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Novation Peak
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3961
TJe
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by camarao View Post
I watched your video. It was not different from my personal experience with the Peak.
I also created my own wavetables and I still think the same: the sound of this wavetables seem very similar (not the "same", as you wrongly quoted me).
I know they are very different, of course, but there is something about them, I don't know what, that seems that they sound very specific, from the same source, not different enough.
Sorry I couldn't explain it better.
I also have a Waldorf XTK and it's wavetables seem a lot more different from each other to me.
The main drawback for me is that the filter doesn't open enough on the Peak/Summit.That's why it may sound bland,dull to some people i think.
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3962
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJe View Post
The main drawback for me is that the filter doesn't open enough on the Peak/Summit.That's why it may sound bland,dull to some people i think.
Maybe it's that, now that you say it.
But we should keep in mind that filter keytracking is engaged by default in the init patch.
Even so, I tend to think the same as you.
Even without filter tracking the keyboard, there is something "boxy" about the Peak sound.
It doesn't seem open enough..
Maybe, different units are calibrated differently...
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3963
Lives for gear
 
Synthbuilder's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJe View Post
The main drawback for me is that the filter doesn't open enough on the Peak/Summit.
You can use the modulation section to open up the filter more. You select the constant value parameter in the source section, I think it's called 'direct', then route it to the filter cut-off and turn the amount up to taste. It can help in opening up the filter more when filter tracking is high which closes the filter on low notes.
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3964
Gear Maniac
 
Specifically on the Wavetables there is an additional filtering going on (not the main filter).

If you put the filter in Highpass and set it to 0 .. you should be able to hear the unfiltered wavetable with all hights in there. But you cannot. It is getting filtered somewhere else.

I have to agree. Wavetables is not the strength of the synth. I has some wavetables, but something inside the synth is preventing it to be awesome.

And I have to agree on the FM thing. It is really painful and most of the time the results are just crap.

You can use wavetables and FM those ... great .. however the result will be mostly white noise (or in more general noise).
Old 20th November 2020
  #3965
Lives for gear
 
Synthbuilder's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I must admit I was a little disappointed with the supplied wavetables as well - a lot of them do sound rather similar. And five waveforms per table is a bit low compared to Waldorf's or even on the Virus TI. But creating your own wavetables can be very useful indeed. I just wish there were more than ten of them and that they could be saved with the patch.
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3966
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jm2c's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by camarao View Post
Maybe it's that, now that you say it.
But we should keep in mind that filter keytracking is engaged by default in the init patch.
Even so, I tend to think the same as you.
Even without filter tracking the keyboard, there is something "boxy" about the Peak sound.
It doesn't seem open enough..
Maybe, different units are calibrated differently...
Yes, it does sound "boxy" just like you describe to me too whenever osc mix levels are too high. Dialing them back restores a lot of liveliness to the sound IME.

Another thing, you can use the mod matrix to fully open the filter if you need that.

I personally almost always prefer the 12dB filters to the 24dB ones, lets much more harmonics pass through (obvs). Actually, I think the 24dB filter implementation is the weakest aspect of Peak. Some people dont like the additive synthesis (its not true wavetable ), but I think it's "good enough".
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3967
Lives for gear
 
jm2c's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJe View Post
I have the Summit and the A4 mk2.The Summit (or Peak) has much potential,pretty endless possibilities.For me it's a very valuable piece of gear in the studio.The oscillators sound digital,that's not as thick as a full analog poly,but its strenthn is its versatility,the immediacy.
I don't understand someone who said it needs a lot of EQ,for me it's the opposite,its sound is well balanced.With the analog waveforms+ the wavetables,FM,filter FM,ring mod all the different filter configurations (on the Summit) and the analog pre and post filter overdrive and FX distortion,you can make airy,delicate pads as much as you can make badass,nasty distorted,in your face analog-ish bass sounds.
That's a beast according to my standards.Some people are jaded or own too much high end synths!

The A4 is very special,I've hated it many times but 4 years later it's still here with me and I use it daily.It's a deep machine too,interesting modulations,multitimbral,CV track...I use a lot the CV track to modulate all my other analog synths.You will not make a fat Moog style bass line with it for sure,but it's way more flexible than a Moog or a Prophet 6.
Never selling my A4. Its a superb drum machine and a decent CV sequencer
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3968
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerErris View Post
Specifically on the Wavetables there is an additional filtering going on (not the main filter).

If you put the filter in Highpass and set it to 0 .. you should be able to hear the unfiltered wavetable with all hights in there. But you cannot. It is getting filtered somewhere else.

I have to agree. Wavetables is not the strength of the synth. I has some wavetables, but something inside the synth is preventing it to be awesome.

And I have to agree on the FM thing. It is really painful and most of the time the results are just crap.

You can use wavetables and FM those ... great .. however the result will be mostly white noise (or in more general noise).
I think it’s not filtering, but there seems to be some interpolation going on between each sample in the wave. This makes them rounded off which is similar to applying a low pass filter. Might also be caused by the fact that it is built upon additive syntheses, which limits the “resolution” because of the limited number of sinewaves added.
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZooshMcD View Post
if you can't get a good sound out of a peak or a summit then you're skills in synthesis creation are poor/weak. Apart from hard OSC sync, its a synth beast and can do it all tbh
TIL the Peak can't do hard sync....
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3970
Here for the gear
 
Just got my peak yesterday..

I was reading through this thread a bit and I have to admit, it boggles my mind that some people are calling this synth the typical synth dissing words: thin, flat, weak, cold, etc. etc..

It has a specific sound, but it is a fantastic one. If you add small amounts of modulation to many paramters, you get some of the most lively tones I've ever heard from a synth.

It's like the genius kid grandson of my esq-1.. An amazing synth. Definitely one of the all time best IMO. There's nothing else like it.

People are comparing it to the prophet REV2, which I also own. I must say that the prophet is also a very good synth, and these two compliment each other very well. REV2 is more raw and edgey. The peak is more glassy sounding, but can get very aggressive. Also, just due to the flexibility of it, it can really do any type of sound.

disclaimer: I haven't listened to any of the presets lol. So no comment on those
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3971
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c View Post
...I personally almost always prefer the 12dB filters to the 24dB ones...
The 12db filter and 12db + bandpass mode is great on the Peak, one of its strong points IME
Old 20th November 2020
  #3972
Gear Head
 
The v-sync sounds identical to hard sync. No need to sacrifice an oscillator. And all 3 osc can be syncing at once, modulated from 3 independent sources. Nice.

People complaining about the Peak: I get it, but you just have not dug in far enough. Maybe you just don't like the filter? It's subjective.

Don't push the osc or vca levels past half to preserve clean headroom. To open the filter fully with low notes, turn tracking to zero and cutoff to full, or add fixed cutoff value through the mod matrix.

Use osc reset for FM, use freerunning osc and osc/voice drift and filter diverge for analog vco style behavior.

Use postfilter overdrive for bright per-voice distortion. Use global knob distortion for darker drive. Use prefilter drive for midrange burn.
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3973
Gear Maniac
 
The wavetables on Peak/Summit are made up of additive synthesis. And it would need a higher number of partials to get the last upper frequencies. So they do infact sound a bit filtered. I often compensate with some post filter distortion. Helps get some of the edge back.

But wavetables can be awesome in combination with FM. That opens up a whole new can of worms.

And the regular filter opens all the way. You just need to turn on keytracking or use the mod matrix/envelopes to open it up a bit more. Nothing special here. I think the new Prophet 5/10 is the same way.

Most synths with analog filters need some balancing on the levels going into the filter. If not it can sound different. Sometimes it sounds cool to make the filters distort a little, but if you back off on the levels going into the filters it can make it sound alot better. Even resonance can change drastically on filters when the levels into the filter is changed.

With some programming it is not difficult to "emulate" vintage synths on this thing. Or getting a more "modern" sound out of it. It is very flexible!
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro Spy View Post
The v-sync sounds identical to hard sync. No need to sacrifice an oscillator. And all 3 osc can be syncing at once, modulated from 3 independent sources. Nice.
Good to know. I guess most VA's do sync this way, and most softsynths (except the ones literally emulating a hardware analog synth), there's no need to tie up an oscillator when it's such a basic function.
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3975
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savagery View Post
The 12db filter and 12db + bandpass mode is great on the Peak, one of its strong points IME
yes, they are!
the filters sound great, especially the bandpass, and the various analog distortion types are also unique.
that’s what’s keeping me from selling now.
i’ll try also to open more the filters in the matrix as someone suggested.
but regarding user interface, the Prophet 12 module is genius!
much faster with a lot less knobs and faders.
but that’s just my opinion...
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3976
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthworld View Post
Just got my peak yesterday..

I was reading through this thread a bit and I have to admit, it boggles my mind that some people are calling this synth the typical synth dissing words: thin, flat, weak, cold, etc. etc..
Don't forget that, on forums like this, there are some who hear with their eyes, what they've read about the design spec's and have preconceived, at least as much as much as what they hear with their ears ...

Glad to read that a fresh pair of ears is enjoying something! B)
Old 20th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3977
Lives for gear
 
DStep ATL's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro Spy View Post
The v-sync sounds identical to hard sync. No need to sacrifice an oscillator. And all 3 osc can be syncing at once, modulated from 3 independent sources. Nice.

People complaining about the Peak: I get it, but you just have not dug in far enough. Maybe you just don't like the filter? It's subjective.

Don't push the osc or vca levels past half to preserve clean headroom. To open the filter fully with low notes, turn tracking to zero and cutoff to full, or add fixed cutoff value through the mod matrix.

Use osc reset for FM, use freerunning osc and osc/voice drift and filter diverge for analog vco style behavior.

Use postfilter overdrive for bright per-voice distortion. Use global knob distortion for darker drive. Use prefilter drive for midrange burn.
It always boggles my mind that some people complain about headroom while they use the osc’s turned up all the way. It’s common sense this would be a major issue. It’s such a basic principal to balance levels going in. If it’s something you balance on a 3 osc mono synth like the mini moog, how do people do not think it would be necessary on a synth with 8 x 3 osc’s, lol. Oh well.
Old 21st November 2020
  #3978
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7Wave's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm not sure what people here mean when they describe the Peak as "dull" or "bland." It sounds great to me. If you get in there and program it the Peak does some amazing things. I know a synth can't be all things to all people, but the Peak does a great job of sounding analog when you want it to (thanks to the analog filter and NCOs) and digital and complex as well. True, the menu system takes a little getting used to, but once you get the hang of it it's pretty quick and easy to navigate and program. For a module of its size and an architecture this complex, I'd say the panel layout and number of knobs gets pretty close to knob per function. I bought mine used about a year and a half ago, and it took a few months to get used to the layout.

I've owned several synths like that, where you really have to get to know it before you learn its sweet spots and it starts to shine. The Andromeda was like that. I remember when they first came out, people were saying, "This is it? This is the super powered analog synth people have been hyping? Sounds like sh1t." But it only sounds like sh1t if you don't get in there and program it. It took a year or so before people started acknowledging what a great synth it is and how good it sounds. It took time for people to get their heads around the sheer latitude of it and really program it. The routing options of the Andromeda approach what you'd get in a modular synth.

Some people are quick to judge a synth by its presets, which is a mistake.

I also think sometimes people (myself included) come into a new synth with certain limitations in how we think, the ideas we initially have for programming a synth. It actually takes a bit of imagination to leverage a synth with a complex architecture. Programming VAST on the K2500/K2600/PC3X was a similar journey for me. I bought my K2500 in the mid 90s but wasn't really making good patches for it until maybe 2 or 3 years later.

The list goes on. I had similar experiences with the FS1R, Supernova 2, Z1, Radias, and Q. You have to think through the architecture and let it marinate in your head a bit, sort of like thinking about a chess game and coming back to it the next day with new ideas about how to use the features and parameters.

The Peak is a sonic powerhouse. The sound and specs are on par with hybrid synths that are much more expensive than what I paid for mine, and it's a notch or two above other wavetable synths in its general price range.

Is it for everybody? No, but it does an admirable job of covering a lot of bases if you're looking for a synth that's versatile and broad in its possibilities. Novation did their homework and managed to carve out their own niche, because there's really nothing else quite like the Peak or Summit.

Last edited by 7Wave; 28th November 2020 at 03:25 AM..
Old 21st November 2020 | Show parent
  #3979
Lives for gear
 
7Wave's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthworld View Post
Just got my peak yesterday..

I was reading through this thread a bit and I have to admit, it boggles my mind that some people are calling this synth the typical synth dissing words: thin, flat, weak, cold, etc. etc..

It has a specific sound, but it is a fantastic one. If you add small amounts of modulation to many paramters, you get some of the most lively tones I've ever heard from a synth.

It's like the genius kid grandson of my esq-1.. An amazing synth. Definitely one of the all time best IMO. There's nothing else like it.

People are comparing it to the prophet REV2, which I also own. I must say that the prophet is also a very good synth, and these two compliment each other very well. REV2 is more raw and edgey. The peak is more glassy sounding, but can get very aggressive. Also, just due to the flexibility of it, it can really do any type of sound.

disclaimer: I haven't listened to any of the presets lol. So no comment on those
This. Basically this.
Old 21st November 2020 | Show parent
  #3980
TJe
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Wave View Post
Some people are quick to judge a synth by its presets, which is a mistake.
If one estimates the quality of the Peak/Summit by its presets,with no doubt he will find it bland.
I've never had a synth with such poor presets.Anyone would have been able to make these presets.Obviously those haven't been made by professional nor talented sound designers (Legowelt...) @ Don Solaris would have been a much better one in my opinion,this guy has made an incredible quality work for the Blofeld.Or Noisia would have been killer too,it's a shame they just made a few wavetables but not the presets.Though I make my own sounds.
Old 21st November 2020 | Show parent
  #3981
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Wave View Post
This. Basically this.
Well in my case I have the Peak for one year.
I have the Prophet 12 module for one month.
It’s way more fun and pleasurable to program Prophet 12 than Peak.
I took one year to create 40 presets that I like in Peak, and one month to create 66 presets on Prophet 12.
I have synths since the 90s.
Don’t have any problems programming them.
I simply find more rewarding and more fun the Prophet 12. It’s that simple. Just a personal opinion.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3982
Lives for gear
 
I hope for a super Peak with 16 voices. The Summit is fugly and I don't need a keyboard.

I feel like Peak has it outgrew its shell. Has there been any rumblings about a Peak 2?
Old 1 week ago
  #3983
Here for the gear
 
Ugggh I'm starting to think i messed up getting a deepmind 12 for my first synth. The peak seems way better
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3984
Lives for gear
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by facepoppies View Post
Ugggh I'm starting to think i messed up getting a deepmind 12 for my first synth. The peak seems way better
Korg DW-8000 is the best first synth.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3985
Lives for gear
 
fusionid's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah probably not. How long has the bass station II been around for? My guess it would be a different design from the peak at this point.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3986
Gear Nut
 
KMN04's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
I hope for a super Peak with 16 voices. The Summit is fugly and I don't need a keyboard.

I feel like Peak has it outgrew its shell. Has there been any rumblings about a Peak 2?
Don Solaris is now working for Novation according to his web site bio. I hope this is a sign there is a Peak II or a new synth coming from them.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3987
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I wouldn't expect a new Peak anytime soon, there's really no need for it.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3988
TJe
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMN04 View Post
Don Solaris is now working for Novation according to his web site bio. I hope this is a sign there is a Peak II or a new synth coming from them.
Woww cool,good news!An improved version or a firmware upgrade of the Peak/Summit with a better wavetable engine with different interpolation algoritms and bug fixes would be welcome!
And why not some digital filters such as peak or comb filter in addition,if it's compatible with hardware?That would be awesome for their customers.
Old 1 week ago
  #3989
Lives for gear
 
From the BSII example, Novation seem minded to upgrade firmware as an alternative to making a new boxes ... here's hoping ...
Old 1 week ago
  #3990
Lives for gear
 
Peak 2 needs 16 voices for stereo goodness.

+1 on comb filters..... yes please. That alone would make me purchase.

More controls for less menu diving. Could be a rev2 of sorts as opposed to a brand new synth.
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