The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
U-He Repro-5
Old 20th December 2020 | Show parent
  #871
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs ➡️
Yeah, our server got a bit of a hiccup when the sale started, but that seems to have settled.
Thats what I figured happened haha. At those prices, I couldn't resist getting my foot in the door with the U-He family Im sure a lot of folks took them up on it. Repro itself sounds KILLER too, great job over there!
Old 10th January 2021 | Show parent
  #872
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Sale is over now
Old 24th January 2021 | Show parent
  #873
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I'm having an issue after upgrading to Big Sur. Repro5 will receive CC messages from my midi controller but the GUI doesn't update. This is happening in Logic and Ableton Live. Anyone else experiencing this?
Old 24th January 2021 | Show parent
  #874
Urs
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deif ➡️
I'm having an issue after upgrading to Big Sur. Repro5 will receive CC messages from my midi controller but the GUI doesn't update. This is happening in Logic and Ableton Live. Anyone else experiencing this?
That's a known issue with the AU versions. We'll put out fixed versions in a few weeks (currently adding native support for Apple M1 chips). We have a dedicated thread on KVR for this with news and stuff...
Old 24th January 2021 | Show parent
  #875
My M1 Mac Mini arrives in 2 weeks, so good timing!
Old 25th January 2021 | Show parent
  #876
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs ➡️
That's a known issue with the AU versions. We'll put out fixed versions in a few weeks (currently adding native support for Apple M1 chips). We have a dedicated thread on KVR for this with news and stuff...
Just got a new Launchkey this afternoon and first thing I did was played with Repro in Logic and saw that. Good to know Im not crazy or my system's about to blow!
Old 27th January 2021
  #877
_gl
Gear Maniac
 
_gl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
@ Urs , I just bought Repro - excellent, but I have an issue with its randomness:

I've been advocating randomness in audio plugin for decades, but there is a downside - if a plugin makes noticeable use of randomness, eg. drifting pitch, free-running oscillators, envelope slop and filter variations, or eg. in a vinyl sim plugin, random pops, then playing back the project twice can sound very different from the recorded performance, and different each time.

With synths, notes filters and envelopes that gloriously collide on certain notes don't do it on the same notes next time. That's great for live performance, but terrible for recorded music, where the playback won't exactly match the sound of the performance and/or a prior render.

I'm a programmer, and I see a solution - seed your random number generators (and similar states) on-the-fly from the current song position reported by the DAW. Then the recording's randomness would be exactly preserved for each subsequent playback, regardless of where in the project you start playback from.

In addition there could be a user-settable global random seed value, so it can all be re-randomised if the user wants to try something different (this value can also be randomised when a plugin instance is first inserted). But the new variations would then be deterministic again on playback.

The other place where it bugged me in the past is in Waves' Abbey Road Vinyl - it uses randomness for the record's simulated crackle and pops. The pops can sound great in some places, but not in others, so once you have something you like, there's no way to preserve their positions in the track (other than freeze the effect, but then you can never tweak it again, or anything prior in the fx chain, without losing the pop positions).

It would be awesome if your synths did this Urs. And all devs' plugins that use randomness noticeably.

If nothing else, say you re-render a hit single, you want it to sound exactly the same right?
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #878
Urs
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by _gl ➡️
@ Urs seed your random number generators (and similar states) on-the-fly from the current song position reported by the DAW.
We have thought of this, but there's an issue. As you certainly know, the way plug-ins work is that DAWs give them slices of time to render their stuff. That is, a sample at a distinguished song position to start with, and a number of samples to process on.

Here's the issue: Playing a few bars in a project does not always result in identical time slices.

Randomness would therefore have to be something like Perlin Noise, which has considerable higher CPU cost than just filtered noise and which may not yield the kind of spectra that we seek for analogue emulations.

Furthermore one would still have slight shifts in phase our time depending on the internal granularity of a plug-in. E.g. small pitch drift is usually not evaluated on a sample-per-sample basis but computed as linear interpolation between more roughly grained key frames. Phase shifts between oscillators would still be inevitable.

Lastly, many DAWs render a mixdown and/or a "live instance" as opposed to a normal playback track with very different buffer sizes, sample rates even, sometimes even dependent on whether there's track automation or not.

Hence, I'm not sure how much effort would need to go into this, how much CPU/overhead it would cost and who would really benefit from it.
Old 27th January 2021
  #879
Lives for gear
 
Acid Mitch's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Another issue would be when users are sequencing from an external source and daw playback is stopped most of the time..
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #880
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just record the take as in the old days...
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #881
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Now, there is an oxymoron for you: reproduceable randomness

Quote:
Originally Posted by _gl ➡️
@ Urs , I just bought Repro - excellent, but I have an issue with its randomness:

I've been advocating randomness in audio plugin for decades, but there is a downside - if a plugin makes noticeable use of randomness, eg. drifting pitch, free-running oscillators, envelope slop and filter variations, or eg. in a vinyl sim plugin, random pops, then playing back the project twice can sound very different from the recorded performance, and different each time.

With synths, notes filters and envelopes that gloriously collide on certain notes don't do it on the same notes next time. That's great for live performance, but terrible for recorded music, where the playback won't exactly match the sound of the performance and/or a prior render.

I'm a programmer, and I see a solution - seed your random number generators (and similar states) on-the-fly from the current song position reported by the DAW. Then the recording's randomness would be exactly preserved for each subsequent playback, regardless of where in the project you start playback from.

In addition there could be a user-settable global random seed value, so it can all be re-randomised if the user wants to try something different (this value can also be randomised when a plugin instance is first inserted). But the new variations would then be deterministic again on playback.

The other place where it bugged me in the past is in Waves' Abbey Road Vinyl - it uses randomness for the record's simulated crackle and pops. The pops can sound great in some places, but not in others, so once you have something you like, there's no way to preserve their positions in the track (other than freeze the effect, but then you can never tweak it again, or anything prior in the fx chain, without losing the pop positions).

It would be awesome if your synths did this Urs. And all devs' plugins that use randomness noticeably.

If nothing else, say you re-render a hit single, you want it to sound exactly the same right?
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #882
Lives for gear
 
Jpro600k's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
Now, there is an oxymoron for you: reproduceable randomness
Is it accurate randomness?
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #883
afa
Gear Maniac
 
afa's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpro600k ➡️
Is it accurate randomness?
The concept of a number sequence that looks random but is, in fact, deterministic (can be reproduced), is called pseudorandomness and is very common in computer software. It is the basis of many cryptographic algorithms, by the way. True randomness (as in cannot be reproduced) is not as common (sometimes not as desirable) in computing.
Old 28th January 2021 | Show parent
  #884
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
My suggestion for a new feature is a new type of parameter randomise that is simultaneously deterministic and truly random.
Old 28th January 2021 | Show parent
  #885
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I've reached out to UHE regarding randomness as well and got back an interesting response. It was basically "we don't like randomness;" whether it was due to getting the synth well outside of sweet spots (or usable spots) or something else, UHE doesn't seem interested.

I use randomness all the time for my sound design at work. it's a very basic tool.

However, don't be upset! There's a great way to get most of what you want, right now! Just grab Plogue Bidule! When you import a vst, you can randomize or morph all of the settings, or from a list of settings. This list is auto-populated for any vst that has a parameter that is exposed to midi or other types of data. It's my not so secret weapon! Try it on vst synths, fx, sequencers, etc. You can load Bidule inside a DAW, like Bitwig, and load the vst inside the Bidule instance! Done!
Old 28th January 2021 | Show parent
  #886
Gear Maniac
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!
Old 28th January 2021 | Show parent
  #887
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Analog randomness just sounds more random to me.
Old 28th January 2021 | Show parent
  #888
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs ➡️
We have thought of this, but there's an issue. As you certainly know, the way plug-ins work is that DAWs give them slices of time to render their stuff. That is, a sample at a distinguished song position to start with, and a number of samples to process on.

Here's the issue: Playing a few bars in a project does not always result in identical time slices.

Randomness would therefore have to be something like Perlin Noise, which has considerable higher CPU cost than just filtered noise and which may not yield the kind of spectra that we seek for analogue emulations.

Furthermore one would still have slight shifts in phase our time depending on the internal granularity of a plug-in. E.g. small pitch drift is usually not evaluated on a sample-per-sample basis but computed as linear interpolation between more roughly grained key frames. Phase shifts between oscillators would still be inevitable.

Lastly, many DAWs render a mixdown and/or a "live instance" as opposed to a normal playback track with very different buffer sizes, sample rates even, sometimes even dependent on whether there's track automation or not.

Hence, I'm not sure how much effort would need to go into this, how much CPU/overhead it would cost and who would really benefit from it.
OK so dumb question but given the above what about an option in the plugin for dynamic/static "randomness"? ie: for the static version there is a button that generates a new seed for the generator but that seed is always the same until the user clicks that button again. dynamic would be the way it works currently.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #889
Gear Head
 
Hi All,

Starting to use REPRO more as my VCO analog poly quest seems to have hit a dead end (I've compared it to both a P12 and a P'08 and there's no question that it nails the vintage P5 vibe much better...especially with the Old P5 tweak).

So I thought...might as well make it a P10 by layering 2 instances simultaneously. But, aye...there's the rub...

I'm running a Mac Pro 5,1 with an upgraded X5680 (6 core) and 32 gigs of ram, with a Focusrite 6i6 and Repro's presets sometime run 56% of my CPU (according to Tracktion). No HQ and with Multicore on.

By itself, it's fine, but I'm concerned once I add effects and 5-6 more instruments (plus some audio tracks), I might get more pronounced popping and clicking (I get the occasional blip). Any thoughts on what I could change that would help here?
Old 29th January 2021
  #890
Lives for gear
 
syntonica's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Repro will eat your CPU for breakfast on certain patches, especially those with audio rate modulation. Really, all you can do is freeze your tracks as needed. That, or spring for a new M1.
Old 29th January 2021
  #891
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
You would really need a better CPU.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #892
Lives for gear
 
Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➡️
You would really need a better CPU.
Yeah even the trashcan would be so so.

It can do it, but not much more. If you want to use alot of VI's (especially poly VI's) you will soon beg for more power.

Remind the 2013 trashcan is already old. the 5.1 ( I had 2 of em around 2005) is ancient if you want to use nowadays state of the art hi res plugs.

I used a hack (14core i9) and now a 16c MacPro and boy, even on these I must check cpu loads all of the time.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #893
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septic ➡️
the 5.1 ( I had 2 of em around 2005) is ancient if you want to use nowadays state of the art hi res plugs.
Did you go forward in time and bring them back from 2010 when they were released?
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #894
Lives for gear
 
Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata ➡️
Did you go forward in time and bring them back from 2010 when they were released?
Whatamistaketomake

Youre right those were dual and later quad core G5s
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #895
Gear Head
 
The new Mac Mini's with i7 and 32gb of ram...any thoughts?

Or, do I have to go 2k plus on a macbook pro?
Old 30th January 2021 | Show parent
  #896
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrcr2 ➡️
The new Mac Mini's with i7 and 32gb of ram...any thoughts?

Or, do I have to go 2k plus on a macbook pro?
Forget Intel on the Apple platform at this point. Apple's own silicon (the M1 chip) is a lot more forward looking as far as upgrading your studio machine is concerned right now. It also kind of destroys most Intel chips at the moment. Another thing worth mentioning is the latency in general use (opening apps and general tasking etc). According to the early adopters, the M1 is leaps and bounds better in this area. I bought a 2020 i7 imac and put 128gb of ram in it but to be honest with you it feels a little sluggish to me in this department. Maybe just a little better than my 5.1 Mac Pro with an NVMe ssd boot disk but not much. Was disappointed in that regard. For me it is a stopgap machine though and once Apple ramps up its silicon rollout I will jump ship. The screen is pretty lush though.

The other obvious thing you could do is splash out on the Prophet 5 rev4. My iMac was about as much so comparing prices maybe you're better off just buying the genuine article. You'd certainly get a lot more life out of the rev4 than any Apple machine you could buy. And of course all the other things (tangible and intangible) you get going the hardware route. Just a thought.
Old 30th January 2021 | Show parent
  #897
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septic ➡️
Whatamistaketomake

Youre right those were dual and later quad core G5s
Man I loved that machine! I have a dual core sitting out in the garage. By the time I got it to replace my aging and falling apart dual G4 machine, I think the 2010s were the latest rev so I got it cheap as hell, but it just did not get me any farther along then my G4 was so I had to buy an actual Intel a couple months later.

Man let me tell you though, it was nice seeing Mac OS Leopard finally run on a PowerPC like it was supposed to. My dual G4 and TiPowerBook were so slow running 10.5 that G5 was a dream. That thing would've been so awesome had I gotten it a few years earlier when it was actually current haha.

@ spdrcr2 - shouldn't be too bad. I have one with 16GB and havent gotten Repro to max out anything yet, but then again I havent really done anything major with it (only had it a month). Compared to Pigments, which is unusable in Logic Pro at all here unless I turn the buffer up high enough to where I cant play it in real time, I can probably load 10 Repro's and tweak away before I hit that level of CPU use heh.
Old 30th January 2021 | Show parent
  #898
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf ➡️
I bought a 2020 i7 imac and put 128gb of ram in it but to be honest with you it feels a little sluggish to me in this department. Maybe just a little better than my 5.1 Mac Pro with an NVMe ssd boot disk but not much. Was disappointed in that regard. For me it is a stopgap machine though and once Apple ramps up its silicon rollout I will jump ship. The screen is pretty lush though.

The other obvious thing you could do is splash out on the Prophet 5 rev4. My iMac was about as much so comparing prices maybe you're better off just buying the genuine article. You'd certainly get a lot more life out of the rev4 than any Apple machine you could buy. And of course all the other things (tangible and intangible) you get going the hardware route. Just a thought.
See the problem is, if I'm going to get the 5, I'm going to get the 10. The bigger (and sillier) perspective is that puts me in OB6 + P6 territory and I'm willfully ignorant enough to believe 2021 will be THE year of the 8+ voice VCO synth with modulation options + EFX. Everything is so close, I have faith that someone will deliver. I'm willing to hold off on making a major purchase through summer.

"Maybe just a little better..." is very telling. The new mac mini with the apple chip is cheaper too, but I'll really have to investigate program compatibility.

Thanks for the perspective....
Old 30th January 2021 | Show parent
  #899
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata ➡️
@ spdrcr2 - shouldn't be too bad. I have one with 16GB and havent gotten Repro to max out anything yet, but then again I havent really done anything major with it (only had it a month). Compared to Pigments, which is unusable in Logic Pro at all here unless I turn the buffer up high enough to where I cant play it in real time, I can probably load 10 Repro's and tweak away before I hit that level of CPU use heh.
Wow, okay encouraging. Looks like I can sell the pro for about what I bought it so this may work out after all. I'll take any space savings I can get.
Old 30th January 2021 | Show parent
  #900
Lives for gear
 
Septic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrcr2 ➡️

"Maybe just a little better..." is very telling. The new mac mini with the apple chip is cheaper too, but I'll really have to investigate program compatibility.

.
The macmini m1 will be good for playing live U-he instruments, but you will be restricted to a few tracks. The multicore stats of that machine isnt that good. Singlecore-wise it is the best there is now. But you really need the cores if you want a arrangement with more than a few VI's.

If you combine a lot of outboard HW synths and just a few VI's the Macmini M1 would be sufficient I suppose. I am really envious on that 1700 singlecore score. (I got about 1200 with the mac pro and hack)

But than again, you will need alot of ram, and that is also a bit on the low side on the macmini. My current project uses 18GB and I only have a few Kontakt Revolution drumcomputer libs loaded and a handfull of UVI samplers.

Total memload on osx in activitymonitor is 44 GB.

Take that in consideration. The macmini's come a 16GB maxed out (although they have a different handling of the ram onboard)

I would wait for the M1/2 m1x Imac. That might be a sweet spot for alot of audioapps
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 189 views: 21920
Avatar for MarsBot
MarsBot 29th August 2017
replies: 258 views: 35151
Avatar for mpresev
mpresev 22nd July 2019
replies: 575 views: 37237
Avatar for Sharp11
Sharp11 3rd October 2018
replies: 92 views: 5775
Avatar for LotuZia
LotuZia 29th November 2019
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump