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U-He Repro-5 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #241
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
You need headphones or good monitors. The patch that starts at 2:10 in the comparison, there is a big difference in the resonance when the filter is opening up, for lack of a better term the hardware just sounds 'brassier'. Listen very closely how the sound evolves as he holds the notes down.

On my laptop speakers the difference is negligible but on big speakers there is a massive difference.
I don't understand the need for some people to nitpick and get out the audio microscope and become bogged down with minutia.

It's a software emulation of the Prophet 5, not the real hardware, but it comes damn close, and dare I say more than any other Prophet 5 emulation software including Arturia Prophet V.

I appreciate the months of dedication and attention to detail that Urs and his team put into this software, and at the price it's being offered at, he won't become a millionaire. So in a sense, at least to me it's the drive and dedication of Urs and his team to create nearly identical emulation of hardware synthesizers.

I can only suggest if minutia details are an issue for you with the Repro 5 then don't buy it. (I missed the part if you posted you planned on purchasing it).
I'm presently using the demo but plan to purchase a registered copy before the end of the year to take advantage of the $99 fantastic deal.
Old 1 week ago
  #242
Urs
Lives for gear
Release Candidate is up:

Repro V1.1 Release Candidate Rev 6780 (Topic in the 'u-he' forum) | KVR Audio Forum



The example discussed is very minimal. I have to specifically concentrate on the volume and sound of the resonance, which is a bit louder and precise on the P5 as opposed to our software.

The video I posted yesterday compares two Prophet 5s (Rev 3.3), one panned hard left, the other hard right, just the first factory bank. Everyone can compare the original factory bank in Repro-5 as well, which we added (Thanks to Dave & John for letting us!). Here's the vid:

YouTube
Old 1 week ago
  #243
Urs
Lives for gear
(ah, my bad, I had posted that video in the other thread over in the news section)
Old 1 week ago
  #244
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
You need headphones or good monitors.
Equator D5mkII and BeyerDynamic DT880 Pro here. Try again next time.


The difference is not earth-shattering. The character of the filters is still the same - differences in calibration are a normal thing even between two different hardware units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs View Post
Well, the example he chose is actually quite clear. If listening for differences in the resonance, I can hear it too. I consider this pretty normal. The video I linked yesterday has a shootout between two P5s with similar differences at same settings.

...and there you have it.
Old 1 week ago
  #245
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
@Urs: here's something that just popped in my mind (and I haven't had time to check it out yet for myself, so it might be a feature under the hood).

With the P5, there's of course a microprocessor that's doing voice assignment, knob & keyboard scanning, CV generation, etc. Could it be that in the original units, there's unintended delays when certain keys are pressed at certain times because it hasn't finished the previous subroutine or something - which then translates as a spread/delay/organic-what-have-you? Or would you say it's negligible.

Ultimately this is nothing something I think one'd consciously wish to emulate (cycle-accurate emulation matters more for vintage videogame consoles and digital gear) especially with plain old MIDI already being enthusiastic in introducing random jitter/delay all by itself, but I've only seen/played a P5rev2 in the wild exactly once, so...
Old 1 week ago
  #246
Urs
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
@Urs: here's something that just popped in my mind (and I haven't had time to check it out yet for myself, so it might be a feature under the hood).

With the P5, there's of course a microprocessor that's doing voice assignment, knob & keyboard scanning, CV generation, etc. Could it be that in the original units, there's unintended delays when certain keys are pressed at certain times because it hasn't finished the previous subroutine or something - which then translates as a spread/delay/organic-what-have-you? Or would you say it's negligible.

Ultimately this is nothing something I think one'd consciously wish to emulate (cycle-accurate emulation matters more for vintage videogame consoles and digital gear) especially with plain old MIDI already being enthusiastic in introducing random jitter/delay all by itself, but I've only seen/played a P5rev2 in the wild exactly once, so...
I think someone once did the math that turning knobs has an update rate of less than 1kHz per parameter per voice.

However, all voltages spilled by the microcontroller end up in Sample & Hold units which provide CVs for the otherwise completely analogue synth engine. Thus any delay in modulation whatsoever is is not due to the update rate of the CVs but to the update rate of Note control voltage the Gate signal. At just below 1kHz this would be the same delay as MIDI. In case of the video we've see where Repro-5 was played through MIDI, it is then pretty much the same.

Nevertheless, for programmed sequences where a plug-in rund vs. a MIDI hardware synth... the plug-in has lower per-voice latency. While that's because of MIDI I think you got a point there!
Old 1 week ago
  #247
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Equator D5mkII and BeyerDynamic DT880 Pro here. Try again next time.


The difference is not earth-shattering. The character of the filters is still the same - differences in calibration are a normal thing even between two different hardware units.




...and there you have it.
Look I’m not trying at anything. And also nobody asked you to specify your monitoring setup. I didn’t come here to get into a point scoring match with you. To me the difference was not insignificant. In audio engineering it’s the small differences that are important to us. That’s why we shoot out mics, comps and preamps etc etc. A lot of the stuff we pick out are the small details that a layman maybe wouldn’t notice. Right now the main difference between plugin emulations and the hardware is in the fine details.

I said I could hear a clear difference on a YouTube demo, you said there was barely any, but it has since been confirmed by Urs and others that there is a definite difference. At some point when I have the time I will download the demo and do my own testing against the real hardware. I will also investigate if the difference in character is indeed a gain structure issue like Urs has mentioned. But that will have to wait until after the new year.
Old 1 week ago
  #248
Urs
Lives for gear
I think if you know what to focus on, one can always hear and quantify a difference. The question is always whether it's circumstantial (e.g. oscillator phase) or possible to tweak the parameters to get closer, or if it's within the acceptable tolerances between units anyway or if it's a flaw in the model.

I do know many people who prefer one Minimoog over another. Apparently, there are also people who prefer latter over former. Furthermore, if you record a Minimoog on a hot summer day you'll hear a difference to a recording during a chilled winter month. I use the Minimoog example because reckon that's more apparent with fully discrete architectures than integrated ones, but maybe not if part count has something to do with that.
Old 1 week ago
  #249
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re5etuk's Avatar
i had a play on the demo for both repro1 and 5 , both sounded great to me , and actually ran on my mac.. good enough to render off lots of samples / one note hits.

everytime i see the same conversation about hardware and software my general rule is. ' the only option for me is generally the software version due to price , even if its not quite right , if it sounds good i'm happy ... i dont have the option of spending $1000's on the hardware , so i move on with my life and use plugins or purchase any recent remake (i'm happy with sh01a , ju06 , tr8 etc). only expensive boxes ive bought have either been unique boxes (elektron) or the avalon bassline.

and once ive added fx , eq , mangled and badly mixed any recording , i doubt anyone could tell if its hardware / software , or even care.
if anyone ever sells a cd/album/stream for $10 for version recorded with software plugin , and more expensive for the hardware audio version , I'd be very surprised,
Old 1 week ago
  #250
Gear Addict
 
nednerd's Avatar
Interesting product.
I don't really care if it has the same exact envelope timing behaviour
as some particular P5 in the Uhe offices.

What matters to me is: Does it sound good enough to inspire me.
The HW P5 certainly does.
I am not going to find out by watching Youtube A/B comparisons.

I need to play it myself, use it in a musical context for at least a couple of weeks,
record it and listen to it via a known monitoring chain. Maybe run it through some outboard.
Only than will I know what it can do. Just like with any other synth HW or SW.

Yes, I hear differences in the A/B comparison vids.
And I assume it does not sound like an old P5 because it is not an old P5.
Part of the Repro-5 sound will be the DA converter that first gives life to it.
...and there are considerable differences in sound depending on how analog hardware is recorded as well, so, whatever.

So far with me, no SW emulation has survived longer than the usual new gear honeymoon grace period.
After that it's sound or UI got on my nerves and I returned to the luxury of using the original if available.
Looking forward to find out if this one if this one is different.
Old 1 week ago
  #251
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by re5etuk View Post
i had a play on the demo for both repro1 and 5 , both sounded great to me , and actually ran on my mac.. good enough to render off lots of samples / one note hits.
and are you sending Urs a compensation check for those samples?
Old 1 week ago
  #252
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nednerd View Post

So far with me, no SW emulation has survived longer than the usual new gear honeymoon grace period.
After that it's sound or UI got on my nerves and I returned to the luxury of using the original if available.
Looking forward to find out if this one if this one is different.
I think that's sad you haven't found inspiration or satisfaction with software synthesizers.
Don't get me wrong, I'm basically a hardware kind of guy using Moog Voyager, Korg Odyssey FS REV1, MiniBrute, DSI OB6, Emu Emulator II+HD, Emax SE Plus, D50, Ensoniq VFX-SD, King Korg and Wavestation EX keyboard. Fostex A8L/R 8 track reel to reel, Tascam M308B 8 channel analog mixer, and on and on.

But I have some software synths that sound wonderful. For example G Force Oddity(which I still use because it sounds wonderful), Minimonsta, M Tron Pro, Omnisphere(my desert island soft synth) and just last weekend I was using Model E and creating some patches, and I was surprised how good it still can sound with user created patches.
These are a few examples, and especially for those of us who can't afford a $5-6000 Prophet 5 or $4000 Mellotron, GOOD software can still get us in the ballpark.
I'm sorry, but I couldn't help find some of your commentary a bit elitist.
Old 1 week ago
  #253
Gear Addict
 
nednerd's Avatar
Well, it's a personal thing isn't it?
I am happy for everyone who has fun with SW instruments.
I am also open to the clear advantages they provide.
I also like the fact that they are affordable.

Elitist? Why? I was lucky enough to buy some HW back when it was cheap.
There are lots of synths I would like to use but cannot afford.
Limitations are relative. I am quite happy with- and thankful for what I have.

Anyway.
So far for me, SW instruments always started to feel a bit stale after a while.
Old 1 week ago
  #254
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nednerd View Post
Well, it's a personal thing isn't it?
I am happy for everyone who has fun with SW instruments.
I am also open to the clear advantages they provide.
I also like the fact that they are affordable.

But so far for me, SW instruments always started to feel a bit stale after a while.
I agree with this, repro-5 is the first I really enjoy. The simplicity and great sound works beautifully
Old 1 week ago
  #255
Gear Addict
 
nednerd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hearteh View Post
I agree with this, repro-5 is the first I really enjoy. The simplicity and great sound works beautifully
Cool! This is what I am hoping for
Old 1 week ago
  #256
Gear Maniac
Yesterday I downloaded the Repro 1, I didn’t have much time to play with it, but let me tell you, I have the impression that this is the best monophonic software instrument out there.

First of all the sound, it sounds amazing, great bass sounds and lead sounds as well, you don’t even need polyphony with such great sounds.

Secondly, I want to mention one very important aspect, the ‘user interface’. Ergonomically its workflow is almost perfect and user friendly. All the functions and parameters are very logically and carefully placed in order to offer a pleasant experience to the user.

And additionally I want to mention the Repro 1’s step sequencer. It has a 32 x 2 step sequencer which operates exactly as the hardware analogue synths operate and even better. Basically, the synth it has a 64 step sequencer, with step recording mode, transponce function, and obviously in step mode you can add ‘manually’ rests in whatever steps you want in order to give rhythmic dimension into your patterns. In front of you, you have basically a matrix which gives you a perfect visual perception and control of the parameters of all the available steps which are 64 in total.

And yet another thing, this software instrument it is organized in such a way in order to operate exactly as a hardware analogue synthesizer. Through the offered detailed midi mapping you can map your midi keyboard, making your own bass lines and patterns from your midi keyboard without to even need to touch your mouse or to watch at your computer screen.

What else can I say, a big Bravo deserves to this company.

As for the Repro 5 I didn’t test it yet, but I’m sure that it is amazing as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #257
Lives for gear
 
seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nednerd View Post
Well, it's a personal thing isn't it?
I am happy for everyone who has fun with SW instruments.
I am also open to the clear advantages they provide.
I also like the fact that they are affordable.

Elitist? Why? I was lucky enough to buy some HW back when it was cheap.
There are lots of synths I would like to use but cannot afford.
Limitations are relative. I am quite happy with- and thankful for what I have.

Anyway.
So far for me, SW instruments always started to feel a bit stale after a while.
I totally understand how software emulations could sound stale as compared to being able to use real hardware, especially vintage analog.
I recently demoed some Emax sound samples from DSF and thought the examples were very good, especially for someone who doesn't own or have access to a real Emax. I thought I would be able to supplement them for my Emax sound and downsize some of my gear by letting the Emax go.
Like you, since I have access to the real thing found I preferred the HW version better, all though the samples from DSF are quite good and I would recommend them for use.

Elitist, I won't get into specifics except in re-reading ALL of your comments you were condescending not only to Urs but others who've made comments about the Repro 5, making note you have one to play and how software instruments become boring to you. Pity the rest of the unwashed who use software either by choice or economic necessity.

And you further reinforced my opinion(and that's just all it is), when you wrote you are happy for people who use software and have FUN, yes FUN with their software instruments.
There are a lot of good very talented musicians who use software instruments in a creative professional manner. I think Hans Zimmer would have a good laugh at the FUN comment.
Fun as not to be taken seriously.

But this is getting into a whole different argument, which I know neither of us want to get into.

I appreciate your response and your comment in regards to my reply to yours.
I also appreciate you accepted it and responded in a calm, rational way without getting personal. Thank you for that.

Just keep in mind many of us don't have access to the real hardware and some vintage synthesizers are out of the question economically anymore, so if we can have a software emulation this good, we appreciate all the hard work and meticulous attention to detail to be as authentic as technologically possible.

Thank you.
Old 1 week ago
  #258
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intuitionnyc's Avatar
Not really contributing much here, but I love it. My CPU takes a huge hit, but it sounds wonderful. For ME, the differences between the two are pretty subtle. I THINK I hear some stuff sometimes, but I can't say that I have experienced and trained enough ears to tell. All I know is that something that sounds that great for $100 with no tech fees if it breaks is good enough for me over a $5000 to $6000 machine that MAY break at some point. This has curbed my need for a Prophet 5 for quite a bit.
Old 1 week ago
  #259
Gear Addict
 
nednerd's Avatar
Now I have also offended Hans Zimmer? Wow!
GS has changed a lot.

Earlier on in this thread someone asked why there were not more P5 owners posting results of their comparison.
I think you (seamonkey) might have given the answer.




Edit:
Fun fact: I don't even own the synth Repro-5 aspires to mimic. Nor did I state that I do.

Last edited by nednerd; 1 week ago at 08:52 PM.. Reason: FUN
Old 1 week ago
  #260
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seamonkey's Avatar
I apologize to the OP and Urs for going off topic.

Back to the good stuff.
Old 1 week ago
  #261
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
I love how loud these synths are, straight off the bat they are bloody loud and furious.., I've had hardware synths that take forever just to get a decent levels on, these things go boom straight out of the blocks..
Old 1 week ago
  #262
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nednerd View Post
Now I have also offended Hans Zimmer? Wow!
GS has changed a lot.

Earlier on in this thread someone asked why there were not more P5 owners posting results of their comparison.
I think you (seamonkey) might have given the answer.




Edit:
Fun fact: I don't even own the synth Repro-5 aspires to mimic. Nor did I state that I do.
Please write off my comments as the result of having an off day.
I have 2 rules I live by when posting on the internet.
1 is don't post while or after having consumed adult beverages
2 is don't post when your in a grumpy mood.
I broke one of those rules today and I've only had coffee and water.

Apologies if I offended you or misinterpreted your comments.
Have a good day.

ps, I worked off some frustration using the demo and feel much better.
Thank you Urs.
Old 1 week ago
  #263
Urs
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
I have 2 rules I live by when posting on the internet.
1 is don't post while or after having consumed adult beverages
2 is don't post when your in a grumpy mood.
Unfortunately, both states kind of override the rules laid out for them.

#----

As for HW vs SW... the discussion will never stop. Should I ever get a slogan engraved on my tombstone, it'll say "he spent half of his life debunking the myth that software is somehow inferior to hardware". OTOH I have found the epitome of my musical expression in Eurorack gear. The tactile aspect of performance can never be recreated in software alone. It's a "gettable" point of view. As is the convenience of working ITB for a production scneario, with software that just sounds right.

*burp* (violated 1)
Old 1 week ago
  #264
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar


Digitakt for drums, repro 5 for synths, in particular preset called Heidi, love that one..
Old 1 week ago
  #265
Gear Maniac
 
_ADSR_'s Avatar
Well Great...

After listening to all the videos I now want 2 Prophet 5's so I can play them in stereo.



Oh, and may as well toss in the Black Arp Odyssey T-Shirt while we're at it.

Last edited by _ADSR_; 1 week ago at 03:21 AM.. Reason: I need it all
Old 6 days ago
  #266
Gear Head
 

definitely the best emulation of the prophet5 at this moment. subjectively, in my opinion, the most authentic analog emulation in software at this moment . Definitely not a replacement for the Prophet 5. If you try to do a multitrack with only repro, effect will increase and you will hear the digital nature of sound(that is not happening with HW synths). I recommend to use in small quantities with great results.. Definitely a huge respect for u-he. Again, for me this is the best emulation.
Old 6 days ago
  #267
Urs
Lives for gear
There's a good old trick to make digital synths sound more like analogue ones in a mix: Just add a tiny bit of pitchbend to each instance/track. There you go. Same thick sound as multi tracking a slowly drifting analogue synth.
Old 6 days ago
  #268
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs View Post
There's a good old trick to make digital synths sound more like analogue ones in a mix: Just add a tiny bit of pitchbend to each instance/track. There you go. Same thick sound as multi tracking a slowly drifting analogue synth.
thanks for the advice) it is applicable to any audio sources. I don't care, I have a lot of HW synths.
Old 6 days ago
  #269
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by killme View Post
If you try to do a multitrack with only repro, effect will increase and you will hear the digital nature of sound(that is not happening with HW synths)
I have no idea what you're talking about. In other words: nope. Use different Voice Detune value for each instance, and different chip presets and voice pannings, shakes things up quite a bit.
Old 6 days ago
  #270
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about. In other words: nope. Use different Voice Detune value for each instance, and different chip presets and voice pannings, shakes things up quite a bit.
accumulative effect..its all about hw vs vst
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