Post
I'd take other SPDIF devices out of the equation (including the ES40) and just plug the MR's SPDIF output straight back into its SPDIF input (i.e. SPDIF loopback).

Send any old audio round that SPDIF loop. As soon you see the audio coming back into your SPDIF input in the MR Editor's meters, you'll at least know the SPDIF output is working for the ES40.
I do really appreciate all the input.

I can see audio from the Virus coming in via the MR Editor but not the same in Cubase.

I'll exhaust all avenues!
Old 25th September 2017
  #23
Deleted 80b9b09
Guest
Hey guys

Well i'm back at it, with a little progress but still tearing my hair out.

I've now managed to get a signal to the ESX-8MD but ALL the lights are on apart from Channel 2 which seems to be receiving MIDI okay. When I play the keys, the lights flash.

However (As per enclosed screenshot) the channel lights are all the way up and when I route it to my Erebus, I hear absolutely nothing, and it doesn't seem to be sending.

So it must be some setting I'm screwing up.

All lights except the MIDI 2 are lit up red on the Module.

I've tried everything, so if anyone has a suggestion HELP!

It's also showing a signal going out permanently from the two channels.
Attached Thumbnails
Expert Sleepers ES-40/ESX-8MD CUBASE HELL-screen-shot-2017-09-25-17.48.00.jpg  
Old 25th September 2017
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Zero everything above the MIDI out section. None of that is needed for midi.
Old 25th September 2017
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I should have said, the inputs and input mode sections at the top are fine as they are.
Old 25th September 2017
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
This are the ES-4 Controller's settings for my Pulse. Receiving on channel 5 (not channelised to another midi channel), and clock running running with a 3.6ms negative/early offset - for some reason Os uses positive numbers for negative offsets??

Old 26th September 2017 | Show parent
  #27
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand View Post
This are the ES-4 Controller's settings for my Pulse. Receiving on channel 5 (not channelised to another midi channel), and clock running running with a 3.6ms negative/early offset - for some reason Os uses positive numbers for negative offsets??

Thanks Dan. It's much appreciated.

Still having a nightmare. No matter what I do. However, I think it must be something I'm doing in Cubase, as the meters on the Group channels I've set up are showing full.

I need to join FB to look at the page on there.

I may try and switch out the header I'm using on the physical modules as well. I've read some stuff about that being a potential issue.

Overall, it's so annoying. I've no idea why the lights are all on on every channel on the ESX-8MD. And if I change certain settings in the ES-4 software, channel 2 also lights up.

It's a step further than I was originally, but still very frustrating being so close but not being able to nail it.
Old 26th September 2017
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kicks91 View Post
header 1 and 3 aren't working (or not fully), only header 2 , 4 and 5 are ok. So it is working now but only with the limit of 3 8MDs...
Op. Have you still got the ES-40 on expansion header 1?
Old 27th September 2017 | Show parent
  #29
Deleted 80b9b09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand View Post
Op. Have you still got the ES-40 on expansion header 1?
Hi There

Nope - tried it on two now. Completely different set of lights lighting up now. Very odd indeed.

If I select Gate 2/5 - any MIDI routed to it flashes on Channel 1 on the ESX-8MD.

I am completely confused.
Old 27th September 2017
  #30
Gear Head
 
I also spend weeks to figure it out...
the audio track on which the ES40 VST is must be stereo!
Also there is a bug in Cubase... I was a bit pissed of to learn that from the Expert Sleepers guy (who helped me on facebook), some headers don't work in cubase... for me only headers 2,4 and 5 work. I don't think this bug is mentionned anywhere...
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