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Waldorf Quantum
Old 1 week ago
  #11071
Lives for gear
 
d33psp33d's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
I don't share your sense of entitlement.
whoa, slow down there sparky, no reason to get all prom queen Carrie on me.

I was just expanding upon the software release paradigm, 95% of developers all adhere too in the world of software development,,,, in the year 2019.

now let me get back to my entitlement.....
Old 1 week ago
  #11072
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Beta's are the usual route where new features get tested before they enter the public domain.
Isn't that what I just said?
Old 1 week ago
  #11073
Gear Maniac
no, you said pretty much the exact opposite:

Quote:
I would not be adding features in a beta. A beta should be about fixing bugs.
Old 1 week ago
  #11074
Lives for gear
 

Typically, in my experience an alpha is basically minimum viable tech to prove the basic core idea works and serves the purpose intended by the customer; beta is feature complete, with bugs. Final gold master is all bugs the producer and (test) customer have agreed to iron out before putting the software into service. Support’s job after that is to define and then try to resolve any issues that occur post-release when the software is in use.

New feature requests may come in at any time, but have to be triaged to determine whether they can be addressed while the software is in service without destabilizing its existing functioning.

There are a whole bunch of different ways to manage this, though, and with Rolf/Waldorf’s more open approach, betas are tests of new features and ongoing resolution of issues with the customer involved. In this environment, that’s a perfectly reasonable approach.
Old 1 week ago
  #11075
Lives for gear
 
d33psp33d's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Beta's are the usual route where new features get tested before they enter the public domain.
lets see how the English dictionary describes it .

"beta version. A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to try under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing inhouse and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as a result."

In english there is a large inference division between pre-release, and must request on some random forum. Go to any software download page...
Old 1 week ago
  #11076
Gear Maniac
I've done quite a few betas now, for software and hardware synths, and they were all run as "jump through a few hoops" to get aboard rather than the betas sitting on the company download page.
Old 1 week ago
  #11077
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d33psp33d View Post
lets see how the English dictionary describes it .

"beta version. A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to try under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing inhouse and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as a result."

In english there is a large inference division between pre-release, and must request on some random forum. Go to any software download page...
THE English dictionary?! There's only one, now?!

Truly, the world is collapsing.

I did software dev for over 20 years, in charge of software production all the way through. I've seen the evolution of project management from Waterfall to Kanban to Agile to Six Sigma to all the buzzword crap thrown out there to justify paying $3k for a PMP certification (which is the biggest scam in the software world; I worked beside a fully-fledged veteran PMP IBM PM at one company who absolutely killed the project she was working on; she was very adept but had absolutely no sense of the context the software was being developed in, not her fault, really, bad upper-level management who had no idea what kind of choices to make for personnel, the company unsurprisingly failed not long after I joined). What does it really boil down to? Clearing obstacles, not being an idiot, listening and then pushing back in two directions all the time until you're the final remaining scapegoat in the project and get goat-sacrificed right before release. Proof you've succeeded! If you're kept on, you did great by management but killed the team. If you're let go before the project's over, you either did great by nobody or protected the team from the usual management/customer insanity ("we want it green! no blue! no cut crystal! no wait! round! square! it's too big! too expensive!") but failed to deliver the cobbled-together monster of an end result requested by a committee of multiple experts over time (aka the F-35 project, or M1 Abrams Tank, for that matter).

I like the way Waldorf is doing things. And truly great teams need virtually no project management at all; if they do, the team's too large and project too ambitious, in my opinion, and likely to either fail or be ridiculously expensive and death-march-filled, with actual death along the way, sometimes.

An oldie, but goodie (Bradley, in this case):

Old 1 week ago
  #11078
Lives for gear
 
d33psp33d's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
THE English dictionary?! There's only one, now?!


An oldie, but goodie (Bradley, in this case):

lmao, brightened my day, thanks!
Old 1 week ago
  #11079
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by d33psp33d View Post
In english there is a large inference division between pre-release, and must request on some random forum. Go to any software download page...
The beta is very clearly explained on the main quantum support page/FAQ:

https://support.waldorfmusic.com/products/Quantum

Quote:
When will the 2.0 version of Quantum OS be released?
OS 2.0 is still in the beta phase. Currently we don't have a release date available yet.

If you want to become a part of the beta test program, please leave us a message using the support form at the end of this page.
That's exactly what I did, filled in the "contact support" form and I was added to the beta at the next release.
Old 1 week ago
  #11080
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
no, you said pretty much the exact opposite:
Then you misunderstood what I was saying. There is a difference between testing existing features and adding new features. When you add new features you introduce new bugs. Then you have to restart testing again.
In the beta test stage you can fix bugs and then release the software. Then after that release, users can suggest new features and you can add those for the next version.
Old 1 week ago
  #11081
Gear Maniac
The betas I've been involved with all pretty much ran the same: during the beta cycle, bugs in the official release were addressed and new features were added up until the "release candidate" stage, which is where the features for the upcoming release were solidified and the focus was on catching any remaining bugs of any description.

The goal being to release an update that fixes old bugs and includes new features with as few bugs as possible.
Old 1 week ago
  #11082
Gear Addict
I don't believe release candidates are strictly necessary. But a release candidate typically means "We think all the bugs have been fixed and this is exactly what we plan to release. Unless there any last-minute showstopper bugs found, we will release this."
A release candidate doesn't mean "It's likely there are still some bug in this. Please look for them." Otherwise it would not be a release candidate.
If companies did it the way you say, then I'd say they are inefficient.
Old 1 week ago
  #11083
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by minorguy View Post
A release candidate doesn't mean "It's likely there are still some bug in this. Please look for them." Otherwise it would not be a release candidate.
Yes, that's why I didn't say that - although I did assume you would appreciate that there is a tapering off of both new features being added and bugs being found as it heads towards the final stages, whether that be called release candidate or not.

So as not to lose sight of it, the point I was making is that betas usually (in my experience) combine both bug fixes and new features during the same beta testing cycle.
Old 1 week ago
  #11084
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
there is your guys idea of a Beta and there is Rolfs .. guess which one is applicable in this particular case

In all 8 stages of 2.0 beta new features were added and bugs were eliminated.
Old 1 week ago
  #11085
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
there is your guys idea of a Beta and there is Rolfs .. guess which one is applicable in this particular case

In all 8 stages of 2.0 beta new features were added and bugs were eliminated.
the pedant in me won't let this go: what were the new features in 2.0.0 beta 6?
Old 1 week ago
  #11086
Lives for gear
 

Rolf has in the process kept the code very stable. You can (without Waldorf's promise, of course) consider any of the betas "complete" if you like. I just see them as new features, some work in progress and bugfixes along the way. Each one is an improvement over what's come before, so far, without any major losses or serious introduction of new bugs.

Rolf sounds like he and Waldorf are using some pretty cutting-edge dev and testing techniques as well, so I am not worried.
Old 1 week ago
  #11087
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 

Whatever it’s called, the process has been great! Best I’ve seen with a hardware synth.

The amount of additions and improvements since I first received the Quantum is exceptional and Rolf listens to user requests in such a direct manner.

Each time a beta arrives I install it and then the Quantum is better than it was previously and I get back to work.

IMO, couldn’t be better!!
Old 1 week ago
  #11088
Lives for gear
 

Totally agreed.
Old 1 week ago
  #11089
Quote:
Originally Posted by studio460 View Post
Any chance [Don Solaris' patch-bank] is out by December 25th?
Oh, so I gather that Don's new patch library will be included in the v2.0 release?

Quote:
Originally Posted by draig View Post
Whatever it’s called, the process has been great! . . . Each time a beta arrives I install it and then the Quantum is better than it was previously and I get back to work . . .
I can't imagine any better ongoing OS improvement process by any other synth manufacturer. Rolf's direct involvement here in gathering user feedback and user requests is unparalleled in the industry and should be universally commended. Also, the beta releases have been incredibly stable. New features and continuous development and improvement of the firmware on a near-monthly basis leaves little room for complaint and warrants much deserved praise. All hail, Rolf and team Waldorf!
Old 1 week ago
  #11090
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
In all 8 stages of 2.0 beta new features were added and bugs were eliminated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Rolf has in the process kept the code very stable.
If the code is so stable, why isn't it officially released? And there's not even any projected release date?

I don't have a dog in this race. I don't own a Quantum so it doesn't matter to me so much. All I was saying was as an observer following the thread it's odd that it's a perpetual beta. I think you're all happy because you got what you want. But what about people who don't like to take a chance on beta versions and are waiting for the official release? What happens if something goes wrong and your presets get deleted? (Admittedly that's not likely.) Too bad. It's a beta. You can't complain. How many signed up for beta, not to do the real work of testing, but to get an advance copy because you didn't want to wait for the release? Why doesn't Waldorf just finally release 2.0 and then add more new features in version 2.1? Why be in continuous development and continuous beta? Just odd, that's all I'm saying.
Old 1 week ago
  #11091
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minorguy View Post
If the code is so stable, why isn't it officially released? And there's not even any projected release date?

I don't have a dog in this race. I don't own a Quantum so it doesn't matter to me so much.
So why keep chiming in? Just creates noise amongst those of us who actually own one and are trying to make the best of whatever version we are working with through the forum. Pretty frustrating to have to dig through endless pages of meaningless back and forth when you're trying to find an actual useful technical detail/file someone uploaded, etc.
Old 1 week ago
  #11092
Lives for gear
 
draig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minorguy View Post
If the code is so stable, why isn't it officially released? And there's not even any projected release date?

I don't have a dog in this race. I don't own a Quantum so it doesn't matter to me so much. All I was saying was as an observer following the thread it's odd that it's a perpetual beta. I think you're all happy because you got what you want. But what about people who don't like to take a chance on beta versions and are waiting for the official release? What happens if something goes wrong and your presets get deleted? (Admittedly that's not likely.) Too bad. It's a beta. You can't complain. How many signed up for beta, not to do the real work of testing, but to get an advance copy because you didn't want to wait for the release? Why doesn't Waldorf just finally release 2.0 and then add more new features in version 2.1? Why be in continuous development and continuous beta? Just odd, that's all I'm saying.
As someone who actually has a Quantum and has been installing the betas from the start, it’s the best experience I’ve ever had with a hardware synth.

Rolf is doing an amazing job. As far as I’m concerned, he can do it however he wants cause it’s working great for me.

What you find odd, I find refreshing!!
Old 1 week ago
  #11093
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by minorguy View Post
If the code is so stable, why isn't it officially released? And there's not even any projected release date?
2.0 is clearly not just an OS update. It also seem to contain new wavetables, new sounds and patches. A manual has to be expanded and adapted. Things that only can be worked on when the firmware is kind of done.

There never was an unstable code in any of the betas since 1.1 .. it was very nice of Waldorf to let everyone who wanted to participate take part of the new features the moment they were ready.
Old 1 week ago
  #11094
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by minorguy View Post
How many signed up for beta, not to do the real work of testing, but to get an advance copy because you didn't want to wait for the release? Why doesn't Waldorf just finally release 2.0 and then add more new features in version 2.1? Why be in continuous development and continuous beta? Just odd, that's all I'm saying.
you're right - it is odd to have so many new features added. As a quantum owner, it's hard to see that as a bad thing.

Part of the issue is that the beta is readily available and widely talked about - and so people who are beta-averse want the features but don't want to run the perceived risk.

The last official release was 1.3.0 in March 2019 (I believe). It's not remotely unusual for it to take longer than the 8 months we're currently at between synth firmware updates, especially ones with tons of new features.

Waldorf are letting owners use new features as early as possible and most beta participants seem to be perfectly happy with the quality of the code they are receiving.
Old 1 week ago
  #11095
Pip
Lives for gear
 
Pip's Avatar
Whatever you call the process, I for one, thinks it’s fantastic that the already wonderful Quantum is going to be even better.
Old 1 week ago
  #11096
Gear Maniac
 
markodarko's Avatar
 

I’m 90% in at this moment in time (even though v2.0 is not “official”) because of everyone’s good experiences with using the beta.

One question though... what does it mean that this will be the “last free update”?

That’s a bit concerning. If I buy a Quantum now (for not an insignificant amount of money) and go on the beta list, then when v2.0 is released I’ll get it for free, but for v3.0 I’ll need to pay? Is that right?
Old 1 week ago
  #11097
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunRa777 View Post
I'm not happy at all. I hate the sound and I think the patches are the main reason. They're really awful. They aren't musical at all. When I got the Quantum I thought I was going to get a pad making monster like the old' Q or Microwave or Wave. Instead, the starting patches are a bunch of overwrought staticky nonsense (especially the Richard Devine patches).

This has left me with a conundrum. Do I sell it and go backwards to the Q or Microwave XT? Or, do I find some serious resources on programming wavetable pad sounds and harnessing the granular enginer to try to figure it all out myself. Again, I'm totally down to do that, but typically I work by reverse engineering the patches onboard and tinkering. At this point, it's just not possible with the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE factory patches. Where's Don Solaris to save us? My Blofeld sounds better than my Quantum. That's a damn shame.

/end rant
I'll give you five hunge, you pay shipping, unburden yourself, set yourself free.
oh btw
ill sell you my Q for 1500.
Old 1 week ago
  #11098
Gear Maniac
 
markodarko's Avatar
 

Another question (sorry)... can the LED lights under the knobs be turned off? Just been watching demos on YouTube and the Sweetwater demo looks like a Christmas tree!

If not turned off, can they be dimmed? By... you know... loads?
Old 1 week ago
  #11099
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
I’m 90% in at this moment in time (even though v2.0 is not “official”) because of everyone’s good experiences with using the beta.

One question though... what does it mean that this will be the “last free update”?

That’s a bit concerning. If I buy a Quantum now (for not an insignificant amount of money) and go on the beta list, then when v2.0 is released I’ll get it for free, but for v3.0 I’ll need to pay? Is that right?
That was a mistranslation of the German by some site, latest, not last.

You can not only dim the lights, but change their colors. It’s totally flexible. The color is useful for identifying associated features, Roland uses this in their synths and it’s a great idea.

I would warn you, though, friend, the Quantum is a big commitment of both money and time. Make sure you’re comfortable with that before hitting the buy button.
Old 1 week ago
  #11100
Gear Maniac
 
markodarko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
That was a mistranslation of the German by some site, latest, not last.

You can not only dim the lights, but change their colors. It’s totally flexible. The color is useful for identifying associated features, Roland uses this in their synths and it’s a great idea.

I would warn you, though, friend, the Quantum is a big commitment of both money and time. Make sure you’re comfortable with that before hitting the buy button.
Thanks, RT.

Yes, I appreciate the commitment of time (more than money. Not that I’m loaded, but my studio time is limited) which is why I want to make sure this is “right” for me.

I think it is, but I’ve just stumbled across a video which has put me off considerably:



I do believe that screen would drive me around the bend if that middle encoder couldn’t be used to traverse lists and select values. Is this something that has been implemented in the beta?
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