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Moog Sub Phatty or Sub 37
Old 22nd May 2017
  #1
Moog Sub Phatty or Sub 37

In the context of not being loaded, owning a System 8 and wanting, not needing a Moog. Cheers............

I currently own a System 8, which is a keeper for me.
The knob per function thing is it's best feature.

I've never owned a Moog. So I'm thinking of getting one to satisfy my lust and put a tick on my bucket list.

I've got more than enough gear and the System 8 covers everything I need.

I'm thinking the Sub Phatty is enough. I've played it and it's a beautiful thing but will I have a nagging doubt that I should have bought the 37? Or considering that I have a System 8 and a Blofeld (another keeper) would the Phatty satisfy the Moog itch.

Thanks.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #2
SRT
Lives for gear
I have a Sub Phatty and I am very pleased with it, despite the differences between it and the Sub37. However, if there was an inexpensive upgrade path I would definitely upgrade to the Subsequent37 to take advantage of duophony, knob/button per parameter and extra CV/modulation options.

One thing to keep in mind about the Sub Phatty...you will need to learn the under the hood hotkeys or use the VST editor to take full advantage of the synth engine.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #3
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base615's Avatar
Sub 37 - It has a knob for (practically) everything, sounds awesome and looks superb. To be fair though, they're both extremely good synths.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #4
Gear Nut
I've had both and the 37 is a must if you can afford it.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #5
I thought you already had this conversation over in the System 8 thread last week, and decided you were going to get the Phatty? I think I said there, that if features like duophonic, sequencer, arpeggiator and onboard patch management don't matter, go with the Phatty. If they do matter, go with the Sub 37.

Not to throw another wrench into your decision, if you just want a Moog or the Moog sound, you could always consider the Minitaur (I have both the Sub 37 and the Minitaur). No keyboard or sequencer, but a great bass synth that you could use with the System 8. You could use the System 8 in Performance mode, and run its sequencer to the Minitaur. I think it's even possible to run the System-8 in "single" Performance mode, so that you could (for example) run the "Lower Part" sequence out to another synth, but still play the "Upper Part" with the full 8 voices. I've been meaning to give that a try.

To be honest, though, I don't think there's much in the Minitaur that you couldn't already replicate on the System-8 or one of its plug-outs (especially the System-1 plug-outs).
Old 22nd May 2017
  #6
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
I thought you already had this conversation over in the System 8 thread last week, and decided you were going to get the Phatty? I think I said there, that if features like duophonic, sequencer, arpeggiator and onboard patch management don't matter, go with the Phatty. If they do matter, go with the Sub 37.
I think besides those points, one of the biggest advantages to the Sub37 is the knob per function. It really does/can make a big difference in your enjoyment of a synth and your ability to get to the sounds you actually want.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
I think besides those points, one of the biggest advantages to the Sub37 is the knob per function. It really does/can make a big difference in your enjoyment of a synth and your ability to get to the sounds you actually want.
I never looked all that closely at the Phatty, but I thought that most of the functions were available from the front panel. Just did a quick Google search and I see that really is not the case. Lots of functions "hidden", requiring either shift combos or the software (much like the Minitaur, really). Arcane hidden functions that are impossible to memorize drive me crazy more than menu-diving, so that really is a substantial difference when compared to the 37.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
I thought you already had this conversation over in the System 8 thread last week, and decided you were going to get the Phatty?.
I know. I'm playing silly games with own mind. I think I just wanted to be told what I already know. I want the Sub 37.

I've not played one but I remember walking past the Phatty and playing the keys and turning the knobs and it wasn't even turned on. When it was I realised what the fuss was about. What a beauty and the Sub 37 can deliver so much more.

The System 8 opened my eyes to a different way of enjoying my playing. It gives me Pads, bass and great leads which are instantly tweakable. I got bored with the Kronos trying to sound like a 'real' instrument, even though it is brilliant.

The Sub 37 and System 8 is as close to total synthesis possibilities that I could hope for and afford.


Thanks for the input.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #9
Deleted User
Guest
Definitely, the Sub 37.

If you just want Moog bass and filter, get the Minitaur.

I own two of each. They really sound amazing.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #10
Gear Addict
 

I have the sub37 and honestly just get one, you will get into its sequencer and modulation options and just scream out FUKIN A...

its an awesome synthesizer
Old 22nd May 2017
  #11
Absolutly no brainer. Sub 37

Same Synth...more options, much more hands on, better looking, great software editor etc.

Honestly, I cant understand at all who still buys a Sub Phatty these days. Just doesnt makes sence. I would wait for the Sub 37 CV version...I guess that has to be the most complete Moog up to date.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #12
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

I got my Sub37 recently and am glad I got it! The arp is good amd mods great.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #13
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choond's Avatar
In Australia you could buy both a MFB Dominion and Moog Sub phatty for the cost of the new Sub37 CV edition.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #14
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by choond View Post
In Australia you could buy both a MFB Dominion and Moog Sub phatty for the cost of the new Sub37 CV edition.
Sounds great! I'd go for that instead! The Sub Phatty is a handsome little synth--and the Dominion 1 rocks.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by choond View Post
In Australia you could buy both a MFB Dominion and Moog Sub phatty for the cost of the new Sub37 CV edition.
You just had to didn't you.
Old 23rd May 2017
  #16
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rids's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsHead View Post
In the context of not being loaded, owning a System 8 and wanting, not needing a Moog. Cheers............

I currently own a System 8, which is a keeper for me.
The knob per function thing is it's best feature.
You said it right there, knob per function. I agree, it's a great thing to have.

In sound, either the SP or 37 will compliment your setup. Same sound. But in use!... The Sub 37 is light years ahead of the SP. I played the SP and the sound is there. But once you play a 37, you see how limited the interface is on the SP and how it impedes the workflow. For one, the 37's Envelope section is so much fun, which is completely hidden on the SP. That's crime #1 imo. Quickly changing the filter slopes is very handy. I'm not sure how you assign the LFO destination on the SP, but the 37 makes it quick and easy. Another big deal to me. And the addition of the sequencer is great. It even has ratcheting! Combining the sequencer with the LFOs is a snap and can create some nice complex sounds.

37 wins by a landslide. This is my personal taste of course, because I like making my own sounds.
Old 23rd May 2017
  #17
Gear Guru
I think the Dominion 1 would play nicer with the System 8 better than any Moog.
Old 23rd May 2017
  #18
Lives for gear
I have a System-8 and find the Minitaur to be a great match for it. I tried the Sub Phatty and just didn't get on with what seemed to be a constantly overdriven sound. I even prefer my Slim Phatty to the Sub Series.
Old 23rd May 2017
  #19
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choond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadia View Post
I tried the Sub Phatty and just didn't get on with what seemed to be a constantly overdriven sound. I even prefer my Slim Phatty to the Sub Series.
Just in case you hadn't seen it already, there is a pretty convincing Youtube video circulating that demonstrates that the sound of the sub phatty and little phatty is identical if you don't use multidrive.

The `driven' sound can be also due to the Sub's filter being 1 or 2 pole mode. It would be easy to overlook this, as there's no switch that shows you the mode you're in.
Old 23rd May 2017
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choond View Post
Just in case you hadn't seen it already, there is a pretty convincing Youtube video circulating that demonstrates that the sound of the sub phatty and little phatty is identical if you don't use multidrive.

The `driven' sound can be also due to the Sub's filter being 1 or 2 pole mode. It would be easy to overlook this, as there's no switch that shows you the mode you're in.
I had both my SP and SP side by side and even with multi-drive down and OSC levels lower on the Sub I couldn't get rid of that annoying overdriven sound. But you may be right about the filter poles as I didn't try and change that. I assumed it would have been set at 4-pole as the default when you hit "manual". I was usually hitting manual from the first factory preset so maybe you know which filter mode I was in?
Old 23rd May 2017
  #21
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choond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadia View Post
I had both my SP and SP side by side and even with multi-drive down and OSC levels lower on the Sub I couldn't get rid of that annoying overdriven sound. But you may be right about the filter poles as I didn't try and change that. I assumed it would have been set at 4-pole as the default when you hit "manual". I was usually hitting manual from the first factory preset so maybe you know which filter mode I was in?
I think that was a good assumption, so I wonder if perhaps the filter slope was changed accidently, or by someone who demo'd it before you or returned it ? Its a bit of an ordeal to change the filter slope, you need to press shift , then Bank 2 and Patch 1, then select one of the first four keys on the keyboard.

The manual says this:

``With fewer poles, the filter has a buzzy,
raw sound. With more poles, the sound is smooth
and rounder. ''

Anyway, its just a thought
Old 24th May 2017
  #22
Gear Addict
 
Darxxxell's Avatar
I love synths and I couldn't be happier with the Sub 37. It's a monster, has the Midas touch in any mix, and can do just about anything. The knob per function makes it very personal; like an extension of your body.
Old 24th May 2017
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by choond View Post
Just in case you hadn't seen it already, there is a pretty convincing Youtube video circulating that demonstrates that the sound of the sub phatty and little phatty is identical if you don't use multidrive.

The `driven' sound can be also due to the Sub's filter being 1 or 2 pole mode. It would be easy to overlook this, as there's no switch that shows you the mode you're in.

Sorry but that's absolute bollocks. I'm calling it like it is. I've owned Sub 37 and still have a Slim phatty. The basic tone is different. The filter is different. And yea the multidrive vs overload function sounds different. For some things one is better than the other, neither is overall 'best' when talking about an instrument (of course the 37 has far more power/features.. at a price!).

For me, tone comes first. What made me sell my sub 37? I found it excelled at aggressive tones, it's filter with MD + some LFO mod gets a bit crazier and in your face than the little/slim phat seems able to. Duo mode can be nice but gets old (for me), I made a FULL bank of 256 patches, to prove this you can check my soundclound (www.soundcloud.com/pro5) there's many of my sub 37 sounds there.. all custom.

As a synth I still think the sub 37 sounds more 'analog' and more involving, organic and rich than ANY DSI on earth (inc the prophet 6 - not including the old synths from the 70s/80s). I much prefer the moog filter to anything I've touched from DSI, this is to emphasise I think it's a great synth.

Now.. "moog sound"? For that I don't think the Sub 37 is quite as good as the slim/little phatty, and it's nothing to do with the MD/OL feature (though that does also come into play). The fact is the VCOs themselves just sound nicer in the slim/little phatty, an actual fact born out by many users who've had both or tried both (or subphatty vs little). That is not to say sub sounds bad, it just has this harsher, slightly nasal quality about it, sounds a lot more constrained, nowhere NEAR as smooth (so less like a minimoog than than the little/slim) and less organic. As said the sub is more powerful, you can aproximate some japanese synth sounds quite well on it (Roland) with the general tone (thinner) than the slim/little, the slim also has selectable filter poles of course and I find the change between those modes is a bit more effective than doing similar on the subs.

The filter opens up more on one than the other, but they are pretty similar, certainly both are very 'moog' and won't disappoint (not like prophet 08 trash filter). Sub/37 is a bit harder hitting (with sub osc invoked esp) and can be a bit towards the aggressive side, more easily, which can work well for many modern genres, you can make it smooth out a bit by keeping the mix levels low, even so, it still doesn't sound like the little/slim when you do more than just compare basic sounds (and this is based on real experience not watching someone elses crappy YT video comparing them within their own criteria in ways either synth - and prob many others - could sound similar in).

When you factor in the guy only wants 'some moog sound' I can't blindly say get sub 37 (over sub phatty? yeah ok if that's the sound you like) but he should check out little/slim - slims can be had for a ridiculous bargain on ebay and contaray to much of the bs i read around here daily, the interface isn't that much less hands on than my sub 37 was (taking into account the 37 still had some menus). I think people get carried away with idealism, sure it's NICE to have everything mapped to a control but so long as you have "good control" you'll find the majority of actual musicians and producers care more about the tone, and the ability to shape a sound fast enough for a song and there the slim phatty is more than fine. You can use pot mapping to use the 4 pots to control any function (so you CAn have cut off and res on two knobs at once if that's your thing), that said, flipping around using the buttons to set the knobs function has rarely held me back, esp as the slim is a little more compact so less moving and the buttons are nicer than the little phatty.

Soundwise though, my main point, the vcos in the slim/little just have more life, more "honest" grain, more girth, more warmth, they have to warm up sure, never had a tuning problem with mine though, it has a beautiful texture to many of its sounds that I never could get on the Sub 37 (sorry but it's true and that's not my fault for discovering and conveying that 'truth'). Moog did stabilise and sterilize somewhat the Sub/37 VCOs and even putting the variance option on (I used to run my pretty high too) didn't give the same feeling and beauty of the super smooth, warm yet punchy tone of the little/slim (which btw also has hardware envelopes not software - though I know that's less of an issue these days I can still feel it), during sequences or bass playing I can feel it affects the tone or at least perception of tone, it gives the slim/little a kind of convex shape (rounded, pleasing) to it's sound while the sub 37 ALWAYS had a concave sound (scooped/hollow). That was regardless of mixer levels or MD/OL.

Lastly, Overload is just better than multidrive, by better I mean it sounds beautiful, while MD just sounds aggressive (never beautiful). MD can get you aggro/mad sounds, but it doesn't sound like OL on the slim/little which to me really does feel more like piping a minimoog back through its own input, the OL on the Slim/little kind of 'glows' and blossoms with the sound, the distortion is some of the best I've heard in my life, the multidrive meanwhile always just sounded kind of functional, impressive but functional, less mojo.

Of course yes features on subs are much higher, you will do things no little/slim can do, but frankly I don't give a crap about that, when I want moog I know the range of sounds I'm going to want and Little/slim delivers it, sub 37 gave me more sounds but less of them really blew my socks off, that to me is an important thing. Esp factoring in price and that I wouldn't really want to have slaverings over moog over everything anyway, for FX the sub 37 is going to run rings around little/slim but for the kind of analog you use daily, 9 times out of 10 in a track, the little/slim is more than capable of many, many sounds, it is actually more flexible than a minimoog, but with only 2 oscs, but you have the LFO without sacrificing an OSC anyway so on that score it's not that different. It's not a minimoog obviously, it doesn't compete there on sound nor overall prowess, but then it doesn't cost £3k+ in fact I got my slim for almost TEN TIMES LESS than a new minimoog, and other than bragging rights it does anything I need from moog.

Sub 37 is nice but doesn't have the tone, it sounds better than most other synths out there but not better than other moogs. If that's important then be careful not to just jump on the 'more features = more fun' train which often derails when you aren't loving the sound 6 months down the line. Been there, done that. Learned.

Tone. Over. Features.
Old 24th May 2017
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsHead View Post
In the context of not being loaded, owning a System 8 and wanting, not needing a Moog. Cheers............

I currently own a System 8, which is a keeper for me.
The knob per function thing is it's best feature.

I've never owned a Moog. So I'm thinking of getting one to satisfy my lust and put a tick on my bucket list.

I've got more than enough gear and the System 8 covers everything I need.

I'm thinking the Sub Phatty is enough. I've played it and it's a beautiful thing but will I have a nagging doubt that I should have bought the 37? Or considering that I have a System 8 and a Blofeld (another keeper) would the Phatty satisfy the Moog itch.

Thanks.
Neither. Get a little phatty used on ebay for a massive saving and be done with 'moog'. You'll have all the mono moog sound you need and you'll not find better tone in the subs! Have had both. If it were between voyager, minimoog and phatty? maybe a different question because all 3 have great tone, but as money IS important, I'd still go with phatty. With moog experience you may find, as i and many did, that a little goes a long way, the little/slim is far more flexible in a modern DAW setup than most give it credit for and it has beautiful tone, filter, Overload and a pretty decent interface (never held me back!).

Sub 37 is a nicer 'instrument', looks beautiful, impresses your friends, you'll drool over it, but I sold mine. Not that it sounds bad at all but it is expensive for what you may end up doing with it, esp as only a mono, though I think it's way better than the pro 2s and the mophos of this world. I just think maybe you should realise than even a mere little/slim phatty can give a lot of moog fun, the interface is a non issue for most, and the sound at a very important level, is to me and many a lot nicer, a lot more 'moog' and a lot more analog than the sub 37.

Check my soundcloud link posted in my last reply above to hear more of the aggresive stuff + some vanilla moog attempts. On the slim/little that 'real moog' tone is just there, you don't have to tweak it in. I've not really missed the extra features on the sub 37 vs the slim, in fact I adore the slim for its sound, features (just enough fun stuff), the way it sits below my DAW screen for instant production and the price... cheap on ebay (mine was half retail price pretty much). I bought my sub 37 brand new in 2015 and sold it in 2016. Selling the slim phatty is not an option. It's brilliant value for the sound quality it delivers.

Well you did ask...

all that said, you won't be unhappy with sub 37, esp if you've not really got into the nuances of analog/moog tone and just want a cool looking great sounding mono synth.

btw the keybed is crap on it, black keys stiff, keybed often wonky. beward.

Slim = play from JD-800 keybed = no issue.
Old 24th May 2017
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 View Post
Neither. Get a little phatty used on ebay for a massive saving and be done with 'moog'. You'll have all the mono moog sound you need and you'll not find better tone in the subs! Have had both. If it were between voyager, minimoog and phatty? maybe a different question because all 3 have great tone, but as money IS important, I'd still go with phatty. With moog experience you may find, as i and many did, that a little goes a long way, the little/slim is far more flexible in a modern DAW setup than most give it credit for and it has beautiful tone, filter, Overload and a pretty decent interface (never held me back!).

Sub 37 is a nicer 'instrument', looks beautiful, impresses your friends, you'll drool over it, but I sold mine. Not that it sounds bad at all but it is expensive for what you may end up doing with it, esp as only a mono, though I think it's way better than the pro 2s and the mophos of this world. I just think maybe you should realise than even a mere little/slim phatty can give a lot of moog fun, the interface is a non issue for most, and the sound at a very important level, is to me and many a lot nicer, a lot more 'moog' and a lot more analog than the sub 37.

Check my soundcloud link posted in my last reply above to hear more of the aggresive stuff + some vanilla moog attempts. On the slim/little that 'real moog' tone is just there, you don't have to tweak it in. I've not really missed the extra features on the sub 37 vs the slim, in fact I adore the slim for its sound, features (just enough fun stuff), the way it sits below my DAW screen for instant production and the price... cheap on ebay (mine was half retail price pretty much). I bought my sub 37 brand new in 2015 and sold it in 2016. Selling the slim phatty is not an option. It's brilliant value for the sound quality it delivers.

Well you did ask...

all that said, you won't be unhappy with sub 37, esp if you've not really got into the nuances of analog/moog tone and just want a cool looking great sounding mono synth.

btw the keybed is crap on it, black keys stiff, keybed often wonky. beward.

Slim = play from JD-800 keybed = no issue.
What can I say. A very direct reply. Putting my realistic head on. The Slim and Little need some attention. Thanks.
Old 24th May 2017
  #26
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 View Post
It's not a minimoog obviously, it doesn't compete there on sound nor overall prowess, but then it doesn't cost £3k+ in fact I got my slim for almost TEN TIMES LESS than a new minimoog, and other than bragging rights it does anything I need from moog.
No comment on the Sub 37 since I've only played one once, but I do agree with you on the remarkable sound of the LP/Slim. Also, I love the interface. I think it's brilliant! I don't miss having knob-per-function at all on that synth. And the sound coming out of it is classic Moog (not to be confused with "vintage" Moog). When I later got hold of a Voyager, I briefly considered selling it but in the end decided it was worth keeping. In fact, the Voyager actually increased my appreciation for the LP. As I understand it, Bob Moog had a direct hand in the design of the LP/Slim and to me, it shows.
Old 24th May 2017
  #27
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The Hamburglar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro5 View Post
the interface isn't that much less hands on than my sub 37
I appreciate the thoroughness of your post, but this honestly undercuts the value of everything you said.
Old 24th May 2017
  #28
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On second thought, a 37 CV and a Minitaur and some Mooger Foogers are what it will take to scratch my Moog itch. Getting a real Moog with knob-per and decent CV integration is key, to me. Before these new features were added to the 37 I had written it off and decided on a Sub Phatty instead, but now that's changed.

Hopefully the features they added to the 37 CV will become the standard for all 37s moving forward. I don't want to deal with chasing/paying for a limited edition, and I'd rather have a black one if possible. I don't dislike the new color scheme and trim, but I don't want to pay extra for it, so to speak. It's the features that matter, though.
Old 24th May 2017
  #29
I don't want 50 shades if grit
Old 24th May 2017
  #30
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Looneytune's Avatar
I own both and the two can't compare. The Phatty finds it very difficult to keep up with my Sub 37. The sub 37 beats it in all areas.

Bass, leads and particularly drums, I never realised how good the Sub 37 is for drums. Seriously it's that good.

You need to listen to both side by side to appreciate the difference.
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