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MIDI & Sysex librarian & editors: what is available? (2017) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 30th August 2017
  #1
MIDI & Sysex librarian & editors: what is available? (2017)

both PC and Mac
I came across the Elektron C6, seems to work for other synths as well.
https://www.elektron.se/support/?con...rive#downloads

for Mac:
https://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/
bunch of stuff
Macintosh Music Software: MIDI Utilities (Hitsquad)

For PC:
MIDIOX
Send SX | Bome Software

what else? linux also welcome, next laptop I'll install that.
thanks!
Old 1st September 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
 
tux99's Avatar
 

Do you mean librarians and editors for single synths or only those that cover loads of synths like Midi Quest?
The thread subject seems very open-ended, it's not clear (at least to me) what you are actually looking for.

Those you listed are actually not librarians or editors, but rather simple sysex utilities, so something different altogether.

Anyway for some single synth editors see my signature (even for Linux).
Old 1st September 2017
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

C'mon Reptil, you're a moderator and you haven't seen all the threads about Midi Quest, Sound Diver, Ctrlr, and the need for a modern sysex editor/librarian? How about using the search tool on your own site?
Old 1st September 2017
  #4
Gear Addict
I find this question very important.

There is definitely a need for a modern sysex librarian.
I say only librarian, because I only need this. If I want to edit I do it on the HW.

I want a simple tool that read out the memory or banks of a synth via sysex and only extract the single patches so you can store and manage them by their names.

It's ridiculous coming from the IT I think I would can create such a simple tool in a week or so, but my free time is to precious for me and I don't want to do IT at home after work.

But if my suffer pressure continues to grow someday I probably start to program it.

Sure it would be difficult to support all synths, but for me the way would be to define a generic rule engine by which you can define how to extract the patches and patch names out of the sysex stream and how to reconstruct them as a sysex stream sending to the synth.

br
Old 1st September 2017
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog View Post
I want a simple tool that read out the memory or banks of a synth via sysex and only extract the single patches so you can store and manage them by their names.

It's ridiculous coming from the IT I think I would can create such a simple tool in a week or so, but my free time is to precious for me and I don't want to do IT at home after work.
It's a lot harder than it sounds. Every single synth has a different sysex format for doing bulk dumps -- and probably 80% of the work in writing a patch editor lies in writing and debugging the code to parse and emit sysex dumps. The documentation is often buggy, incomplete, or entirely missing. Some synths don't have bulk dumps, but only single patch dumps or maybe bank dumps. Other synths do dumps via NRPN.

Quote:
for me the way would be to define a generic rule engine by which you can define how to extract the patches and patch names out of the sysex stream and how to reconstruct them as a sysex stream sending to the synth.
I'll give you an idea of crazy things you have to support. The Oberheim Matrix 1000 encodes all of its sysex by breaking the bytes into nybbles and then encoding each nybble in a separate byte. The Yamaha TX81Z sends patches not as one sysex dump but as *two* separate sysex dumps so as to be backwards compatible with earlier obscure 4-op FM synths. The PreenFM2 has a sysex format that is entirely undocumented. It consists of packing an array of *IEEE 754 doubles* into the sysex stream. For both the TX81Z and the PreenFM2, btw, there's no sysex command to write a patch to patch memory.

There's no way you can come up with a set of parsing rules for this.
Old 2nd September 2017
  #6
Gear Addict
Hi,

thank you, these are good points to my naive thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feijai View Post
It's a lot harder than it sounds.
I should have known it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Every single synth has a different sysex format for doing bulk dumps -- and probably 80% of the work in writing a patch editor lies in writing and debugging the code to parse and emit sysex dumps.
As I wrote I wouldn't write an editor. I know this would be a huge work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feijai View Post
The documentation is often buggy, incomplete, or entirely missing. Some synths don't have bulk dumps, but only single patch dumps or maybe bank dumps. Other synths do dumps via NRPN.
I have the idea (which isn't new I know) to only make a frame where I (people) can put in sysex requests as is (hex string) and manage them by a generic list of synths.


Quote:
Originally Posted by feijai View Post
I'll give you an idea of crazy things you have to support. The Oberheim Matrix 1000 encodes all of its sysex by breaking the bytes into nybbles and then encoding each nybble in a separate byte. The Yamaha TX81Z sends patches not as one sysex dump but as *two* separate sysex dumps so as to be backwards compatible with earlier obscure 4-op FM synths. The PreenFM2 has a sysex format that is entirely undocumented. It consists of packing an array of *IEEE 754 doubles* into the sysex stream. For both the TX81Z and the PreenFM2, btw, there's no sysex command to write a patch to patch memory.
Oh, I underestimated the fantasy of synth developers.

My idea is to keep it very simple:

- Record sysex stream from synth as is.
- Take begin, end or length of data of each patch in stream from documentation or analyze it.
- Store each part separately.
- Extract only patch name from each patch data by definition of begin, end or length of name part.
- Define how the name data must be interpreted (eg by midi bytes).
- Present all this in a list where you can manage (move, delete, ...) the recognized patches.

Reconstruct sysex stream by recognized patches and send to synth.

Or make only a program change list from the recognized patch names,
which was also often missing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feijai View Post
There's no way you can come up with a set of parsing rules for this.
Perhaps only for newer, more modern synths.

br
Old 2nd September 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 
re5etuk's Avatar
not linux etc , but ios is gathering a few.
patchbase springs to mind , and midi designer pro (although its more of a control surface).

patch base supports :-
Casio CZ-1, CZ-101, CZ-1000, CZ-3000, CZ-5000
* Clavia Nord Lead 2, Nord Lead 2X
* DSI Mopho and Mopho Keyboard
* Ensoniq ESQ-1, SQ-80, and ESQ-M
* Korg Volca FM, Minilogue, microKORG, MS2000, MS2000R, MS2000B, MS2000BR
* Oberheim Matrix-1000, Matrix-6, Matrix-6r
* Roland JD-Xi, JV-1080, JV-2080, JV-1010, XP-80, XP-60, XP-50, XP-30, D-50, D-550
* Waldorf Blofeld
* Yamaha DX7, DX7II, TX7, TX802, TX816, TX81Z, DX100, FB-01
Old 2nd September 2017
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimbom View Post
not linux etc , but ios is gathering a few.
patchbase springs to mind , and midi designer pro (although its more of a control surface).

patch base supports :-
Casio CZ-1, CZ-101, CZ-1000, CZ-3000, CZ-5000
* Clavia Nord Lead 2, Nord Lead 2X
* DSI Mopho and Mopho Keyboard
* Ensoniq ESQ-1, SQ-80, and ESQ-M
* Korg Volca FM, Minilogue, microKORG, MS2000, MS2000R, MS2000B, MS2000BR
* Oberheim Matrix-1000, Matrix-6, Matrix-6r
* Roland JD-Xi, JV-1080, JV-2080, JV-1010, XP-80, XP-60, XP-50, XP-30, D-50, D-550
* Waldorf Blofeld
* Yamaha DX7, DX7II, TX7, TX802, TX816, TX81Z, DX100, FB-01
Patch base sadly supports only partly some of those models. For example the TX802 editor is in reality a DX7 editor. None of the updated features or the performance mode of the 802 are supported. Unfortunately one must figure this out for himself as the exact info is nowhere to be found on the developer's website.
Old 2nd September 2017
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer View Post
Patch base sadly supports only partly some of those models. For example the TX802 editor is in reality a DX7 editor. None of the updated features or the performance mode of the 802 are supported. Unfortunately one must figure this out for himself as the exact info is nowhere to be found on the developer's website.
Also, does Patch Base support anything other than Single mode? For example, it looks like the Blofeld patch editor doesn't support multimode, and the Oberheim Matrix 6/6r editor looks like it doesn't support split mode. Perhaps this is wise though, spending his time developing for more machines rather than supporting less-used features.
Old 2nd September 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog View Post
Perhaps only for newer, more modern synths.
Think so? I think it's gotten *worse*. It's my understanding that the volcas have seriously broken sysex in one way or another. The MatrixBrute sysex is presently a *secret*. The Blofeld multipatch and wave patch sysex is still undocumented and must be reverse engineered. And the PreenFM2 I described earlier is a very recent machine, yet its sysex is nuts.

The old machines all had crazy sysex differences but at least they were complete and well documented, or at this point have been reverse-engineered. Now it seems current manufacturers just don't care.
Old 5th November 2017
  #11
I am developing LASER Mammoth, a SysEx Librarian which works in the Google Chrome browser.
It already supports quite a bit of synths. You can reorder, rename and delete programs and on most synths you can prelisten the programs by transferring them in the edit buffer, so you don't have to overwrite anything. It's easy to share presets but there isn't much content yet.
If you want to try: https://f0f7.net/
Old 10th January 2018
  #12
Here for the gear
This Laser Mammoth looks good!
Old 13th February 2018
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
noisyneil's Avatar
 

Hey hey.

Just got a Behringer Model D and it requires SysEx to edit things like pitchbend range. I'm a bit new to this SysEx thing outside of dedicated editors (Akai etc) so I was wondering what you would recommend as a basic editor...? Don't need a librarian as you can't store patches.

Cheers!
Old 13th February 2018
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
Hey hey.

Just got a Behringer Model D and it requires SysEx to edit things like pitchbend range. I'm a bit new to this SysEx thing outside of dedicated editors (Akai etc) so I was wondering what you would recommend as a basic editor...?
Many people use midi-ox on Windows, but it's a bit tedious to manually edit presets with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
Don't need a librarian as you can't store patches.

Cheers!
That could be the reason for a librarian, you could store patch per patch on the computer Unfortunately I don't have access to Behringer D to add the profile to LASER Mammoth ...
Old 13th February 2018
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
Just got a Behringer Model D and it requires SysEx to edit things like pitchbend range. I'm a bit new to this SysEx thing outside of dedicated editors (Akai etc) so I was wondering what you would recommend as a basic editor...? Don't need a librarian as you can't store patches.
There's this:
GitHub - masc4ii/ConfiguratorModelD: A easy configurator for Behringer Model D
Old 14th February 2018
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
noisyneil's Avatar
 

Quote:
You legend!! That's perfect! Thanks!
Old 25th February 2018
  #17
Quote:
Wow this is awesome. Behringer should have designed a utility like this.
Topic:
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