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Behringer Model D
Old 14th July 2017
  #31
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swiller's Avatar
This is only explained by the behringer rap... (feel free to add verses).

poor old uli what can you say,
copying moogs for a big payday.
Hes made 10,000 ready to go,
but he just suffered one big major blow

no bragging or boasts, its the se02
just landed with demos for us to view
it sounds the dogs bollox on my kh120s
the analog bliss, is like tripping on benzys

The behringer warehouse is packed full of d’s
but now the demand has begun to freeze
who buys a d with funds from their payday..
or maybe theres gas for analog ashtrays?

Old 14th July 2017
  #32
you have too much time on your hands


roses are red, violence are blue
stfu!

Old 14th July 2017
  #33
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
well good, better, whatever, its all personal taste...though Id agree that anyone thinking this will be an exact 1:1 will likely be disappointed.

I just dont want it to sound bad...the monologues an excellent little mono, with plenty of features, built to a price...if the behringer is too Ill be happy, just so it doesnt stop them from continuing on this journey

I know what you are saying entry level, or beginners, but I used the volcas out of interest...I could make an entire album out of them and Im experienced enough that most of my stuff sounds average to above average for my skill set...it wasnt the volcas, or any of my synths sounds, that hold me back...$300 are only entry level because theyre easier to afford, not because of what they can produce. I think we forget this in here and argue 20 pages over differences that really dont matter that much. Not a rant or directed at you, just the other part of me came back with the coffee
No offense taken. I think we are on the same page. I would love for Behringer to come up with a "high-end" synth. Given their resources, It could still be priced fairly reasonable. To me the DM12 is not that synth.
Old 14th July 2017
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
No offense taken. I think we are on the same page. I would love for Behringer to come up with a "high-end" synth. Given their resources, It could still be priced fairly reasonable. To me the DM12 is not that synth.
its very good for $1k, now for $1500 Im thinking more Oby or 2600
Old 14th July 2017
  #35
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiller View Post
This is only explained by the behringer rap... (feel free to add verses).

poor old uli what can you say,
copying moogs for a big payday.
Hes made 10,000 ready to go,
but he just suffered one big major blow

no bragging or boasts, its the se02
just landed with demos for us to view
it sounds the dogs bollox on my kh120s
the analog bliss, is like tripping on benzys

The behringer warehouse is packed full of d’s
but now the demand has begun to freeze
who buys a d with funds from their payday..
or maybe theres gas for analog ashtrays?

LOL!

If the folks at Behringer were as creative as you, they might put out a halfway decent synth.
Old 14th July 2017
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
well good, better, whatever, its all personal taste...though Id agree that anyone thinking this will be an exact 1:1 will likely be disappointed.
What was the point of the whole "$200 in parts" shtick and copying the trade dress of a Moog Model D, then? If someone says and implies they're going to deliver a Model D, that's what customers should expect. This is the glove Uli threw down, no one forced it upon him. Otherwise, they should have just done a good, affordable 3 OSC analog synth with its own identity. No need to move the goalpost now.
Old 14th July 2017
  #37
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
you have too much time on your hands


roses are red, violence are blue
stfu!

Violence has a colour bro?
Old 14th July 2017
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
What was the point of the whole "$200 in parts" shtick and copying the trade dress of a Moog Model D, then? If someone says and implies they're going to deliver a Model D, that's what customers should expect. This is the glove Uli threw down, no one forced it upon him. Otherwise, they should have just done a good, affordable 3 OSC analog synth with its own identity. No need to move the goalpost now.
ive no idea, calm down
Old 14th July 2017
  #39
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
its very good for $1k, now for $1500 Im thinking more Oby or 2600
Unfortunately I am cursed with owning actual analogue synths so my ears have been acclimated to those tones. It doesn't make me a better musician, or someone with better ears, not at all. It's just I have the particular tones engrained in me. It's like drinking micro-brew beers for years and then drinking a Schlitz. The taste buds know the difference.

I was extremely disappointed with the DM12. Way over hyped. Roland, Korg, and others still impress me with their new offerings. Hard to beat them for that digital sound we all know and love.

I think hardware synths are a hard sell to the entry level market because of the influx of soft synths over the years. More than just a few people own pirated copies so for them to come up off of some cash, the synths need to offer more than the soft synths. I just don't think Behringer is their yet.

Then you have a "pro" market that wants better than just decent or good. This is why companies like Moog and DSI are still thriving. Roland, Korg, Nord, etc. also have some good offerings in the "high-end".

I can't say I blame Behringer for catering to the lower end of the market. Lots of money to be made there. It's difficult for kids to save up for the high-end stuff. Parents want to keep their kids happy without breaking the bank. Young adults are just breaking into the job market so it's hard for them to come up with cash as well.
Old 14th July 2017
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Violence has a colour bro?
blue obviously
Old 14th July 2017
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
Unfortunately I am cursed with owning actual analogue synths so my ears have been acclimated to those tones. It doesn't make me a better musician, or someone with better ears, not at all. It's just I have the particular tones engrained in me. It's like drinking micro-brew beers for years and then drinking a Schlitz. The taste buds know the difference.

I was extremely disappointed with the DM12. Way over hyped. Roland, Korg, and others still impress me with their new offerings. Hard to beat them for that digital sound we all know and love.

I think hardware synths are a hard sell to the entry level market because of the influx of soft synths over the years. More than just a few people own pirated copies so for them to come up off of some cash, the synths need to offer more than the soft synths. I just don't think Behringer is their yet.

Then you have a "pro" market that wants better than just decent or good. This is why companies like Moog and DSI are still thriving. Roland, Korg, Nord, etc. also have some good offerings in the "high-end".

I can't say I blame Behringer for catering to the lower end of the market. Lots of money to be made there. It's difficult for kids to save up for the high-end stuff. Parents want to keep their kids happy without breaking the bank. Young adults are just breaking into the job market so it's hard for them to come up with cash as well.
well Ive got DSI, Moog, Korg, Access, but mostly Rolands and I like the DM...but synths arent for everyone, nor should they be...and Im far from shoving my tastes on someone else. Each to their own, the more the merrier.
Old 14th July 2017
  #42
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
What was the point of the whole "$200 in parts" shtick and copying the trade dress of a Moog Model D, then? If someone says and implies they're going to deliver a Model D, that's what customers should expect. This is the glove Uli threw down, no one forced it upon him. Otherwise, they should have just done a good, affordable 3 OSC analog synth with its own identity. No need to move the goalpost now.
It's called marketing. Throw the bait out there and someone is likely to take it. The guy knows he can't deliver a Model D clone. Due to the lack of parts, Moog can't even continue building their reissues!

This is an old story with a new name. Peavey, Mackie, Bose, and now would you please welcome... Behringer.
Old 14th July 2017
  #43
Though Alrod, this sounds decent

Old 14th July 2017
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
What was the point of the whole "$200 in parts" shtick and copying the trade dress of a Moog Model D, then? If someone says and implies they're going to deliver a Model D, that's what customers should expect. This is the glove Uli threw down, no one forced it upon him. Otherwise, they should have just done a good, affordable 3 OSC analog synth with its own identity. No need to move the goalpost now.
Sounds like the SE02.
Old 14th July 2017
  #45
Gear Addict
 
3Crystals's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Though Alrod, this sounds decent

Sounds very close.Guess Alrod doesn't think the JP8 is all that.DM12 is a very nice analog synth especially in 6 voice mode detuned a little.Very old school analog sounding just like in the video.
Old 14th July 2017
  #46
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
well Ive got DSI, Moog, Korg, Access, but mostly Rolands and I like the DM...but synths arent for everyone, nor should they be...and Im far from shoving my tastes on someone else. Each to their own, the more the merrier.
Absolutely! At the end of the day it's about the music. If it's an awesome song that just so happens to draw people to it, the particular instruments the artists used to create it are like gold. Whether it was a Critter & Guitari pocket piano or a Vintage Model D.
Old 15th July 2017
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
It's called marketing. Throw the bait out there and someone is likely to take it. The guy knows he can't deliver a Model D clone. Due to the lack of parts, Moog can't even continue building their reissues!

This is an old story with a new name. Peavey, Mackie, Bose, and now would you please welcome... Behringer.
What? They ran out of parts for the reissues and discontinued them? Am I reading this right?

I really hope this is not true!!!
Old 15th July 2017
  #48
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
The image conscious muso aint buying a minologue either...let alone any Behringer
Not so sure about that ... I think there's a good contingent of musicians appreciating what VCO Minilogue brings to the game that cuts across many different groups ... For what it is (great sound with direct controls), I think ML occupies a unique place no matter what the budget ... I've come to love ML more each time I use it ... Pretty much the only thing I miss from would be a few more voices ... But four is *absolutely* workable ... If not, you're not a very clever musician or just spoiled ......
Old 15th July 2017
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
Not so sure about that ... I think there's a good contingent of musicians appreciating what VCO Minilogue brings to the game that cuts across many different groups ... For what it is, I think ML occupies a unique place no matter what the budget ... I've come to love ML more each time I use it ... Pretty much the only thing I miss from it is a few more voices ... But four is absolutely workable ... If not, you're not a very clever musician ...
I meant monologue, sorry


And Im not thinking the "image conscious muso" is a compliment...I love the monolgue...but image is about as important as, well, nothing to me
Old 15th July 2017
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvmoore View Post
What? They ran out of parts for the reissues and discontinued them? Am I reading this right?

I really hope this is not true!!!
You can phrase it as "We destroyed our projected sales figures!!!"
Old 15th July 2017
  #51
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
I meant monologue, sorry


And Im not thinking the "image conscious muso" is a compliment...I love the monolgue...but image is about as important as, well, nothing to me
I agree ... I'm not "image conscious" either ... But there's more than a bit of truth about the perception of "B" products being "uncool" ...

That said, even though I absolutely don't need one, Monologue is kind of on my impulse buy "want" list ...
Old 15th July 2017
  #52
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Crystals View Post
Sounds very close.Guess Alrod doesn't think the JP8 is all that.DM12 is a very nice analog synth especially in 6 voice mode detuned a little.Very old school analog sounding just like in the video.
It's one typical polysynth sound from JP8, and one I'd *never* use ... I will agree its plenty close but when I owned JP8 the magic and charm of that synth was straying from the beaten path and coming up with atypical, non-80s JP8 sounds ... Personally, I don't think DM12 needs to even play that game to be a "good" synth ...

The big problem I have with DM12 is its limited interface (not a fan of shared controls for basic functions) and the horribly whistle-ly filter in certain settings ... It's nearly the first thing I heard when demo-ing DM12 (and it's present in *many* demos) and it completely put me off ... There might be ways to around it but to me it's like a big pile of dog doo that you can't scoop up and remove and forever dancing around ...

That said, I'm still intrigued by the sweet-looking DM12 desktop (and that there have been some good-sounding demos) but at this point I think my money would go toward the gorgeous looking-*and*-sounding Dreadbox Abyss, which in many ways is very similar (analog desktop synth with built-in effects that can be modulated) but with a much greater emphasis on sound and direct control over features ...

Last edited by Diametro; 15th July 2017 at 01:13 AM..
Old 15th July 2017
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
It's one typical polysynth sound from JP8, and one I'd *never* use ... I will agree its plenty close but when I owned JP8 the magic and charm of that synth was straying from the beaten path and coming up with atypical, non-80s JP8 sounds ... Personally, I don't think DM12 needs to even play that game to be a "good" synth ...

The big problem I have with DM12 is its limited interface (not a fan of shared controls for basic functions) and the horribly whistle-ly filter in certain settings ... It's nearly the first thing I heard when demo-ing DM12 (and it's present in *many* demos) and it completely put me off ... There might be ways to around it but to me it's like a big pile of dog doo that you can't scoop up and remove and forever dancing around ...

That said, I'm still intrigued by the sweet-looking DM12 desktop (and that there have been some good-sounding demos) but at this point I think my money would go toward the gorgeous looking-*and*-sounding Dreadbox Abyss, which in many ways is very similar (analog desktop synth with built-in effects that can be modulated) but with a much greater emphasis on sound and direct control over features ...
I wouldnt force the DM on anyone, I do s****** a bit at the sterile bland brigade because Im thinking you really havent played it...but interface is definitely a personal choice and not much can be done about the. i dont have a problem with the filter myself..again what shade of blue do you like...

The dreadbox looks like a great purchase...I foresee a time in the future where I will have a desktop area again. Just now my desktop is 30"x30" and is crammed
Old 15th July 2017
  #54
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
I wouldnt force the DM on anyone, I do s****** a bit at the sterile bland brigade because Im thinking you really havent played it...but interface is definitely a personal choice and not much can be done about the. i dont have a problem with the filter myself..again what shade of blue do you like...
I think the DM12 has a lot going for it with a lot of interesting options ...

I would never get the keyboard version because of the four octaves — really strange choice for a performance analog synth with 12 voices (or six voices depending) but not enough keys (obviously to hit a price point and to achieve a certain packaging).

But the desktop seems like a less contradictory synth in a more compact format that's more complementary with my setup ...

If B had released them at about the same time, I'm pretty sure I'd have purchased one ... Instead Eventide got my money (which honestly I feel a little better about; supporting a company that pioneered its work instead of plundering it from elsewhere ... )

Last edited by Diametro; 15th July 2017 at 02:03 AM..
Old 15th July 2017
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
Nothing personal, but some people still want better than good. At these low prices, Behringer is cutting a lot of corners. Anyone expecting a Moog D clone out of this is going to be disappointed. This synth is targeted for entry level players. Sure you might get some pros that us it, but at the end of the day it's going to be a cheap synth.

I am a firm believer that more expensive does not always equal better. So when I say "cheap", I mean more in terms of quality, components, and sound.
You know Behringer's slogan was "twice the features for half the price" ? They were the amongst the first audio companies to move all production to China, initially with contract manufacturing and then with their own factory. They can crank stuff out at a huge competitive advantage.

The design on Model D is already done. All they have had to do is tweak it for modern production and add a bit of MIDI. There no great overheads to cover. I think Uli mentioned that the Deepmind cost about a million dollars to do.

Behringer have already done this with the old Boss pedals. It's relatively easy for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
The date was always aimed at the end of year as per the big guy himself.

I expect their urge to make this better has only become stronger, the silence speaks volumes IMO.
I doubt it will change. Uli probably just got tired of all the crap on here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
What was the point of the whole "$200 in parts" shtick and copying the trade dress of a Moog Model D, then? If someone says and implies they're going to deliver a Model D, that's what customers should expect. This is the glove Uli threw down, no one forced it upon him. Otherwise, they should have just done a good, affordable 3 OSC analog synth with its own identity. No need to move the goalpost now.
I have no problem with the "$200 in parts" claim or making it look like a Moog. Behringer's game is volume production, and if they can sell another 30% by making a Model D rather than something with less general appeal then they will. If you were going to sell cheap guitars in volume would you base it on anything other than a Strat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
It's called marketing. Throw the bait out there and someone is likely to take it. The guy knows he can't deliver a Model D clone. Due to the lack of parts, Moog can't even continue building their reissues!

This is an old story with a new name. Peavey, Mackie, Bose, and now would you please welcome... Behringer.
Moog are making their D's with NOS or special run transistors and they have now run out. Behringer are making their D with modern parts. Two very different companies operating in opposite ends of the market.
Old 15th July 2017
  #56
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcgood View Post
I think he means the SE-02 popped up to steal Uli's thunder, which is far more feature rich and has a far superior sound to anything Uli demonstrated, for not much more money. This imo opinion caused him to drop the price.
What price would that be the $299 Sweetwater Price? That's a street price not a MSRP. The Deepmind 12 has a MSRP of $1499 street of $999

DSI Pro2 MSRP $2199 street $1999

Nord Stage 3 MSRP $5399 street $4499

Roland Integra $2399 MSRP street $1499

Korg Minilogue MSRP of $739 street of $499

Pretty much every manufacturer does this on pretty much everything so people think they are getting a good deal
Old 15th July 2017
  #57
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
The date was always aimed at the end of year as per the big guy himself.

I expect their urge to make this better has only become stronger, the silence speaks volumes IMO.
Not only that but the factory is currently building the Deepmind 6, and Deepmind 12 desktops

Once that is in production and have inventory, they can start building the D

These will be in all the shops in time for the Holidays, Santa will have a ton on his sleigh
Old 15th July 2017
  #58
The initial sweetwater date was september...but that was maybe why it was pulled as it was way too early.
Old 15th July 2017
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discopotato View Post
You can phrase it as "We destroyed our projected sales figures!!!"
Ah, yeah that makes since. I can understand it if they can't make enough of them to keep up with the demand (ran out of parts!!!).
Old 15th July 2017
  #60
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sentokan's Avatar
 

I am not a Behringer fan (apart from BCR) but to me the Model D sounds pretty good even compared to SE Boutique. At least from the demos..
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